Ok, I get that it's either the listed flow (20x20) or the .10 over the spacing area... But what I want to know is what do I use for the "spacing area"? Do I use the 20 x20 because my heads are 10 feet off of walls (s x l) or can I use the square footage of the room (16 x16) at 256 sq. ft.? And yup, this is the head that drives the calc, the other three heads queue up to this one at even smaller head spacings.
Thanks! Carrol ________________________________ From: Sprinkler Academy - C Bilbo <[email protected]> To: FORUM <[email protected]> Sent: Fri, October 29, 2010 6:46:06 PM Subject: RE: Residential "Room Design Method"? Ok.... to back-up Ron.... While the "Most Remote Area" is fine once you understand what it is that we intend..... The "Most Demanding Area" is the most accurate description, but.... NFPA 13 refers to the "hydraulically most demanding area", the "design area", the "remote area", "most remote sprinkler" It's worth pointing out what we mean, but once we understand..... let's drop the semantics. As for residential demand and calculatons: Sprinklers should flow: a. .10gpm/sq ft over the spacing area (small room rule can help here) OR, b. The listed flow for the residential sprinkler (if it is more demanding.....as opposed to remote) OR, c. Whatever the manufacturer says. d. Whichever is greater. Did I mention that you should listen to Ron? (choose D.) Sincerely, Some guy named Cecil (not known for being politically correct... just ask the Patriots' Cheerleaders) > Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 17:27:20 -0700 > Subject: Re: Residential "Room Design Method"? > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > > Design area(s) guys. Remote implies furthest from riser and we all > know that that is not always correct. Unfortunately the kids don't > know that and they get the wrong idea into their impressionable little > heads when we say remote. Trust me. I have to fight this all the time. > No matter how often I try to tell them the right stuff and then they > hear remote somewhere and all my good work is for naught. Cecil can > probably get my back on this. > > On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 5:17 PM, A.P.Silva <[email protected]> wrote: > > Would "hydraulically most remote" be more politically correct? > > > > Tony > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman > > Sent: October 29, 2010 6:02 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: Residential "Room Design Method"? > > > > Jamie, > > > > Might I suggest changing your habit of saying "remote" area with the more > > proper and less confusing term "design" area. Remote more properly refers to > > the furthest distance from a DPV for the inspector's test connection. Back > > in the olden days, when most sprinklers went into manufacturing and > > warehousing facilities, big, open buildings with tree systems and typically > > uniform branch lines, the "remote" area and the "design" area typically were > > the same, but that doesn't always hold true these days. Additionally, until > > you're sure there is only one then "design area(s)" is even more apropos. > > Don't get me wrong. I do the same thing on occasion. Old habits are hard to > > break, but I try to be cognitive of the fact that every time I use "remote" > > I'm inferring something I really don't mean. > > > > On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 4:46 PM, Jamie.seidl <[email protected]> wrote: > >> You need to calculate the most hydraulically remote 4 heads. This is > > typically a loaded branch line that supplies a bedroom on the end of the > > line. For instance (20x20 * (400 sqft) @ .10 gpm = 40 gpm). This end head > > pressure will act on the rest of the heads on the BL, closets, bathroom, > > hallway so your total demand on a BL can be upwards of 160 gpm, depending on > > configuration of the unit. Keep in mind, you can mix K factors in > > residential occupancies to balance the hydraulics and minimize over > > discharge. > >> > >> Jamie > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> On Oct 29, 2010, at 7:24 PM, Carrol Glimstad <[email protected]> > > wrote: > >> > >>> I'm designing a residential project using res. heads (LFII) and > >>> designing to full NFPA 13. When I calc my four heads using the > >>> "design area", I am wondering if I can use the room design method to > >>> determine my sprinkler demand? For instance, I have a room that > >>> measures 16' X 16', (256 sq. ft.) but the head is actually located 10 > >>> feet off of the 2 adjacent far walls. If using the flow rates from > >>> the chart I know that I need to flow 20 gpm from that head based on my > > maximum 20' x 20' spacing. But If I'm using the .10 over the "design area" > >>> can I just use the demand of 25.6 gpm for that head (16' x 16' sq. > >>> ft.) versus the 40 gpm based on 20' x 20'? I understand then I would > >>> then base my system requirements on the more demanding of the two > >>> methods. I can flow all four heads at a 20 gpm no problem, but the 40 > > gpm from just one head.....ouch! > >>> I haven't done residential in a looooong time, so thought I'd check > >>> for the heck of it and I'm pretty sure I'll find instead that I'm full of > > it! > >>> Thanks in advance! > >>> > >>> Carrol Glimstad > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >>> > >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >>> > >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email > >>> to:[email protected] > >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >> > >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >> > >> To Unsubscribe, send an email > >> to:[email protected] > >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Ron Greenman > > Instructor > > Fire Protection Engineering Technology > > Bates Technical College > > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > > > [email protected] > > > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > > > 253.680.7346 > > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > > > Member: > > AFSA, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, NFSA, AFAA, ASEE, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC > > > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, > > essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering Technology > Bates Technical College > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > [email protected] > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > 253.680.7346 > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > Member: > AFSA, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, NFSA, AFAA, ASEE, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis > Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
