The actual square footage at 0.01 for the A/D calc and the 20x20 for the listed residential head calc, and then the greater of the two for the actual demand.
On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 8:08 AM, Carrol Glimstad <[email protected]> wrote: > Ok, > > I get that it's either the listed flow (20x20) or the .10 over the spacing > area... But what I want to know is what do I use for the "spacing area"? Do I > use the 20 x20 because my heads are 10 feet off of walls (s x l) or can I use > the square footage of the room (16 x16) at 256 sq. ft.? And yup, this is the > head that drives the calc, the other three heads queue up to this one at even > smaller head spacings. > > Thanks! > Carrol > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Sprinkler Academy - C Bilbo <[email protected]> > To: FORUM <[email protected]> > Sent: Fri, October 29, 2010 6:46:06 PM > Subject: RE: Residential "Room Design Method"? > > > Ok.... to back-up Ron.... > > While the "Most Remote Area" is fine once you understand what it is that we > intend..... > > The "Most Demanding Area" is the most accurate description, but.... > > NFPA 13 refers to the "hydraulically most demanding area", the "design area", > the "remote area", "most remote sprinkler" > > It's worth pointing out what we mean, but once we understand..... let's drop > the > semantics. > > > As for residential demand and calculatons: > > Sprinklers should flow: > a. .10gpm/sq ft over the spacing area (small room rule can help here) OR, > b. The listed flow for the residential sprinkler (if it is more > demanding.....as opposed to remote) OR, > c. Whatever the manufacturer says. > > d. Whichever is greater. > > Did I mention that you should listen to Ron? (choose D.) > > Sincerely, > > Some guy named Cecil > (not known for being politically correct... just ask the Patriots' > Cheerleaders) > >> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 17:27:20 -0700 >> Subject: Re: Residential "Room Design Method"? >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> >> Design area(s) guys. Remote implies furthest from riser and we all >> know that that is not always correct. Unfortunately the kids don't >> know that and they get the wrong idea into their impressionable little >> heads when we say remote. Trust me. I have to fight this all the time. >> No matter how often I try to tell them the right stuff and then they >> hear remote somewhere and all my good work is for naught. Cecil can >> probably get my back on this. >> >> On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 5:17 PM, A.P.Silva <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Would "hydraulically most remote" be more politically correct? >> > >> > Tony >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: [email protected] >> > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman >> > Sent: October 29, 2010 6:02 PM >> > To: [email protected] >> > Subject: Re: Residential "Room Design Method"? >> > >> > Jamie, >> > >> > Might I suggest changing your habit of saying "remote" area with the more >> > proper and less confusing term "design" area. Remote more properly refers >> > to >> > the furthest distance from a DPV for the inspector's test connection. Back >> > in the olden days, when most sprinklers went into manufacturing and >> > warehousing facilities, big, open buildings with tree systems and typically >> > uniform branch lines, the "remote" area and the "design" area typically >> > were >> > the same, but that doesn't always hold true these days. Additionally, until >> > you're sure there is only one then "design area(s)" is even more apropos. >> > Don't get me wrong. I do the same thing on occasion. Old habits are hard >> > to >> > break, but I try to be cognitive of the fact that every time I use "remote" >> > I'm inferring something I really don't mean. >> > >> > On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 4:46 PM, Jamie.seidl <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> You need to calculate the most hydraulically remote 4 heads. This is >> > typically a loaded branch line that supplies a bedroom on the end of the >> > line. For instance (20x20 * (400 sqft) @ .10 gpm = 40 gpm). This end head >> > pressure will act on the rest of the heads on the BL, closets, bathroom, >> > hallway so your total demand on a BL can be upwards of 160 gpm, depending >> > on >> > configuration of the unit. Keep in mind, you can mix K factors in >> > residential occupancies to balance the hydraulics and minimize over >> > discharge. >> >> >> >> Jamie >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >> On Oct 29, 2010, at 7:24 PM, Carrol Glimstad <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >>> I'm designing a residential project using res. heads (LFII) and >> >>> designing to full NFPA 13. When I calc my four heads using the >> >>> "design area", I am wondering if I can use the room design method to >> >>> determine my sprinkler demand? For instance, I have a room that >> >>> measures 16' X 16', (256 sq. ft.) but the head is actually located 10 >> >>> feet off of the 2 adjacent far walls. If using the flow rates from >> >>> the chart I know that I need to flow 20 gpm from that head based on my >> > maximum 20' x 20' spacing. But If I'm using the .10 over the "design area" >> >>> can I just use the demand of 25.6 gpm for that head (16' x 16' sq. >> >>> ft.) versus the 40 gpm based on 20' x 20'? I understand then I would >> >>> then base my system requirements on the more demanding of the two >> >>> methods. I can flow all four heads at a 20 gpm no problem, but the 40 >> > gpm from just one head.....ouch! >> >>> I haven't done residential in a looooong time, so thought I'd check >> >>> for the heck of it and I'm pretty sure I'll find instead that I'm full of >> > it! >> >>> Thanks in advance! >> >>> >> >>> Carrol Glimstad >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >>> [email protected] >> >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >>> >> >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >>> >> >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email >> >>> to:[email protected] >> >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email >> >> to:[email protected] >> >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Ron Greenman >> > Instructor >> > Fire Protection Engineering Technology >> > Bates Technical College >> > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. >> > Tacoma, WA 98405 >> > >> > [email protected] >> > >> > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ >> > >> > 253.680.7346 >> > 253.576.9700 (cell) >> > >> > Member: >> > AFSA, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, NFSA, AFAA, ASEE, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC >> > >> > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, >> > essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Sprinklerforum mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> > >> > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Sprinklerforum mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> > >> > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Ron Greenman >> Instructor >> Fire Protection Engineering Technology >> Bates Technical College >> 1101 So. Yakima Ave. >> Tacoma, WA 98405 >> >> [email protected] >> >> http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ >> >> 253.680.7346 >> 253.576.9700 (cell) >> >> Member: >> AFSA, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, NFSA, AFAA, ASEE, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC >> >> They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis >> Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: AFSA, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, NFSA, AFAA, ASEE, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
