Of course the Annex is not the body as the TC already knows, and of course
this is a pretty minor point, but fixing this, even as a change to the
Annex, is not that complex.  And why, if this is how the TC rationalizes
their opinion, would they address this topic in relation to location of the
piping with respect to the foundation?   I generally use the "one joint"
rule which would limit the amount of underground piping to less than one
length and thereby limiting the height of the flange above the floor (just
as is shown in A.10.6.5), but I have seen multiple pieces of ductile inside
as well.

Bill Brooks

William N. Brooks, P.E.
Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc.
372 Wilett Drive
Severna Park, MD 21146-1904
410-544-3620
410-544-3032 FAX
412-400-6528 Cell


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Roland
Huggins
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 4:47 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Transition from Outside to Inside

I agree with Mark. Some folks (including the TC at the ROP meeting)  
seem to think it is acceptable based on 13:A.10.6.5 showing part of  
the underground pipe extending above the floor.  They seem to have  
ignored that the Figure is ductile so doesn't address plastic and seem  
to have forgotten that the listing for underground plastic pipe  
applies to it being underground.  As soon as it is exposed (whether in  
a trench or as a transition piece above the floor) it has to be  
acceptable as an above ground pipe. Needless to say, this issue will  
be addressed again at the ROC meeting.

Roland

On Jul 12, 2011, at 7:16 AM, Mark Sornsin wrote:

> Bill - I'm going to go on a limb a bit and suggest there is no  
> maximum height.
>
> There's underground pipe (CH. 10), above-ground pipe (CH. 6) and the  
> transition piece (23.1.6.1.1). It is implied that underground pipe  
> is only underground. An aggressive AHJ or EOR may argue that the  
> flange must be located at the floor level - so no underground pipe  
> is above-ground and vice versa. I would suggest that it really only  
> matters when dealing with plastic underground transitioning to above- 
> ground pipe. No plastic pipe should be allowed above ground, so the  
> transition should start below grade. I always spec' ductile iron  
> into the building. This meets the intent of 23.1.6.1.1 as a  
> transition.  We normally shoot for the transition to the above- 
> ground pipe to occur at 6 to 12 inches above the floor, but there is  
> nothing in 13 that mandates any particular height.
>
> Mark A. Sornsin, PE| Fire Protection Engineer
> Ulteig Engineers, Inc.| Fargo, ND
> [email protected]
>
>

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