New Jersey is unique, no self service...fire extinguishers, emergency shutoffs, shear valves and breakaway hoses, no fixed system requirements. However my observations in other parts of the country has been dry chemical fixed systems.
John Drucker Assistant Construction Official Fire Protection Subcode Official [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Cell/Text 732-904-6823 Duane Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: >From NFPA 30A 6.3.9 Where liquid is supplied to the dispensing device under pressure, a listed, rigidly anchored emergency shutoff valve incorporating a fusible link or other thermally actuated device, designed to close automatically in the event of severe impact or fire exposure, shall be installed in the supply line at the base of each individual island-type dispenser or at the inlet of each overhead dispensing device. The emergency shutoff valve shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions. The emergency shutoff valve shall not incorporate a slip-joint feature. 7.3.5 Fixed Fire Protection. 7.3.5.1* For an unattended, self-serve, motor fuel dispensing facility, additional fire protection shall be provided where required by the authority having jurisdiction. 7.3.5.2 Where required, an automatic fire suppression system shall be installed in accordance with the appropriate NFPA standard, manufacturer's instructions, and the listing requirements of the systems. A.7.3.5.1 Additional fire protection considerations can include items such as fixed suppression systems, automatic fire detection, manual fire alarm stations, transmission of alarms to off-site locations, and limiting volume delivered per transaction. Duane Johnson Strickland Fire Protection Sent from my iPhone -----Original Message----- From: Duane Johnson Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2015 7:20 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Canopies Over gas Pumps How about just fire extinguishers. I have yet to personally conduct a thorough code research on the topic but I have dug into a few codes including those mentioned earlier. I haven't found anything definitive. Given there are sooo many safety precautions, automatic shutoffs, and regulations instilled with the transfer of the fuel, this may be a case where IF there is an issue after ALL the precautions fail, let the trained emergency personnel take care of it. I have yet to see any motor fuel dispensing facilities be equipped with any fire protection other than extinguishers. There must be a code t back this up. They do appear to have sensors/detectors however. I am not talking about fuel farms...that is something different. Duane Johnson Strickland Fire Protection Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 8, 2015, at 5:11 PM, Steve Leyton <[email protected]> wrote: > > EXACTLY. None of us has ever seen a gas station fire in all likelihood > because the equipment is equipped with so many fail-safety devices and so > long as idiots aren't smoking or lighting incense as they refuel, it's very > low risk, empirically speaking. If there's a fire on the ground, how well > does a canopy trap heat? With no walls, the horizontal movement of > byproducts is going to be fairly high-velocity, no? Unless you have some > fire modeling or test data in hand, your and my guesses are the best we're > going to have with regard to the chances of sprinklers skipping or even > operating at all. The AHJ is probably requiring sprinklers for the reason > you state - so he/she can sleep at night, so give them sprinklers. > > As to the use of foam by responders, I think everyone would agree that > there's a significant difference in the metrics of programming operations in > a muni fire department than in the cost-benefit analysis of a fixed foam > extinguishing system and the impact it would have on the design of the > protected premises. Water has been successfully fire tested in flammable > liquids fires, from mist to ESFR. So if the AHJ wants sprinklers, give them > "sprinklers". > > SL > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 2:04 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Canopies Over gas Pumps > > Wow, really? What is that stuff the guys in the red trucks spray on liquid > fuel spills and over car fires? > > Hate to disagree but OH I is even questionable for a parking garage > regardless of what NPFA says and for a gas station well it's just silly. > I've never seen a little gas station fire. > > But at the end of the day you do what allows you to sleep at night. > > Craig L. Prahl > Fire Protection Group Lead/SME > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > Spartanburg, SC 29303 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > CH2MHILL Extension 74102 > [email protected] > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Steve Leyton > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 4:51 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Canopies Over gas Pumps > > Please, stop. This is NOT flammable liquids storage. Foam and wind effect > and all this other stuff is Henny-Penny-the-sky-is-falling distraction > (IMHO). 7.3.5.2 of 30A states, " Where required, an automatic fire > suppression system shall be installed in accordance with the appropriate NFPA > standard, manufacturer's instructions, and the listing requirements of the > systems. Obviously, NFPA 13 doesn't have a prescriptive for fuel island > canopies, so let's use some common sense. The fuel is stored in UG tanks > away from the islands and retail store or cashiers hut. NFPA 30 doesn't > apply as this isn't storage, but Chapter 18 states that when a hose is used > in the transfer of F/C liquids as part of an "incidental operation", it shall > be equipped with a self-closing valve. That's what a automotive fuel hose > does - it's a dead man that kicks off from several triggers including back > pressure and impact. So the movie scene of a guy having a heart attack and > squirting a steady stream of fuel into the air as a crow drops a burning > cigarette butt into the pool is ... far-fetched. At most, we can reasonable > expect that there could be a quart of gasoline on the ground if there's an > accident, so we would be protecting for that and the cars at the island that > are ostensibly full or nearly full of fuel. Just like in an OH 1 parking > garage. > > OH 2 if it's a month ending in Y ... my 3ยข. > > SL > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 10:25 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Canopies Over gas Pumps > > This is outside the purview of NFPA 13. > > You're dealing with flammable and combustible liquids, hydrocarbons on which > water alone will have limited affect. > > For fuel loading/unloading stations it is common to employ foam-water deluge > for the area below the canopy. > > Also an option is dry chemical. Pyrochem has a system called > ATTENDANT II (distributed by Tyco) > > The HAJ would have to approve either one but more tend to lean towards a > sprinklered solution than a one-shot gaseous system. A very windy day could > totally render a gaseous extinguishing system useless. > > For design you do need to consider wind effect on your system discharge. > Don't get swayed into the minimum .16 gpm/sf permitted on foam-water systems. > You can have coverage issues again due to wind influences. > > NFPA 30, NFPA 30A, NFPA 16 and NFPA 2001 are good places to start. > > Good luck and have fun! > > Craig L. Prahl > Fire Protection Group Lead/SME > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > Spartanburg, SC 29303 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > CH2MHILL Extension 74102 > [email protected] > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > James Crawford > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 1:04 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Canopies Over gads Pumps > > Looking for some direction on the protection of a Gas Service station canopy > over the gas pumps. > > > > We have an AHJ that want the canopy protected, but I can't find anything that > outlines the protection requirements for this area. My first thought is Extra > Hazard group 1. > > > > Can someone point me in the right direction > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > James Crawford > > Phaser Fire Protection Ltd. > > Phone 604-888-0318 > > Fax 604-888-4732 > > Cel 604-790-0938 > > Email [email protected] > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
