Hello to everyone, addressing the same matter in the Auditory mailing list, David McAlpine suggested to look at perceptual training:
https://www.nature.com/articles/nn0998_417 While it is true that people with significant hearing loss above 8kHz can still perceive elevation, it is likely that this hearing loss (e.g. age-related sensorineural) appeared gradually, and the person had time to adapt and re-map their spatial hearing cues. As mentioned by others already, these are not just the peaks and notches typical of an HRTF, but also the reflections coming from the surrounding space. The real issue with hearing training, specifically HRTF accommodation (i.e. learning how to localise sound sources with an HRTF which is not your own, which could be extended to learning how to localise sound sources using an altered HRTF, e.g. low-passed at 8kHz), is that it takes some time, it's not really immediate, so if the aim is to just release some spatialised audio online or through other channels for the general public, it might be difficult to implement that. But it might be interesting to try! Together with Brian FG Katz in Paris we've done some work looking at short- and long-term HRTF accommodation: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-37873-0 and also at VR-based localisation training https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-54811-w We'll be happy to share with you our Unity (currently used with the Oculus Quest 2) spatial hearing training application, so that you can try to low-pass the output at 8kHz, and see whether it could work. Best Lorenzo -- Dr Lorenzo Picinali Reader in Audio Experience Design<https://www.axdesign.co.uk/> Dyson School of Design Engineering Imperial College London Dyson Building Imperial College Road South Kensington, SW7 2DB, London E: l.picin...@imperial.ac.uk http://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/l.picinali https://www.axdesign.co.uk/ ________________________________ From: Sursound <sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Fons Adriaensen <f...@linuxaudio.org> Sent: 12 August 2022 08:48 To: sursound@music.vt.edu <sursound@music.vt.edu> Subject: Re: [Sursound] On 3D audio rendering for signals with the low sampling frequency ******************* This email originates from outside Imperial. Do not click on links and attachments unless you recognise the sender. If you trust the sender, add them to your safe senders list https://spam.ic.ac.uk/SpamConsole/Senders.aspx to disable email stamping for this address. ******************* On Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 06:40:28PM +0800, Junfeng Li wrote: > Do the early reflections contribute to elevation perception ? Well, something which is probably not related to HRTF does. Older people often have hearing limited to 8 kHz or even less, but may still be able to perceive elevation in some way. Early reflections (in a acoustically familiar environment) may play a role. Also of course expectations - remember that human perception is not objective, it is mostly based on a mental reconstruction of a scene. We expect certain sounds to come from above. Even cultural elements may play a role in how certain sounds are perceived. This is very well known in visual perception - for example people who have never lived in a world in which straight lines and right angles are everywhere are not sensitive to some visual illusions based on perspective. But what really puzzles me [1] is why a system that for whatever reason is limited to an 8 kHz bandwidth is expected to provide full 3D audio. It's just not realistic. You can't do a rock concert with a one Watt amplifier. You can't transport a grand piano on a bicycle. [1] Or not. I've known my share of managers who believe that business logic or ideology can bend the laws of physics or mathematics... Ciao, -- FA _______________________________________________ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20220812/f72781be/attachment.htm> _______________________________________________ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
