Does it matter what I as a swede think?
If the tourists/officials visiting speaking Swiss High German(among each
other) choose to call this city that its fine by me. If the city ever
translate their homepage to de-ch I suppose they would call it the same.
Names are (in my view) socially constructed and constantly agreed upon
by the users of the language. I don't speak Swiss High German so I'm not
really in a position to judge what to call this city in that language.
IMO OSM is not a suitable place for speakers of Swiss High Germanto
argue what to call the city for reasons laid out here
http://blog.imagico.de/verifiability-and-the-wikipediarization-of-openstreetmap/.
This is very different from a street name that appears on a sign IMO,
which is verifiable and can be seen by anyone in the same spot.
pangoSE
On 2020-03-27 10:47, Simon Poole wrote:
Just using the entry for your place, do you really think that an entry
like say
Swiss High GermanHärnösand
makes sense? (Swiss High German is de-CH).
Simon
Am 27.03.2020 um 10:07 schrieb pang...@riseup.net:
Hi Simon.
Do you have a link? The Municipality I live in has sensible names in
WD https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3240427
Does it matter to us in OSM if it "has the name"? I'm thinking that
we outsource all the naming to WD to deal with and fight over.
In OSM we could instead concentrate on e.g. what language codes to
display on osm.org e.g. name_osm=sv for a city with dominant Swedish
population and name_osm=se for a town/city where most are Sami.
In the case of double naming on the ground we could have something
like: name_osm= code1 / code2
Where code1 is the e.g. the Welsh and code2 is the English name.
The idea in these cases is the we get rid of all other name tags that
can be stored and curated better in WD.
On March 25, 2020 10:48:45 PM GMT+01:00, Simon Poole <si...@poole.ch>
wrote:
Note that lots of the wikidata names are nonsense and are simply
derived from the wikipedia page name (which a wp page has to
have, but it doesn't imply that the object actually has a name in
the language of the wikipedia you are looking at). For example
the municipality I live in has a German and a Swiss-German name,
it -doesn't- have names in any of the other 31 languages that are
listed.
Simon
Am 25.03.2020 um 11:00 schrieb pang...@riseup.net:
Honestly I don't think it makes sense for OSM to have names at
all on objects which has a Wikidata reference. We are just too
small a community to keep this updated and it has little value
to duplicate to the efforts made by others.
If any names I suggest we have a bot autoupdating all name tags
according to the values in Wikidata. If there is no Wikidata
item it should be found/created.
It really is'nt hard to populate a map with geographical data
from OSM and query the names the user wants to see from WD.
This offloads a huge burden as I see it.
All our tools that currently invites our users to include a name
could be adapted so that the user is aware that OSM is about
geodata and names are for WD and best stored/updated there.
If we allow a name to be set only when no qid we avoid the bulk
of these problems.
When a qid is set a bot could remove all names for languages
already present in WD.
On March 25, 2020 10:45:03 AM GMT+01:00, Andrew Hain
<andrewhain...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
Why on earth would we not (excluding exceptional copyright
issues) want to have lots of different name:XX tags?
--
Andrew
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Frederik Ramm <frede...@remote.org>
*Sent:* 25 March 2020 09:26
*To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
<tagging@openstreetmap.org>
*Subject:* [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for
name:xx tags?
Hi,
the "name:xx" tags are something of an exception in OSM
because while we
defer to "local knowledge" as the highest-ranking source
normally, this
is not being done for name:xx tags. It is possible for no
single citizen
of the city of Karlsruhe to know its Russian name, but still
a Russian
name could exist. Who is the highest-ranking source for that?
My guess is that about 5% of name:xx tags in OSM actually
represent a
unique name in its own right; all others are either copies
of the name
tag ("this city does not have its own name in language XX
but I want
every city to have a name:xx tag so I'll just copy the name
tag"), or
transliterations (or, worst case, even literal translations).
A while ago we had a longer discussion about Esperanto
names; in that
discussion, it was questioned whether Esperanto could be in
the name tag
but nobody disputed that adding name:eo tags is ok, even though
Esperanto is an invented (or "constructed") language.
Yesterday someone added a few dozen Klingon names to
countries in OSM. I
have reverted that because of a copyright issue, but I think
we also
need to discuss which languages we want to accept for
name:xx tags.
In my opinion, a name:xx tag should only be added if you can
demonstrate
that people natively speaking the living language xx are
actually using
this name for this entity. I think we have a very unhealthy
inflation of
names in OSM that are added by "single-purpose mappers" -
they come in,
stick a name:my-favourite-language tag onto everything, and
go away
again. Nobody knows if these names are even correct, and
nobody cares
for their maintenance. The country North Macedonia changed
its name
almost one year ago, yet roughly half of its ~ 170 name tags
are still
what they were before this change. Nobody cares; these names
suggest a
data richness that is not backed up by an actual living
community that
cares for them.
What are your opinions on which languages should be accepted
in name
tags? What do you think about
* niche constructed languages (say, FredLang which has 2 words I
invented just now)
* popular constructed languages (Klingon, Elvish) - note
place names in
these languages will often be algorithmically derived from
the English
or local name
* "serious" constructed languages (Esperanto)
* languages that once existed but are not natively spoken
any more (Roman)
* languages that are natively spoken but their speakers do
not have
their own name for the entity in question (instead they use
the same
name the locals use, possibly transcribed into a different
alphabet)
* ...
Or if you don't have the time to think about this in detail,
just answer
the question: tlhIngan Hol - Hlja' or ghobe'?
Bye
Frederik
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