I just want to say a little bit more. The reason why people don't like to use
cracked app is that there might be some harmful code in its source, there might
be some hidden actions stealing information from users that we can't control,
besides, cracked apps usually work badly, and certainly their performance is
far less than bought ones. With cracked apps, you have to find new installation
each time new update appears and lots of apps surely take lots of time but
you'll be able to complete it right away in great comfort with real licenced
apps.
Regards!
Jimmy Vinh Nguyen (Nguyễn Thành Vinh)
Skype ID: thanhvinh94
Y! messenger: nguyenthanhvinh1992
Facebook: http://facebook.com/jimmy.vinh.nguyen94/
-----Original Message-----
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
Aman Singer
Sent: Monday, August 5, 2013 12:31 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund
Hello, David.
You write
Shareware is the only model where this is typically done. Shareware usually
comes from small start-ups which are still trying to get their names out,
and by hobbyists. Successful companies usually do not use shareware for
reasons of piracy.
Shareware programs can, and are, cracked so people can use them without
paying for them. Companies and developers which make and sell shareware do
not earn very much money from the shareware because it is so easily and
readily cracked.
I am sorry to contradict you, but the above seems to me to be inaccurate.
Most computer software products, whether from smaller or larger companies,
are available as downloadable trials. A quick search on Google brought up
the fact that Microsoft
http://www.microsoft.com/education/en-ca/resources/Pages/demos.aspx
Adobe
http://www.adobe.com/downloads.html
Norton/Symantec
http://ca.norton.com/downloads/
And Quicken/Intuit
http://quicken.intuit.com/support/help/refund/terms-and-conditions-for-excha
nging--returning-or-refunding-quicken-products/GEN83258.html
all offer trials of their products. These are large companies and, though
they may not use the word "shareware", as nobody does these days, they do
offer timed trials. I find it difficult to see the difference between these
trials and the "shareware" model. Obviously, these trials are just as
susceptible to cracking as any shareware package. Note that these are just
the first four companies that pop to mind, type in companyname trials into
google and you will probably get whatever company you want offering some or
all of their software as a timed demo. Note also that the vast majority of
hardware is offered as a trial in fact due to return policies.
You write
So, let's consider Apple App Store with such a distribution method. If you
never jailbreak your iOS device, the system will probably work decently
well, except that a good hacker may be able to open the app's shell and
tinker with its timing factor. If the app cannot receive the accurate time
from the phone, it can always believe it is still in the 24 hour free trial
time.
Actually, cracked apps are available to both jailbroken and non-jailbroken
iDevices. These are not in any way secret, sites providing cracked apps to
all devices have been reported on in the mainstream media and can be found
with Google. There is no need to purchase an app from the app store to get
any particular app. This has been possible for several years. Though what
you say as to trials may have been accurate 3-5 years ago, most companies
have realized that they gain more from trials and the exposure they give to
people than they lose to the inevitable removal of protection. Apple's
protection is already compromised. A lack of protection is not a good reason
to avoid timed trials on app store apps.
Aman
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of David Chittenden
Sent: Monday, August 5, 2013 12:23 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund
Hello,
You completely missed my point about implementation of such a system, not to
mention the extreme complexities involved in coding it. Also, You completely
glossed over the fact that Shareware is the only model where this is
typically done. Shareware usually comes from small start-ups which are still
trying to get their names out, and by hobbyists. Successful companies
usually do not use shareware for reasons of piracy.
Shareware programs can, and are, cracked so people can use them without
paying for them. Companies and developers which make and sell shareware do
not earn very much money from the shareware because it is so easily and
readily cracked.
So, let's consider Apple App Store with such a distribution method. If you
never jailbreak your iOS device, the system will probably work decently
well, except that a good hacker may be able to open the app's shell and
tinker with its timing factor. If the app cannot receive the accurate time
from the phone, it can always believe it is still in the 24 hour free trial
time. I knew a person back in the US who did this with all his trial
programs on his Mac. He was a low paid movie producer, but liked Adobe's
editing, so he cracked adobe video editor to use it without paying the
several hundred dollar licensing fee / purchase price.
If you jailbreak your iPhone, the jailbreak community would quickly develop
an app that would enfold any App Store app and constantly show the time/date
stamp which makes the app believe it is still in its trial phase. To do
this, no app would need to be hacked, just intercept the day/time query from
the app and send back the original day of download. This is a basic program
I could probably write with just a little bit of study.
And, before you say blind people are mostly honest and would never do such a
thing, even if true, and I would question such an assertion, we are less
than 0.5% of the population, and probably less than that of the percent of
people who use iPhones and iPhone apps. These, and other similar questions
must be answered to developers' satisfaction before developers would feel
secure in agreeing to such a scheme with significant possibility of piracy
and abuse.
In other words, our desires are not the only factors that need to be
considered.
David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone
On 05/08/2013, at 11:33, Christopher Chaltain <chalt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think this is very analogous. When you purchase a meal, it's to
enjoy it that one dining experience. If you don't like the food then you can
complain. You may or may not get some consideration on the bill, and this
has nothing to do with blindness.
>
> When you purchase an app, it's generally to use it for a while, and not
just one time. Plenty of companies and apps have very successful business
models where you can download an application, try it for a week or a month
and then purchase it or it stops working. This is not a new concept, and as
David has said, could be implemented in the App Store with in app purchases.
>
> Finally, enjoying the taste of a meal and the dining experience has
nothing to do with sight or blindness, and is pretty trivial when compared
to the needed accessibility to use an app.
>
> On 08/04/2013 06:20 PM, Joanne Chua wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> This arguement reminds me of something along the line of...
>> lets go to the restarant, lets order some food, eat it, then decide
>> if you like the food or not to determine if you pay for the food or not.
>> Reason? well, because i'm blind, i have the rights to taste the food.
>> If it is not suiting my taste, i'll decide not too pay...
>>
>> Joanne Shuang Chua
>> Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate
>> Send from my iPad
>>
>> On 05/08/2013, at 8:42, Maria and Joe Chapman
>> <bubbygirl1...@gmail.com <mailto:bubbygirl1...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi. I was thinking more along the lines of the app could be
>>> downloaded and is fully functional for a day unless you purchase a
>>> key on the mac or do an in app purchase on the iphone. Some apps
>>> can be rather expensive, I would not be willing to buy a 10 or 20
>>> dollar app I could not use and probably wouldn't unless I had heard
>>> it was at least usable in some way with voice over. How many apps I
>>> wonder are not discovered to be accessible because people are afraid
>>> to buy them in case they are not usable?
>>>
>>>
>>> regards
>>> Maria and crew from australia
>>> email:
>>> bubbygirl1...@gmail.com <mailto:bubbygirl1...@gmail.com> check out
>>> www.95-the-mix.com <http://www.95-the-mix.com> where we play lots of
>>> great music
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 05/08/2013, at 9:01 AM, David Chittenden <dchitten...@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I would rather not give Apple complete access to my phone just so
>>>> they can occasionally check to ensure I am not pirating apps.
>>>>
>>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>
>>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On 05/08/2013, at 10:41, Maria and Joe Chapman
>>>> <bubbygirl1...@gmail.com <mailto:bubbygirl1...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> HI. wouldn't it work better if all apps could be downloaded for
>>>>> free and trialled say for a day? There are lots of apps I'd love
>>>>> to try but am hesitant to download due to the fact that there is
>>>>> really no way to tell if they are accessible or not unless someone
>>>>> on list or someone on applevis has tried them. I mean if it's a 99
>>>>> c app it's not that bad but if it's 5 or 10 bucks? That's going to
>>>>> get expensive.
>>>>> Warm regards and blessings
>>>>> Maria, Joe and FurBabies
>>>>> Email: iMessage:bubbygirl1...@gmail.com <http://gmail.com/>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 03/08/2013, at 6:02 PM, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com
>>>>> <mailto:arno...@mindspring.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> As I state in another message, I would be much more willing to
>>>>>> support a general refund policy, such as Google has, or at least
>>>>>> use to have, rather than an it won't work with VoiceOver policy.
>>>>>> That is just too open to abuse. Besides, a general refund policy
>>>>>> would be an even better way to let developers know if people didn't
>>>>>> like their app, a bunch of them all requested refunds. It might
>>>>>> even improve accessibility.
>>>>>> Arnold Schmidt
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> *From:*Cara Quinn <mailto:modelc...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> *To:*viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
>>>>>> *Sent:*Saturday, August 03, 2013 2:58 AM
>>>>>> *Subject:*Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support
>>>>>> regarding app refund
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sieghard and All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me encourage you and actually everyone on this list to
>>>>>> write Apple Accessibility to request that there be reasonable
>>>>>> accommodation in place for VoiceOver users to receive app
>>>>>> refunds in cases like Sieghard's. I'd also suggest that
>>>>>> Sieghard's note be attached to your own.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe this issue needs to be brought into the forefront in
>>>>>> a positive and decisive way. We are almost 2000 people on this
>>>>>> list and this is a very good opportunity to make this point heard.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This discussion has come up before of being alerted of VO
>>>>>> accessibility ahead of time in the App Store and though we've
>>>>>> not come to a set conclusion on the best way to do this, having
>>>>>> some indication that an app has been found to be accessible to
>>>>>> some degree with VoiceOver before we purchase it is a
>>>>>> completely reasonable request. If this is not possible, then it
>>>>>> is more than reasonable to ask for refunds if we cannot use an
>>>>>> app which is not accessible to us with the available Apple
>>>>>> universal access paradigm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the email address for Apple Accessibility is:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> accessibil...@apple.com <mailto:accessibil...@apple.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> These are very caring people so please keep this in mind when
>>>>>> you write. I've known some of them personally. They want to
>>>>>> help though there may not be a clear way of making this happen
>>>>>> just yet. Just let them know this is important though. Make
>>>>>> your voice heard in a friendly way. they will listen to you
>>>>>> even if they do not know the best answer yet. :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks All, for your time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cara :)
>>>>>> On Aug 1, 2013, at 11:09 PM, Sieghard Weitzel <siegh...@live.ca
>>>>>> <mailto:siegh...@live.ca>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello List,
>>>>>> Requesting a refund for an app which turns out not to work with
>>>>>> Voiceover has come up a few times and the iTunes Store support
>>>>>> email has been posted in connection with that. So I thought I
>>>>>> post my recent experience with contacting iTunes Store support
>>>>>> via their email.
>>>>>> I had bought a couple of package tracking apps in order to find
>>>>>> out which one I liked best. I have been using Track This which
>>>>>> is awesome, but I am in Canada and for some reason they don't
>>>>>> support Purolator and CanPar which are both major carriers
>>>>>> here. I contacted Track This support twice and never received a
>>>>>> reply.
>>>>>> Anyhow, back to iTunes Store support. I provided all the
>>>>>> information including order numbers, purchase date, my Apple Id
>>>>>> etc. I explained how I really enjoyed my iPhone and the
>>>>>> fantastic accessibility, but that unfortunately these two apps
>>>>>> I purchased were not voiceover friendly and there was no Light
>>>>>> version offered which I could have tried first. I also
>>>>>> mentioned that I contacted both developers and after almost a
>>>>>> week had not received a reply. In short, I was friendly,
>>>>>> explained everything and even waited to see if the developers
>>>>>> would reply to see if they were willing to make Voiceover
>>>>>> improvements.
>>>>>> I received a prompt reply in which the agent explained that all
>>>>>> app sales are final, but that given the situation they would
>>>>>> refund me the $6.72 or whatever it was for the 2 apps. However,
>>>>>> she also continued to give me links as to their terms and
>>>>>> conditions and said that this was a one-time curtocy and that
>>>>>> in the future they could not provide any more refunds and that
>>>>>> it was up to me to make sure I didn't turn on one-click
>>>>>> ordering and accidently purchase apps or read the app
>>>>>> description to be sure it was what I wanted. It was strange
>>>>>> because all of this gave me the impression this person did not
>>>>>> at all get the point about Voiceover and all that, but on the
>>>>>> other hand she said they would give me a refund given the
>>>>>> situation. According to what she said I should see the refund
>>>>>> back on my account within 48 hours and since both apps were
>>>>>> purchased using store credit it would come back as store
>>>>>> credit. This is now 2 weeks ago and I replied twice to the
>>>>>> initial message to explain that I still had not received the
>>>>>> credit and I am getting no more replies.
>>>>>> I guess what I want to say here is that those who have done
>>>>>> this and received refunds are lucky, but it appears one should
>>>>>> definitely not count on getting a refund even if an app turns
>>>>>> out not to work with Voiceover. I certainly will not buy an app
>>>>>> again thinking I might as well try it because if it doesn't
>>>>>> work I can always ask for a refund.
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Sieghard
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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