I would just like to put out this quick response. Due to a bout of the flu and some coordinated crises in other areas I have had to ration my time. First up I will say that I will recommend at the next committee meeting that we don't go ahead with the name change vote as apart from a few supporters there has been quite vocal opposition. Nevertheless as promised I will state my reasons for originally supporting the proposal.
To me it is patently obvious that the new name is superior but apparently views on this differ. A poster that reads Apple Users WA Meeting has already selected those who have an interest in the topic. Those that choose to read on will be seeking information as to how to get to the meeting, those not interested (say Android users) will know not to waste their time. The organisations description would be its name so nothing further needs to be remembered. Compare this to a poster that reads WA Mac Users Group Meeting, or WA Macintosh Users Group Meeting, or more correctly the full name Western Australian Macintosh Users Group Meeting. Most persons would not know what the poster was about, but worse it does not describe what our group actually does because it does not cover the iPhone, the iPad, Apple TV and many of the more innovative and recent Apple products. Much as I love the Macintosh and spend a great deal of my time on one it now accounts for only about 15% of the Apple devices sold -- I don't have exact numbers on hand. So many Apple users do not own a Macintosh. Some quick responses to post (from memory): Someone quipped If it ain't broke don't fix it -- a recent meeting had from memory about 8 attendees 6 of whom where committee members. The mailing list is far from broken by the meetings are. Certain of us have put a lot of effort into presentation that a being given to a very small group. Shouldn't it be WA Apple Users -- Yes I would prefer that to WAMUG but to my mind Apple Users WA is better because it puts the purpose of the organisation first then qualifies it with the WA Will Apple allow this -- that we don't know. Trying the name is one way to find out. The fact that we are a users group may mean that we will be OK. The Queensland based Apple-Q users group has passed scrutiny and our current name already has the Apple registered "Macintosh" is its name. What will this cost please publish the books -- I have not done a cost benefit analysis but as a non profit group we do not aim to make a profit. All monies spent further our cause of helping Apple Users and promoting Apple use. I do not off the top of my head know the current state of the books but a personal communication to the treasurer would likely get that. Historically a treasurer's report is given at the general meeting. If you wish to change this please move a motion to that extent. The business saying, become the company that would put you out of business may apply here. We are currently an extremely effective mail list but have very little attendance at the meetings. So for now the name change will not go ahead. Will another group appear and make us irrelevant. Regards, Carlo --- Carlo Margio Real World Computing mob: +61 404 296 965 i...@realworldcomputing.com.au www.realworldcomputing.com.au On 17/09/2012, at 9:19 AM, Ronda Brown <ro...@mac.com> wrote: > Hi Carlo, > > I understand you are busy but you mentioned you would post comment over the > week-end. > I would appreciate a response to my concerns and queries, that I posted on > 12/09/2012. > > I'll itemise my three main concerns / questions that have not been responded > to below. My original email is also included. > > 1. How does Apple itself feel about this name change, given that it wasn't > that long ago (3-4 years I think) that they "took back" AppleCentre names > from the Resellers? Are we (as WAMUG) allowed now to use "Apple Users"? > Or is that something they would take back down the track as well? > > 2. The Committee mention a marketing push in the original post. > Has a marketing push been tried currently with WAMUG as it stands to date? > > Couldn't this be tried as another (much easier) way to try and recruit more > members. Surely just advertising WAMUG - come along to learn all about and > gain extensive knowledge and help for all things Apple - iPhone, iPad, > AppleTV. New members welcome to the monthly meetings. Or something along that > theme? > > Any marketing material would still just refer to "the whole range of Apple > products and services" that you're trying to target. > And those older, longer (or lost) members who still remember WAMUG, it may be > enough of a "Refresh" to dig them out of the woodwork. > As mentioned in my first email, I still get a lot of people that email me > privately about how great a service is given by WAMUG. > > 3. Has a budget or costing been looked at for all this as yet? Or is that to > follow the name change? I know you have to spend money to make money as the > saying goes, but we (as WAMUG as a whole) obviously still need to cover the > running costs of the group I would imagine without "blowing out the budget". > Surely if we could try a marketing push without the added expensive of all > these changes first, would show if it's going to work or not? > > Regards, > > Ronni > > On 13/09/2012, at 7:44 AM, Carlo Margio <wa...@realworldcomputing.com.au> > wrote: > >> Mi Muggers, >> >> There a many interesting points below I would like to comment on. I am mired >> down in family issues and preparation for delivery of a UWA test tomorrow so >> haven't had a spare moment. I will post on the week end. >> >> Regards, >> Carlo >> >> --- >> Carlo Margio >> Real World Computing >> >> mob: +61 404 296 965 >> i...@realworldcomputing.com.au >> www.realworldcomputing.com.au >> >> On 12/09/2012, at 11:40 PM, Pete Smith <smudd...@internode.on.net> wrote: >> >>> Hi Ronni and all other WAMUGGERS. >>> >>> I'd just like to address two points from a personal perspective to put your >>> minds at ease. >>> >>> 1. Domain name. Knowing that the name change would invoke healthy public >>> debate on a public forum and also knowing that there are people out there >>> (not WAMUGGERS!!) who snap up possible domain names to hold out for >>> 'ransom', so to speak, a couple of domain names were snapped up by WAMUG >>> first. >>> >>> If the end result is that the membership vote to change the name, we >>> already have the domain secured. If the end result is that membership vote >>> to retain WAMUG, then the domain names will simply expire and not be >>> renewed. It was just a precautionary thing. >>> >>> Personally - please consider the change and vote for what you want. >>> >>> 2. Constitution. I don't know where the 28 days has come from. Our >>> constitution reads: >>> >>> "5.3 Notice of General Meetings >>> At least twenty one days notice of every Annual General Meeting or fourteen >>> days for every Special General Meeting shall be given to Members specifying >>> the place, the date and the hour of the Meeting and the general nature of >>> any special business, but the non-receipt of such notice by any Member >>> shall not invalidate the proceedings at any General Meeting." >>> >>> The Associations Incorporation Act 1987 allows us to set the time period as >>> we see fit as long it is actually in the Rules (Constitution) which it is. >>> Other bodies may have 28 days but we don't. As you see, it is 21 days for >>> the AGM and only 14 days for a Special General meeting. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Pete Smith >>> >>> On 12/09/2012, at 17:15 PM, Ronda Brown wrote: >>> >>>> OOPS ... I forgot another point I did hint at it my first post to the list. >>>> >>>> In the post from the Committee it was mentioned having to explain the >>>> WAMUG name. Isn't this sort of doing the right thing, as it's getting them >>>> "enquiring" about it. >>>> Once you've got them asking what it is, you then explain what WAMUG is, >>>> what it does (covering all Apple products) etc etc. >>>> >>>> You have then got them intrigued enough to enquire about it,.... so you've >>>> "got them",... then you can sell them on the idea to come and see, come to >>>> a meeting or join the Mailing List. >>>> >>>> Well that's it from me, all done, nothing more to say. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Ronni >>>> >>>> On 12/09/2012, at 4:57 PM, Ronda Brown <ro...@mac.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi WAMUGers, >>>>> >>>>> Well, I have said "Hi WAMUGers" another time ;-) >>>>> >>>>> I've been giving some more thought to this and watching the list and >>>>> comments and pondering the following, which I haven't seen answered as >>>>> yet, so will re-post for interest sake, some of the queries raised so >>>>> far, as well as some points of interest I have. >>>>> >>>>> First off, I'm assuming that appleuserswa.org.au would be the new website >>>>> address. After doing a search of registered Domain Names, I noticed it >>>>> was registered already, which I then discovered was by WAMUG. Just >>>>> curious why this was registered when it has not been agreed on as yet? >>>>> >>>>> Secondly, Merv mentioned the other day that the Special Meeting requires >>>>> a 28 day notice, so may not fall in time for the 2nd October. I'm >>>>> assuming this would then need to be the November meeting to keep in line >>>>> with the constitution. >>>>> >>>>> The Committee mention a marketing push in the original post. Has a >>>>> marketing push been tried currently with WAMUG as it stands to date? >>>>> Couldn't this be tried as another (much easier) way to try and recruit >>>>> more members. Surely just advertising WAMUG - come along to learn all >>>>> about and gain extensive knowledge and help for all things Apple - >>>>> iPhone, iPad, AppleTV. New members welcome to the monthly meetings. Or >>>>> something along that theme? >>>>> >>>>> Any marketing material would still just refer to "the whole range of >>>>> Apple products and services" that you're trying to target. And those >>>>> older, longer (or lost) members who still remember WAMUG, it may be >>>>> enough of a "Refresh" to dig them out of the woodwork. >>>>> As mentioned in my first email, I still get a lot of people that email me >>>>> privately about how great a service is given by WAMUG. >>>>> >>>>> Which also brings out the question of costing? Has a budget or costing >>>>> been looked at for all this as yet? Or is that to follow the name change? >>>>> I know you have to spend money to make money as the saying goes, but we >>>>> (as WAMUG as a whole) obviously still need to cover the running costs of >>>>> the group I would imagine without "blowing out the budget". >>>>> Surely if we could try a marketing push without the added expensive of >>>>> all these changes first, would show if it's going to work or not? >>>>> >>>>> Another point that has been worrying me is... How does Apple itself feel >>>>> about this, given that it wasn't that long ago (3-4 years I think) that >>>>> they "took back" AppleCentre names from the Resellers. Are we (as WAMUG) >>>>> allowed now to use Apple Users? Or is that something they would take back >>>>> down the track as well? >>>>> >>>>> As everyone knows I am all for WAMUG, I believe in WAMUG's principles and >>>>> work and I try to do the very best I possibly can to help people on the >>>>> Mailing List. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Ronni >>>>> >>>>> On 11/09/2012, at 9:39 AM, Ronda Brown <ro...@mac.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi WAMUGers, >>>>>> >>>>>> With sadness that will probably be the last time I use "Hi WAMUGers". >>>>>> I'm not against change but I am feeling sadness that the name WAMUG >>>>>> (Western Australian Macintosh Users' Group) will be no longer. >>>>>> A great reputation was built under that name, and I am honoured and >>>>>> proud to have been awarded a Honorary Life Membership of WAMUG. >>>>>> People from all over the world have contacted me congratulating us on >>>>>> the level of support we give on WAMUG Mailing List. >>>>>> >>>>>>> The committee proposes that our group of Apple enthusiasts be know as >>>>>>> "Apple Users WA". As opposed to WAMUG which has to be explained to all >>>>>>> on first hearing >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't agree that WAMUG has to be explained TO ALL on first hearing, >>>>>> sure as any company/group name abbreviated to an acronym there are some >>>>>> people who you need to give an explanation. If "Apple Users WA" is >>>>>> abbreviated to AUWA you would be explaining to more people. >>>>>> >>>>>> Will the new website be "www.appleuserswa.org.au"? Will the email >>>>>> Address be appleuser...@appleuserswa.org.au? >>>>>> A new Constitution will also need to be prepared. >>>>>> >>>>>> I am not wanting to sound negative about the change as change is >>>>>> normally for the best. Just one last point I would like to make is from >>>>>> what I understand the majority of Members are "Online Members"; members >>>>>> who for varying reasons can not/do not attend WAMUG Meetings and rely >>>>>> purely on the WAMUG Mailing list. >>>>>> >>>>>> Kind Regards, >>>>>> Ronni >>>>>> >>>>>> On 10/09/2012, at 10:00 PM, wamug announce <annou...@wamug.org.au> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Muggers, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As you know the WAMUG Committee is working hard to increase the >>>>>>> availability of our service to Apple users. A number of our recent >>>>>>> meetings have included well received hands on demonstrations in >>>>>>> addition to the traditional segment for problem solving and the sharing >>>>>>> of ideas. Though we are a vibrant and active group and have a >>>>>>> particularly responsive, helpful mail list, the Committee would like to >>>>>>> instigate a marketing push to increase meeting attendance, attract some >>>>>>> new members, and get involved in community outreach. A model that we >>>>>>> can aspire to is that of the dynamic Apple-Q in Queensland. ( >>>>>>> http://www.apple-q.org.au ) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This marketing will include a revamping of the web-site, printing of >>>>>>> business cards, and advertising in local publications and on local >>>>>>> notice boards. Before the marketing initiative begins a name change >>>>>>> would greatly help with public recognition of what our group does. The >>>>>>> committee proposes that our group of Apple enthusiasts be know as >>>>>>> "Apple Users WA". As opposed to WAMUG which has to be explained to all >>>>>>> on first hearing, Apple Users WA obviously describes a group Apple >>>>>>> product users. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We support the whole range of Apple products and services in addition >>>>>>> to the much loved, time honoured Mac. Newer products such as the iPod, >>>>>>> iPhone, iPad and Apple TV all contribute to the easily accessible Apple >>>>>>> ecosystem that we have come to rely upon. Rounding out the Apple >>>>>>> combined ecosystem are services that include iCloud, iTunes, iTunes U, >>>>>>> iTunes Match, the App Store, and the Mac App Store. It is now possible >>>>>>> to own and iPhone and an iPad, and with the use iCloud have an >>>>>>> extremely versatile and functional setup. Younger people in particular >>>>>>> are often in a position where they do not even know what a Mac is. Also >>>>>>> Windows users are often wooed into the Apple fold by the iPhone and >>>>>>> iPad, but may initially not know the benefits of converting to an iMac >>>>>>> or a MacBook. We would like to help these sections of the community as >>>>>>> well as those who make use of the full range of Apple products. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Even though we long standing members are quite comfortable with, and >>>>>>> likely even quite attached to the WAMUG name, a name that better >>>>>>> reflects our activities and sounds more accessible will help us promote >>>>>>> the use of the Apple product range and provide a obvious support group >>>>>>> for the growing collection of new Apple users. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So while aficionados principally do our work on a Mac, increasingly >>>>>>> certain specialised functions are better served by using newer Apple >>>>>>> products and services. The Committee proposes that we change the name >>>>>>> to Apple Users WA to better reflect this. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This name change will require the passing of a motion at a Special >>>>>>> Meeting of WAMUG. We propose that the meeting of Tuesday 2 October be >>>>>>> such a Special Meeting. An email with details will follow shortly. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best Regards, >>>>>>> WAMUG Committee > > -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- > Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml> > Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml> > Settings & Unsubscribe - > <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.wamug.org.au/pipermail/wamug.org.au-wamug/attachments/20120917/fe058675/attachment.htm -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml> Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml> Settings & Unsubscribe - <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug>
