On top of that, it seems that you, Pine, are very enthusiastic about directing people to #wikipedia-en-help, therefore increasing the burden on helpers, but you are often not a helper yourself.
From, Emily On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Sarah Stierch <sarah.stie...@gmail.com> wrote: > Cynicism can be a powerful tool. And you aren't the first person to tell a > shitstarter like me that ;-) > > But seriously - its challenging for all of us when I feel like our > concerns aren't being considered. So take that as you will. We don't get > emails from UX folks on this list anymore....I wish we did. I feel like WMF > employees dropped off this list as contributors as staff (not volunteers > like Kaldari and Swalling - they seem to write here more as volunteers than > staff) after I lost my job and Sue left. I always feel like people forget > there are a lot of changemakers and passionate people on this list. > > We had to prove the need for the Teahouse with data. The community did not > want us to Implement it without proof of need and data on how this type of > project was able to change things. I do this daily with my job in grant > writing and evaluation - I have to show proof that someone needs to spend > money on whatever my nonprofit clients want. > > So it's not cynicism in that regard - if we want to show "the community" > and WMF that there is a problem and a change needs to occur and we have the > data perhaps people will invest time and money in IRC and other things. > > We need to prove that there is a demand for IRC help and that newbies are > failing to get oriented with it. I know there are problems with it...but > knowing is not proving. > > Proof is in the pudding and we need some tasty pudding to get people to > pay attention :) > > Sarah > > I > On Aug 12, 2014 10:19 AM, "Pine W" <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Sarah, the cynicism in your comment is depressing and unnecessary. I >> don't think I can convince you of the value of incremental change so I'm >> not going to try. >> >> Pine >> On Aug 12, 2014 7:49 AM, "Sarah Stierch" <sarah.stie...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> pine when you say "plenty' of people what does that constitute? Does >>> anyone actually track how many needy people come into IRC - let alone those >>> who can't pass the threshold of typing into the chat box? >>> >>> Data is a way to convince people of the need or demand and to spend time >>> investing in IRC. One reason why the Teahouse is so success is because >>> people do not have to leave the wiki to find help. That's one no no in >>> business... >>> >>> I noticed that WMF staff are less interactive on this mailing list these >>> days, for months actually. >>> >>> So who knows if anyone with "influence" is paying attention to this. >>> >>> Sarah >>> On Aug 12, 2014 7:44 AM, "Emily Monroe" <emilymonro...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I often help out at en-help. Often, people who are new at IRC need to >>>> be told where to type. I would think this would qualify as "failing hard". >>>> >>>> From, >>>> Emily >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 6:45 AM, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> That proposal could be considered in the long term, but right now we >>>>> have plenty of people who seek and get help on IRC, and we can make >>>>> incremental improvements to their experience faster than we can build a >>>>> new >>>>> tool from scratch. Few newbies fail hard at IRC. The basics are similar to >>>>> texting and private instant messaging software. Let's improve the newbie >>>>> user experience. >>>>> >>>>> Pine >>>>> On Aug 11, 2014 1:48 PM, "Nathan" <nawr...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Newbies are going to fail hard at IRC. Pretty much all of the >>>>>> questions Seb >>>>>> poses for a built-in newbie chat still exist with a built-in Freenode >>>>>> interface, with the addition of a complicated and often difficult >>>>>> (not to >>>>>> mention culturally... unique) environment. Much better to think along >>>>>> the >>>>>> lines of the Teahouse, but live. You can jump into a chat queue, and >>>>>> people >>>>>> who want to help chat with you, and you can close the chat whenever >>>>>> you >>>>>> want, and you can't contact people outside of the queue using chat. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wikitech-l mailing list >>>>>> wikitec...@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Gendergap mailing list >>>>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Gendergap mailing list >>>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gendergap mailing list >>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Gendergap mailing list >> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Gendergap mailing list > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap > >
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