Re: [Gendergap] Woman posting on Wikipedia about knitting, needs investigating

[Sarah Stierch]

Maybe I'm missing something - what's her username? 

Sent via iPhone - I apologize in advance for my shortness or errors! :)


On Apr 13, 2011, at 1:02 PM, Susan Spencer susan.spen...@gmail.com wrote:

 Wikipedia editors,
 
 Can someone look into Danese's pages please? 
 She probably wouldn't mind if someone contacted her directly to find out more.
 
 - Susan Spencer Conklin
 
 -- Forwarded message --
 From: Danese Cooper dan...@gmail.com
 Date: Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 11:53 AM
 Subject: Re: Knitters and Coders: separated at birth?
 To: Mackenzie Morgan maco...@gmail.com
 Cc: debian-women debian-wo...@lists.debian.org
 
 
 danese on Ravelry, as in life ;-). I've written quite a lot about knitting in 
 public, although for some reason the Wikipedia community won't leave those 
 references on my page :-(.
 
 D
 
 On Apr 13, 2011, at 8:04 AM, Mackenzie Morgan maco...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  2011/4/13 Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso jord...@octave.org:
  This is a cute blog post:
 
  http://www.cs4fn.org/regularexpressions/knitters.php
 
  I know some of you knit, so perhaps you'll find this amusing. Btw, any
  Debianistas on Ravelry? I'm JordiGH there.
 
  I'm macoafi on Ravelry, and I wrote a blog post about crochet  coding
   reverse engineering a bit ago:
  http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com/2010/10/algorithms-reverse-engineering-and.html
 
  (more of an Ubuntu person here, but I do maintain a couple Debian 
  packages...)
 
  --
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Re: [Gendergap] Woman posting on Wikipedia about knitting, needs investigating

[Sarah Stierch]

Wow, the talk page is insane, and is one reason why I gave up in the 
beginning.


I might take a stab on my own userspace to re-write this article. I'm 
somewhat addicted fixing crappy BLP's. Perhaps I'll send it your way 
(here) before I post it.






On 4/13/2011 3:15 PM, Mackenzie Morgan wrote:

Her wikipedia page is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danese_Cooper

and I believe she's referring to the Personal section which has been
edited a few times.  The most recent time I can see someone putting
back the removed knitting references is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Danese_Cooperoldid=348062767

And the most recent removal is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Danese_Cooperoldid=386051343

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Sarah Stierchsa...@sarahstierch.com  wrote:

Maybe I'm missing something - what's her username?

Sent via iPhone - I apologize in advance for my shortness or errors! :)

On Apr 13, 2011, at 1:02 PM, Susan Spencersusan.spen...@gmail.com  wrote:

Wikipedia editors,

Can someone look into Danese's pages please?
She probably wouldn't mind if someone contacted her directly to find out
more.

- Susan Spencer Conklin

-- Forwarded message --
From: Danese Cooperdan...@gmail.com
Date: Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: Knitters and Coders: separated at birth?
To: Mackenzie Morganmaco...@gmail.com
Cc: debian-womendebian-wo...@lists.debian.org


danese on Ravelry, as in life ;-). I've written quite a lot about knitting
in public, although for some reason the Wikipedia community won't leave
those references on my page :-(.



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Re: [Gendergap] Woman posting on Wikipedia about knitting, needs investigating

[Sarah Stierch]

Perhaps I'm just too new to writing BLP's (I've written five so far, and 
I have spoken with 3 of the artists) ...I don't believe I can use 
message boards and such to cite as sources. I know I have to limit the 
self-generated sources I use, such as your blog. While I trust you, 
maybe the folks on the talk page don't :-/ ?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SELFPUB#Self-published_sources

Even if I have ten people confirm with me that you taught them how to 
knit, the information could very well be removed without the appropriate 
source citing.


This is a learning experience, that's for sure! And I admit, it's a bit 
surreal writing the BLP for the CTO of Wikimedia. :)


On 4/13/2011 3:58 PM, Danese Cooper wrote:

Hi there...

So, first of all (since Susan who originally posted this didn't know) 
I'm employed by Wikimedia Foundation.  My bio page predates my 
employment by 6 years, but when I started working for WMF the 
Community did a make-over on my page and I had to re-prove many 
facts of my life.  This year, on roughly the anniversary of my hire, a 
deletionist tried to invalidate my bio because it was mostly Open 
Source folks who had edited it and therefore the deletionist claimed 
Conflict Of Interest (you can see it all in Discussion and subsequent 
ArbCom query)...somehow in that fracas, the knitting references were 
dropped and not replaced...which I think is a pity because when it is 
there many people ask me about knitting in public and I've been able 
to get several programmers (of both genders) to learn to knit as a way 
to deal with attention issues.


As a sidenote in case you wish to restore the whole Personal 
section...here's a better link that explains my Dad really did own a 
rare Alfa Romeo with my unusual name spelling.


http://forum.miata.net/vb/archive/index.php/t-382563.html

and also

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/4406/Nardi-Danese-Alfa-Romeo-Roadster.html 
 Ours was the chassis 948-11, which is described at the bottom of the 
article.


D

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Mackenzie Morgan maco...@gmail.com 
mailto:maco...@gmail.com wrote:


Her wikipedia page is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danese_Cooper

and I believe she's referring to the Personal section which has been
edited a few times.  The most recent time I can see someone putting
back the removed knitting references is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Danese_Cooperoldid=348062767
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Danese_Cooperoldid=348062767

And the most recent removal is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Danese_Cooperoldid=386051343
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Danese_Cooperoldid=386051343

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Sarah Stierch
sa...@sarahstierch.com mailto:sa...@sarahstierch.com wrote:
 Maybe I'm missing something - what's her username?

 Sent via iPhone - I apologize in advance for my shortness or
errors! :)

 On Apr 13, 2011, at 1:02 PM, Susan Spencer
susan.spen...@gmail.com mailto:susan.spen...@gmail.com wrote:

 Wikipedia editors,

 Can someone look into Danese's pages please?
 She probably wouldn't mind if someone contacted her directly to
find out
 more.

 - Susan Spencer Conklin

 -- Forwarded message --
 From: Danese Cooper dan...@gmail.com mailto:dan...@gmail.com
 Date: Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 11:53 AM
 Subject: Re: Knitters and Coders: separated at birth?
 To: Mackenzie Morgan maco...@gmail.com mailto:maco...@gmail.com
 Cc: debian-women debian-wo...@lists.debian.org
mailto:debian-wo...@lists.debian.org


 danese on Ravelry, as in life ;-). I've written quite a lot
about knitting
 in public, although for some reason the Wikipedia community
won't leave
 those references on my page :-(.

--
Mackenzie Morgan


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Re: [Gendergap] Woman posting on Wikipedia about knitting, needs investigating

[Sarah Stierch]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danese_Cooper

I was able to find a citing source about your knitting, but, I can't use 
the self-published sources about your dads car. Now, if someone wants to 
interview you and write that article, then sweet, I can use it =)


Sarah

On 4/13/2011 3:58 PM, Danese Cooper wrote:

Hi there...

So, first of all (since Susan who originally posted this didn't know) 
I'm employed by Wikimedia Foundation.  My bio page predates my 
employment by 6 years, but when I started working for WMF the 
Community did a make-over on my page and I had to re-prove many 
facts of my life.  This year, on roughly the anniversary of my hire, a 
deletionist tried to invalidate my bio because it was mostly Open 
Source folks who had edited it and therefore the deletionist claimed 
Conflict Of Interest (you can see it all in Discussion and subsequent 
ArbCom query)...somehow in that fracas, the knitting references were 
dropped and not replaced...which I think is a pity because when it is 
there many people ask me about knitting in public and I've been able 
to get several programmers (of both genders) to learn to knit as a way 
to deal with attention issues.


As a sidenote in case you wish to restore the whole Personal 
section...here's a better link that explains my Dad really did own a 
rare Alfa Romeo with my unusual name spelling.


http://forum.miata.net/vb/archive/index.php/t-382563.html

and also

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/4406/Nardi-Danese-Alfa-Romeo-Roadster.html 
 Ours was the chassis 948-11, which is described at the bottom of the 
article.


D

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Mackenzie Morgan maco...@gmail.com 
mailto:maco...@gmail.com wrote:


Her wikipedia page is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danese_Cooper

and I believe she's referring to the Personal section which has been
edited a few times.  The most recent time I can see someone putting
back the removed knitting references is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Danese_Cooperoldid=348062767
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Danese_Cooperoldid=348062767

And the most recent removal is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Danese_Cooperoldid=386051343
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Danese_Cooperoldid=386051343

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Sarah Stierch
sa...@sarahstierch.com mailto:sa...@sarahstierch.com wrote:
 Maybe I'm missing something - what's her username?

 Sent via iPhone - I apologize in advance for my shortness or
errors! :)

 On Apr 13, 2011, at 1:02 PM, Susan Spencer
susan.spen...@gmail.com mailto:susan.spen...@gmail.com wrote:

 Wikipedia editors,

 Can someone look into Danese's pages please?
 She probably wouldn't mind if someone contacted her directly to
find out
 more.

 - Susan Spencer Conklin

 -- Forwarded message --
 From: Danese Cooper dan...@gmail.com mailto:dan...@gmail.com
 Date: Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 11:53 AM
 Subject: Re: Knitters and Coders: separated at birth?
 To: Mackenzie Morgan maco...@gmail.com mailto:maco...@gmail.com
 Cc: debian-women debian-wo...@lists.debian.org
mailto:debian-wo...@lists.debian.org


 danese on Ravelry, as in life ;-). I've written quite a lot
about knitting
 in public, although for some reason the Wikipedia community
won't leave
 those references on my page :-(.

--
Mackenzie Morgan


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Re: [Gendergap] Woman posting on Wikipedia about knitting, needs investigating

[Sarah Stierch]

Hi. I actually brought up the issues with the references. While the 
second article about the car is not self-published, it does not state in 
the article that Danese is related to the owner of the vehicle or is 
named after. While she leaves a comment thanking them for the 
information about the Nardi-Danese Alfa Romeo Roadster, it is not cited 
in the article. The latter part I'd consider self-published (her post). 
Perhaps I'm wrong.


The other source is also from forums, which I also think are considered 
self-published. Again, I could be wrong in this?


On another note, I think it'd be really great to see your families 
writing documented. Perhaps there are other options for their release 
into the Wiki world. Perhaps even Commons, by making oral history 
recordings.


I hate being Debbie Downer, I just know that if it's not cited 
appropriately, it'll be questioned.  If someone wants to add the 
information, go for it. I already did my part to re-write the article, 
and Fred lent a hand too.


:D

Sarah

On 4/14/2011 3:12 PM, Susan Spencer wrote:

Fred,

I agree with you.
Especially with handkraft information, there won't be 'references'.
You can't reference what your grandmother or great-grandmother taught you.
Same is true with fairytales or folklore.
I'd like to post some of the Irish tales my grandmother taught me.
I haven't seen them published.   It would be a shame for them to die
because some bonehead decided there should be a published 'reference'.
Which means I won't be able to post what I know, what isn't in any of the
hundreds of sewing books I own, from the 19th century til 2011.
So, I'm rethinking my plans of eventual posting.  I don't want to get 
caught in a shit storm.

What I love is what I love, I don't want it spoiled by argument.

Plus Danese's article about the car wasn't self-published, so where's 
the catch?

Let it stand...

- Susan

--

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 15:48:09 -0600 (MDT)
From: Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net
mailto:fredb...@fairpoint.net
Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Woman posting on Wikipedia about knitting,
   needs investigating
To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects
gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
Message-ID:
40246.66.243.192.69.1302731289.squir...@webmail.fairpoint.net
mailto:40246.66.243.192.69.1302731289.squir...@webmail.fairpoint.net
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1

 On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 13:35, Sarah Stierch
sa...@sarahstierch.com mailto:sa...@sarahstierch.com
 wrote:
 Wow, the talk page is insane, and is one reason why I gave up
in the
 beginning.

 I might take a stab on my own userspace to re-write this
article. I'm
 somewhat addicted fixing crappy BLP's. Perhaps I'll send it
your way
 (here)
 before I post it.

 Could someone say again which article and talk page we're
discussing?
 I've looked at this one --
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danese_Cooper -- but can't see the
issue.
 Ditto with the talk page.

 Sarah

Here is the removal of the information about knitting:


https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Danese_Cooperdiff=347000261oldid=345360328

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Danese_Cooperdiff=347000261oldid=345360328

Removed again:


https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Danese_Cooperdiff=347000261oldid=345360328

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Danese_Cooperdiff=347000261oldid=345360328

This is where it was put in:


https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Danese_Cooperdiff=prevoldid=341488635

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Danese_Cooperdiff=prevoldid=341488635

Seems harmless enough, and hardly requires a substantial reference.

Fred






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Re: [Gendergap] Woman posting on Wikipedia about knitting, needs investigating

[Sarah Stierch]

It does! Thanks fellow-Sarah! 

To be honest, my early editing experiences often make me a more paranoid when 
writing BLPs, so perhaps I took the rules too seriously myself!

Thank you again, a little guidance and clarity always goes a long way :)

Sent via iPhone - I apologize in advance for my shortness or errors! :)


On Apr 14, 2011, at 6:26 PM, Sarah slimvir...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 14:21, Sarah Stierch sa...@sarahstierch.com wrote:
 Hi. I actually brought up the issues with the references. While the second
 article about the car is not self-published, it does not state in the
 article that Danese is related to the owner of the vehicle or is named
 after. While she leaves a comment thanking them for the information about
 the Nardi-Danese Alfa Romeo Roadster, it is not cited in the article. The
 latter part I'd consider self-published (her post). Perhaps I'm wrong.
 
 Sarah, just to let you know that self-published material is allowed as
 a source in the Wikipedia article about the author of the
 self-published material (and in some other circumstances too, if the
 source is an expert).
 
 In this case, if Danese has written about the car on her personal
 website, that can be used as a source in the article about her. The
 limits of this are, among others, (a) there should be no reasonable
 doubt that she's the author; (b) the material should not be unduly
 self-serving (doesn't apply here); and (c) it should not involve
 discussion of third parties, especially living people -- but
 discussing her father in this case would be fine.
 
 The policy on that is here for future reference --
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SELFPUB#Self-published_and_questionable_sources_as_sources_on_themselves
 
 Hope this helps,
 
 Sarah
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SlimVirgin
 

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[Gendergap] Photo of the Day on Wikimedia Commons

[Sarah Stierch]

Surely I'm not the only one who noticed this lovely gem of a photo of 
the day today. In my work environment - NFWS.


http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

Direct link to image:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:On_the_edge_-_free_world_version.jpg

I mean really? /facepalm

This is the kind of imagery I have no desire to see on the front page of 
Commons. I'm a very liberal person, but, this makes me not want to even 
allow my MOTHER to use Commons.


#wikilove,

Sarah


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Re: [Gendergap] [Commons-l] Fwd: Photo of the Day on Wikimedia Commons

[Sarah Stierch]

Hi dz,

Great to hear you'd like to be involved. I've been /really/ busy the 
past few weeks with finishing school, a trip to California, and GLAM 
related activities (oh and Regional Ambassadorness!) - so I haven't had 
time to sit down and get my stuff together for the HOW-TO. But, I'd 
love to add you to our HOW-TO gang if you like.


=)

Sarah


On 5/17/2011 8:17 AM, Deanna Zandt wrote:


I'd also be interested in contributing-- the BLP experience of last 
week was incredibly enlightening, and got me thinking about access... 
having the right key unlocked a wealth of knowledge and aid. How to 
make that key more widely available, or second nature/common 
knowledge? I'm hoping to blog about it soon. In any case, I'd like to 
come at some of the HOW-TO issues in general from that noob perspective.




cheers
dz


On May 16, 2011, at 9:23 PM, Pete Forsyth wrote:

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 10:36 AM, Sarah Stierch 
sa...@sarahstierch.com mailto:sa...@sarahstierch.com wrote:


On 5/16/2011 11:49 AM, Pete Forsyth wrote:

Anybody interested in tackling this issue?
-Pete

I'm working on diving into the HOW-TO this summer for Wiki. I do
want to see all of these topics covered - and I'll contribute in
anyway I can. Where do we start? ;-)


Hi Sarah,

I'd be really happy to work on this with you! (And anyone else).

My sense is that there's a lot of work to do in identifying the 
problem -- or rather, evaluating the collection of interrelated 
issues, and determining where it's best to focus. The things that 
seem significant to me are:


(1) Picture of the Day on Commons often seems to be the source of 
unnecessary strife (moreso than, say, PotD on English Wikipedia);
(2) It appears that there is not a clearly identified set of 
editorial values around what DOES constitute a worthwhile PotD on 
Commons;
(3) The technical and social processes for setting a PotD are 
difficult to understand and poorly documented.


How about if we collaborate a bit on documenting how things currently 
work? I think that process will point the way toward recommending a 
solution.


I've set up a page for this project, if you're game! 
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Peteforsyth/PotD


-Pete
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[Gendergap] Girls Write Now

[Sarah Stierch]

Hi everyone,

A fellow-Wikipedian sent me a link to this after the GLAMcamp weekend, 
and finding that I was active on our Gender gap list:


http://www.girlswritenow.org/gwn/node/988

Could be worth investigating!?

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Re: [Gendergap] an example of the unwanted attention problem

[Sarah Stierch]

(prepares to expose herself a bit, andbreaths)

I have absolutely dealt with this behavior. While no one has openly left
comments on my talk pages, I have been told a few strange things in my day
as a Wikipedian. From I'll help you because I think you're hot
(paraphrasing - I was actually judged on a 1 to 10 rating system by a
group of Wikipedians) to stalking comments from banned users like you're so
hot I'd like you to have my babies.

The only power I have right now is a delete or ignore button. For me, I just
keep on keepin on, because *I expect people to be direspectful and sexist to
me on Wikipedia*. The only thing I can do is to them otherwise, speak my
mind and say what I think, which I'm rather good at. I also rely strongly
on, to be honest, fellow editors - primarily men - who speak up on my
behalf. The few women I know who I consider really good friends on
Wikipedia aren't involved in any aspect of the gender gap, and aren't as
proactive or opinionated as me. Which, I guess gets me into more trouble
than usual. Often these situations are  as common as the sexism I might
experience in the real world, outside of work - but, Wikipedia...it's sort
of work for me, right now.

To be honest, I have a terribly low selfesteem when it comes to my work in
Wikimedia - whether it's thinking I should apply for a job or fellowship, or
it's applying for an admin position, or just speaking up in certain topics.
I feel that I'm not tech savvy enough, and it's really intimidating since so
much of the culture is based around that. It's also intimidating, in
general. Just like any other geek world - whether it's playing online RPGs
(yes, I've dabbled a bit) or having acquaintances who do society for
creative anarchonism (aka play dress up like dungeons and dragons
characters) - they assume because of my name I am one thing. The only thing
I can do is prove them wrong, including the women sometimes too.

I often channel my anger into changing things. But, when I think about my
own experiences, I have no idea what to to do about them.

-Sarah





On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 3:55 PM, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.orgwrote:

 This situation from earlier today has already been resolved, so no drama
 is necessary, but I thought I would post one of the diffs here as an
 example for discussion:

 http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Beriadiff=nextoldid=58432635

 I think this is a good example of the unwanted attention problem that
 I've heard about from several female editors. Generally, when people
 talk about sexist behavior on Wikipedia, they tend to think of
 misogynistic behavior, but I think the unwanted attention/stalking
 problem may be just as important. Have others on the list experienced
 this problem? How did it affect you? How did you deal with it? Any ideas
 for how it can be addressed systematically?

 Ryan Kaldari

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Re: [Gendergap] an example of the unwanted attention problem

[Sarah Stierch]

On Aug 25, 2011, at 5:51 AM, Michael J. Lowrey orangem...@gmail.com wrote:

 
 I think you'd make a darned fine admin, and would be glad to support
 you. We need more than just the technogeeks; indeed, virtually ZERO of
 what I do as an admin is technogeekery.
 


We shall see...good to know all skills or types are needed and warranted.

 
 I'm a historian by training, and can assure you that the Society for
 Creative Anachronism is NOT about dressing up like D  D characters.
 (I've only been in the S.C.A. for 40 years now, and playing DD for
 36.)
 

I didn't mean any offense by my comments. Sometimes I forget SCA does 
historical, there is another group that does fantasy. I have friends who do 
both! (hell, my first job was at a role playing game store in high school. :D)

Thanks for the clarification!

Sarah

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Re: [Gendergap] fyi: Gender Bias in Wikipedia and Britannica

[Sarah Stierch]

Thanks for sharing your research, Joseph!

On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Joseph Reagle joseph.2...@reagle.orgwrote:

 **



 http://reagle.org/joseph/blog/social/wikipedia/gender-bias-in-wp-eb



 Abstract: Is there a bias in the against women's representation in
 Wikipedia biographies? Thousands of biographical subjects, from six sources,
 are compared against the English-language Wikipedia and the online
 Encyclopædia Britannica with respect to coverage, gender representation, and
 article length. We conclude that Wikipedia provides better coverage and
 longer articles, that Wikipedia typically has more articles on women than
 Britannica in absolute terms, but Wikipedia articles on women are more
 likely to be missing than articles on men relative to Britannica. For both
 reference works, article length did not consistently differ by gender.

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Re: [Gendergap] Increasing Visibility of Diversity and Women on Wikipedia

[Sarah Stierch]

Here is the deletion log, for reference, regarding African American women
it looks like the desire was to have it used as a main category and then
have sub categories added to it, and I think that makes sense, but I also
understand some aren't categorized.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2011_July_16

How come Kara Walker, who identifies strongly as a black female artist, is
generalized as an African American woman when I'd rather see her as an
African American female artist. I guess that's too detailed, but, for me, as
a researcher who writes primarily about African American and Native American
artists, I desire categories like this to make my research easier. Instead I
get a generic list of African American artists which is so incomplete:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African-American_visual_artists
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2011_July_16
I also get told I desire to categorize in a way too detailed manner and
that my own writing style is too high brow for Wikipedia then I find my
articles getting simplified in a manner that pains me to read. :P And that's
writing about art.

Here is the categorization policy for race, gender, sexuality:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categorization/Ethnicity,_gender,_religion_and_sexuality#Ethnicity_and_race
I think they read really poorly...like a large portion of documentation in
Wikipedia.  (And let's not get into the anthropological discussion about
race...shall we? ;-) )

Some of the rationale is interesting, and honestly, as a white person who
writes about African American artists, the need for non-white people to
contribute to Wikipedia is as important as closing the gender gap in
general. I know quite a few people who would disagree with statements like
this, not only does it read poorly for the sake of policy, it reads poorly
in general. It offends me, and I'm anglo. Who the hell wants to contribute
to a website when you read people stating that your own culture and
community is not 'worthy of..

   - Being African American is not in itself worthy of categorisation, so
   the articles at the top level should be removed


I also found these entertaining:


   - Someone else argues that Oh yes, African American women's history is a
   valid scholarly field. The fact that even needs to be argued makes me
   scratch my head (I feel sorry that the person has to waste their breath to
   explain that!)
   - Another states that it's sexist if there isn't a category for African
   American male artists or whatnot.
   - Irish Americans are brought into the mix, obviously some of them are
   oblivious to this:
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_people_of_Irish_descent
   - WOW someone brings up the concept of the term African American being
   moot because of the One Drop Rule are you kidding me? If African American
   is moot how come so many people identify as black or African American in
   America? /facepalm

It's situations like this where we desperately need the input of not only
African Americans, or non-white individuals, but, also people with scholarly
backgrounds who are educated in these topic areas. Just the fact that the
guy would bring up the one drop room and declare African American moot is
enough to make my revisionist self foam at the mouth.

I don't know much about female sports and Asian American tennis players to
provide much of an opinion. :-/

Sorry you've been put through so much and disappointed by policies regarding
categorization. This mailing list is a safe place to share your thoughts and
feelings!

#wikilove!

Sarah


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[Gendergap] Childless couples

[Sarah Stierch]

From WP:Feminism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Feminism#Outrageous_male_bias

Man our talk page has been blowing up lately

The article for [[childfree]] is just as weird, including this odd photo:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childfree#Motivations

So glad we have a photo of a guy doing research to illustrate this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childfree#Statistics_and_research

Enjoy!


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Re: [Gendergap] High-heeled shoes as a case study (and what makes me mad about Commons)

[Sarah Stierch]

*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDH9Jq5AWkQ
It's this uncomfortable tension that I feel when I log into Commons. I'm on
the Warriors side.

***(and rant below)


 I know that some of the images have been nominated before and kept, and
 some of the images have to be repeatedly re-categorized, too. I get
 frustrated and at times feel that it is a time sink with no end in sight.


I really do think a bunch of sociopaths try to control what happens on
Commons. I get more pissed off on Commons than I do on Wikipedia, which is
bizarre. I actually *fear* the commons-l list, and I always fear that I'll
have my account banned again because of another stupid mistake which I blame
on the double-speak known as Commons documentation.

Commons is broken, and I really hope Wikimedia Foundation and others realize
that something has to change. It's as if people are afraid of Commons,
afraid of the gang of users who have commandeered control within it, and the
majority of people who wish to utilize it for what it is have to often tread
lightly for risk of screwing something up or pissing some nut job
anti-censorship control freak who thinks bad art and women getting off
with toothbrushes are educational materials.

People are freaking out over the idea of an imagine filter. I mean come
on..why?? It's going to be something each user (if I'm correct) can control,
no one is being *forced* to use it.   It's as if these Commons users are
afraid of being dominated. Something has to change if this website is going
to get healthy.


 That is the reason that I wrote to the mailing list to discuss the matter
 as an community issue. I have come to believe that is rooted in the culture
 values of the WMF editors who add loads of these images to commons.


Thank goodness we have this mailing list.

And I know I come off like a total nut when complaining about Commons, but,
I'm getting sick and tired of it. I'm sick and tired of fighting about
categories, educational material definitions, and double standards.

In a bit of a trollish mood, if you couldn't tell,

Sarah



 We can't walk away from the issue because it is too important. We need to
 discuss it so that we can better understand why that we are having trouble
 addressing the issue in a way that is promotes an inclusive editing
 environment.

 Sydney



 On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 9:20 AM, Toby Hudson tob...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Sarah,

 The principle of least surprise is roughly the following:
 People who go to a category/gallery/encyclopedia-article expecting
 something (shoes) should not be surprised by something they may find
 offensive (naked women wearing shoes).


 One way to ensure this is to make clearly labelled subcategories for the
 potentially offensive material.  In this case, I made a subcategory:

 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Women_wearing_high-heeled_shoes
 and within that

 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Nude_women_wearing_high-heeled_shoes

 so everyone who visits that category knows exactly what they're going to
 see in advance.


 Regarding your Flickr question: Whether the account is deleted or not
 doesn't usually change whether or not the picture is in scope.  But deleted
 accounts do make the copyright status more questionable.  At the time of
 upload, the bot would check that the license is correct, but that doesn't
 eliminate the possibility that the Flickr user is uploading copyright
 violations to their Flickr account (Flickrwashing).  If there are other
 likely signs of copyright violation, I would nominate for deletion (as I did
 for the other image mentioned in this thread
 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Young_girl_with_see-through_tops_and_shorts.jpg).
 When the account is still active, you can also check the rest of the Flickr
 user's contributions to get a good sense of whether they are really the
 author of the photos they're uploading.

 Snapshots aren't necessarily out of scope just because they're snapshots,
 they're sometimes realistically useful for an educational purpose.

 Toby



 On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 10:55 PM, Sarah Stierch 
 sarah.stie...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi Toby -

 Sorry to be a n00b but, can you explain what you mean by refactoring
 this category according to the principle of least surprise?

 For anyone else - if you find an image that has been uploaded by a
 Flickr bot, and the Flickr account has been deleted what do you do? I 
 notice
 a large portion of images like this are often snapshot uneducational photos
 (here is an example:
 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Labace_%2824%29.jpg) I was going
 to nominate it for just being out of scope because Commons is not a
 repository for snapshots.

 ;)

 Asking questions like this on Commons-L isn't very pleasant, so thanks
 for helping!

 Thanks,

 Sarah


 On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 6:48 AM, Toby Hudson tob...@gmail.com wrote:

 I've made a start on refactoring this category according to the
 principle of least

[Gendergap] CFP: From Veiling to Blogging: Women and Media in the Middle East

[Sarah Stierch]

Call for Papers: From Veiling to Blogging: Women and Media in the Middle
East

A great opportunity to papers regarding representation of Middle Eastern
women in technology; Wikipedia, specifically.

Learn more here:
http://centerforinterculturaldialogue.org/2011/09/01/womenmedia-in-middle-east-cfp/

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Re: [Gendergap] High-heeled shoes as a case study

[Sarah Stierch]

LOL, at least he realizes I'm on a vendetta against crappy profile personal
photos too:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Bio_picture.jpg

The more people speak out against crap on Commons the more our voices will
be heard.

;)

On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 9:22 AM, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.comwrote:

 Thanks for the support SJ.

 Does anyone know if there is a template for this?

 It's this that they claim allow images like that to stay on Commons:


 http://www.crucialthought.com/2009/03/03/creative-commons-licenses-cannot-be-revoked/

 Someone else has jumped in and is arguing on some of this content shouldn't
 be here.

 ...fighting the good fight,

 Sarah


 On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 2:10 AM, Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com wrote:

 I would tackle this at the level of deletion templates.

 Flickrwashing is a known widespread source of copyvios.
 1. There should be a template specifically for that class of deletion.
 2. This should be added as a new reason for deletion to the
 appropriate policy page.

 A Flickr-imported image whose original uploader has had their account
 removed, and which has no other indication of copyright status, should
 be eligible for deletion.  This can be counterweighted by
 * significant educational value, e.g., active use (as the best
 available image) in multiple articles
 * significant reason to believe the image was originally posted to
 Flickr by its author [based on metadata or descriptions on the Flickr
 account at the time of import, or other online sleuthing]

 If either of these is true, we can take a risk and wait for a takedown
 notice.  But we should be as harsh on getting copyright confirmation
 for these images as we are for images obviously uploaded by their
 creator or someone who knows the creator, who fail to choose the right
 license template.

 SJ

 On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 12:34 PM, Sydney Poore sydney.po...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 9:59 AM, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
  Just a follow up...
 
  It doesn't even matter, anymore. Some of these images have been
 nominated
  before, and been kept. They all just keep stating I don't know the
 policies
  and that they are in scope. Perhaps it all is and perhaps I really am
 an
  idiot who just can't comprehend the policies, despite reading things
  multiple times.
 
  I think the policy about Flickr accounts being deleted and it doesn't
  matter is one of the stupidest ideas. Two of the images I nominated
 have
  incorrect licenses and were still uploaded from Flickr and okayed by
 a
  bot, despite the Flickr account stating they are all rights reserved. I
 also
  don't get how a deleted Flickr account can still be considered a
 source.
 
  Commons is really good at making a smart person feel stupid and like a
  gnat.
 
  -Sarah
 
 
  Sarah
 
  I know that some of the images have been nominated before and kept, and
 some
  of the images have to be repeatedly re-categorized, too. I get
 frustrated
  and at times feel that it is a time sink with no end in sight.
 
  That is the reason that I wrote to the mailing list to discuss the
 matter as
  an community issue. I have come to believe that is rooted in the culture
  values of the WMF editors who add loads of these images to commons.
 
  We can't walk away from the issue because it is too important. We need
 to
  discuss it so that we can better understand why that we are having
 trouble
  addressing the issue in a way that is promotes an inclusive editing
  environment.
 
  Sydney
 
 
  On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 9:20 AM, Toby Hudson tob...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Hi Sarah,
 
  The principle of least surprise is roughly the following:
  People who go to a category/gallery/encyclopedia-article expecting
  something (shoes) should not be surprised by something they may find
  offensive (naked women wearing shoes).
 
 
  One way to ensure this is to make clearly labelled subcategories for
 the
  potentially offensive material.  In this case, I made a subcategory:
 
 
 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Women_wearing_high-heeled_shoes
  and within that
 
 
 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Nude_women_wearing_high-heeled_shoes
 
  so everyone who visits that category knows exactly what they're going
 to
  see in advance.
 
 
  Regarding your Flickr question: Whether the account is deleted or not
  doesn't usually change whether or not the picture is in scope.  But
 deleted
  accounts do make the copyright status more questionable.  At the time
 of
  upload, the bot would check that the license is correct, but that
 doesn't
  eliminate the possibility that the Flickr user is uploading copyright
  violations to their Flickr account (Flickrwashing).  If there are
 other
  likely signs of copyright violation, I would nominate for deletion (as
 I did
  for the other image mentioned in this thread
 
 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Young_girl_with_see

Re: [Gendergap] Sesame Street articles

[Sarah Stierch]

Christine,

I love that you shared this with us. While I am [[childfree]] (Visit
WP:Feminism for that story), I was raised on a steady diet of Sesame Street
and the Muppet Show. I think it's super awesome that Sesame Street is up for
FA, amazing that you've had so many, I can't even imagine having one! (I get
stressed out over the GA criteria, ha ha!) Good luck on Sesame Street!!

I do agree that children's topics like this are lacking in Wikipedia, and
that parenting in general lacks in quality content on Wikipedia. Whether
it's the pregnancy article or subjects like you mentioned. I'm also
surprised that there isn't a Children's Television WikiProject (or task
force for WP:Television).

I just pulled up the article [[Sesame Street, New York, New York]] and I
think I'm going to edit it a bit =)  I'm surprised someone hasn't tagged it
as missing coordinates ;)

-Sarah


On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 7:38 PM, Christine Meyer
christinewme...@gmail.comwrote:

 This may not qualify as appropriate for this list, but in the little bit of
 time I've been in this mailing list I've seen that articles written by women
 are fair game.  I also believe that this would be appropriate because the
 subject, the children's television show Sesame Street, is a
 female-oriented subject.  These articles have been largely neglected, I
 think, because The Show's viewers are small children and their parents, a
 demographic that doesn't tend to edit Wikipedia.  For that reason, I think
 that they also fulfill the systematic bias.  (I also edit other articles
 that apply, including articles about other children's television shows such
 as Blue's Clues--a GA, and The Wiggles--my first FA).

 BTW, Sesame Street (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sesame_Street) is
 currently up for FA.  This article was delisted in 2008, for good reason,
 and I've been working on it ever since.  It's been quite a journey.  I've
 become an expert on The Show, have amassed a small library of SS books, and
 have experienced a great amount of joy in the process.  FA is so close!  All
 weekend, I'm thinking, C'mon!  It's a holiday weekend; surely you have the
 time to pass it! ;)  If it passes, it will be my 9th FA, and my 1st to pass
 in only one FAC.

 The interesting thing about this article is that it's essentially a series
 of summaries of forked articles, all of which I created or re-wrote.  The
 first of these forked articles, History of Sesame Street, was the first of
 these articles to become an FA.  Many of the others are also FAs or GAs.
 Currently, I'm helping someone write Sesame Street in the U.K. (
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sesame_Street_in_the_U.K.) that demonstrates
 the need for improvement for these articles.  I'm thinking that the creator
 is either a member of the demographic mentioned above or a second-language
 learner.  At the very least, he's a horrible writer.  I was going to just
 let it go (there are scores of badly-written articles on WP, you know), but
 I decided that if I did, I'd be embarrassed by the association.  Ugh, what a
 pain!

 For the most part, other than this fellow and maybe two other editors in
 all of WP, I've been mostly alone in this endeavor.  That's why it's taken
 three years to get Sesame Street to FAC.  There are benefits to working
 this way; I've experienced very little of the drama that I've seen with
 other editors who tend to edit high-profile and controversial articles. I've
 also had, for the most part, very positive experiences as a content editor.


 OTOH, the articles I focus on tend to be highly vandalized.  (Don't get me
 started on Steve Burns!)  Personally, I think that's the key to becoming
 indoctrinated to become a successful WP editor; begin with articles that
 don't get a lot of attention and ones you can learn from and have the
 freedom to make mistakes.

 Christine
 User:Figureskatingfan

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Re: [Gendergap] Pregnancy article lead-image RFC

[Sarah Stierch]

Daniel, I totally 3 your use of denial and hostile work environment.

Chiming in right now. Been following it since it was posted on WP:Feminism
and was sickened by the conversation, so had to move on..

-Sarah

On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 8:42 PM, Daniel and Elizabeth Case 
danc...@frontiernet.net wrote:

 **
 An RfC has been opened on the continued use of the photo of a nude pregnant
 woman as the lead image at [[Pregnancy]], remarked upon here recently.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Pregnancy#Lead_image_RfC

 I found the response by HiLo48 to my !vote (where I raised the to-me
 relevant issue that I didn't see anyone else talking about directly) very
 revealing for our current discussions and this list in general.

 Daniel Case


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Re: [Gendergap] Pregnancy article lead-image RFC

[Sarah Stierch]

 Can anybody confirm that there have already been invasions of authors
 contributing uniquely to post photos of their personal lives ?


Wikimedia Commons frequently gets image uploads of personal content on a
daily basis. Commons is NOT a web host for personal images (
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:What_Commons_is_not#Commons_is_not_your_personal_free_web_host).
As someone who participates in deletion on Commons, I nominate plenty of
family travel photos (sorry we don't need 10 photos of you, your wife and
your baby in Paris) on a weekly basis.

On another note, I do support the use of high quality smartphone photos,
specifically high quality from the likes of iPhone (which honestly, the new
iPhone 5 that will come out will have a camera as good as a standard digital
camera did last year). I've actually tossed around the idea of doing a Wiki
Takes event that focuses on iPhoneography, or at least an event that
releases all images created CC-BY-A.

If I do come across the rare crappy cell phone photo (it is indeed rare), I
tag it low quality (if it is) and if we have better images of that subject
of better quality, I will nominate it for deletion.

Sarah
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Re: [Gendergap] Pregnancy article lead-image RFC and the lack of junk in articles

[Sarah Stierch]

On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 3:04 AM, Arnaud HERVE arnaudhe...@x-mail.net wrote:


 very casual instead. Might be my European education, I don't know.


Possibly :) I consider myself a very sex-positive person, but, I also know
when political correctness and forcing people to view nudity is
inappropriate. In this matter, to me, it's forcing people to view a really
medicore photo of a woman nude and pregnant and making the article something
people can't view at work. Also, at least in the US Google search, you have
to go sometime before you find any images of naked women who are pregnant.
There are plenty of tasteful photos of women clothed, or women clothed with
their belly showing. I never even looked at the pregnancy article until it
was brought to my attention and i was like Whoa, okay...whoa. But, I'm a
[[childless]] person by choice, and the whole concept of pregnancy makes me
anxious ;-)


I was trying to think of an example of something that might be relevant to
men. I looked at the [[vasectomy]] article and was happy to see that there
was a medical drawing of a groin, and not someone's privates at the first
image (aguug), but, you scroll down a bit and there it is, but, I
expected it.

[[Castration]] is the same, actually, I'm more shocked by this one because
there IS NOT a photo of a castrated man. What the hell is that about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castration   We also have a ton of photos
(gahhh!!!) of castrated guys. Who wants to spend time adding a photo to the
castration article? Anyone? ;)  We have artwork, but not junk. The last
conversation that took place about this was in 2006, where a user cried 
goat.se: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Castration#pictures.3F And
people getting grossed out by a horse castration (ughh).



 I think that for medical articles, all the relevant body parts must be
 fully exposed. And believe me I have seen much worse than a healthy
 pregnant woman, because i do website editing for a faculty of medicine.


Well we need a photo on the castration page.  But, you also work in an
environment where nude medical images are acceptable. Many of us aren't in
that environment :) Many of us also like surprises, but not naked surprises
(outside of perhaps your love life).

Sarah


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Re: [Gendergap] So this is how Commons works?

[Sarah Stierch]

In response to Sydney's post..

Having worked in the photography industry (and been forced in front of a
camera a few times in my day..) as a consultant and a make-up artist (10
years in that industry) I've written, signed, had others sign, and dealt
with model release forms a million times over. Here is a nice standard break
down of that from the NYIP:

http://www.nyip.com/ezine/techtips/model-release.html

If we require permission for use via OTRS, I don't know why we can't have
model release be incorporated sexual/nude photography, modeling
photography, studio photography. Materials used for educational purposes, as
Commons is supposed to be, this shouldn't be too hard. I haven't thought too
hard about it yet, but, it is possible.

There of course comes the question of grandfathering in content, and Flickr.
The strange thing about all this creative commons stuff on Flickr - is that
most people *don't* release photographs of their friends, naked partners, or
themselves to be used freely by the world CC-By-A/SA.  So, it's always
really hard for me to trust Flickr accounts where people are releasing their
content for free use of naked people without some type of quality release
content or statements on their page. I don't even release photographs of my
friends via CCBYA (and if I would, I'd have permission), except Wikimedia
related events and even then I have to ask people (generally) if it's okay
if I post their photo.

There is also the idea of a warning that is more amplified. One could ask
the uploader if it's questionable content they're uploading (or perhaps we
can have some fancy Commons thing that scans the image for certain body
parties, styles or actions) to make sure they really want to do that. We've
had two teenagers (a 13 an 14 year old) recently request photographs of
their lower-half in there mere underwear be removed from Commons. These
presumed children uploaded photos of themselves, probably to be sexy and
voyeuristic (like so many of us in the digital age growing up have explored)
and then went OH GOD NOO a few days later.

The age is bad enough, but...plenty of people go Ok please delete my crotch
from Commons often enough.

This brainstorm features:


   - Model release form combined with OTRS
   - Commons nekkid parts sensor (i.e. like face recognition but for boobs,
   penises, vaginas, doggie style, whatever)
   - Alert for uploaders with sexual content making sure they want to do it
   - And I'll throw in a review of Flickr policy.

Sarah



On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 8:40 PM, Sydney Poore sydney.po...@gmail.comwrote:

 See the standard for medical images from the American Medical College of
 Genetics

 http://www.acmg.net/resources/policies/pol-020.pdf

 I worked with people with high risk pregnancy and sometimes we took
 pictures of the baby if it had a genetic disorder. But we always got consent
 first.

 Sydney


 On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 8:33 PM, Sydney Poore sydney.po...@gmail.comwrote:

 I left Yann a message on his talk page asking him to reconsider.

 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Yann#Korean_Vulva

 I sincerely hope that she did give consent and knows that it is on
 Commons. Otherwise we are exploiting her.

 I disagree that the person is not recognizable. It would be very unethical
 to upload this image without this person's consent. True exploitation of the
 person.

 I feel very strong about this point because of the my knowledge of past
 exploitation of people in medical images in textbooks and medical journals,
 some of them nude. It was absolutely wrong when it was done in the name of
 education and it is wrong for us to do it now.

 Sydney Poore
 User:FloNight



 On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 4:53 PM, Sarah Stierch 
 sarah.stie...@gmail.comwrote:

 This is a NSFW photo
 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Korean_Vulva2.jpg

 Five for deletion, two for keep. This is its third nomination.

 An admin came in today and declared it being kept because No valid
 reason for deletion, per previous decisions. Person is not recognizable. It
 has been nominated twice, by anon IP's who have simply declared porn or
 obscene as the deletion reason (not enough of a reason).

 I nominated it, like I do many things, because it was unused on any
 project since its upload in March of 2009, it's uneducational, and the poor
 description proves that. I also think it's poor quality - if we need an
 educational photo of a vulva we have two really fab ones on the [[vulva]]
 article. Which of course was argued (a nude photo of a headless woman blow
 drying her hair in heels with the blow dryer cord and shadow in the shot..
 come...on...), and as FloNight noted, we can probably have some high quality
 photos of a nude woman using a blow dryer that aren't taken in the bedroom
 for the project..if it's that in demand.
 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Korean_Vulva2.jpg

 I shouldn't even act surprised...I guess.. :-/

 Were the reasons we

[Gendergap] Tagging bot?

[Sarah Stierch]

I was talking with User:Dispenser a bit on IRC this morning, he gave me
permission to post his ideas to this list (since he's better at explaining
these things..than I!)

dispenser: SarahStierch: I've read from Chatroulette that genital detection
only has a low accuracy rate, about 20% false negatives.  Face detection on
the other hand is very accurate.  Now somewhere on commons is guideline
instituted by German privacy zealots to comply with Germany's privacy laws
regarding identification of people.
[2:31pm] SarahStierch: I see
[2:31pm] SarahStierch: I figured the accuracy would be low.
[2:36pm] dispenser: You could lobby for a bot to start tagging faces in
images for a number of reason:
[2:36pm] dispenser: 1) Compliance with laws that reuses might face, e.g. in
Germany
[2:36pm] dispenser: 2) Eliminating or replacing vacation photographs of
locations that have family members in them
[2:37pm] dispenser: 3) Likewise with articles of clothing, e.g. a halter top
doesn't need to show a face
[2:43pm] dispenser: Something like
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Personality_rights

Something for us to think about while we examine policies and decide on our
next steps to bringing this to the larger community. (And the pros/cons of
course).

-Sarah



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Re: [Gendergap] Resolution:Images of identifiable people

[Sarah Stierch]

 IMO, the Commons policy needs to be tweaked to to ensure that the person
 giving consent for the image to be taken understands that it will be
 uploaded with a free license, and what that means.


Yes, there doesn't really seem to be an appropriate representation about
this. I also think it should be acceptable to have some type of model
release OTRS type template and expiration date for deletion if not acquired.



 Most of the the medical groups policies about medical images of people
 assumes that the person in the image has less knowledge about where the
 image might be used, and says that information needs to be provided to the
 person so that they understand how widely that it might be disseminated.


Absolutely. The moment a person releases something into the free culture
world, many have no clue what that can mean. As with many of the problems we
have with Wikimedia culture - with readers, writers, lack of contributors -
it all comes to informing the public, and again, uploaders and participants
need to be better educated (or warned) about what their content being
release means. There has to be better ways we can do this. Even if it means
dumbing things down (for normal human beings who don't know Wiki-speak,
which seems to be a HUGE portion of the people who upload to Commons).


 Right now we don't have a procedures in place that help us gather informed
 consent from models. This is an area that needs more work.


Exactly.



 Also, we need to tweak the policy so that people who appear in a
 semi-public places are protected. Many times people will go into a
 semi-public place with  the expectation that only the people in that
 location will see them. IMO, sunbathing on a beach outside your rented beach
 house does not mean that you intended your image to be taken and uploaded
 for anyone in the world to see and be re-used in publications without your
 consent. The same is true for many people going about their normal routine.
 I don't think that someone walking from their car (or bus) into work
 intended to give consent for their photograph to be taken, uploaded with a
 free license, and their body parts and fashion apparel be categorized,
 especially in a sexualized way.


+1. There are hundreds of photographs of women sunbathing, walking down the
street, etc. It makes me severely uncomfortable that we have people taking
photographs of people in a voyeuristic manner uploading images to Commons,
Flickr, whatever. Just because someone (of any gender) lays on the beach,
walks down the street wearing something sexy, or whatever, doesn't mean they
are asking to have their photograph taken.


-Sarah



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Re: [Gendergap] Upskirt/downblouse categories (was: Re: So this is how Commons works?)

[Sarah Stierch]

And as a note - when you review the content that users are uploading using
Bryan's bot, the MAJORITY of it is educational content. Nothing
questionable or too contorversial.

It seems the biggest problems come from a freedom of panorama, nudity/porn,
and celebrity images uploaded to Flickr with incorrect permissions/not the
users work/copyright infringement/blahbalhblah. It does appear that there
are some users that just upload every bit of free content they can find
outside of family photos.

Like Commons, anyone can upload it, but, unlike Commons, no one on Flickr
reviews content for appropriateness and copyright correctness.  I suppose we
are one step ahead, it's just irritating when you come across an image's
source and this is what you get:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22186088@N03/4038072177/

Sarah


On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Chris Keating
chriskeatingw...@gmail.comwrote:


  Especially when the images are scraped off the CC-BY and CC-BY-SA Flickr
  streams.
 
 That was something I noticed the other day. An anon replaced the
 infobox image on Veganism with a close-up shot of a woman's genitals
 and a vibrator. I looked to see who had uploaded it and it said Flickr
 upload bot. So is there a bot that uploads all cc images from Flickr
 indiscriminately?


 Apparently a bot does the work, but a human has to ask for them.

 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Flickr_upload_bot

 Chris

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Re: [Gendergap] Resolution:Images of identifiable people

[Sarah Stierch]

They don't appear to be in any questionable or exploitative situations. I would 
like to think you did ask their verbal permission or informed them that they 
represent their town on Wikipedia.  I have learned to avoid people in images 
without strict permission after having an anthropologist as a mentor :-) 

Again, and I believe I have stated that it's content that is questionable we 
need to be concerned with. This is what guidelines and best practices are for.

Sent via iPhone - I apologize in advance for my shortness or errors! :)


On Sep 12, 2011, at 4:12 PM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote:

 
 
 
 +1. There are hundreds of photographs of women sunbathing, walking down
 the
 street, etc. It makes me severely uncomfortable that we have people
 taking
 photographs of people in a voyeuristic manner uploading images to
 Commons,
 Flickr, whatever. Just because someone (of any gender) lays on the beach,
 walks down the street wearing something sexy, or whatever, doesn't mean
 they
 are asking to have their photograph taken.
 
 
 -Sarah
 
 
 How about this one:
 
 https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/wiki/File:TalkingintheRoad.JPG
 
 Anyone's permission required?
 
 Fred
 
 
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Re: [Gendergap] Question for the Foundation about photographs of women

[Sarah Stierch]

I applied for Commons OTRS today...


Sarah

Sent via iPhone - I apologize in advance for my shortness or errors! :)


On Sep 12, 2011, at 5:45 PM, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 10:17 AM, Pete Forsyth petefors...@gmail.com wrote:
 It seems like we have strong consensus that a separate customer support 
 queue, run by and for women, would be a good idea. I certainly think so!
 
 Who here is active on OTRS? I'm on it, and on the email list, but I'm not 
 active there. It might be best for somebody float the idea over there, see 
 how it's received, and if there's agreement, figure out the steps to get it 
 up and running. (I'm sure that having a small corps of female volunteers 
 willing to staff it will be an essential element!)
 
 I'm not very active, .. :/
 I've initiated a discussion thread on the private otrs wiki, copying
 your email text and linking to this thread.
 
 http://otrs-wiki.wikimedia.org/wiki/Café#queue_for_verified_females
 
 --
 John Vandenberg
 
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Re: [Gendergap] Resolution:Images of identifiable people

[Sarah Stierch]

 Sydney -- all good ideas, for sure! The resolution was intended as a
 (re)focusing device, as you note; and there is still lots of work to
 be done. One of the areas is making sure that all wikis have a similar
 policy. Would it help to put together a page on meta to coordinate
 this?



I'm not sure if we're ready to move it to meta yet, I do wish we had a more
private place to develop this. It's a rather sensitive topic for folks.
Perhaps a google doc or...?


Sarah


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Re: [Gendergap] Resolution:Images of identifiable people

[Sarah Stierch]

 To be honest, I think that working as publicly as possible is only
 good, in the long run, for what needs to happen. Transparency is super
 important.


I suppose it's paranoia that makes me sensitive about making it so
transparent in an infant stage. But, if we have to place it someplace
public, that's fine. I'll let other participants make the final decision =)
*eyeballs everyone else*

Sarah
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Re: [Gendergap] Wikifashion

[Sarah Stierch]

On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.netwrote:



 http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/fashion/students-startup-weaves-a-web-that-keeps-growing-20110914-1k9hi.html


*''If you look at Wikipedia, a lot of the [fashion] designer or brand pages
do not have a lot of information on them, and Wikipedia does not really
focus on images, so you will not ever find the new collections or [fashion]
look books on there,'' she says.

''At the moment, there is no central database for fashion, a location where
a girl can find the latest look book for Marc Jacobs or the first collection
for Chanel. Either they are not there or they are on a host of different
websites, so we want to create all of that in one place.''*
*
*...uh..it's called Style.com and it's the greatest fashion website, *ever*,
and has been for almost ten years. (Always makes me laugh that people in the
fashion world forget men are as into fashion as much as women are, too!)



 http://wikifashion.com/wiki/Main_Page


I really like the layout and such of the website. I do think it's kind of
interesting, that for a fashion website, they don't have any copyright data
for the photographs they are using (most are copyrighted), fair use
mentions, etc. After reading a few pages in the Designer category... (and as
someone recovering from a career in the fashion industry) it's a mix of
preachy bias content about how amazing certain designers are (Yes, Karl
Lagerfeld is awesome, I have to admit), small time or no-name designers who
write their own articles and upload photos of their designs, etc, or cut and
paste unsourced content. The website started in 2008 and most articles have
under 8 edits and lack special mark up. It is promotional enough, they also
have one paid advert and is not a non-profit org ;)

Perhaps this is what people want? ;)

I suppose I'm being debbie downer (as usual) but, I tend to look at female
dominated Wiki's and see what makes them different, with a critical eye, to
see what *we* are doing right and wrong, and vice versa.

I do like this though (scroll down to badges), not the portraits..but the
round badges. I'd love to see something like this developed for Wikipedia.
I'd have them on my tumblr, etc.

http://wikifashion.com/wiki/Wikifashion:Contributors_Needed



Sarah


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[Gendergap] Other women's wiki's

[Sarah Stierch]

These are two others that I have stumbled across. I think it's really
interesting to look at these wiki's and see what makes them good/bad,
attractive/not, etc. I think there can always be something to learned..I've
looked at these extensively, and even made accounts on them to explore the
process. I encourage others to experience and perhaps share what you think
makes these different, good/bad, etc, compared to Wikipedia.

Global Women's Network has videos on how to do things a simple as create a
user account...which I think is nice.

http://www.global-womens-network.org/

http://wikigender.org/index.php/New_Home

-Sarah


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Re: [Gendergap] Wikiquotes

[Sarah Stierch]

Yes! I have never edited or contributed anything to wikiquote. I have
contributed to Wikisource, and I'm starting to think I'm the only woman who
ever has, even though it was two documents. I don't even think there is much
of anything related to women's history on Wikisource...

We were discussing in #wikimedia-gendergap a few days ago about the need for
more featured images of women and related subjects on Commons. I kept
rolling my eyes everytime I saw the ATV that was a featured image the other
day.

I'm actually developing a wikipage that will showcase a collection of topics
that need expansion, watching, clean up, etc, and/or photos for English
Wikipedia, which I naturally assume will be the same for other languages.
Once it's a little fleshed out we can see if it's useful in any way. I think
it's interesting just to see what we're lacking on...on top of the 1009232
other things I'm doing...

-Sarah

On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 9:08 AM, carolmoor...@verizon.net wrote:

  Looking at my wikiquotes talk page for the first time in a while, I was
 reminded that is another area women's contributions may not be taken as
 seriously.

 Example: the deletion in 2009 of poet Marcella Boccia's quotes from English
 wikipedia after her article had been deleted from En wikipedia.

 Actually, I just checked and it's not in the Italian wikipedia version
 either.  Despite
 http://www.google.com/search?ned=ushl=enq=Marcella+Bocciatbm=nwstbs=ar:1notability
  in Italian I noted at time of deletion discussion.

 So let's not forget Wikiquote!!





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Re: [Gendergap] Hairdresser, hairstylist...barber?

[Sarah Stierch]

Hopefully that'll change (I think?)

I encourage everyone to improve on it and watch the super awesome video I
just added from the Netherlands Institute for Sound and Vision. They sure
don't do hair like they used to

:D

-Sarah

On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 6:04 PM, Nicole Willson
artisticaltru...@gmail.comwrote:

 Interestingly enough, the top Google result for hairdresser is the barber
 article  on Wikipedia.


 On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.comwrote:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hairdresser

 Oh yeah!!! A brief history is added and some statistical data about
 hairdressers in the US today.

 /cheer

 -Sarah


 On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.orgwrote:

 Article started: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hairdresser

 Please add to it!

 Ryan Kaldari

 On 9/15/11 6:31 AM, Fred Bauder wrote:
  On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 5:03 AM, Sarah Stierch
 sarah.stie...@gmail.com
  wrote:
  I searched for hairdresser and was directed to barber.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hairdresser
 
  Kind of interesting, that it directs to barber and then discusses
 male
  barbers and men's haircutting culture.
 
  Surely I can't be the only person who finds this odd...
  Did you take a look at the article history? Would you prefer the last
  pre-merger version
  (
 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hairdresseroldid=238820338)
  over a redirect to a proper article about the same subject?
 
  Regards,
  Ole
  Yes, it is as simple as writing a good article.
 
  Fred
 
 
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Re: [Gendergap] Hairdresser, hairstylist...barber?

[Sarah Stierch]

Ack! I just nominated somethingand you did also!

-Sarah

(mine was about the 5 foot tall hairdo and Marie Antoinette...)

On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.orgwrote:

 **
 Wow, that was fast! Nice work. I think this deserves a DYK :)

 Ryan Kaldari


 On 9/15/11 2:54 PM, Sarah Stierch wrote:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hairdresser

 Oh yeah!!! A brief history is added and some statistical data about
 hairdressers in the US today.

 /cheer

 -Sarah

 On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.orgwrote:

 Article started: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hairdresser

 Please add to it!

 Ryan Kaldari

 On 9/15/11 6:31 AM, Fred Bauder wrote:
  On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 5:03 AM, Sarah Stierchsarah.stie...@gmail.com
 
  wrote:
  I searched for hairdresser and was directed to barber.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hairdresser
 
  Kind of interesting, that it directs to barber and then discusses male
  barbers and men's haircutting culture.
 
  Surely I can't be the only person who finds this odd...
  Did you take a look at the article history? Would you prefer the last
  pre-merger version
  (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hairdresseroldid=238820338
 )
  over a redirect to a proper article about the same subject?
 
  Regards,
  Ole
  Yes, it is as simple as writing a good article.
 
  Fred
 
 
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Re: [Gendergap] Projects/Ideas page in Wikipedia to address the gendergap

[Sarah Stierch]

I've also been fiddling around with this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch/Women_related_articles

I'd like to host it other than in my userspace...and feel free to add to
it..it's a work in progress. Please contribute. This is based on content
linked to women and more. Feel free to add content that needs to be
created as well.

-Sarah

On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 4:16 PM, Joseph Reagle joseph.2...@reagle.orgwrote:

 On Friday, September 16, 2011, Amy Senger wrote:
  Hi Folks - I know there is a page in Wikipedia with ideas/projects to
  address the gendergap which I forgot to bookmark and can't find in
 search.
  Can someone be kind enough to send me the link, please?

 I've been meaning to send this link to the right place, but I'll just share
 the link here for now. Our biography analysis turned up quite a few women
 who probably merit an article, and the NWHP provides enough material for a
 stub at least.
  http://reagle.org/joseph/2010/06/gender/nwhp-women.html

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[Gendergap] Weird lame body fashion whatever website of the day

[Sarah Stierch]

Neckline!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neckline

The choices are really mediocre for the neckline women's section.  One of
the photos is titled Boobies.jpg.

:P

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[Gendergap] Kelly Wearstler

[Sarah Stierch]

An article was brought to my attention about an interior designer, Kelly
Wearstler, who is also a fashion designer. The interesting twist - she was
Playboy of the Month in September 1994.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_Wearstler

One user is arguing that she's more famous as a one time Playboy centerfold
(which she did under a pseudonym to pay her student loans), and not so much
as a designer. I argue that (hell, just compare the Google statistics - over
200,000 for Kelly Wearstler designer  and about 27,500 for Kelly
Wearstler Playboy. I know who she is, and it isn't because she is a Playboy
model (and I'm not an uninformed person, I've read my fair share of
Playboys). Anyway, they want to have a special centerfold infobox (or
something of that sort) that tell her breast size, etc. Another user is
arguing it goes against [[WP:Undue]] not balancing the article correctly.  I
agree. No point in having a fashion designer and interior designers one time
Playboy bunny moment overweigh the fact that she's got best selling books,
has been a judge on a reality show on Bravo called Top Design and she
sells her designs at Bergdorf Goodman.

Check out the talk page, it's short, but interesting.

-Sarah

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[Gendergap] Women Rock at Supporting Nonprofit Causes

[Sarah Stierch]

Doing a bit of research on trends in museums (for an internship) and
stumbled across this article from May...

http://nonprofit.about.com/od/generationalfundraising/a/Women-Rock-At-Supporting-Nonprofit-Causes.htm

A lot of it solidifies many things some of us have been saying, believing
and reading about for a while now. I think it's so important for us to see
the gender differences in donations in Wikimedia, how we can really latch
into getting women who contribute as donors to be contributing beyond just
reading, and really let women know (donor or not) that just by
contributing content or images, or edits, is a donation, in a way, to the
world of knowledge. It's so important to let one another know that the work
we're doing is important - regardless of gender - but that it also has a
special image on women..and our contributions.

Your daily reminder... :)

-Sarah

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Re: [Gendergap] Black skins

[Sarah Stierch]

History continues to be written by Anglos and it's just as apparent in
Wikipedia..and add a male dominated voice, and well...that's history.

The same goes for topics about Native American subjects. I say it in my
lecture about Indigenous peoples working with Wikipedia - it's just like any
other history, it's primarily written by white males, and that has to change
(followed with a picture of Kevin Costner).  (I'm sure the same goes for
other communities/races/ethnicity/skin colors articles, whatever you prefer,
as well, these are just two areas I tend to write in..)

Malcolm X described history being bleached, and I couldn't agree more.

And here is one of my favorite Onion slaps:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/white-history-year-resumes,139/

Having dialogue like this is a great start - I'd love to see it develop into
a larger community discussion, like the gender gap publicity did. There is a
lot of work to do, but, if we can develop successes with women, I like to
think we can develop opportunities with more specific communities - and
perhaps both at the same time.

-Sarah




On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 7:28 PM, Brandon Harris bhar...@wikimedia.orgwrote:



 On 9/19/11 4:26 PM, Andreas Kolbe wrote:
  Here is an example of Caucasian bias: the en:WP article on [[hair
  straightening]].
 
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hair_straightening
 
  Despite the fact that this is a topic of great practical interest to
  black women, many of whom either have straightened their hair or have
 thought about doing it, the
  article makes no mention of afro hair, and the only two images are of
 Caucasian women.

Topical to this, there is a documentary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Hair

That points out that hair straightening (Relaxer) is a billion
 dollar
 industry.  This is a clear bias; I'm actually flabbergasted by this.

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[Gendergap] Hairdresser

[Sarah Stierch]

Look who's in the DYK! :)

Go team!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

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[Gendergap] Derby..

[Sarah Stierch]

Scored three roller derby shots from photographer Tom Klubens today, OTRS is
pending.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Photographs_by_Tom_Klubens

Hopefully I can weasel a few more! All it takes is an email. I encourage you
all to reach out to a photographer about something that needs better
coverage on Wikimedia, and ask them for a media donation today.  Then, of
course, brag about them on Facebook, Twitter, mailing lists, etc, and praise
them for how awesome they are for helping the mission and encourage others
to join in. ;)

-Sarah

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Re: [Gendergap] Hairdresser

[Sarah Stierch]

Re: Hairdresser

1. It's now the number one hit when you Google hairdresser and the second
(behind the general Wikipedia category) for hairdressing

2. Nice to see the numbers grow after the article was re-instated and
written: http://stats.grok.se/en/201109/Hairdresser

Of course, you compare it to barber :X http://stats.grok.se/en/201109/Barber

-Sarah

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 6:40 PM, Emily Monroe emilymonro...@gmail.comwrote:

 Yes! Go us!

 From,
 Emily



 On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 3:35 PM, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote:

 very nice.

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Re: [Gendergap] Incentive programs and wikicups: Effectiveness?

[Sarah Stierch]

Laura - this is probably more of a topic for say cultural partnerships - if you 
would like (and I would suggest it) I can add you there, I co-mod the list.

-Sarah (Stierch)

Sent via iPhone - I apologize in advance for my shortness or errors! :)


On Sep 23, 2011, at 5:30 AM, Laura Hale la...@fanhistory.com wrote:

 Has anyone done any research or know of any research that has looked into the 
 effectiveness of incentive programs like British Museum at 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:GLAM/BM/Featured_Article_prize ?  Or 
 into the effectiveness of wikicups like Bacon at 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Bacon/Bacon_WikiCup/2012 ? 
  Do they spur collaboration?  Do they engage new audiences that may not 
 otherwise have worked on content or similar content?  
 
 -- 
 twitter: purplepopple
 blog: ozziesport.com
 
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[Gendergap] 13 year old joins WP Pornography?

[Sarah Stierch]

Entertaining...bizarre...scary...odd? Real? fake?

Don't get me wrong. If Wikipedia was around when I was 14, I so would have
joined WP:Feminism. But, I was a 14 year old riot grrrl using BBSes. ;-)

-- Forwarded message --
From: Kim Bruning k...@bruning.xs4all.nl
Date: Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 1:26 PM
Subject: [Foundation-l] Larry Sanger tweets about 13 yo in Wikiproject
Pornography
To: foundatio...@lists.wikimedia.org



Dear Press: a self-described 13 YO joined Wikiproject Pornography.
Wikipedians support him. webcitation.org/61v0ykxJe
webcitation.org/61v1FfW3K
   - http://twitter.com/#!/lsanger/status/117299089439334400


The on-wiki argument is that there are many areas in that project that don't
actually involve nudie pics, but rather cover
areas of law, etc. scratches head

sincerely,
   Kim Bruning

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[Gendergap] A reminder about IRC #wikimedia-gendergap

[Sarah Stierch]

Hi everyone,

Just a reminder that we have a #wikimedia-gendergap IRC (internet relay
chat) channel! This is a hang out spot where those who are interested in the
gender gap talk shop - often subjects related to discussions on the list,
help each other out, and just get to know each other. We don't always talk
about gender gap - but, it's a great way to get to know like-minded
Wikimedians in a safe, laidback environment. Staff and volunteers from
around the world of all gender, identifies and ages hang out in it.

Come stop by if you desire!

It's as easy as clicking here:
http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#wikimedia-gendergap
Pick a user name. Fill out the captcha. Then a bunch of mumbo jumbo appears
on the screen and a few seconds later you'll see a list of names on the
right and the chat room on the left.

Welcome and feel free to share with anyone interested in Wikimedia and the
gender gap,

-Sarah

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Re: [Gendergap] Nudity vs Islam in Western Europe

[Sarah Stierch]

I adore all of you people, really I do.  From the bottom of my chaos
Erishttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eris_%28mythology%29loving heart...

Do you want me to try to develop a Religion-L list? Because I have no shame
in bringing out the WIKILOVE to make you people all snuggly and content with
fighting the good fight against systematic bias in Wikimedia, and that can
include religion of course.

;D

Btw, I believe Orange Mike is Quaker, if I read his previous added touch to
his signature.

I'm sorry we lost Arnaud over a conversation like this, the power of
conversation is that people do disagree, and sometimes people don't quite
like disagreement.  One bizarre thing about Wikimedia lists is that no
matter how much shit slinging (or Gods-slinging? heh! I kid.I kid...)
people generally still like each other at the end of the day.

Generally, being the key word, and like is a loosely used term.

So calm down..calm down.

Just like sex...whatever you're into..you're into..as long as you're not
forcing me into it against my own will!

xo
--Sarah




On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:26 PM, Michael J. Lowrey orangem...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 9:19 PM, Laura Hale la...@fanhistory.com wrote:
  Your religion includes  Roman Catholicism, the Church of Latter Day
  Saints, Christian Scientists, Watchtower Society, Russian Orthodox,
  Anglican, Coptic, Quakers, and Amish?
  Christianity, like Islam, has a lot of branches and you could say almost
  anything about Christianity and some sects it would be true in and others
 it
  would not.  It would be accurate to say Jesus Christ is not divine and
  Jesus Christ is divine and different sects hold this to be true.  It
 would
  also be true to say that Christianity is a driving force in the United
  States towards pushing women out of work and into the home, is opposed to
  women having access to birth control, and is opposed to abortion in all
  cases, and that women should be totally subservient to men, and that if
 you
  are moral, you don't need a doctor because Jesus will provide.  The
 opposite
  could also be said and be equally as true.   If you want to see how two
  opposite sides have aspects of the truth, look
  at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Abortion/Evidence .

 Okay, Ryan's statement was more sweepingly generalized than Carol's; I
 still consider that such sweeping more or less statements about
 other people's faiths have no place in a discussion forum such as this
 one; and I refuse to be even remotely apologetic for defending the
 religion of Martin Luther King, Ammon Hennacy, Ivan Illich, Dorothy
 Day and Norman Thomas.

 --
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[Gendergap] WikiChix

[Sarah Stierch]

Hi everyone,

I've had a few conversations, and heard/read a number of comments about the
term WikiChix. Now I've never been much of a chick, and it seems other
women tend to agree in the terminology as being a bit...hokey, old school
and not the most contemporary.

I'd like to see how we can re-develop the concept into something else. I've
been using just the simple term of Women in Wikimedia etc, but I know
that's not the most quirky or exciting sound term when it comes to trying to
be clever at a luncheon or whatever. There's also the Women of Wikimedia
but WoW...hehe... Oh is this a Warcraft meet-up?

I also joined the WikiChix mailing list over a month and ago and there has
been no activity. I'm starting to think perhaps we can retire the term for
the sake of contemporary thinking.

But, perhaps I'm just being uber and everyone thinks it's the cutest name
ever and should be kept.

Thoughts?

-Sarah



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Re: [Gendergap] wiki-women-empowerement

[Sarah Stierch]

Wonderful to hear about your work Lantuszka. I look forward to hearing more
about it - do you have any on-Wiki materials related to results, images,
reports? I'd love to share it with folks.

=)

Sarah

On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 6:43 AM, Lantuszka . lantus...@gmail.com wrote:

 Dear all,

 Last weekend we had celebrated 10th anniversary of polish Wikipedia.
 Definitly successful event gathered lot of Wikipedians, media attention as
 well as general audience.
 just to mention that among several very interesting subjects i got a chance
 to present also the issue of women and Wikipedia.
 the lecture was called female face of Wikipedia and was to sum up the
 discussions that started after February 2011 interview that Sue Gardner has
 given mentioning the gender gap problem.
 In the presentation i had briefed on many initiatives undertaken as
 immediate and later reaction to the interview (start of this mailing list,
 many local projects and workshops to empower women to become Wikieditors),
 underlined the question why it is important and what added values it brings
 as well as the question on if there is any substantial difference in the
 quality of article edited by woman or man (IMHO non what matters is the
 quality of work not really what gender is the author).
 the lecture - as all of that conference - has been shoutcasted online and
 video recorded and later the videos would be available online on free
 licences. The language of lecture was Polish. Not sure if the video would
 have subtitles in english - most probably not.

 for the upcoming 8th March we're planning again workshops for women (in
 several cities in Poland) on wiki-editing and wiki-values.

 shall you have any questions, comments about the lecture or would like to
 share your experience (good practices, weak points, suggestions for
 improvement) on workshops or other ideas especially for 8th March, you shall
 not hesitate to write and are more then welcome to share your experience.

 bests,
 Lantuszka


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Re: [Gendergap] WikiChix

[Sarah Stierch]

http://www.linuxchix.org/

I suppose it sounds a bit more badass with Linux because..well..the x's and
they have an awesome Tank Girl inspired mascot.

We just have Wikipe-tan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipe-tan

:( The personification of Wikipedia

Turns out there is a Commons-tan also, who looks more like Strawberry
Shortcake meets Raspberry Beret by Prince:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Commons-tan.png


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawberry_Shortcake
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Beret


-Sarah


On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 7:41 PM, Emily Monroe emilymonro...@gmail.comwrote:

 My older brother is a Linux nerd, but I haven't heard of the LinuxChix
 movement.

 From,
 Emily


 On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 5:15 PM, Nicole Willson 
 artisticaltru...@gmail.com wrote:

 Some of your probably already know this but the term chix references the
 LinuxChix movement. But if it's spoken and not written, it could very easily
 come off as 70s throwback.

 On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 5:56 PM, Emily Monroe emilymonro...@gmail.comwrote:

 I don't think I've heard/read chick for several years.

 From,
 Emily



 On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 8:41 AM, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 11:20 PM, Sarah Stierch 
 sarah.stie...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi everyone,
 
  I've had a few conversations, and heard/read a number of comments
 about the
  term WikiChix. Now I've never been much of a chick, and it seems
 other
  women tend to agree in the terminology as being a bit...hokey, old
 school
  and not the most contemporary.
 
  I'd like to see how we can re-develop the concept into something else.
 I've
  been using just the simple term of Women in Wikimedia etc, but I
 know
  that's not the most quirky or exciting sound term when it comes to
 trying to
  be clever at a luncheon or whatever. There's also the Women of
 Wikimedia
  but WoW...hehe... Oh is this a Warcraft meet-up?
 
  I also joined the WikiChix mailing list over a month and ago and there
 has
  been no activity. I'm starting to think perhaps we can retire the term
 for
  the sake of contemporary thinking.
 
  But, perhaps I'm just being uber and everyone thinks it's the cutest
 name
  ever and should be kept.
 
  Thoughts?

 If you contribute to Wikisource, you can become a wikisourcerer, which
 has a nice ring to it..

 --
 John Vandenberg

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[Gendergap] Kelly Wearstler

[Sarah Stierch]

A few weeks ago Kelly Wearstler was brought up on list regarding Playboy
centerfolds. An argument was taking place on her talk page between two users
- one an advocate for using the Playboy infobox with chest size as the
infobox for Wearstler, a world famous fashion and interior designer (to be
honest, I had no clue who she was until I researched her, heh).  I snuck in
and added a normal biographical infobox and Wikipedians proved the Playboy
user wrong - he had declared that the only information he could find online
was content about her being a Playboy model (which she posed for once, as a
centerfold, to pay off her student loans and start her own business).

Well, they were wrong (they must have been searching for her name and
Playboy)...and, now she's a DYK for her interior design, not her
Playboyness ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_Wearstler

Go team!

I love that we can share interesting, not so interesting, or troublesome
articles and fix them up and expand content. Just one of the reasons why
this is my favorite list 3

-Sarah

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[Gendergap] Sue's new blog

[Sarah Stierch]

http://suegardner.org/2011/09/28/on-editorial-judgment-and-empathy/


A lot of things I think about, and I'm sure a lot of other people here think
about.

I'm sure this blog won't be well received on other WMF-related mailing
lists, but, I have to admit - for me - I feel like she's speaking for me.

I don't want to be a censor, I just want people to have common sense, good
judgement, customer service and logic. And when people call *me* a censor,
it's just as offensive as the other names I've been called.

I have beencalled a prude, bitch, agitator, bore, conservative, censor,
anti-woman... someone with an agenda...etc. I can only thank you Sue for
speaking on behalf of me - when I clumsily try to express myself on
Foundation-L and fear being shot-down and having my Wiki self-esteem torn
down.I just feel like giving up.

Thanks. And I promise everyone, some of us are working towards this, and
working towards a change and a towards a conversation that is adult, logical
and respectful.

3

-Sarah



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Re: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog

[Sarah Stierch]

Well, at least this confirms that there are a 14 photos of dudes getting
their *own* rocks off on Commons! Thank god!  (Oh...speaking of
permissions...)

You also have to scroll down a bit in Google search before you come across
the article after searching sucking your own cock. The fact that the
search finds that page based on one of my favorite films, Clerks, is rather
funny.

Wait, where is Sue a liar?

-Sarah



On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 5:49 AM, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.pt wrote:


 http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2011-September/069078.html
 _
 *Béria Lima*
 Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt
 (351) 963 953 042

 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
 livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que
 estamos a fazer.*


 On 30 September 2011 00:37, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 **
 Would you like to elaborate?

 Ryan Kaldari


 On 9/29/11 4:35 PM, Béria Lima wrote:

 I think it works both ways: There you might get stomped on by people who
 disagree with the lies Sue told in the post, and here I will be stomp up for
 even mentioned that she did lied in that blog post.

 Safe environment do not exist in this case. Is safeR for supports to come
 here, and safeR for opposers to go there. That does not make any list safe,
 only shows that the POV here is different than the POV there.
 _
 *Béria Lima*
 Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt
 (351) 963 953 042

 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
 livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que
 estamos a fazer.*


 On 30 September 2011 00:25, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.comwrote:

 I'm sure there are some people on this mailing list who also disagree as
 well! We try to provide a safe haven for discussion about sensitive topics.

 But, if any of us spoke up on Foundation-L we'd be risking getting torn
 up by often heavily opinionated Foundation-L subscribers, and it gets really
 tiring :( It is also nice to have a change in opinion - for those who
 dislike the post, there are also many of that support it. Thanks for
 bringing up that a different type of conversation is taking place on
 Foundation-L! I've been following it.

 -Sarah


 On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 7:17 PM, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.ptwrote:

 ehhh, sorry for be the different, but you people are reading the thread
 about that same blog post in Foundation-l ? The opinions there seems to be
 quite different than yours.
 _
 *Béria Lima*
 Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt
 (351) 963 953 042

 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
 livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que
 estamos a fazer.*



 On 30 September 2011 00:09, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.orgwrote:

  Can I nominate Sue for the Executive Director's Barnstar? :)

 Kaldari


 On 9/29/11 4:06 PM, Amory wrote:

 I normally hate +1s, but I would like to echo this.  Really
 exceptionally well crafted, and even for people following it's a very good
 writeup.  Thank you, Sue.

 ~A


 On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 09:36, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@yahoo.comwrote:

   Thanks for the link Sarah. It's an outstanding post by Sue, and a
 courageous one, too.

  Andreas




 --- On *Thu, 29/9/11, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com* wrote:


 From: Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com
 Subject: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog
 To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects 
 gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
 Date: Thursday, 29 September, 2011, 7:47


 http://suegardner.org/2011/09/28/on-editorial-judgment-and-empathy/


 A lot of things I think about, and I'm sure a lot of other people here
 think about.

 I'm sure this blog won't be well received on other WMF-related mailing
 lists, but, I have to admit - for me - I feel like she's speaking for me.

 I don't want to be a censor, I just want people to have common sense,
 good judgement, customer service and logic. And when people call *me*a 
 censor, it's just as offensive as the other names I've been called.

 I have beencalled a prude, bitch, agitator, bore, conservative,
 censor, anti-woman... someone with an agenda...etc. I can only thank 
 you
 Sue for speaking on behalf of me - when I clumsily try to express myself 
 on
 Foundation-L and fear being shot-down and having my Wiki self-esteem 
 torn
 down.I just feel like giving up.

 Thanks. And I promise everyone, some of us are working towards this,
 and working towards a change and a towards a conversation that is adult,
 logical and respectful.

 3

 -Sarah



 --
 GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimediahttp://www.glamwiki.org
 Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American 
 Arthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch
 and
 Sarah Stierch Consulting
 *Historical, cultural  artistic research  advising.*
 --
 http://www.sarahstierch.com

Re: [Gendergap] Monitoring impact on female participation

[Sarah Stierch]

Chris, (prepare for a babble fest on data)

This is data I'm actually currently gathering as a volunteer. I have a
survey (that isn't perfect, and I wish I could have asked more..but..) I've
developed and I use a tool to monitor project contributors (
http://toolserver.org/~dispenser/cgi-bin/useractivity.py?page=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Public_art/Membersdays=365view=table_).
I also have been in personal contact with over 200 female editors over
the past week. My email box is a little overflowing...of painful stories and
lack of interest in continuing to contribute - flipped with people who are
interested in contributing again because of the email I sent them or like to
share their own ideas on women and retention with me.

The problem is that most women don't identify their gender on their account,
but I'm finding a surprisingly large amount actually identify it on their
userpage (i.e. with a userbox or their name).

Regarding outreach, I have kept tabs on our local outreach and I do follow
up on talk pages, use that tool above I showed you (that Dispenser made) to
check out project productivity (i.e. you'll see with WP:Public Art, which I
co-founded - many of the users were assigned the project for school and most
have never edited again after their school assignment, and the majority are
female (this is based on userpage data etc).  I've also seen with another
female-themed outreach event that out of about 10 only ONE female editor
still contributes since the day of the event, which was months ago.

I'm babbling here, but, I'm obsessed with this data, and someplace in my
mind I think it'll all help myself/WMF/whoever better explore how to close
the gender gap.

On another note - I'm hoping to present the data from my Women and Wikimedia
survey at the end of October with a presentation (hopefully at WMF, but they
don't know that yet...).

-Sarah


On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 6:41 AM, Chris Keating chriskeatingw...@gmail.comwrote:

 So how can we measure what impact we're having on getting women to
 participate?

 Over the next few months Wikimedia UK's very going to be adopting a rather
 more formal set of reporting procedures. I just wondered if people on this
 list had any thoughts about how we could build in some gender impact
 assessment into this reporting.

 It should be fairly easy for the Board to ask for statistics on how many of
 the people attending events are men and how many are women. Ideally we would
 also have statistics on how many people attending events *who then go on to
 edit/join/otherwise take part* available by gender. It should be even easier
 to monitor the diversity of our staff (currently we have 2, both are male)
 and Wikimedians in Residence (also currently 2, both male) and indeed the
 board (err 7 men) - hopefully these statistics will be a bit better in a
 year's time.

 Does anyone have any more thoughts on how we should approach this?

 Regards,

 Chris

 PS. Also, you might be interested to know that we've identified a £10k
 budget for broadening impact - i.e. additional funding for projects which
 are aimed at women, Scotland, Wales, ethnic or linguistic minorities - I
 think this is a good thing but we do need to make sure the remaining £500k
 isn't spent only on white Englishmen ;-)

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Re: [Gendergap] Gender neutrality template

[Sarah Stierch]

We also have a controversial template...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Controversial


I love the idea of having articles of gender concern in a one stop shopping
space. Going through the NPOV collection is long, painful and is filled with
lots of advertising articles for tech companies. Blarg

-Sarah


On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 10:21 AM, carolmoor...@verizon.net wrote:

  There are other more powerful groups that would use the precedent to
 create a template that would censor a number of articles that already are
 heavily patrolled and censored by organized groups of editors (many of them
 surely paid, not that they'd ever admit it).

 Instead use the POV template and make editors think by explaining the POV
 template on the talk page. And mention the problem on Wikiproject Feminism.

 On 9/30/2011 11:30 AM, Andreas Kolbe wrote:

   What do you think about creating a {{gendergap}} or {{GNPOV}}
 (gender-neutral point of view) template in en:WP? This could have a format
 similar to

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:NPOV

  and could use an image like

  http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Igualtat_de_sexes.svg

  The text could say something like:

  The gender neutrality of this article is disputed. Please see the
 discussion on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the
 dispute is resolved.

  Note that templates of this sort come with associated categories such as

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:NPOV_disputes_from_September_2011

  These categories can help identify articles with active disputes.

  Thoughts?

  Do we already have a template like that that I am unaware of?

  Best,
 Andreas



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Re: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog

[Sarah Stierch]

Beria - I presume you're asking me?

You shared a post replying to Kaldari asking you to explain you think Sue
Gardner is a liar.

And The only thing I got out of it is that we have a collection of
photographs of men sucking their own penises on Commons.  I was also testing
Google - they say that a large amount of visitors read that page a month,
and surely most of them probably don't search for auto-fellatio when
looking for that content of men pleasuring themselves. So, I googled
sucking my own cock since I presume a lot of men Google that content when
trying to figure out how to do so, what it looks like, etc.

When I was in high school boys used to joke about being able to do it. This
was before Google existed. So I was just using past experiences to see how
someone would stumble across the auto-fellatio page without typing
auto-fellatio.

Other than that, I never figured out why you think Sue Gardner is a liar.

I'm laughing that I just re-explained that, heh, but I hope it helps,

-Sarah




On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 4:46 AM, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.pt wrote:

 I'm sorry but whatever you took before write that mail I didn't, therefore,
 I didn't understand a word. Can you explain yourself?
 _
 *Béria Lima*
 Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt
 (351) 963 953 042

 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
 livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que
 estamos a fazer.*


 On 30 September 2011 14:27, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com wrote:

 Well, at least this confirms that there are a 14 photos of dudes getting
 their *own* rocks off on Commons! Thank god!  (Oh...speaking of
 permissions...)

 You also have to scroll down a bit in Google search before you come across
 the article after searching sucking your own cock. The fact that the
 search finds that page based on one of my favorite films, Clerks, is rather
 funny.

 Wait, where is Sue a liar?

 -Sarah




 On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 5:49 AM, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.ptwrote:


 http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2011-September/069078.html
 _
 *Béria Lima*
 Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt
 (351) 963 953 042

 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
 livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que
 estamos a fazer.*


 On 30 September 2011 00:37, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 **
 Would you like to elaborate?

 Ryan Kaldari


 On 9/29/11 4:35 PM, Béria Lima wrote:

 I think it works both ways: There you might get stomped on by people who
 disagree with the lies Sue told in the post, and here I will be stomp up 
 for
 even mentioned that she did lied in that blog post.

 Safe environment do not exist in this case. Is safeR for supports to
 come here, and safeR for opposers to go there. That does not make any list
 safe, only shows that the POV here is different than the POV there.
 _
 *Béria Lima*
 Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt
 (351) 963 953 042

 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
 livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que
 estamos a fazer.*


 On 30 September 2011 00:25, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.comwrote:

 I'm sure there are some people on this mailing list who also disagree
 as well! We try to provide a safe haven for discussion about sensitive
 topics.

 But, if any of us spoke up on Foundation-L we'd be risking getting torn
 up by often heavily opinionated Foundation-L subscribers, and it gets 
 really
 tiring :( It is also nice to have a change in opinion - for those who
 dislike the post, there are also many of that support it. Thanks for
 bringing up that a different type of conversation is taking place on
 Foundation-L! I've been following it.

 -Sarah


 On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 7:17 PM, Béria Lima 
 beria.l...@wikimedia.ptwrote:

 ehhh, sorry for be the different, but you people are reading the
 thread about that same blog post in Foundation-l ? The opinions there 
 seems
 to be quite different than yours.
 _
 *Béria Lima*
 Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt
 (351) 963 953 042

 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de
 ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que
 estamos a fazer.*



 On 30 September 2011 00:09, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.orgwrote:

  Can I nominate Sue for the Executive Director's Barnstar? :)

 Kaldari


 On 9/29/11 4:06 PM, Amory wrote:

 I normally hate +1s, but I would like to echo this.  Really
 exceptionally well crafted, and even for people following it's a very 
 good
 writeup.  Thank you, Sue.

 ~A


 On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 09:36, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@yahoo.comwrote:

   Thanks for the link Sarah. It's an outstanding post by Sue, and a
 courageous one, too.

  Andreas




 --- On *Thu, 29/9/11, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com*wrote:


 From: Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com

Re: [Gendergap] Gendergap Digest, Vol 8, Issue 76

[Sarah Stierch]

On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Maggie rockerre...@gmail.com wrote:

 @Beria
 I'm not clear what point you are trying to prove, other than the 9% of
 girls' voices don't matter. I also find it questionable that you refer to
 women as girls and don't hesitate ponder why you don't call men boys.



I notice a few people do that. I often find myself re-reading statements to
figure out if writers are indeed talking about girls (under the age 18) or
grown women.



 Offense is not the reason here, IMO. Offense barely scratches the surface.
 I can imagine that many of the people on this list are angry--they are angry
 that women are being objectified and because women are in the minority on
 the community and it's an uninviting, sometimes terribly creepy atmosphere,
 their voices do not matter.


+1 I'm pissed, to be frank.  I also notice there are is still a nice and
small amount of women who are really rude also also, especially to other
women. Like this is some territorial thing. (I'm also getting that complaint
from the survey!)



 Come on, get a fucking life.


Maggie - how come you and I haven't met yet? 3



 Nowhere did you prove that she lied in that article. You only stated how
 you disagree with her opinion. Obviously you are not part of this group for
 the interest of women, otherwise you would care about that 9%'s opinion---so
 why are you subscribing???


This is a problem we occasionally have in the gender gap room. Why hang out
and tell us that you think feminism sucks and that this is one big scheme
for special treatment and affirmative action and then hang out and wonder
why we freak the hell out on you in the IRC room. /facepalm

-Sarah




-- 
GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia http://www.glamwiki.org
Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American
Arthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch
and
Sarah Stierch Consulting
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[Gendergap] Occupy Wall Street

[Sarah Stierch]

A conversation taking place on this articles talk page about a photo of a
topless woman:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Occupy_Wall_Street#Bare-breast_photo

This is interesting to me because it's something happening *right
now*(seriously, four blocks from my apartment people are camping out!)
and there
are some unsigned contributions by readers involved and a discussion about
shock value.

-Sarah Stierch


-- 
GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia http://www.glamwiki.org
Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American
Arthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch
and
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Re: [Gendergap] Gendergap Digest, Vol 9, Issue 18

[Sarah Stierch]

If people can read it, doesn't it go against the privacy that women seek in
the list?

What about genderqueer?

-Sarah

On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Maggie rockerre...@gmail.com wrote:

 @Risker/Anne
 The Women on Wiki list, while membership is monitored, is archived and
 public--anyone can read it.
 Also trans women are absolutely accepted into this community. No question.
 I don't want to exclude any women from this group.

 --Maggie


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Re: [Gendergap] Girl Geek Dinner Volunteers

[Sarah Stierch]

Hey Fiona,

I think this is awesome. I didn't know that Girl Geek was considered
international.. I'm busy as a bee, but, I'd love to develop an edit-a-thon,
a cocktail edit-hour, a party, etc... I also like the idea that Girl Geek is
inclusive - men can attend right (if a guest of a woman?)? As someone active
in GLAM outreach, and interested in expanding that to serving as a mind the
gap ambassador (that's my new favorite terminology...) this might be a good
first opportunity for that.

I travel between DC and San Francisco and it'd be great to host an event in
both cities, or work with orgs in both. Feel free to add me into any
mailings or conversations. Thanks for taking initiative with this.

-Sarah

On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Fiona Apps wikipa...@gmail.com wrote:

  Hey guys!

 ** **

 So, I've been speaking at Girl Geek Dinner events in the UK, spreading the
 good word about what it is we do, having editing sessions and then getting
 feedback from women on why they don't edit, or if they do, how they think
 Wikipedia can be improved to be more women-friendly. It's really interesting
 to do and the women who are involved are just the most wonderful people you
 could ever meet.

 ** **

 I am emailing the head of Girl Geek Dinners at the moment to ask whether I
 can send an email out to all of the organisations asking if they would like
 to have a woman Wikipedian come and speak at their local event. Like I said,
 they're all absolutely wonderful, and the crowd size is usually about forty.
 They're a global organisation so anyone from anywhere can volunteer for
 this!

 ** **

 My question is: Is anyone interested? If you are, please do email me with
 who your local chapter is and I will make a list so that if we are invited
 to these dinners I have a repository of people to invite to speak. The
 speech is already written, the format is already arranged and the women are
 friendly. So please, come one and all!

 ** **

 Fiona /Panyd

 ** **

 P.s. We usually bring cake too. Here's coverage from the Bristol event
 http://www.bristolwireless.net/2011/08/wikipedians-meet-girl-geeks-and-eat-cake/
 

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Arthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch
and
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Re: [Gendergap] Girl Geek Dinner Volunteers

[Sarah Stierch]

One more question Fiona - is this something we'd get funding through GG for
or would we look towards chapter/WMF support?

-Sarah

On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 12:35 PM, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hey Fiona,

 I think this is awesome. I didn't know that Girl Geek was considered
 international.. I'm busy as a bee, but, I'd love to develop an edit-a-thon,
 a cocktail edit-hour, a party, etc... I also like the idea that Girl Geek is
 inclusive - men can attend right (if a guest of a woman?)? As someone active
 in GLAM outreach, and interested in expanding that to serving as a mind the
 gap ambassador (that's my new favorite terminology...) this might be a good
 first opportunity for that.

 I travel between DC and San Francisco and it'd be great to host an event in
 both cities, or work with orgs in both. Feel free to add me into any
 mailings or conversations. Thanks for taking initiative with this.

 -Sarah

 On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Fiona Apps wikipa...@gmail.com wrote:

  Hey guys!

 ** **

 So, I've been speaking at Girl Geek Dinner events in the UK, spreading the
 good word about what it is we do, having editing sessions and then getting
 feedback from women on why they don't edit, or if they do, how they think
 Wikipedia can be improved to be more women-friendly. It's really interesting
 to do and the women who are involved are just the most wonderful people you
 could ever meet.

 ** **

 I am emailing the head of Girl Geek Dinners at the moment to ask whether I
 can send an email out to all of the organisations asking if they would like
 to have a woman Wikipedian come and speak at their local event. Like I said,
 they're all absolutely wonderful, and the crowd size is usually about forty.
 They're a global organisation so anyone from anywhere can volunteer for
 this!

 ** **

 My question is: Is anyone interested? If you are, please do email me with
 who your local chapter is and I will make a list so that if we are invited
 to these dinners I have a repository of people to invite to speak. The
 speech is already written, the format is already arranged and the women are
 friendly. So please, come one and all!

 ** **

 Fiona /Panyd

 ** **

 P.s. We usually bring cake too. Here's coverage from the Bristol event
 http://www.bristolwireless.net/2011/08/wikipedians-meet-girl-geeks-and-eat-cake/
 

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Re: [Gendergap] Girl Geek Dinner Volunteers

[Sarah Stierch]

Right on - so we'll just look at funding as it arises (especially because
the States is special in regards to funding/chapters/blah). But good to
know there might be opportunities for co-funding.

Perhaps Laura might have interest in this in Australia - she posted about
grants yesterday

-Sarah

On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Fiona Apps wikipa...@gmail.com wrote:

  Hey, 

 ** **

 Depends on the organisation. Bristol was chapter support but Manchester was
 mostly support from the Girl Geeks themselves. IN summary, it is negotiable.
 

 ** **

 Fiona

 ** **

 *From:* gendergap-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:
 gendergap-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *Sarah Stierch
 *Sent:* 02 October 2011 17:39
 *To:* Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects
 *Subject:* Re: [Gendergap] Girl Geek Dinner Volunteers

 ** **

 One more question Fiona - is this something we'd get funding through GG for
 or would we look towards chapter/WMF support?

 -Sarah

 On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 12:35 PM, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Hey Fiona,

 I think this is awesome. I didn't know that Girl Geek was considered
 international.. I'm busy as a bee, but, I'd love to develop an edit-a-thon,
 a cocktail edit-hour, a party, etc... I also like the idea that Girl Geek is
 inclusive - men can attend right (if a guest of a woman?)? As someone active
 in GLAM outreach, and interested in expanding that to serving as a mind the
 gap ambassador (that's my new favorite terminology...) this might be a good
 first opportunity for that.

 I travel between DC and San Francisco and it'd be great to host an event in
 both cities, or work with orgs in both. Feel free to add me into any
 mailings or conversations. Thanks for taking initiative with this.

 -Sarah

 On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Fiona Apps wikipa...@gmail.com wrote:*
 ***

   Hey guys!

  

 So, I've been speaking at Girl Geek Dinner events in the UK, spreading the
 good word about what it is we do, having editing sessions and then getting
 feedback from women on why they don't edit, or if they do, how they think
 Wikipedia can be improved to be more women-friendly. It's really interesting
 to do and the women who are involved are just the most wonderful people you
 could ever meet.

  

 I am emailing the head of Girl Geek Dinners at the moment to ask whether I
 can send an email out to all of the organisations asking if they would like
 to have a woman Wikipedian come and speak at their local event. Like I said,
 they're all absolutely wonderful, and the crowd size is usually about forty.
 They're a global organisation so anyone from anywhere can volunteer for
 this!

  

 My question is: Is anyone interested? If you are, please do email me with
 who your local chapter is and I will make a list so that if we are invited
 to these dinners I have a repository of people to invite to speak. The
 speech is already written, the format is already arranged and the women are
 friendly. So please, come one and all!

  

 Fiona /Panyd

  

 P.s. We usually bring cake too. Here's coverage from the Bristol event
 http://www.bristolwireless.net/2011/08/wikipedians-meet-girl-geeks-and-eat-cake/
 

 ** **

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 Arthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch
 and
 Sarah Stierch Consulting

 *Historical, cultural  artistic research  advising.*
 --
 http://www.sarahstierch.com/

 ** **




 --
 GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia http://www.glamwiki.org
 Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American 
 Arthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch
 and
 Sarah Stierch Consulting

 *Historical, cultural  artistic research  advising.*
 --
 http://www.sarahstierch.com/

 ** **

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Arthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch
and
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[Gendergap] Mind the Gap Barnstar/Award - I need your help!

[Sarah Stierch]

Hi everyone,

I recently mentioned the idea of the Mind the Gap barnstar/award. The term
mind the gap is in reference to the warning set forth by the London
underground to warn people to make sure they pay attention the space between
the train door and the station platform (learn more here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_the_gap).

*Are you a designer? Or do you know a designer* who would be happy to
volunteer their time to creating an award for Wikimedians who work hard to
close the gap within Wikimedia through outreach, welcoming, standing up for
others, writing about and maintaining women's articles or related images,
and forth?

Here is the original Mind the Gap logo...which I believe is under
copyright?:http://www.earthpm.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/mind_the_gap.png

Here is a cool feminist spin on it:
http://londonstudentfeminists.blogspot.com/

Another fun piece of inspiration - the German women's movement logo of the
1970: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Womanpower_logo.svg

I tried to develop something myself, but, my own skills are rather pathetic
in regards to design. I will award you with a barnstar of your own and a
beer if I ever meet you (or a beverage of your choice) - or the designer you
recruit!! And of course fanatically praise the awesome-ness you or the
designer are through Twitter, Wikipedia, mailing lists and beyond.. 3

THANK YOU for your consideration!

-Sarah Stierch

-- 
GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia http://www.glamwiki.org
Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American
Arthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch
and
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[Gendergap] This List Part 2

[Sarah Stierch]

Hi everyone,

As Sue mentioned, I am the co-moderator for the list. Thanks Sue for
entrusting me with such.

This list has been a remarkable place for brainstorming, sharing opinions,
discussion, rabble rousing, and inspiring for many - active or not - who
subscribe. While we have had some really intense and emotional discussions,
and we have lost a few subscribers because of it, I know personally, I have
found the first safe place in the Wiki-world where I can be myself, share my
thoughts, and partner with fellow Wikimedians passionate about not only
closing the gender gap, but other subjects. This list has been highly
productive, and in the next few months we have the opportunity to develop
policy and documentation changes that will allow for a better and healthier
community within Wikimedia as a whole, and look at what we're doing - we are
already planning outreach programs, we're examining what makes this problem
exist and how representation is being handled in Wikimedia projects. We
might not be the first, but, we surely are make firsts.

On that note - this week has been high strung for sure. We've seen heads
butt and words used that aren't always the nicest (and I'm guilty at that
also!).

I think the best thing we can do to keep this list drama free (at least, in
poo-slinging manner) is to take a look at WP:Civility. While it's not
perfect, and I understand not every culture, community or Wikipedian might
agree with it - I do think that it can provide a nice skeleton for the
mailing list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Civility without having
to develop a special set of rules.

For me, *this is about respect, good manners, good conversation/argument,
and wikilove - and a revolution. And being nice is not hard,* and a good
argument (in that passionate over a bottle of wine type of way) can be
friendly and healthy - so let's remember that.

In the past week we've seen things that some might categorize as personal
attacks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks,
rudeness, disrespectful comments, and aggressive behaviours that disrupt the
project and lead to unproductive stress and conflict.  (From WP:Civility)

We're all rather mature people here, and I think we need to remember - we
are colleagues in a way - this is research, exploration, and education - the
activity and behavior that we've seen and some (including me) have
participated in over the past week is not healthy or normal for educational
environments (sorry people we're writing an encyclopedia/dictionary/media
library/etc., here!). Much of it is the type of behavior that we have been
complaining about that takes place on other mailing lists and on-Wiki.

So, let's all have a big breather and remember that some of us will
disagree, that some of us might not (always) like each other, and return to
being civil, understanding, creative and passionate about closing the gender
gap!

Thanks everyone,

Sarah

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and
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Re: [Gendergap] Mind the Gap Barnstar/Award - I need your help!

[Sarah Stierch]

Hi Anna -

Cool drawing! In my original email I was actually seeking something inspired
by the Mind the Gap theme from the London underground.

It is a cool drawing - but I do think having something more gender neutral
will be ideal for this award (you can learn more about barnstars here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Barnstars ). While she has quite the
personality (it appears an angry one, and many of us can relate to that!)
the vagina vision (ha!) might make it a little odd to give to men and for
men to give to others.

Thank you for your effort!

-Sarah Stierch

On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 4:10 AM, anna jonsson annaba...@hotmail.com wrote:

   Hi everyone,
 I'm an artist,and recently found out about this gendergap list
 amazing work you have done!
 so I send a proposal for the logo...
 Anna


  --
 Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 21:17:38 -0400
 From: sarah.stie...@gmail.com
 To: gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
 Subject: [Gendergap] Mind the Gap Barnstar/Award - I need your help!


 Hi everyone,

 I recently mentioned the idea of the Mind the Gap barnstar/award. The
 term mind the gap is in reference to the warning set forth by the London
 underground to warn people to make sure they pay attention the space between
 the train door and the station platform (learn more here:
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_the_gap).

 *Are you a designer? Or do you know a designer* who would be happy to
 volunteer their time to creating an award for Wikimedians who work hard to
 close the gap within Wikimedia through outreach, welcoming, standing up for
 others, writing about and maintaining women's articles or related images,
 and forth?

 Here is the original Mind the Gap logo...which I believe is under
 copyright?:http://www.earthpm.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/mind_the_gap.png

 Here is a cool feminist spin on it:
 http://londonstudentfeminists.blogspot.com/

 Another fun piece of inspiration - the German women's movement logo of the
 1970: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Womanpower_logo.svg

 I tried to develop something myself, but, my own skills are rather pathetic
 in regards to design. I will award you with a barnstar of your own and a
 beer if I ever meet you (or a beverage of your choice) - or the designer you
 recruit!! And of course fanatically praise the awesome-ness you or the
 designer are through Twitter, Wikipedia, mailing lists and beyond.. 3

 THANK YOU for your consideration!

 -Sarah Stierch

 --
 GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia http://www.glamwiki.org/
 Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American 
 Arthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User%3aSarahStierch
 and
 Sarah Stierch Consulting
 *Historical, cultural  artistic research  advising.*
 --
 http://www.sarahstierch.com/


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Re: [Gendergap] Gender neutrality template

[Sarah Stierch]

Just a reminder, we have a conversation started here about it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Feminism#Gender_neutrality_template

I also brought up the use of some templates used for gender studies. If we
can start contributing to the wiki about this, that'd be wonderful!

Thanks everyone for your input and Jayen466 for taking the initiative,

-Sarah

On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:52 AM, Pharos pharosofalexand...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Daniel and Elizabeth Case
 danc...@frontiernet.net wrote:
 
 
  I love the idea of having articles of gender concern in a one stop
 shopping
  space. Going through the NPOV collection is long, painful and is filled
 with
  lots of advertising articles for tech companies. Blarg
 
  -Sarah
 I agree with a gender-specific tag as well. NPOV is (by design) vague
  and, to me, not quite the fit we need as it is best applied to allegedly
  non-neutral use of language (in obvious cases of POV language, I just fix
 it
  ... there's no need to discuss). We ourselves already have {{globalize}}
 
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Globalize
 
  for the situation of articles reflecting only the experience of one
  particular region of the world or country. I don't see why gender bias
  couldn't be addressed the same way.

 I was going suggest the Globalize template as well; it's a good model
 of encouraging broader diversity (The examples and perspective in this
 article may not represent a worldwide view of the subject) without the
 boilerplate harsher tone of the stand NPOV template.

 Thanks,
 Richard
 (User:Pharos)

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[Gendergap] More Dangerous to be a Woman Than a Soldier

[Sarah Stierch]

Intense (and brief) piece from Forbes about women as victims in war in
Africa:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/shenegotiates/2011/10/04/more-dangerous-to-be-a-woman-than-a-soldier/

You'll also notice that Forbe's cites Wikipedia's article about
micro-lending!

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Re: [Gendergap] More Dangerous to be a Woman Than a Soldier

[Sarah Stierch]

Hey everyone,

I'm gathering a large collection of resources for this subject -
specifically United States Military and rape - from the incident in
Okinawa to Civil War period rape, to sexual assault and attack within the US
military against women and men.

If you wish to have access to the Dropbox I'm organizing, shoot me a message
off list.

-Sarah


On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Chris Keating chriskeatingw...@gmail.comwrote:

 On the whole I think our military history articles aren't great at dealing
 with sexual violence, on a number of dimensions.

 For instance, there was a large amount of well-documented rape and sexual
 mutiliation of Vietnamese women by U.S. forces in Vietnam, but the Vietnam
 War article doesn't cover this.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War#Women_in_Vietnam

 You will be relieved to know that is has more paragraphs devoted to the
 American nurses who served in Vietnam than to anything about Vietnamese
 women. Apparently this is because, on the American side at least, many
 men reported that having women in the field with them boosted their morale.
  Although this was not the women’s purpose, it was one positive result of
 the their service.

 I'm sure you'll agree that a bit of morale-boosting is far more worthy of
 comment than other services provided by nurses, e.g. medical care.

 Sexual violence by Americans in Vietnam is also missing from
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_rape - though of course that article does
 adequately cover http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women - evidently
 rape is better-covered when it is Asians doing the raping rather than being
 raped. One wonders why.

 ;-)





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[Gendergap] banned/blocked users - was: Re: washington dc

[Sarah Stierch]

I think it just shows another aspect of Wikimedia that I think needs a
better examination - banning and blocks and activities of those members on
other projects.  Extended blockings (1 year) and bannings mean that a user
can't participate on that one project - but they are welcome to participate
in other projects. I know many folks say Oh, assume good faith - perhaps
they'll come back after their block a better, happier, healthier
contributor! or They might be messed up online but they're not offline,
(sorry Chris!) but this has not quite been what I have seen. I've seen
members banned or blocked on en.WP go to have unhealthy and unstable
relationships with the community on other projects, continue to express rage
and even at times sociopathic behavior to WMF and editors outside of
projects, and so forth.

I've had an en.WP user stalk and verbally attack me  off of Wikipedia
(including sexual harassment on social networking sites) to the point where
I am seriously afraid that if I see this user show up at WIkimania next year
or a regional event (he's regional to where I live) I won't know if I'll be
able to stay. This user currently contributes to other projects that I am
active on and makes a point to comment only on statements I say (in certain
arenas), leave comments on my talk page, and continue to try to get my
attention in other manners, including on IRC - where the user talks to
people I consider friends about me to them in order to convince them that
I'm not an adequate contributor. As someone who survived an extremely
abusive relationship, the last thing I want to do is worry about my personal
safety and the safety of others when attending events, editing or
contributing, or just hanging out online. I didn't know how to deal with
it when it happened, and I still don't. It's an unsettling experience.

And while the survey I am preparing to wrap up confirms what the editor
survey said - most (female) users don't have problems with users escalate,
just under half have. Assuming good faith isn't always possible when anger
management, mental instability and off wiki or offline experiences just
solidify that some of these people do have problems. And while many users
often sit in the background and let the aggressive users like I've outlined
above keep on keepin' on - they continue to suffer silently, and those who
speak out actively have to suffer with even stronger and more prominent
attacks.

Sorry to get so emotional about it, it's just...really frustrating for me..

-Sarah Stierch


On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Sydney Poore sydney.po...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote:

 I am saying that you are questioning the decision of an independent body
 to select a person for membership in the same way that he questioned the WMF
 for selecting a person he did not consider appropriate. In short, he sought
 a non-project sanction for on-project activities/concerns. I do not see a
 difference between that behaviour, and members of this list seeking a
 non-project sanction (i.e., removing someone from a chapter Board of
 Directors) for on-project activities/concerns, particularly when the
 on-project concern waswell, doing exactly what seems to be proposed
 here.I agree that we need to be sensitive in general about how we discuss
 these type of issues on a public mailing list. And in this case since one
 party to the case is an active participate to this mailing list, we need to
 take extra caution that we are not only hearing one side of the story.


 That said, I don't think that it is actually a parallel comparison. We
 don't want users escalating disputes by calling employers because it can
 have loads of negative repercussions for Wikipedia as well as the person who
 is reported. But I see no reason that users shouldn't take into
 consideration whether they support having someone who has been banned on one
 WMF project in a position of trust in a WMF related organization or another
 wiki. ArbCom does the same type of thing when it vets users for positions of
 trust such as checkuser. People take into account an users past history when
 they vote for steward or WMF Board members. So, I don't have a problem with
 someone raising a concern about it in this situation.

 Sydney Poore
 User:FloNight


 Wikimedia chapters are not beholden to one specific project. There are
 hundreds of people banned or blocked on one WMF project who are active,
 respected members of other projects;  in fact, even on English Wikipedia,
 appropriate and valued work in another WMF project or area is usually
 considered a mitigating factor when a user requests review of a sanction.

 (For the record, I am a member of the Arbitration Committee that voted to
 ban the user in question, and did support a ban.)

 Risker/Anne




 On 7 October 2011 11:22, Sandra sandratordo...@gmail.com wrote:

 I dont understand what ur trying to express. Can u possibly clarify.

 Are you saying

[Gendergap] Nobel Peace Prize Winners

[Sarah Stierch]

Hi folks,

It was brought up on WP:XX that it's worth monitoring the articles of the
recent winners of the Nobel Peace Prize, which includes three women:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_Johnson_Sirleaf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leymah_Gbowee
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawakel_Karman

Amazing people to learn about also if you're interested =)

Sarah


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Re: [Gendergap] Fwd: [Ticket#2011100710013059] Pictorial Depictions

[Sarah Stierch]

Theo - From what I understand, the agent told the customer (Leilah Ozaibi)
to bring the subject up on the gender gap list.

Leilah forwarded it - she is the person who inquired to OTRS. So it's in her
control - it wasn't forwarded by an OTRS agent, be assured!

-Sarah

On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Theo10011 de10...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi

 Why is an OTRS ticket being discussed on a public mailing list? Correct me
 if I'm wrong but I thought the ticket info and address were supposed to be
 private, unless otherwise noted, no?

 Regards
 Theo

 On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 1:59 AM, leilah ozaibi email.lei...@gmail.comwrote:

 Yes, and a consistent approach would then evolve - ?


 On 7 October 2011 21:00, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote:


 You say, Would it not be more consistent to use a more balanced and
 cohesive aesthetic style across the whole subject of human reproduction
 and sexuality?

 Yes, and we do discuss that here. One train of thought is to use images
 of people as they are rather than idealized images.

 Fred


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[Gendergap] Ada Lovelace from her namesake non-profit

[Sarah Stierch]

Hi everyone,

The Ada Initiative has donated an awesome illustration of Ada
Lovelacehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Lovelaceto Wikimedia
Commons under Universal Public Domain. It's really wonderful!
(Another possible award image I'm thinking..)

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ada_Lovelace.tif

Please spread the word and thanks to the Ada
Initiativehttp://adainitiative.org/for sharing this awesome artwork
with the world.

-Sarah

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[Gendergap] Chapters - get involved - Re: washington dc

[Sarah Stierch]

+1 to that. I've voiced my opinion previously about that on the WM DC
mailing list.

Folks, if you wish to get involved with one of the two chapters in the
United States, you can learn more here if you're interested in Washington,
DC:

http://wikimediadc.org/wiki/Home

And you can join the mailing list, which is the best place to voice opinions
(and Katie did forward the message about concerns regarding the blocked user
on the board on the mailing list and no one has commented, yet.):

http://wikimediadc.org/wiki/Get_involved

And there is also Wikimedia NYC:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_New_York_City

If you live outside of the US, you can learn more about your local,
regional, or national chapter here:

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_chapters

-Sarah

On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 2:01 PM, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.orgwrote:

 **
 As a member of the DC Chapter who does not live in DC, I would suggest
 allowing proxy voting to encourage broader participation.

 Ryan Kaldari

 On 10/10/11 6:39 AM, Tiffany Smith wrote:

 Hi all,
 I'm on the DC Chapter Board with Katie.  Thanks for giving us an
 opportunity to discuss this.

  To Joanna's and others' questions (particularly in the DC area, but
 anyone's welcome!): one of the best ways to help out would be to join the
 Chapter, participate in events, and help us find ways to include more
 diverse voices in Wikipedia and other Wiki projects.  Most importantly,
 consider running for a leadership position in the future - our chapter needs
 leaders who care about these issues and actively look for opportunities to
 address them and advocate for improvement.

  More generally, Wikimedia DC looks forward to helping increase female
 participation.  Indeed, two members of the Board are women, all of our Board
 members recognize the importance of these issues, and we continue to invite
 in more women to Wiki projects through the multiple outreach projects we are
 hosting in our community.

  Please feel free to reach out to any of us directly...especially if you
 want to get involved!

  Best,
 Tiffany

 On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Joanna Monastra joanna.monas...@gmail.com
  wrote:

 I live in the DC area, but so far I have not become active in the DC
 chapter. Is there some way I could help out?

  Joanna

  On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 9:49 PM, Sandra ordonez sandratordo...@gmail.com
  wrote:

 sooo, i've heard some buzz about what is going on in the d.c. chapter,
 and I've been thinking of writing a post about it, bc frankly if the buzz is
 accurate, i'm a little disappointed. Does anyone know what is going on
 there? Thought this might be a good place to ask before I open my big mouth.


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[Gendergap] Louise Nevelson = Good Article FTW

[Sarah Stierch]

Just wanted to share that [[Louise Nevelson]] was promoted to Good Article
status today! Thanks to everyone who helped contribute to the article about
one of the grandmothers of feminist art. (She has her own plate at
the *Dinner
Party...*)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Nevelson

She was a fascinating character, and I do hope you'll enjoy reading about
her as much as I enjoyed helping to write the article.

Sarah

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Re: [Gendergap] Mind the Gap Award is here.

[Sarah Stierch]

WOW it looks so much FANCIER!

Now we just have to be passing it out to people =)

Thank you Jutta for the work, and Brandon for almost making it - and I'm
happy you did not pay for that font 3.

:D

Looks so awesome! Wee!

-Sarah

On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 11:10 PM, Jutta von Dincklage 
jutta@cancer.org.au wrote:

 Sarah,
 You are awesome! I have quickly vectorized anddropshadowed the image
 and included the updated image in the template
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Mind_the_Gap_Award.
 Could you check and ensurethat I included the correct metadata on commons?

 Lots of wikilove from Sydney!

 Jutta

  From: Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com
  To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects
  gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
  Sent: Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 17:18
  Subject: [Gendergap] Mind the Gap Award is here.
 
 
  The London Feminists Group gave permission to use their logo, however,
 it's
  only in low resolution (the person who designed it has since left the
 group).
 
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Mind_the_Gap_Award
 
  Again, I'm not a designer, so feel free to clean up the logo to the best
 of your
  ability! Book mark that template page and award away!!!
 
  -Sarah
 
 
 
  That's great! I really like that logo.
 
  Andreas
  -- next part --
  An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
  URL:
 
 http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/gendergap/attachments/20111011/91936
  3f9/attachment-0001.htm
 


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Re: [Gendergap] Commons Searches

[Sarah Stierch]

WHOA that's fascinating...weird...disturbing..something
Perhaps that's why someone asked about electric toothbrushes and cucumbers
on #wikimedia-gendergap the other day :P

-Sarah

On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 10:48 AM, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Brandon,

 On a matter that originally arose in Meta and on the Foundation list,
 but may be of interest to this list as well, do you know the answer to the
 question posed here ...

 http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/commons-l/2011-October/006290.html

 ... or do you know someone who does?

 Andreas

 --
 *From:* Brandon Harris bhar...@wikimedia.org
 *To:* Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects 
 gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
 *Sent:* Wednesday, 12 October 2011, 6:13
 *Subject:* Re: [Gendergap] Mind the Gap Award is here.

 (offlist)

 I think your efforts are perfect, and above and beyond. I don't need to

 step in here.



 On 10/11/11 10:10 PM, Jutta von Dincklage wrote:
  Brandon, I still think we need to remake the logo. This was just a quick,
 basic whiz.
  I would still love your graphic skills on this one if you can spare the
 time
 
  ... cause I am a woman and I truly appreciate amazing design
  ... and this award deserves it ;-)
 
  Ah, too fast for me!  I was about to remake the entire thing, but got
  stuck trying to find an acceptable replacement font (the real one is for
  sale at the princely sum of $299.00!).
 
 
 
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[Gendergap] User blocked for sexist comment, many disagree - it wasn't sexist.

[Sarah Stierch]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Block_review_for_Baseball_Bugs

The first unblock statement shares the link to the joke and the reprimand
by an admin on the users page telling them they can get blocked for ongoing
comments like that. Fluffernutter points out that there is a boyzone in
Wikipedia and that it's not right to mock a users gender. I do appreciate
Fluffernuter speaking up about this, I know it's not always something that
she likes to get mixed up with (so to say - as we talked about in IRC
today).

A dialogue takes place ranging from people thinking the joke wasn't sexist,
to Fluffernutter is being PC.

I don't believe that the user the joke was directed at participates in the
conversation - for all we know they might have not been offended - but, this
is just another example of how people seem to be unclear about what sexist
behavior is.

Where I've worked and attended school, it was always very clear that
behavior or comments like that were/are not prohibited, but more often than
not, people don't speak up when people behave poorly (silent victims).
Unlike on Wikipedia, where people generally do speak up - the shroud of the
internet, I suppose.

Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, an educational environment. And when people
have to start questioning Is this offensive or not? Is it sexist or not?
then clearly there is a problem with something in the culture and system.

-Sarah Stierch

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Re: [Gendergap] User blocked for sexist comment, many disagree - it wasn't sexist.

[Sarah Stierch]

I never said that I agreed or disagreed with the block. I was merely
expressing that some of the comments made in regards to the comment the
blocked user made were interesting. A nice selection of people didn't see
anything sexist about the comment, or the potential to find anything sexist
within it. I also think it's not a healthy environment when people think a
witty person is just being, well, witty and clever as always, and that it's
acceptable and perhaps doesn't require any reprimanding, perhaps on any
level.

And I do agree with Fred, the admin was perhaps just reacting to what they
saw - after some of the stories, talk page comments, and behavior of some
users - of any gender - I can see how the occasional admin jumps the gun.
It's very easy to do when you have good faith while trying to defend the
users of an environment you care so deeply about.

I have also been described as a snarky, witty, clever (among other
names) person and even to this day I open my big mouth and regret what I
say, on occasion. I also expect to be reprimanded when I'm out of line and
while that comment might not have been extreme (as Fluffernutter pointed
out), other comments have been that other users have been made on Wikipedia
and related projects, and people most often walk off without being taught
a lesson.

I think it's fascinating. But, perhaps I'm in the minority (oh wait, I am
;-)...ok..just being witty!)...

-Sarah


On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 9:22 PM, icewe...@gmail.com wrote:

 Is there any way to criticize a any action justified with sexism
 without adding to the persecution complex here? Honest question.

 Blocking a user for comments made a week prior falls a mile out of
 standard process. Blocking a user who tries to explain himself without
 begging for mercy falls a mile out of process. It was a ridiculous
 power trip by the blocking admin and was over turned as such.

 The only concerning thing in the thread was how a bogus block was
 sized upon and defended as an opportunity to crusade against the
 boyzone [sic].

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Re: [Gendergap] Commons Searches

[Sarah Stierch]

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pearl_necklaces

Wee!

On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 3:08 PM, Sydney Poore sydney.po...@gmail.comwrote:

 The first hit is a gallery page.

 From Wikipedia articles we link to Commons and limit it to galleries images
 if one exists. But with searches all the images show up.

 Sydney


 On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 2:31 PM, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.orgwrote:

 **
 One easy way to fix all of these searches is to create Gallery pages for
 these terms. If a gallery page for cucumber existed, all searches for
 cucumber would go immediately to that gallery page rather than pulling up
 random images.

 Ryan Kaldari


 On 10/12/11 3:49 PM, Andreas Kolbe wrote:

  Thanks for the link, Brandon.

  I had raised this in the image filter discussions on Foundation-l
 yesterday (as well as on
 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Diskussion:Kurier ), and it seems
 to have triggered some thought, which is all for the good.

  Here are searches that deliver similar results in Wikipedia and Commons:

  pearl necklace

  cucumber

  Zahnbürste (German for toothbrush)

  toothbrush

  electric toothbrushes

  jumping ball

  underwater

  ... and likely many, many others.

  Andreas

   --
 *From:* Brandon Harris bhar...@wikimedia.org bhar...@wikimedia.org
 *To:* gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
 *Sent:* Wednesday, 12 October 2011, 21:31
 *Subject:* Re: [Gendergap] Commons Searches


 Funnily, I just answered that question on Quora:


 http://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-second-image-returned-on-Wikimedia-Commons-when-one-searches-for-electric-toothbrush-an-image-of-a-female-masturbating


 On 10/12/11 7:48 AM, Andreas Kolbe wrote:
  Brandon,
 
  On a matter that originally arose in Meta and on the Foundation list,
  but may be of interest to this list as well, do you know the answer to
 the
  question posed here ...
 
  http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/commons-l/2011-October/006290.html
 
  ... or do you know someone who does?
 
  Andreas
 
 
 
 *From:* Brandon Harris bhar...@wikimedia.org
 *To:* Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects
 gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
 *Sent:* Wednesday, 12 October 2011, 6:13
 *Subject:* Re: [Gendergap] Mind the Gap Award is here.
 
 (offlist)
 
 I think your efforts are perfect, and above and beyond. I don't need
 to
 step in here.
 
 
 
 On 10/11/11 10:10 PM, Jutta von Dincklage wrote:
Brandon, I still think we need to remake the logo. This was just
 a quick, basic whiz.
I would still love your graphic skills on this one if you can
 spare the time
   
... cause I am a woman and I truly appreciate amazing design
... and this award deserves it ;-)
   
Ah, too fast for me! I was about to remake the entire thing, but
 got
stuck trying to find an acceptable replacement font (the real
 one is for
sale at the princely sum of $299.00!).
   
   
   
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[Gendergap] and to contrast...one stop Commons hosiery shopping!

[Sarah Stierch]

While reviewing new content for my scoop.it (
http://www.scoop.it/t/women-and-wikimedia), where I posted the recent blog
link that Pete shared..I was suggested this: (safe for work)

http://hosieryadvocate.blogspot.com/2011/10/hosiery-in-wikimedia-sexy-halloween.html

The blog writer has an entire set of tags devoted to photographs of women in
hosiery that are found on Wikipedia/Media/Commons.

Here is the blog when the writer praises Commons for it's excellent job at
categorizing hosiery.

http://hosieryadvocate.blogspot.com/2011/05/hosiery-in-wikimedia.html

Wikimedia Commons http://commons.wikimedia.org/ does a great job of
finding hosiery photos for you, when you search for hosiery, pantyhose,
tights and stockings, but there are many photos on the site, that do not
turn up with those searches. Those photos show up under different searches,
and will do just fine.

-- On a personal note, my first high end retail job, at 18, was working in
the hosiery department at Nordstroms. I became well aware of the fetish
around hosiery due to a selected clientele we had. But this gave me quite a
chuckle and brought back Early retail memories.

I'm impressed that so many men know so much about women's hosiery on
Commons, presuming that the majority of categorizers handling that
department are males(I could be wrong, but statistically...)

Sarah

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[Gendergap] From Jezebel: Men’s Rights Fight Breaks Out On Wikipedia

[Sarah Stierch]

http://jezebel.com/e_harm/

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Re: [Gendergap] Am I crazy?

[Sarah Stierch]

I also noticed the menu in the top right lists dating in the abuse
section (and activities).

I understand that abuse can take place during dating (and any other
relationship at that) but does it really merit being in the abuse section?
Next to child elderly and domestic?

If you're dating someone and you're abusing them I consider it domestic
(Intimate Partner Violence, etc.)but, I haven't sat down and read
references about 'dating abuse' or whatever (and I probably won't right
now..). Heck, the word abuse isn't even used in the dating article.

If abuse is dating and I need to stop being sarcastic and wear more bright
colors..I suppose I've been doing all of this wrong after all...(now wonder
I'm single! ;-) )

Sarah




On 25 October 2011 16:24, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com wrote:

 Wow.

 Just...wow.

 On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 9:43 PM, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.orgwrote:

  If you really want some entertainment, you should try reading the
 dating article. It includes such mind-blowing revelations as:

 * Teenagers and tweens have been described as dating.

 * There are reports that guys are asking out girls for dates by text
 messaging.

 * When young people are in school, they have a lot of access to people
 their own age, and don't need tools such as online websites or dating
 services.

 And of course lots of great gender stereotypes like:

 * During much of human history... women connived to trade beauty and sex
 for affluence and status.

 * Educated women in many countries including Italy and Russia and the
 United States often find it difficult to have a career as well as raise a
 family; many delay finding a mate and having children and wonder if they're
 too accomplished that they won't be as appealing to men.

 It also includes lots of random advice like:

 * dating at a movie is advisable only if followed by a drink afterwards.

 * men are attracted to 'curls', 'ribbons', 'bright colors', and women
 should 'avoid sarcasm.'

 * Women can use 'pseudo-infantile motions such as the head-cock' and gaze
 intensely with widened eyes and laugh often, touch, and move in ways to
 emphasize their body's roundness, such as shrugging their shoulders or sit
 hugging their knees, to mimic buttock imagery.

 I swear this stuff is in the article. I couldn't make this up!

 And to illustrate the Dating worldwide section, they use the painting
 The Rape Of The Sabines: The Abduction which shows a guy with a sword
 carrying off a scantily clad damsel in distress. I guess our editors have
 some unique ideas on dating etiquette.

 Ryan Kaldari


 On 10/24/11 6:00 PM, Gillian White wrote:

 Apart from any content problems, the article had no context. It was not
 linked to what should be regarded as its parents. And that lack of
 coherence, combined with its specific terminology made it largely
 incomprehensible to people unfamiliar with American educational systems,
 aside from its social practices. For example, it is by no means universal
 that students live in residential colleges while attending university. I had
 a go at giving it some context so readers can go from one article to the
 next (specifically, from courtship to dating to college dating) but I
 agree that it would be better if it was renamed, as the issues that are
 distinctive to dating in college/university could then be developed.

 Gillian

 On 25 October 2011 06:11, Sue Gardner sgard...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 Yeah, personally I think the subject is notable. There has been tons
 of academic research and popular history written about the history of
 dating, college dating, the invention of the 'teenager,' etc. Even
 just within the United States.

 I think I did a radio series on this once -- IIRC, Beth Bailey was a
 really great source. She wrote this fascinating book:

 http://www.amazon.com/Front-Porch-Back-Seat-Twentieth-Century/dp/0801839351
 .
 Susan J. Douglas was good too, as well as Stephanie Coontz and Barbara
 Ehrenreich. They are all American, though. Lots has been written about
 the UK too, but I'm not sure about other cultures/countries.

 Thanks,
 Sue


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 On 24 October 2011 11:16, Daniel and Elizabeth Case
  danc...@frontiernet.net wrote:
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Nathan
  Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 2:13 PM
  To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects
  Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Am I crazy?
 
  I question whether college dating deserves an article to begin with.
  If it does, which the text of the article doesn't at all establish,
  the current article has a pretty fatal case of systemic bias.
 
 
 On the surface I tend to agree, but then I read the AfD:
 
 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki

[Gendergap] Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harrasment:

[Sarah Stierch]

http://www.itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis/open-sauce/50641-female-foss-dev-quits-tech-industry-due-to-harassment



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[Gendergap] Does Wikipedia Hate Drag Queens?

[Sarah Stierch]

http://lindasimpson.org/2011/10/does-wikipedia-hate-drag-queens/

Funny little blog about the photos being used for...welldrag queens!

-Sarah

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Re: [Gendergap] the state of civility on en.wiki

[Sarah Stierch]

 problem, and
 one that the community has repeatedly failed to deal with, due to the split
 of enablers vs civility police vs people sick of seeing this guy
 mentioned on ANI again and why won't everyone just shut up. The only way to
 remove these people that has worked in the past has been via arbcom, with
 enablers screaming bloody murder the whole way.

 Pete Forsyth's strategy looks good on paper, but my feeling is that for
 this particular *type* of uncivil editor (as opposed to your garden-variety
 editor who happens to have lost his temper), an approach of something like
 you know, you're talking to real people, and your words can come across
 somewhat hurtful to those people is usually met with I'm polite to people
 I respect, and I don't respect those people, which is simply no solution at
 all. Editors who see the right to not be yelled at or name-called as a
 privilege someone has to earn, rather than as a default right, are, in my
 opinion, not well-suited to wikipedia.

 -Fluffernutter


 On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 1:06 AM, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.orgwrote:

 Earlier today, a long-standing editor was reported to AN/I for making
 personal attacks. The specific attacks were the following two posts:
 You simply display your ignorance.
 Please carry on, so everyone can see what an ignorant arse you are.

 As I had recently warned this same user for making personal attacks, and
 they have a long history of attacking other editors (blocked 4 times
 previously for personal attacks), I put a 24 hour block on their account
 for violating WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA.

 Even though this seems like a pretty minor slap on the wrist, my block
 was quickly undone by another admin and a slew of editors then
 vociferously attacked me for blocking (calling me a petty tyrant, a
 wannabe big-dick admin, etc.).

 I looked more carefully at the editor's block log and noticed that every
 one of their blocks for personal attacks had been undone by another
 admin (usually without much delay).

 This seems to say a lot about the current culture of en.wiki. Namely,
 that WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA are not taken seriously by our community (or at
 least a large percentage). As civility seems to be a recurring issue in
 gendergap discussions (and Sarah's recent survey), I was wondering what
 people's thoughts on this issue are. Has en.wiki become a toxic
 environment or am I just overreacting to normal behavior?

 Ryan Kaldari

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[Gendergap] Happy Birthday Ms. Magazine

[Sarah Stierch]

40 years ago Ms. Magazine was launched. It sold out in eight days! Great
read if you have a bit' o time (aka on the commute home!)

http://nymag.com/news/features/ms-magazine-2011-11/

-Sarah

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[Gendergap] Women celebrating...women!

[Sarah Stierch]

This month Lori Phillips, Wikipedian in Residence at the Children's Museum
of Indianapolis has a two page spread in Indianapolis Woman, Indiana's
biggest magazine dedicated to women.

http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/03afc96c#/03afc96c/16

Lori isn't on this list, so I cc'd her, but, I just wanted to share the
article with everyone here - thumbs up to Lori and and thumbs up to
Indianapolis Woman for taking notice of Lori's great work in the GLAM WIKI
movement.

No mention of gender concerns or anything like that, but, that doesn't
matter - female Wikipedians getting shown in a positive light about their
work is always needed. Congratulations Lori!

-Sarah

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[Gendergap] Suggestions on improved content for Wikimedia Commons

[Sarah Stierch]

Hi everyone,

I'm starting a list of media (specifically still photography but with
potential for video, as well) which needs improvement or doesn't exist on
Commons. Not specifically women's themes (we all love to argue what that
is), but, media that might involve women (doesn't have to be sexual in
nature) or you believe is male-dominated in certain themes and lacks in
equal gender representation.

This can include subjects or content like:


   - Contemporary female painters
   - Manicures
   - Pierced females (they are often either anthropological images or
   really poor casual/cutesy myspace style snapshots wiped off of Flickr) (for
   males, too)
   - Hairstyles
   - Clothing

Just tossing out ideas. You're welcome to post here to the list or email me
directly.

And as always, I encourage you to assist in curating Commons and uploading
quality educational content to make it a healthier and better place. The
Commons uploader is really great and I think rather cut and dry, but, if I
can ever be of any assistance in helping you learn how to use Commons and
upload content, just ask.

Right now, I believe there are upwards of only about 3-5 active open
female contributors to the project, which probably contributes to the
unhealthy atmosphere and lack of representational content.

Thanks,

Sarah


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[Gendergap] Interesting article that can use some help - Fallen woman

[Sarah Stierch]

Stumbled across this while doing a bit of assessing for projects..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_woman

Needs some work. Turns out it was originally redirected to prostitute.

-Sarah

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[Gendergap] Congratulations to WMF's Sumana Harihareswara!

[Sarah Stierch]

Hi everyone,

I want to congratulate Sumana Harihareswara, Volunteer Development
Coordinatorhttp://blog.wikimedia.org/2011/05/03/welcome-sumana-harihareswara-volunteer-development-coordinator/for
the Wikimedia Foundation, on being chosen as Femmeonomics 50 Women to
Watch in Tech.  She's listed alongside some really amazing women -
including Valerie Aurora who is a friend of this mailing list and
co-founder of the Ada Initiative. http://adainitiative.org/[1]

She's quite a voice within the community - encouraging developers and
programmers to get involved in Wikimedia and participating in conferences
like Open Source
Bridgehttp://blip.tv/open-source-bridge/open-source-bridge-2011-sumana-harihareswara-5315059.
On a personal note, Sumana has been a beam of encouragement for me, and has
helped me gain confidence in regards to my open source skills and helping
me learn more about feminist and women's roles and organizations in the
open source community. She's also great to share a bottle of wine with.

Congratulations Sumana! We'll be watching (pressures on!)

-Sarah

[1] Currently only the first ten are listed, but the rest are on the way!
http://femme-o-nomics.com/2011/10/the-50-women-to-watch-in-tech-the-first-10/

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Re: [Gendergap] Congratulations to WMF's Sumana Harihareswara!

[Sarah Stierch]

Actually, here is the link to Sumana's coverage on Femmeonomics. (It's
alphabetical!) Sorry about that!

http://femme-o-nomics.com/2011/10/top-50-women-to-watch-in-tech-part-ii/

-Sarah

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi everyone,

 I want to congratulate Sumana Harihareswara, Volunteer Development
 Coordinatorhttp://blog.wikimedia.org/2011/05/03/welcome-sumana-harihareswara-volunteer-development-coordinator/for
  the Wikimedia Foundation, on being chosen as Femmeonomics 50 Women to
 Watch in Tech.  She's listed alongside some really amazing women -
 including Valerie Aurora who is a friend of this mailing list and
 co-founder of the Ada Initiative. http://adainitiative.org/[1]

 She's quite a voice within the community - encouraging developers and
 programmers to get involved in Wikimedia and participating in conferences
 like Open Source 
 Bridgehttp://blip.tv/open-source-bridge/open-source-bridge-2011-sumana-harihareswara-5315059.
 On a personal note, Sumana has been a beam of encouragement for me, and has
 helped me gain confidence in regards to my open source skills and helping
 me learn more about feminist and women's roles and organizations in the
 open source community. She's also great to share a bottle of wine with.

 Congratulations Sumana! We'll be watching (pressures on!)

 -Sarah

 [1] Currently only the first ten are listed, but the rest are on the way!
 http://femme-o-nomics.com/2011/10/the-50-women-to-watch-in-tech-the-first-10/

 --
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 Sarah Stierch Consulting
 *Historical, cultural  artistic research  advising.*
 --
 http://www.sarahstierch.com/




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Re: [Gendergap] Please remove my comments including this one

[Sarah Stierch]

Hi Migdia,

When you signed up for this mailing list, you signed up for it on
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap which states  To
see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Gendergap
Archives and links to the archived posts.  I'm sorry you didn't see before
that what you wrote was public.

As co-moderators, myself and Sue are unable to change that - only the
people in charge of the computer systems can delete publicly archived
posts, and even then, they do not control other mailing-list archiving
websites. The best thing for *you* to do is to write some of the websites
that archive this material (see below my signature for some link
suggestions to get you started [1][2]), and write...*a lot*, elsewhere, on
the public web (other websites, mailing lists about films, etc), so that
when people do Google your name, they find the stuff you want them to see,
instead of things from this mailing list you contributed.

You can also ask in the #wikimedia-tech channel (per:
http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Remove_a_message_from_mailing_list_archive#Considerations_for_requesters)
they might be able to provide advice or possibly assist you with your
request. You can access that here:
http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#wikimedia-tech

Since you do not want to be associated with the list anymore, I am going to
take this as a request to unsubscribe. If you do wish to rejoin the mailing
list in the future, and are okay with your messages being publicly logged
and archived, you can rejoin here:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap

I hope this helps,

Sarah Stierch

[1] http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.gendergap
[2] http://www.mail-archive.com/gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org/


On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 9:20 AM, Migdia Chinea migdia.chi...@gmail.comwrote:

 I don't know how else to say in that I thought these were emails -- not
 for publication and therefore googleable.  I want my comments removed.  The
 link to which I was sent to remove items is not a working link.  I'm very
 frustrated and upset that this has happened.  THIS WILL HAVE A DELETERIOUS
 EFFECT IN MY CAREER because people will be googling my film and will read
 all of this and that outside of any context -- including nasty conjectures
 and suppositions about my character.  And even this will be published.  So
 I can't say anything else here.  My time is limited and I can't spend it
 doing something that seems like a bottomless pit.

 On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 6:08 AM, gendergap-requ...@lists.wikimedia.orgwrote:

 Send Gendergap mailing list submissions to
gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org

 To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
 or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
gendergap-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org

 You can reach the person managing the list at
gendergap-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org

 When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
 than Re: Contents of Gendergap digest...


 Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Please delete gendergaps Googleable links about me --
  (Federico Leva (Nemo))
   2. Mind the Gap(s)! Writing Styles of Female Editors on
  Wikipedia (Laura Hale)
   3. Suggestions on improved content for Wikimedia Commons
  (Sarah Stierch)
   4. Arizona Womens Heritage Trail (Sarah Stierch)
   5. Interesting article that can use some help - Fallen   woman
  (Sarah Stierch)
   6. Women Fight back Trolls (Sandra ordonez)
   7. Congratulations to WMF's Sumana Harihareswara! (Sarah Stierch)
   8. Re: Congratulations to WMF's Sumana Harihareswara! (Sarah Stierch)


 --

 Message: 1
 Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 09:05:37 +0100
 From: Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Please delete gendergaps Googleable links
about me --
 To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects
gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
 Message-ID: 4eb4ee51.1000...@gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

 Migdia Chinea, 05/11/2011 06:01:
  I'm very disturbed that my comments are now googleable.  And I guess so
  is this one I'm writing right now.  There's no context and it's just ery
  disturbing.  My short has been seen in 25 film festivals around the
  world and now it appears that any comment I make is googleable, which
  will have a deleterious effect on me in terms of getting a job.  Please
  remove all my comments.  I'm really upset -- I'm afraid of what I say.

 Until this is a public mailing list, see
 
 https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Remove_a_message_from_mailing_list_archive#Considerations_for_requesters
 

 Nemo



 --

 Message: 2
 Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 19:18:45 +1100
 From: Laura Hale la...@fanhistory.com
 Subject: [Gendergap] Mind the Gap(s)! Writing Styles of Female Editors

Re: [Gendergap] Please remove my comments including this one

[Sarah Stierch]

(Accidentally replied privately due to being cc'd on the email he sent!
This was meant for on-list)

Hi Mike,

As I just sent out re:Migdia, it states on the sign up page for the list
To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Gendergap
Archives http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/gendergap/.[1] Unless we
chose to make this a close list, that is by approved subscription only
(like internal-l[2] or cultural partners[3]), it will still not remove the
public content already on the public web. And it would require community
support for a closed list (which I don't think is necessary, personally).

It's unfortunate if this will possibly change your participation on the
list from here on out, but, since the lists inception in February it has
been a public mailing list.

-Sarah Stierch


[1] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
[2] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/Internal-l
[3] http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Contact

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Michael J. Lowrey orangem...@gmail.comwrote:

 Is there no way to undo this, Nathan? Sarah? I will readily admit that
 I DID NOT understand that posts to this list were public posts, and my
 participation would have been shaped by such an awareness.

 On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Nathan  wrote:
  Unfortunately the list is public (there is a link to public archives
  on the subscription page), and posts to it are collected by several
  services that are unrelated to Wikimedia. Since the posts are stored
  by private third parties, there is no good method for removing them.
  You can try inquiring with the various services directly, if you can
  determine who they are and how to contact them.
 
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 and clothes.
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Re: [Gendergap] Gendergap Digest, Vol 10, Issue 4

[Sarah Stierch]

Hi Audrey,

Great idea. I am hoping in the near future to work on developing a model
release form, and that might be an opportunity to explore its uses. I have
noticed that there is quite a healthy amount of Wikipedia articles (and if
it's a large list in English, it's probably the same if not longer in other
languages) related to fashion (for men and women) that lack photographs.[1]

There is also the opportunity to crop and anonyomize images, if need be,
like you suggested (or just blurring a face).

Feel free to send me any links off list of Fashion blogs that you think
might be quot;outreachable.quot; I'm hoping to gather a list of materials
like this
for some research I'm developing.

Thank you!

-Sarah

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Audrey Cormier cormier.h...@yahoo.cawrote:

 Re: Suggestions for Improved Content on Wikimedia

 I was wondering if it would be a good idea to maybe approach some of the
 folks who have fashion blogs, to see if they'd be willing to donate older
 photos. Even photos that are more than a couple of years old would be very
 useful for illustrating different fashion-related articles. There might be
 personality-right problems, though, I don't know what the legalities would
 be. A solution to that might be having the images pixelated or adding the
 bar-across-the-eyes (like in the Glamour magazine dos-and-donts feature).

 Audrey




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Re: [Gendergap] Interesting article that can use some help - Fallen woman

[Sarah Stierch]

Wow Gillian! It's like a totally different article.

Really amazing.

Seeing what you've done to that article is one of many reasons why I love
this mailing list.  :)

-Sarah

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 6:44 AM, Gillian White whiteghost@gmail.comwrote:

 You were right. It's a complicated topic and the article needed a lot of
 work. I rewrote it.
 It's not a stub class any more. Perhaps you could reassess it?

 -Gillian

 On 9 November 2011 04:26, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com wrote:

 Stumbled across this while doing a bit of assessing for projects..

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_woman

 Needs some work. Turns out it was originally redirected to prostitute.

 -Sarah

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[Gendergap] How to Get More Women in Tech in Under a Minute, Caroline Drucker

[Sarah Stierch]

Thanks Valerie for tweeting this..

How to Get More Women in Tech in Under a Minute, Caroline Drucker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUvRPmL61SI

I'm a fan.

-Sarah

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Re: [Gendergap] Gender gap session in WikiConference India 2011

[Sarah Stierch]

Thanks for sharing Bishaka.

On a side note, a quote from the article: Presently, the Wikimedia
Foundation is working on a way to include content from social media (select
tweets and status updates) as a valid citation method on Wikipedia.

I'm not familiar with this work that WMF is doing? Anyone have any insight
on this?

The stress on getting house wives to edit is really interesting to me
(per the submissions). The WikiWomenWeb reminds me of a knitting circle. :)

Did anyone record the panel discussion?

-Sarah



On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 AM, Bishakha Datta bishakhada...@gmail.comwrote:

 Coverage:
 http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report_wikiconference-day2-talks-on-getting-marginalised-communites-to-join-in_1614936

 Submissions:
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiConference_India_2011/Programs

 Best
 Bishakha

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[Gendergap] Porn stars vs. scientists

[Sarah Stierch]

A blog post by a scientist (posted via Wikipedian in Residence Daniel
Mietchen on his own blog) about how porno outweighs quality scientist
content on Wikipedia:

http://wir.okfn.org/2011/11/18/why-are-pornstars-more-notable-than-scientists-on-wikipedia/

-Sara

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[Gendergap] Occupy Gender Gap

[Sarah Stierch]

Article from The Atlantic about the gender gap in the Occupy movement.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/11/the-occupy-movements-woman-problem/248831/#.TswgjrqJ7Rk.twitter

What is Occupy's solution to its gender disparity problem? Occupy LA has a
code of conduct and a zero tolerance policy for any violence or assault. Of
course, it also lacks the ability to keep people out of the public space
the camp is in.

Sort of sounds familiar ;-)



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Re: [Gendergap] Occupy Gender Gap

[Sarah Stierch]

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 8:27 PM, Carol Moore carolmoor...@verizon.netwrote:


 The sexism in the antiglobalization and non-pacifist and non-womens
 antiwar groups (and even some of the former) was pretty bad in the
 first decade.  Not just tolerance of sexist remarks and discomfort
 with discussion sexist advances, but too much tolerance of advocacy and
 practice of violence by males. (While women who spoke out against were
 open to being accused of using violent language or being peace nazis
 for opposing such talk.)


It's nice to hear your response since I know you were active in the the
first decade as you said (hippie chick =) ). I have had people mock me
for speaking out against poor behavior and incivility on Wikipedia, for
godsake!




 Women who went along with the male consensus (or were paid employees of
 various male dominated activist organizations) were allowed to be
 leaders, spokespersons, etc.   Women who went their own way, exercised
 leadership that didn't support the male consensus or worse were against
 it would get in big trouble. (I have lots of times.  ;-)



Yes, I have seen that before, offline personally and online in observances
on Wikipedia. Reading the article, I saw certain aspects that reminded me
of Wikipedia, and your observation here is one of them. There does seem to
be a posse of folks like that on Wikipedia, and it's tough and demoralizing
at times (especially when you're the butt of their comments; which seem to
intend to make you feel like crap for the good you trying to do). I do
think it's interesting to see how the Occupy movement coincides culturally
to the Wikimedia movement.



 So I assumed the worst about most of the Occupy groups.  I was wondering
 if and how soon women would start to organize against the nonsense. Now
 I see there was at least talk in that article about them doing so in DC
 (even if link didn't bear out that assertion).


I haven't attended any gatherings or meetings, only participated in some
conversation via Twitter, and taken photographs of the encampments. I was
thinking of walking down on Thanksgiving ([[Unthanksgiving]] for some of
us) and dropping off some donations for folks. After I read this article, I
thought I might focus on personal care items for women, specifically. My
main point is to note that I haven't really kept track of how many women
are on site when I'm nearby the encampment(s). I do look forward seeing it
up close.

Both Sue and Pete have recently attended Occupy events. Has anyone else
observed anything like in this article? The past 24 hours news has been
buzzing about a sexual assault on a woman at one of the encampments here.


 I'll definitely have to wander down soon and snoop around.  Oh, boy, a
 brand new chance to be slammed as an obnoxious feminist 


I'll join you :)


-Sarah
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Sarah Stierch Consulting
*Historical, cultural  artistic research  advising.*
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Re: [Gendergap] [PRESS] Stuff.co.nz | Kiwi women are 'slobs' - Wikipedia

[Sarah Stierch]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype#Stereotypes

There we go! Plenty of links to go around.

Here is my new favorite: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurse_stereotypes

The worst part is it's probably one of the better stereotype articles in
regards to citations!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_stereotype

This also has some content that needs to be looked at. I just removed a
statement from [[Western stereotypes of West and Central Asians]] that
stated: Central Asia especially the Former Soviet-bloc, is often seen as a
backwards region, where everyone lives on subsistence farming, and everyone
has strange customs.

Uncited, of course.

-Sarah

On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.comwrote:

 I just cleaned out the entire section. The citations used (except the book
 in the men's section I haven't looked at) DON'T mention stereotype in
 anyway. It's obviously someone with original research just throwing it out
 there based on personal opinion.

 The section below also needs to be cleaned out.

 I did a brief browsing online for New Zealand stereotypes (Wikipedia is
 the first hit) and found very little of quality material for sourcing.

 I wonder how many other groups have stereotypes on their pages?

 -Sarah



 On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Sue Gardner sgard...@wikimedia.orgwrote:

 Hey folks,


 http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/beauty/6041397/Kiwi-women-are-slobs-Wikipedia

 According to Wikipedia women in New Zealand are unfeminine, wear
 masculine clothing and spend ''little time on makeup and personal
 grooming''.

 Somebody might want to take a look at this -- the article is here:
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_New_Zealand.

 This is the relevant paragraph:

 Lack of femininity: Women in New Zealand are supposedly unfeminine,
 for example wearing masculine clothing and spending little time on
 makeup and other forms of personal grooming. This can also be seen in
 a positive light; Kiwi women are portrayed as not being held back by
 ideas about being 'ladylike' and are therefore willing to take on
 'masculine' tasks such as car maintenance and playing rugby. Former
 Prime Minister Helen Clark is often seen as an embodiment of this
 stereotype, for good and bad: critics point at her lack of children
 and her choice on one occasion to meet the Queen while wearing
 trousers; supporters like her passion for mountain climbing and
 ability to hold her own in parliamentary debates.[24]

 If nobody else has time to look at it I'll try to do it sometime in
 the next few days :-)

 Thanks,
 Sue


 --

 Sue Gardner
 Executive Director
 Wikimedia Foundation

 415 839 6885 office
 415 816 9967 cell

 Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
 the sum of all knowledge.  Help us make it a reality!

 http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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 --
 http://www.glamwiki.org
 Sarah Stierch Consulting
 *Historical, cultural  artistic research  advising.*
 --
 http://www.sarahstierch.com/




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http://www.glamwiki.org
Sarah Stierch Consulting
*Historical, cultural  artistic research  advising.*
--
http://www.sarahstierch.com/
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