On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 19:28:39 -0900, Sandra Chamberlain
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear Gliberto, I wrote: I would agree that the spiritual
attributes of which humans are capable are eternally
appropriate. However, the material (scientific)
capabilities of humanity have advanced to such a
On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 21:04:37 -0800, Patti Goebel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Taking Gilberto's side on this, how do we explain that there is a need for
a new revelation if Islam (given than the writings in the Hadith and Qur'an
are accurate) is already here, and as Gilberto has shown us, there are
On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 12:53:26 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi, Gilberto,
At 07:20 AM 12/28/2004, you wrote:
I'm not sure where you started though. I was raised evangelical Christian.
So the idea of People of the Book was already rathet inclusive from my
perspective. But
On Dec 28, 2004, at 11:14 PM, Sandra Chamberlain wrote:
Dear Ron, you wrote: Since every Manifestation acted consistently
with natural law, and acted as if They were not omniscient and
omnipotent, to believe that they were Omniscient and Omnipotent means
believing that They lived their lives
Hi Ron,
But Abdu'l-Baha is not omniscient at will. To me, He did not know english that well. If you ask, why did Baha'u'llah not speakwith Browne in English, it is because he didn't know English. Does this make senseif He is omniscient at will? I think it does because I can argue that he did not
On Dec 28, 2004, at 11:21 PM, Brent Poirier wrote:
As to the omniscience of the Manifestation, it is referred to in more
than one place. For example, on the subject of Baha'u'llah's
appointment of Abdu'l-Baha as successor and interpreter of the Word,
Abdu'l-Baha writes of the omniscience of
On Dec 29, 2004, at 12:29 AM, Susan Maneck wrote:
My reply: I assume Abraham actually existed. Of course there is no
objective proof for this, but I take the Manifestations' Word for this
You mean, Their omniscience?
I take Their statements literally unless thye violate natural law. The
existence
Hi, Gilberto,
At 10:07 AM 12/29/2004, you wrote:
What is the basis for the acceptance of Islam and Christianity?
With few exceptions, modern
I've read some things about the concept of Noachides in Judaism
With few exceptions, modern Noachides are non-Jewish members of the Lubavicher
In a message dated 12/29/2004 10:43:01 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
why did
Baha'u'llah not speakwith Browne in English, it is because he didn't
know English. Does this make senseif He is omniscient at
will? I think it does because I can argue that he did not
In a message dated 12/29/2004 11:03:09 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I
take Their statements literally unless thye violate natural law. The
existence of a human who inspired the stories about Abraham does not
require violation of physical laws of the universe,
As we strive to grasp the meaning of omniscience at will, I personally think
that the starting point is that this is manifestly beyond our ability to grasp.
As in one of the quotes from the Master from SAQ, He states that there are
matters beyond the capacity of man to know. So symbols are
At 11:47 AM -0500 12/29/04, Ron Stephens wrote:
So this is an example of a statement in the Writings -- the statement
that the Manifestation was asleep on His couch and the breezes of God
awoke Him -- that should be understood symbolically.
My reply: Yes, the Manifestation's essence is the same
Occam's razor is tripping you up, Ron, instead of being helpful. As with all
other human means of knowing truth, at best it operates as a gross sieve.
I might add that William of Occam himself insisted that this 'razor' could only
be used in regards to temporal, not supernatural knowledge.
It is my understanding that there was no Maiden. Shoghi Effendi writes of
Baha'u'llah's vision of the Maiden in the Siyah-Chal that the Maiden, and all
the other images used for the earlier Manifestations of God, were symbols:
...at so critical an hour and under such appalling circumstances
Brent, you commented earlier , I think, that the main theme you saw in
teh Book of Certitude was sort of how do we recognize a Manifestation
I agree that is a main theme. I think the answer is (partly) by seeing
if what He says is logical, reasonable and also affirms the spiritual
message of
In a message dated 12/29/2004 4:15:09 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The same applies to Jesus, His sufferingsuffering on the Cross would be made meaningless if He knew all along He was God
Baha`u'llah denies being God. Muhammed denies being God. Jesus NEVER said He was
On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:50:07 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi, Gilberto,
Sorry, I accidentally sent that message before it was completed.
It's alright.
At 10:07 AM 12/29/2004, you wrote:
What is the basis for the acceptance of Islam and Christianity?
The basis for
Still, it seems to my limited mind, that if Baha'u'llah was omniscient
(even at will , whatever that means) then there woudl be no reason for
Him to agonize since He wouuld know 100% for sure that He would
triumph completely.
Dear Ron,
You are ignoring two very important points.
1) It was damn
As to the ways Baha'u'llah aids us in the Iqan to recognize the Manifestation,
and whether logic is involved.
In my personal view, one needs to approach the Iqan without preconceptions as
to what Baha'u'llah will offer as proofs. Instead, to see what He actually
presents as proofs and
Is it really that cut and dry? For instance, is the Maiden only a symbol given
to us, or was it also a symbol experienced by Baha'u'llah?
With regards, Mark A. Foster * 15 Sites: http://markfoster.net
Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburger -- Abbie Hoffman
On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:22:17 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[About the Noachides]
I actually think it makes alot of sense as a way of reading the Bible.
Mark:
As I said before, I think that almost all perspectives, at least the ones
with any longevity, have an internal
Yes, it seems to me there is usually more than one perspective
available form the Writings on a given topic. I like that. for
instance, the famous passage where Bah'u'llah sees tablet in His mind,
i do nopt thhink He actually 'sees a Tablet but He chose that phrase
and image to try to
Yes, it seems to me there is usually more than one perspective
available form the Writings on a given topic. I like that. for
instance, the famous passage where Bah'u'llah sees tablet in His mind,
i do nopt thhink He actually 'sees a Tablet but He chose that phrase
and image to try to
On Dec 29, 2004, at 11:42 PM, Susan Maneck wrote:
Yes, it seems to me there is usually more than one perspective
available form the Writings on a given topic. I like that. for
instance, the famous passage where Baha'u'llah sees tablet in His mind,
i do not think He actually 'sees a Tablet but He
Could anyone else tell me, what stands out in your mind about why you
converted. What was the thing that grabbed you adn convinced
you.
Dear Ron,
I was very young when I became a Baha'i. When I read Release the Sun and
compared it with the Gospels it seemed to me that it was the same
Here is the newsletter I promised you.
Reflections on GrowthNumber 1 March 2004Intensive Growth in
Advanced ClustersDuring the past year in a number of countries, greater
attention was given to expansionin advanced clusters. The most systematic
approach to date is emerging in Asia, where
Whoops, I see that didn't work! Let me try something else.
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Reflections on Growth
Number 1 March 2004
Intensive Growth in Advanced Clusters
During the past year in a number of countries, greater attention was given to
expansion in advanced clusters. The most systematic approach to date is
emerging in Asia, where the
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ron Stephens
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:57 PM
To: Baha'i Studies
Subject: Re: Questions about Omniscience and related matters
but He chose that phrase
and image to try to communicate His reality
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