B. Abortion
1154. Abortion Merely to Prevent the Birth of an Unwanted
Child is Strictly Forbidden in the Cause
Abortion merely to prevent the birth of an unwanted child is
strictly forbidden in the Cause. There may, however, be
instances in which an abortion would be justified by medical
The Book of Certitude starts with the strongest possible affirmation of
unity
NUMBER ONE**He recognized the truth of the signs, prophecies, and words of
Jesus, and testified that they were all of God. In this sense, neither the
person of Jesus nor His writings hath differed from that of Muhammad
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 02:18:34 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 12/25/2004 11:13:05 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
But when Bahais make a big deal out say that holy war has been
abrogated it gives the impression that somehow they are more
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 02:13:25 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 12/25/2004 9:40:49 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
[hypothetical situation of a small group of Bahai countries being
attacked by a coaliion of fundamentalist countries on
In a message dated 1/21/2005 9:40:33 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
What is the distinction you are making between "protecting" and
"defending"?
Dear Gilberto,
"Defending" could be nothing more than apologetics. I'm talking about
what could be life and
In a message dated 1/21/2005 9:44:56 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
"So whatever it means to "blot out holy war" it doesn't
absolutelyexclude the possibility that Bahais would take up arms to
defendthemselves and fight non-Bahais."
Dear Gilberto,
They
In a message dated 1/21/2005 11:20:38 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Dear Gilberto,
They cannot do so in defense of their religion. They might be able to do so in defense of their country under these circumstances, but I can't say for sure.
Waging war in defense of
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 12:16:25 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/21/2005 9:40:43 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
What practice is a part of proper holy war (not its distortions)
which would be absolutely ruled out by the Bahai concepts of
In a message dated 1/21/2005 11:29:15 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
"Defending" could be nothing more than apologetics. I could actually
say the same about jihad then. There is a hadithwhich states: ""The best
jihad is speaking the truth to an
unjustruler."
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 12:19:31 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/21/2005 9:44:56 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
So whatever it means to blot out holy war it doesn't absolutely
exclude the possibility that Bahais would take up arms to
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 12:43:07 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/21/2005 11:29:15 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Defending could be nothing more than apologetics.
I could actually say the same about jihad then. There is a hadith
In a message dated 1/21/2005 12:00:39 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
You are allowed to apply capital punishment according to yourreligion. You are allowed to engage in "collective security" in yourreligion. You are allowed to engage in "righteous warfare" in yourreligion.
1903, not 1906.
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 12/25/2004 1:20:49 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I think I would define H.ikmat a trifle differently in a Bahá'í
reference.
Perhaps Susan or Khazeh could offer a better definition?
In a message dated 1/21/2005 11:40:20 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Where did the word 'righteous' come from? In "Bahaullah
and the New Era" there is an entire chapter called"Righteous
Warfare"
Okay. The term 'righteous warfare' occurs nowhere in the
In a message dated 1/21/2005 11:58:08 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Pretty much every discussion of physical jihad I've seen from
atraditional/orthodox persepctive talks about it in the context
ofdefending Muslim lands and lives
Dear Gilberto,
When
In a message dated 1/21/2005 12:00:16 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
"You are allowed to apply capital punishment according to
yourreligion. You are allowed to engage in "collective security" in
yourreligion. You are allowed to engage in "righteous warfare" in
In a message dated 1/21/2005 12:15:27 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
1903,
not 1906.
Oops, sorry. I always associate with the Constitutional Revolution.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as:
JS: LOL, yeah, Abdu'l-Baha clarifies that it doesn't change, and at the same time, it actually DOES change in some ways (contradictory and 'having-the-cake-and-eating-it simultaneously', I realize). To prevent people from getting too attached to a name (i.e. "Jesus", "Qur'an", "Muhammad",
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 11:37:38 -0800 (PST), JS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
JS: LOL, yeah, Abdu'l-Baha clarifies that it doesn't change, and at
the
same time, it actually DOES change in some ways (contradictory and
'having-the-cake-and-eating-it simultaneously', I realize). To
prevent
I think Ruhi was God-sent for my 16 yr old son. He used to be a shy, introvert
teenager with a wishy-washy knowledge of the Faith, and when he came to
meetings almost never said anything or was not engaged in any other way. He
went through all the Ruhi books and is now an enormously confident
In a message dated 1/21/2005 2:04:30 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
As for me, I sat and suffered through one session of Ruhi and was ready to putgun to my head after that. So it may not be for an old dog like me, but as Isaid it was God-sent for my son.Regards, Ahang.
My
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:42:57 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/21/2005 11:40:20 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Where did the word 'righteous' come from?
In Bahaullah and the New Era there is an entire chapter called
Righteous
In a message dated 1/21/2005 2:17:16 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Gilberto:Why isn't "Bahaullah and the New Era" "the writings"? That section also quotes a passage from Abdul-Baha which elaborates onthe concept in interesting ways as well.
No, it is not. It is by a Baha`i
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:51:39 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Defending could be nothing more than apologetics.
Gilberto:
I could actually say the same about jihad then. There is a hadith
which states: The best jihad is speaking the truth to an unjust
ruler.
Dear Gilberto,
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:50:16 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/21/2005 11:58:08 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
So I honestly think it is difficult to clearly distinguish between
defending the religion and defending the country.
Susan:
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:11:11 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/21/2005 12:00:39 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
You are allowed to apply capital punishment according to your
religion. You are allowed to engage in collective security in
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:25:52 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/21/2005 2:21:10 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If you are just arguing about the names that seems an odd
distinction to make. Actions are either right or wrong, regardless of
Secondly, the people being
protected would also definitely include the non-Muslims who were
members of the community. (That's what the jizya is for to begin
with). So perhaps I should have been clearer but the state would have
the obligation to protect the lives of all its citizens regardless
In a message dated 1/21/2005 2:33:49 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
So are you saying that Christ already taught non-resistance. But thenunder Muhammad's dispensation the community progressed past it? Thenthe Bahai dispensation went backwards to what Christ taught?
"
In a message dated 1/21/2005 9:40:41 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
What practice is a part of proper "holy war" (not its distortions)which would be absolutely ruled out by the Bahai concepts ofcollective security, "righteous" warfare, and hikmat.In particular, why would
In a message dated 1/21/2005 2:04:55 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
As for
me, I sat and suffered through one session of Ruhi and was ready to putgun
to my head after that. So it may not be for an old dog like me, but as
Isaid it was God-sent for my son.
Dear
In a message dated 1/21/2005 2:17:16 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Why isn't "Bahaullah and the New Era" "the writings"?
Dear Gilberto,
By "Writings" I mean our scriptures; what we consider the Word of God.
Baha'u'llah and the New Era is just a piece
In a message dated 1/21/2005 2:20:48 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If
you are just arguing about the "names" that seems an odddistinction to
make.
I am not at all arguing about names and I have a difficult time figuring
out why you find this so hard to grasp.
Sandra,
They are all somewhat similar to the statement I had read, but the one I am
talking about is more specific. It precisely says that a woman must make the
decision in consultation with her physician. I recall that a friend of mine,
after reading it, wondered whether men were given any
Gilberto,
At 09:24 AM 1/21/2005, you wrote:
That's really not funny.
By the religion which immediately preceded the Baha'i Faith, I think that Susan
had in mind the Babi Faith, not Islam.
Regards, Mark A. Foster http://markfoster.net [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sacred cows make the tastiest
Did the Bab wage Jihad against all the non-believers or just against Muslims?"Mark A. Foster" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto,At 09:24 AM 1/21/2005, you wrote:That's really not funny.By the religion which immediately preceded the Baha'i Faith, I think that Susan had in mind the Babi Faith, not
Gilberto,
At 09:51 AM 1/21/2005, you wrote:
Didn't Mark say something earlier which would imply that the followers of
Meher Baba have a somewhat stronger sense of unity.
No, what I said was that the followers of Meher Baba believe that Buddha,
Jesus, Muhammad, Meher Baba, etc. are
Did the Bab wage Jihad against all the non-believers or just against
Muslims?
Well, all of the battles, including the one at Shaykh Tabarsi, were defensive
actions against attacks by Muslims.
Regards, Mark A. Foster http://markfoster.net [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sacred cows make the tastiest
"Mark A. Foster" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Did the Bab wage Jihad against all the non-believers or just against Muslims?Well, all of the battles, including the one at Shaykh Tabarsi, were defensive actions against attacks by Muslims. JS:
Now, for clarification, can you tell us, if the Baha'is were
Now, for clarification, can you tell us, if the Baha'is were trapped at
Shaykh Tabarsi today, and Muslims attacked them, would the Baha'is be allowed
to fight back, according to the Law of Baha'u'llah?
I'll answer it myself... No.
I agree.
Regards, Mark A. Foster http://markfoster.net
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:17:23 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto,
At 09:24 AM 1/21/2005, you wrote:
That's really not funny.
By the religion which immediately preceded the Baha'i Faith, I think that
Susan had in mind the Babi Faith, not Islam.
My mistake.
Peace
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:50:11 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto,
At 01:48 PM 1/21/2005, you wrote:
And so correct me if I'm wrong, but that would suggest that Bahais are not
attached to Bahaullah in a bad way, but Muslims are attached to Muhammad.
Whether the
Dear Friends,
Can someone please point out where any type of warfare is condoned?
It occurs to this mind that many statements have been made opposing war,
such as
In the new age Baha'o'llah has prohibited war.
(Abdu'l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 45)
Every war is against the good
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:28:14 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto,
At 09:51 AM 1/21/2005, you wrote:
Didn't Mark say something earlier which would imply that the followers of
Meher Baba have a somewhat stronger sense of unity.
No, what I said was that the followers of
James,
At 05:41 PM 1/21/2005, you wrote:
Can someone please point out where any type of warfare is condoned?
If, for example, a high-minded sovereign marshals his troops to block the
onset of the insurgent and the aggressor, or again, if he takes the field and
distinguishes himself in a
Hi, Gilberto,
At 05:43 PM 1/21/2005, you wrote:
I don't see what you didn't like about how I characterized what you said.
Seeing the souls of the various figures as one instead of many is exactly
what I had in mind by stronger sense of unity.
Unity, in the sense of tawhid, is the prerogative
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 18:12:59 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Beginning with the policing of agreements worked out between hostile states,
the principle of collective action in defence of peace gradually took on the
form of military interventions such as that of the Gulf War,
In a message dated 1/21/2005 5:55:31 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
would certainlyadmit that it has the potential to be abused
(virtually all rules do)but jizya actually is ordained in the Quran, so if
you really think itis necessarily a form of harrassment
In a message dated 1/21/2005 5:48:18 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I once knew someone who told me he only accepted Muhammad on the
authority of Baha'u'llah.
Dear Mark,
I think most of us did at first.
warmest, Susan
In a message dated 1/21/2005 6:46:21 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
So does
the UHJ believe the first Gulf War was justified? Are thereother official
Bahai statements related to Gulf War I, and Gulf
WarII?
Dear Gilberto,
That's the only one and it wasn't the
"jizya actually is ordained in the Quran, so if you really think itis necessarily a form of harrassment and tyranny then you should takeit up with the author"
Yes, this work of theAuthor is well beyond the expiry date.
Planned obsolescence (also built-in obsolescence (UK)) is the conscious
Dear James,
A number of your quotations are taken from Divine Philosophy which more or
less falls into the category of pilgrim's notes. But I think your understanding
is both right and wrong. The very purpose of the Baha'i Faith is to bring about
the unity of humanity and by it, an end to
In a message dated 1/21/2005 5:18:35 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
By the religion which immediately preceded the Baha'i Faith, I think
that Susan had in mind the Babi Faith, not Islam.My
mistake.
Actually, I was thinking of both.
In a message dated 1/21/2005 5:09:46 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Now, for clarification, can you tell us, if the Baha'is were trapped at
Shaykh Tabarsi today, and Muslims attacked them, would the Baha'is be allowed
to fight back, according to the Law of
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:47:46 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto,
At 05:36 PM 1/21/2005, you wrote:
Or previous ones. I mean, I'm sure that there are many Bahais, especially
in the West, who for whatever reason accept Bahaullah because they like his
wrapper so to
In a message dated 1/21/2005 4:26:17 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Did the
Bab wage Jihad against all the non-believers or just against
Muslims?
The Bab never waged jihad. His followers fought in His absence when He was
imprisoned.
warmest, Susan
In a message dated 1/21/2005 4:08:46 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
It
precisely says that a woman must make the decision in consultation with her
physician. I recall that a friend of mine, after reading it, wondered whether
men were given any rights in this
Gilberto,
At 06:45 PM 1/21/2005, you wrote:
So does the UHJ believe the first Gulf War was justified? Are there other
official Bahai statements related to Gulf War I, and Gulf War II? What do
they say?
The House of Justice made an earlier statement in which it called the Gulf War
just. I
In a message dated 1/21/2005 3:32:19 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
It
sparks a fire in youth in my estimation, and those who are not well deepened.
Those who spent years doing it the old way mostly find it redundant and
repetitive as well as having heard it
Hi, Susan,
At 06:46 PM 1/21/2005, you wrote:
I think most of us did at first.
Yes, but what I meant is that this particular person said that he *only*
accepted Muhammad on Baha'u'llah's authority. He despised Islam, the Qur'an,
etc.
Regards, Mark A. Foster http://markfoster.net [EMAIL
In a message dated 12/26/2004 9:40:52 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
That
message was, of course, written almost 4 1/2 years ago. At that time, I would
have agreed with Terry. (In fact, we discussed it.) I don't know what his
views are now.
I'm wondering about
In a message dated 12/26/2004 9:40:52 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
That
message was, of course, written almost 4 1/2 years ago. At that time, I would
have agreed with Terry. (In fact, we discussed it.) I don't know what his
views are now.
Dear Mark,
As I
Hi, Susan,
At 06:49 PM 1/21/2005, you wrote:
They weren't exactly saying that the Gulf War was justified, but that it
represented the kind of collective security which the world needed to move
towards.
In an earlier message, the House of Justice did refer to the Gulf War as just.
Regards,
In a message dated 12/26/2004 1:02:54 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
And is that really how
the rule is stated? So you can get an abortion if your doctor says its okay?
Or do they have to be medically necessary?
I"t is left up to the individual to make
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:51:00 -0800 (PST), JS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
jizya actually is ordained in the Quran, so if you really think it
is necessarily a form of harrassment and tyranny then you should take
it up with the author
Yes, this work of the Author is well beyond the expiry
Gilberto,
At 06:55 PM 1/21/2005, you wrote:
Yes, me too. So what does that mean? I mean, I really don't know enough about
Bahaullah to either like or dislike him. I'm comfortable keeping my
discussions here on the level of beliefs and practices for the moment. But a
Bahai who has looked at the
In a message dated 1/21/2005 7:16:12 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
You don't need to say it. I realized a very long time ago that Bahaisthink of previous religions as spoiled milk.PeaceGilberto
Please do not lump us in a group like that.
Scott
Susan,
At 06:55 PM 1/21/2005, you wrote:
A controversial question. Raising a black flag in Khurasan was bound to
provoke violence. That's how the rebellion against the Umayyad Dynasty was
launched, after all.
I guess it would depend on whether one interprets it as a provocation or as
taking a
Susan,
At 06:57 PM 1/21/2005, you wrote:
I'm pretty sure the statement you have in mind is from the House, not the
Guardian, Mark.
I think you are right, but, either way, I wish I could find it. ;-)
Regards, Mark A. Foster http://markfoster.net [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sacred cows make the
Gilberto,
At 07:11 PM 1/21/2005, you wrote:
Which research?
Here is some of it:
http://www.salsabil.org/papers/maryami.htm
Regards, Mark A. Foster http://markfoster.net [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburger. Abbie Hoffman
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 20:17:20 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/21/2005 7:16:12 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
You don't need to say it. I realized a very long time ago that Bahais
think of previous religions as spoiled milk.
Peace
Gilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 20:17:20 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: In a message dated 1/21/2005 7:16:12 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You don't need to say it. I realized a very long time ago that Bahais think of previous
In a message dated 1/21/2005 9:09:16 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Please do not lump us in a group like that.Sorry. I was being short-tempered.-Gilberto
Its easy to get short-tempered in an all written forum. We cannot see each other's faces, judge each other's body
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 19:29:15 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Susan,
At 07:03 PM 1/21/2005, you wrote:
I suspect if he were acquianted with Vahid Brown's research on this
question he would change his mind.
Yes, all versions of perennialism I am familiar with (Huxley's,
Do you think the triumphalism is an intrinsic consequence of any
particular ideology or is it just an attitude which may or may not be
present in a person.
I think there are some ideologies which feed that attitude.
__
You are subscribed to
Susan:
"Exactly. And we do need to keep in mind that Ruhi wasn't designed for us,
it was designed to consolidate mass enrollments."
Dear Susan,
Why then are we encouraged and sometimes sort of forced to
enroll for these courses? Is it just to increase statistics?
Regards,
Firouz
Why then are we encouraged and sometimes sort of forced to enroll for these
courses? Is it just to increase statistics?
Nope. So we can tutor them.
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You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
To unsubscribe,
Gilberto,
At 09:19 PM 1/21/2005, you wrote:
Do you think the triumphalism is an intrinsic consequence of any particular
ideology or is it just an attitude which may or may not be present in a
person.
All the perennialisms I have observed are deductive systems. They begin with
certain first
Which research?
Dear Gilberto,
Vahid's done some interesting stuff on the background of perennial thought
which I think we have discussed before. However, Mark Sedgwick someone beat
him to the punch as far getting this something published:
http://www.aucegypt.edu/faculty/sedgwick/trad/book.htm
So where did the document come from?
Dear Gilberto,
It comes from the World Centre. It is just that the House didn't write it
directly.
warmest, Susan
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On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 22:50:03 -0600, Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So where did the document come from?
Dear Gilberto,
It comes from the World Centre. It is just that the House didn't write it
directly.
So does that mean it is infallibly true and authoritative?
Peace
Gilberto
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