Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts

2020-05-04 Thread tomas
On Mon, May 04, 2020 at 05:47:16AM -0400, Dan Purgert wrote: > On May 03, 2020, Florian Weimer wrote: > > [...] > > What I find concerning is that Discourse (the web application) does > > not clearly communicate how it shares the data it collects about me > > with users. For example, it seems to

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts

2020-05-04 Thread Dan Purgert
On May 03, 2020, Florian Weimer wrote: > [...] > What I find concerning is that Discourse (the web application) does > not clearly communicate how it shares the data it collects about me > with users. For example, it seems to notify other users that I'm not > active on the site, next to my posts,

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts

2020-05-03 Thread Florian Weimer
* Ansgar: > I'm not concerned about marking messages read after some time and > keeping the view time in ephermal storage for that. But that's not > what Discourse does: as described elsewhere it stores all read times > persistently on the server; that would not be neccessary for marking > posts

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts

2020-04-24 Thread MJ Ray
Neil McGovern wrote: > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 12:47:06PM +0200, Ansgar wrote: > > I'm not concerned about marking messages read after some time and > > keeping the view time in ephermal storage for that. But that's not > > what Discourse does: as described elsewhere it stores all read times > >

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-15 Thread Marco Möller
On 14.04.20 16:01, Marco Möller wrote: (...) If Discourse could be configured towards these ideas, then it would be a win for the communication (...) Following the discussion, having investigated more how discourse actually can be used, and also having received and read helpful answers on

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts

2020-04-15 Thread Neil McGovern
On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 03:40:40PM +0200, Ansgar wrote: > On Wed, 2020-04-15 at 08:56 +0100, Neil McGovern wrote: > > The point of the trust levels is to distribute the moderation. Whatever > > metric we come up with, it will involve a certain amount of actually > > using the site, and engaging

Re: "From" at beginning of line gets escaped (was: Re: Testing Discourse for Debian)

2020-04-15 Thread rhkramer
The following is the text of an email that got generated as I tried to make a comment on the bug report you filed. I'm not sure how soon the comment might appear on the bug report, so I decided to add it here as a reply. I guess I should add one thing, that I presume the people who deal with

"From" at beginning of line gets escaped (was: Re: Testing Discourse for Debian)

2020-04-15 Thread Ansgar
On Wed, 2020-04-15 at 20:18 +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: > as we discuss about proper quoting, I would like to take the opportunity > of Ansgar's email to note that each time a line starts with "From" in a > plain text email, something in the pipeline that delivers emails (at > least to me)

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts

2020-04-15 Thread rhkramer
I reordered the quoted paragraphs to make it more consistent with bottom posting. On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 07:24:03 AM Neil McGovern wrote: > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 12:47:06PM +0200, Ansgar wrote: > No, but it is required for things like knowing which posts in a topic is > popular, so

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts

2020-04-15 Thread rhkramer
On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 03:56:28 AM Neil McGovern wrote: > Could you explain this please? I feel that having a notification (which > only appears for people who regularly interact with the site) that > someone is new to the community to be useful. I am probably going to say more about this

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts

2020-04-15 Thread Ansgar
age Read Time: 5.321 Imperial minutes, 4.323 metric minutes Total Read Time:6.917 flock Imperial minutes, 5.620 fmm Author's Read Time: Yes #Cats In Author's Room: ~2 Suggested topics: - Debian is testing Discourse [User] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/04/msg00516.html -

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts

2020-04-15 Thread Martin
On 2020-04-15 11:21, Neil McGovern wrote: > Yes. You can subscribe to categories, topics and tags (or combinations > of them). For example, if you only ever care about m68k, you could watch > #m68k and get a notification email for that across all categories. This is pretty nice! Thank you! (Also

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts

2020-04-15 Thread Neil McGovern
On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 12:47:06PM +0200, Ansgar wrote: > I'm not concerned about marking messages read after some time and > keeping the view time in ephermal storage for that. But that's not > what Discourse does: as described elsewhere it stores all read times > persistently on the server;

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-15 Thread Charles Plessy
Le Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 12:47:06PM +0200, Ansgar a écrit : > > >From my tries with Discourse, it just silently stripped all quotes out > from the reply. Hello everybody, as we discuss about proper quoting, I would like to take the opportunity of Ansgar's email to note that each time a line

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts

2020-04-15 Thread Ansgar
On Wed, 2020-04-15 at 11:21 +0100, Neil McGovern wrote: > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 11:08:45AM +0200, Martin wrote: > > On 2020-04-15 08:56, Neil McGovern wrote: > > > Could I point out that the email program you wrote this message > > > in is > > > doing the same? > > > > Could you elaborate on

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts

2020-04-15 Thread Neil McGovern
On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 11:08:45AM +0200, Martin wrote: > On 2020-04-15 08:56, Neil McGovern wrote: > > Could I point out that the email program you wrote this message in is > > doing the same? > > Could you elaborate on that? Ansgar seems to use > "User-Agent: Evolution 3.36.1-1" > (While I'm

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts

2020-04-15 Thread Martin
On 2020-04-15 08:56, Neil McGovern wrote: > Could I point out that the email program you wrote this message in is > doing the same? Could you elaborate on that? Ansgar seems to use "User-Agent: Evolution 3.36.1-1" (While I'm using mutt.) How do such UAs track reading behaviour? > Quoting does

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts

2020-04-15 Thread Neil McGovern
Hi Ansgar, To start with, I want to say that I found your mail to be quite frustrating. I feel it may have been more constructive to phrase concerns as questions, rather than stating them as facts, and ascribing motivations or inferances which simply aren't correct. That said, I'll try and reply

Real Name was:Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-14 Thread Scott Kitterman
On April 14, 2020 11:12:10 PM UTC, Sean Whitton wrote: >Hello Raphael, > >On Tue 14 Apr 2020 at 12:28PM +02, Raphael Hertzog wrote: ... > >> He was also concerned with the need to do all work under our real >> identity. Looking into contributors.d.o and db.debian.org, he might >> have

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-14 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello Raphael, On Tue 14 Apr 2020 at 12:28PM +02, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > I remember a discussion with Ryan Murray (who was very involved a long > time ago!) and he expressed concerns over our use of email and > GPG. And the fact that you must share your email to everybody to be > able to take

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-14 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Tue 14 Apr 2020 at 01:49PM +01, Neil McGovern wrote: > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 02:16:48PM -0700, Sean Whitton wrote: >> Do you think that would end up capturing all discussions, with possibly >> a few weeks delay? Is it typical in Discourse use to lock/close threads >> after a certain

Re: tracking our readers? (Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts)

2020-04-14 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello Karsten, On Tue 14 Apr 2020 at 06:42PM +02, Karsten Merker wrote: > As a personal note: compared to my email client I find the > discourse web interface very unwieldly and impractical (like most > web forums). This is of course a matter of taste and personal > preferences, but exactly

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-14 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello Andrei, On Tue 14 Apr 2020 at 09:21AM +03, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Lu, 13 apr 20, 14:23:30, Sean Whitton wrote: >> >> (a) would more clearly benefit from having more structure. It is less >> clear that (b) would benefit, and (b) benefits from the posting of diffs >> and replying using

Re: tracking our readers? (Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts)

2020-04-14 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Tue 14 Apr 2020 at 08:22AM +00, Holger Levsen wrote: > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 02:31:23PM -0700, Sean Whitton wrote: >> > The trust system gives me no trust at all. It is very closely bound to >> > participation over the web interface, monitors the reading frequency and >> > time >> >

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-14 Thread Martin
On 2020-04-14 15:49, Neil McGovern wrote: > If you're using the stable branch of Discourse, then the API is stable > :) Ha! ;-) This leads a little bit off-topic here, maybe it's better off-list, on #956705, or elsewhere: Can I expect API stability cycles of Discourse long enough, that it were

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-14 Thread Neil McGovern
On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 03:57:08PM +0200, Martin wrote: > Is the API stable in general, or only this particular function? If you're using the stable branch of Discourse, then the API is stable :) > I ask in the context of #956705: "ITP: python-pydiscourse -- > Python library for working with

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts

2020-04-14 Thread Sam Hartman
I'd like to echo the comment that requiring people to regularly visit the site does not seem to meet Debian's needs very well for trust. I'd imagine there are a number of people in our community who will tend to read things via email, but who would only visit the site to help moderate--splitting

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-14 Thread Marco Möller
In order to improve the communication methods, the question is, if aspired improvements could be implemented for the email lists or not. If they cannot be implemented for the email lists, then improvements are unlikely to ever happen unless moving on to another communication platform where the

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-14 Thread Martin
On 2020-04-14 13:49, Neil McGovern wrote: > I suspect the API should be stable enough for this, if people wanted to > store discussions in a form that isn't discourse itself. Is the API stable in general, or only this particular function? I ask in the context of #956705: "ITP: python-pydiscourse

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts

2020-04-14 Thread Martin
On 2020-04-14 14:30, Ansgar wrote: > That said I'm in principle fine with trying a mostly > web-only system; just like GitLab also really needs to be used over the > web. I'm a salsa.d.o user of course, but how often would I login into the web interface? Once a month? 99 % of the interaction is

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-14 Thread Neil McGovern
On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 02:16:48PM -0700, Sean Whitton wrote: > Do you think that would end up capturing all discussions, with possibly > a few weeks delay? Is it typical in Discourse use to lock/close threads > after a certain point? And do you think the API is stable enough for us > to start

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts

2020-04-14 Thread Ansgar
On Mon, 2020-04-13 at 19:56 +0100, Neil McGovern wrote: > Instead of explaining it here, please have a > read of the following: > https://blog.discourse.org/2018/06/understanding-discourse-trust-levels/ > The short version is that the more a particular account interacts with > the community in a

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts

2020-04-14 Thread rhkramer
On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 06:09:48 AM Dan Purgert wrote: > On Apr 14, 2020, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: ... > > This is just the ultra-liberal way to see things. He who owns the > > resources has absolute say on their use. > > "ultra-liberal" -- I don't think that word means what you think it

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts

2020-04-14 Thread Christian Kastner
On 2020-04-13 23:33, Andy Smith wrote: > Not to speak for Neil, but it's generally argued that private > entities cannot censor, because a nation/state can tell you that you > cannot express an opinion using your own resources. By contrast a > private entity like Debian can only tell you that you

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-14 Thread Raphael Hertzog
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020, Steve McIntyre wrote: > Hell, there's a strong confirmation bias here too - how many > potentially great future developers have we lost at a very early stage > because our email-centric workflow didn't appeal to them initially? We already lost existing Debian developers due

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts

2020-04-14 Thread Dan Purgert
On Apr 14, 2020, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 09:33:20PM +, Andy Smith wrote: > > [...] > > > Not to speak for Neil, but it's generally argued that private > > entities cannot censor, because a nation/state can tell you that you > > cannot express an opinion using your

Re: tracking our readers? (Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts)

2020-04-14 Thread Dan Purgert
On Apr 14, 2020, Holger Levsen wrote: > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 02:31:23PM -0700, Sean Whitton wrote: > > > The trust system gives me no trust at all. It is very closely bound to > > > participation over the web interface, monitors the reading frequency and > > > time > > > spent on reading by

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts

2020-04-14 Thread Andrei POPESCU
On Lu, 13 apr 20, 19:56:28, Neil McGovern wrote: > > Firstly, trust levels. These are the levels of "trust" that the platform > has in any particular user. Instead of explaining it here, please have a > read of the following: >

Re: tracking our readers? (Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts)

2020-04-14 Thread tomas
On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 08:22:22AM +, Holger Levsen wrote: > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 02:31:23PM -0700, Sean Whitton wrote: > > > The trust system gives me no trust at all. It is very closely bound to > > > participation over the web interface, monitors the reading frequency and > > > time > >

tracking our readers? (Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts)

2020-04-14 Thread Holger Levsen
On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 02:31:23PM -0700, Sean Whitton wrote: > > The trust system gives me no trust at all. It is very closely bound to > > participation over the web interface, monitors the reading frequency and > > time > > spent on reading by users. > [1] >

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts

2020-04-14 Thread tomas
On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 09:33:20PM +, Andy Smith wrote: [...] > Not to speak for Neil, but it's generally argued that private > entities cannot censor, because a nation/state can tell you that you > cannot express an opinion using your own resources. By contrast a > private entity like

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts

2020-04-14 Thread tomas
On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 02:31:23PM -0700, Sean Whitton wrote: > Hello, > > On Mon 13 Apr 2020 at 10:33PM +02, Mathias Behrle wrote: > > > The trust system gives me no trust at all. It is very closely bound to > > participation over the web interface, monitors the reading frequency and > > time

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-14 Thread Andrei POPESCU
On Lu, 13 apr 20, 15:23:28, Dan Purgert wrote: > On Apr 13, 2020, Russ Allbery wrote: > > The thing with the "newer" projects that I've seen (and maybe I'm just a > curmudgeon trapped in a young person's body) is that they come off to me > as the early dotcom "exactly like X, except on the

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-14 Thread Andrei POPESCU
On Lu, 13 apr 20, 14:23:30, Sean Whitton wrote: > > (a) would more clearly benefit from having more structure. It is less > clear that (b) would benefit, and (b) benefits from the posting of diffs > and replying using inline comments. It seems like Salsa would be better suited for commenting on

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts

2020-04-13 Thread Andy Smith
Hello, On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 10:33:25PM +0200, Mathias Behrle wrote: > * Neil McGovern: " Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts" > (Mon, 13 Apr 2020 19:56:28 +0100): > > I just want to state, I won't debate any issues around freedom of > > spe

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts

2020-04-13 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Mon 13 Apr 2020 at 10:33PM +02, Mathias Behrle wrote: > The trust system gives me no trust at all. It is very closely bound to > participation over the web interface, monitors the reading frequency and time > spent on reading by users. It seems this is indeed so.[1][2] I hope that an

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-13 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Mon 13 Apr 2020 at 04:54AM +09, Charles Plessy wrote: > Le Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 03:05:12PM -0700, Sean Whitton a écrit : >> >> For any technical topic (including DEPs) it is important that we can >> find old discussions in the future, easily, and without there being too >> many

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-13 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Mon 13 Apr 2020 at 08:38PM +01, Neil McGovern wrote: > On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 07:39:34PM +0200, Enrico Zini wrote: >> Does Discourse have some kind of export feature, that one could >> postprocess to get for example a mailbox of annotated emails? >> > > Yes, though I think there's

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-13 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Sun 12 Apr 2020 at 07:39PM +02, Enrico Zini wrote: > Things that the current list discussion doesn't easily give: > > - +1 kind of feedback, or simple agreement, tends to unexpressed: >people only reply if they have a problem with things, and shut up >otherwise. > >For

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-13 Thread Scott Kitterman
On Monday, April 13, 2020 3:38:45 PM EDT Neil McGovern wrote: > On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 07:39:34PM +0200, Enrico Zini wrote: > > Does Discourse have some kind of export feature, that one could > > postprocess to get for example a mailbox of annotated emails? > > Yes, though I think there's just

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts

2020-04-13 Thread Mathias Behrle
* Neil McGovern: " Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts" (Mon, 13 Apr 2020 19:56:28 +0100): > I am going to try and split this out into two replies, so those > following along can see the different issues. The irony of the > difficulty on doing this with

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-13 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello Ihor, On Sun 12 Apr 2020 at 05:12PM -07, Ihor Antonov wrote: > I much more like what https://sourcehut.org is doing. They are working on > improving email workflows without forcing users into web browsers and I think > this is something we should do to. It is worth noting that Sourcehut

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-13 Thread Dan Purgert
On Apr 13, 2020, Russ Allbery wrote: > Dan Purgert writes: > > > I think your younger colleagues are perhaps in a similar situation as me > > then -- the first place they've experienced *real* email volumes is at > > their first actual professional position; and they don't know how to > > cope

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Alternate interactions

2020-04-13 Thread Russ Allbery
Ihor Antonov writes: > I do apologize if I came across offensively in this thread. English is > not my native language and often I lack communication skills to express > what I want in a less blunt way. And often re-reading my own emails It > picture myself as an angry enraged, which is not how

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-13 Thread Russ Allbery
Dan Purgert writes: > I think your younger colleagues are perhaps in a similar situation as me > then -- the first place they've experienced *real* email volumes is at > their first actual professional position; and they don't know how to > cope with *everything* being placed into their inbox. I

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Alternate interactions

2020-04-13 Thread Ihor Antonov
On Monday, April 13, 2020 12:20:28 PM PDT Neil McGovern wrote: > There is a commitment to improve the email integration from at least one > Discourse employee, who also happens to be a Debian Developer. I but do > > want to emphasise the point I made in my original mail: > > It should be noted

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-13 Thread Neil McGovern
On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 07:39:34PM +0200, Enrico Zini wrote: > Does Discourse have some kind of export feature, that one could > postprocess to get for example a mailbox of annotated emails? > Yes, though I think there's just automated ways of doing this for the entire database, or for your

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-13 Thread Dan Purgert
On Apr 13, 2020, Russ Allbery wrote: > Dan Purgert writes: > > > Who makes up the "younger" crowd? sub 30? sub 20? I mean, I personally > > was in my mid-20s when I first started using Linux (college), and I had > > otherwise only been introduced to the internet via AOL. > > Sub 30 was what I

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Alternate interactions

2020-04-13 Thread Neil McGovern
I am going to try and split this out into two replies, so those following along can see the different issues. The irony of the difficulty on doing this within email may or may not be lost for others. On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 02:43:31PM -0700, Ihor Antonov wrote: > - There are only 2 browsers out

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-13 Thread Steve McIntyre
On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 10:51:21AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: > >Sub 30 was what I was thinking of. I'm only saying there's a bit of a >statistical tendency, not that this applies to everyone, obviously. But >when I look around at the broader development world, the majority of the >newer

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts

2020-04-13 Thread Neil McGovern
I am going to try and split this out into two replies, so those following along can see the different issues. The irony of the difficulty on doing this within email may or may not be lost for others. On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 02:43:31PM -0700, Ihor Antonov wrote: > > You have to trust the

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-13 Thread Neil McGovern
On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 04:54:28AM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: > In that sense, I would expect structured discussion systems such as > Discourse to be a potential time saver, and therefore lower the barrier > for contribution to everybody: those who contribute their point of view, > and those who

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-13 Thread Russ Allbery
Dan Purgert writes: > Who makes up the "younger" crowd? sub 30? sub 20? I mean, I personally > was in my mid-20s when I first started using Linux (college), and I had > otherwise only been introduced to the internet via AOL. Sub 30 was what I was thinking of. I'm only saying there's a bit of

Re: Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-13 Thread tomas
On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 09:33:27AM -0400, Dan Purgert wrote: [...] > > In-reply-to header of your mail, then ;-D > > Drat, didn't realize that didn't pull in :( ; sorry for the gaffe. ;-D > > Brought to you by some dinosaur > > I should be getting off your lawn then, right? :-) Had I a

Re: Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-13 Thread Dan Purgert
On Apr 13, 2020, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 08:46:02AM -0400, Dan Purgert wrote: > > On April 12, 2020, Russ Allbery wrote: > > > [...] > > > There is some age correlation with the type of communication mechanism > > > one is comfortable with [...] > > > Who makes up the

Re: Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-13 Thread tomas
On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 08:46:02AM -0400, Dan Purgert wrote: > On April 12, 2020, Russ Allbery wrote: > > [...] > > There is some age correlation with the type of communication mechanism > > one is comfortable with [...] > Who makes up the "younger" crowd? [...] > (Aside, apologies if this is

Re: Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-13 Thread Dan Purgert
On April 12, 2020, Russ Allbery wrote: > [...] > There is some age correlation with the type of communication mechanism > one is comfortable with, and reason to believe that younger people > skew towards being more comfortable with forums than with email. Who makes up the "younger" crowd? sub

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-13 Thread tomas
On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 06:55:25AM +0100, Marcin Kulisz wrote: [Gigantic quote elided] > This is not true, and this email is proof of this What is "this", and then... what is "this"? And "this"? One of the nicest things in (nearly lost) mails and usenet culture is the right quoting style. If

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-13 Thread Marcin Kulisz
On 12 April 2020 22:43:31 BST, Ihor Antonov wrote: >On Sunday, April 12, 2020 1:15:23 PM PDT Russ Allbery wrote: > >> 1. A database-driven discussion system that supports updates lets you >go >>beyond the moderation that you're worried about (rejecting >messages) >>and do other forms of

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-12 Thread Ihor Antonov
Unfortunately part of my original message was truncated so I will continue it here: On Sunday, April 12, 2020 1:15:23 PM PDT Russ Allbery wrote: > > Coming from a corrupted-to-the-bone post USSR country I speak from > > personal experience of being on receiving end of that situation. You may >

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-12 Thread Russ Allbery
Russ Allbery writes: > There does indeed appear to be some sort of problem (I haven't received > the list copy of your message either), but your message was approved two > minutes after you sent it, so I don't think it's with the moderation. Ah, apologies, I was also confused by a change we

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-12 Thread Russ Allbery
Ihor Antonov writes: > Well, now I notice, thank you very much. > Apr 12 21:43:38 mail.antonovs.family smtpd[46138]: bcb7c45eb6e6a5bf mta > delivery evpid=95394d1f34ea1dd5 from= to= proj...@lists.debian.org> rcpt=<-> source="10.193.1.100" relay="82.195.75.100 > (bendel.debian.org)"

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-12 Thread Stephen Frost
Greetings, * Ihor Antonov (ihor@antonovs.family) wrote: > On Sunday, April 12, 2020 1:15:23 PM PDT Russ Allbery wrote: > > Ihor Antonov writes: > > > On Sunday, April 12, 2020 11:51:27 AM PDT Russ Allbery wrote: > > >> The forum to which you sent this message is already moderated and has > > >>

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-12 Thread Ihor Antonov
On Sunday, April 12, 2020 1:15:23 PM PDT Russ Allbery wrote: > 1. A database-driven discussion system that supports updates lets you go >beyond the moderation that you're worried about (rejecting messages) >and do other forms of moderation that help improve the quality of >discussion

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-12 Thread Ihor Antonov
On Sunday, April 12, 2020 1:15:23 PM PDT Russ Allbery wrote: > Ihor Antonov writes: > > On Sunday, April 12, 2020 11:51:27 AM PDT Russ Allbery wrote: > >> The forum to which you sent this message is already moderated and has > >> been for months. I suspect you didn't even notice. > > > > So how

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-12 Thread Michael Lustfield
On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 13:15:23 -0700 Russ Allbery wrote: > Ihor Antonov writes: > > On Sunday, April 12, 2020 11:51:27 AM PDT Russ Allbery wrote: > > [...] > So, I should be clear that I personally have only a small amount of > experience with Discourse and haven't looked into the details of

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-12 Thread Russ Allbery
Ihor Antonov writes: > On Sunday, April 12, 2020 11:51:27 AM PDT Russ Allbery wrote: >> The forum to which you sent this message is already moderated and has >> been for months. I suspect you didn't even notice. > So how then you need more moderation possibilities with Discourse? So, I

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-12 Thread Charles Plessy
Le Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 03:05:12PM -0700, Sean Whitton a écrit : > > For any technical topic (including DEPs) it is important that we can > find old discussions in the future, easily, and without there being too > many entrypoints into the search. Hi Sean, in my experience of DEP driver and

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-12 Thread Ihor Antonov
On Sunday, April 12, 2020 11:51:27 AM PDT Russ Allbery wrote: > Ihor Antonov writes: > > And separately, I got interested in Debian because it was using mailing > > lists in the first place. Mail is decentralized by design and this is > > why it is so important for freedom of speech. > > I

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-12 Thread Russ Allbery
Ihor Antonov writes: > And separately, I got interested in Debian because it was using mailing > lists in the first place. Mail is decentralized by design and this is > why it is so important for freedom of speech. I don't understand this comment. Mailing lists are inherently centralized by

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-12 Thread Ihor Antonov
On Friday, April 10, 2020 11:59:59 AM PDT Neil McGovern wrote: > > What about forums.debian.net? > I have no interest in interacting with a community of users and > moderators who allow blatent Code of Conduct violations to go > unchecked. As a newcomer I am genuinely interested to

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-12 Thread Enrico Zini
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 03:05:12PM -0700, Sean Whitton wrote: > Right now I can rely on my notmuch database to pull basically any Debian > discussion, because it includes the BTS, lists, and mail which I was > CCed on or received through an alias like ftpmaster@. And one can > easily incorporate

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-11 Thread Olek Wojnar
If we were having this discussion on Discourse I would give this idea a +1. :) Well... technically a <3 but... On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 3:02 PM Neil McGovern wrote: > Hi folks, > > For a little while, I've been keen to see how we can improve our > communication methods, both to make it more

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-11 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Sat 11 Apr 2020 at 11:11PM +02, Enrico Zini wrote: > The recent difficult discussion on SSO here on -project made me think of > a use case for which Discourse might be just the thing: Debian > Enhancement Proposals[0]. > > I get the impression that having proposals discussed/peer

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-11 Thread Enrico Zini
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 07:59:59PM +0100, Neil McGovern wrote: > For a little while, I've been keen to see how we can improve our > communication methods, both to make it more accessible to newcomers and to > take advantage of more featureful tooling than has been traditionally > possible with

too many acronyms [was: Testing Discourse for Debian]

2020-04-10 Thread Luca Filipozzi
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 03:26:16PM -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > On Friday, April 10, 2020 02:59:59 PM Neil McGovern wrote: > > For a little while, I've been keen to see how we can improve our > > communication methods, both to make it more accessible to newcomers > > Hmm, from the peanut

Re: Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-10 Thread rhkramer
On Friday, April 10, 2020 02:59:59 PM Neil McGovern wrote: > For a little while, I've been keen to see how we can improve our > communication methods, both to make it more accessible to newcomers Hmm, from the peanut gallery, if you really want things accessible to newcomers, it would be nice

Testing Discourse for Debian

2020-04-10 Thread Neil McGovern
Hi folks, For a little while, I've been keen to see how we can improve our communication methods, both to make it more accessible to newcomers and to take advantage of more featureful tooling than has been traditionally possible with email lists. As such, I set up an instance of Discourse[0] at