I won't unsubscribe from the list.
And I wish I could stop right there, yet I'm aware it's an invitation to
rub those thinking about unsubscribing in the wrong way. So...
Don't know how many times during the last week or so I started writing a
reply, then discarded doing so thinking "what's this adding to the
discussion?", "is this gonna make things worse?", "WHY THE FUCK DO I FEEL
LIKE I HAVE TO FIX THIS?". At that point, I always realized I'm not fucking
jesus, it's not my duty to fix anything and who the fuck am I anyway.
Moreso, I have enough shit going on in my life. Things with higher
priorities. Why bother with all of this, right? Maybe some of you can
relate.
Yet, I kept arriving at the same point over and over again.
And I wondered why.
My reasoning so far: Where does it take us, folks with a mutual interest in
the same thing, if we're not able to discuss and settle things without
burning the soil? I mean, isn't this what maturity is be about? Being able
to take a step back from one's own position, leaving room for another to
co-exist. Being able to disagree in a respectful way?
And yes, it's tough. Maybe one of the toughest things these days. This
feeling that one's not able to communicate on the internet anymore without
fearing everything one writes gets ripped apart and re-assembled in the way
maximizing damage. Ever heard about Wiios Laws of communication from the
1970s? They look like this:
The fundamental Wiio's law states that "Communication usually fails, except
by accident". The full set of laws is as follows:
1. Communication usually fails, except by accident.
1. If communication can fail, it will.
2. If communication cannot fail, it still most usually fails.
3. If communication seems to succeed in the intended way, there's a
misunderstanding.
4. If you are content with your message, communication certainly
fails.
2. If a message can be interpreted in several ways, it will be
interpreted in a manner that maximizes the damage.
3. There is always someone who knows better than you what you meant with
your message.
4. The more we communicate, the worse communication succeeds.
1. The more we communicate, the faster misunderstandings propagate.
5. In mass communication
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_communication>, the important thing
is not how things are but how they seem to be.
6. The importance of a news item is inversely proportional to the square
of the distance.
7. The more important the situation is, the more probable you had
forgotten an essential thing that you remembered a moment ago.
Digest those for a moment. Wanna fall for those? I don't. I'm sick of it.
I'm sick of noticing how each and every one holds true for me, too. And it
takes me a lot of stepping back, breathing, reflecting, stepping back some
more and breathing some more to see these patterns at work. Add the 160
known biases to that. Great fun. Not.
The way I see it, it takes two to get upset. One person offering something
to get upset about, another person to follow that invitation.
It's nobody else's but MY responsibility to choose to get upset, what to
get upset about and how I want to deal with that then.
So, what's frustrating me about this entire discussion:
People not acting responsible for themselves, instead blaming each other.
Or even Kent.
Imho, it's exactly this particular lack of responsibility that put the
Trumps of he world in the places where they are. It removes personal room
for taking action. Creating this imminent notion of being unable to
actually do something, eventually letting the idiots in the world win.
Because people stop voting, thinking "what can I do about this anyway?"
I'm sick of it.
I don't think we need to chill.
Especially those who don't want to contribute to one opinion or the other
need to step up and say something.
I'm crossing this off my list for now. If anyone feels like tearing this
apart to fuel a point, I can't do anything about it. But I don't want to
shut the fuck up, acting responsible for others in not contributing out of
the fear that somebody else could actually use my words for their own
agenda. Neither here. Not anywhere else.
Stay sane folks, at least keep trying.
On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 10:14 AM Peter Bense <textur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's the pervasive *negativity *by a few members that is off-putting.
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 10:06 AM The Archiver <thearchi...@thearchiver.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Well done Kent. You're doing a great job of letting this list implode.
>> It's not the first time that you have stood by and let one list member
>> force others to feel like they have no option but to unsubscribe.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* kent williams [mailto:chaircrus...@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* 28 February 2020 03:41
>> *To:* DJ Shiva <djsh...@gmail.com>; list 313 <313@hyperreal.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: Keep it real (and on topic)
>>
>>
>>
>> Would be sad to see you go. But it's up to you. Instructions here:
>> http://music.hyperreal.org/lists/313/02.html
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 7:59 PM DJ Shiva <djsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> "She could have been any of the 100+ genders she probably believes in
>> and it wouldn’t matter. "
>>
>> Mmmmhmmmm, sure Jan. You tell me everything I need to know about your
>> attitude toward gender right there.
>>
>> For the love of my sanity will someone unsubscribe me from this list?
>>
>>
>> Lisa
>> http://www.noncompliantmusic.com
>> http://www.soundcloud.com/noncompliant1
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> "Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I
>> can hear her breathing." - Arundhati Roy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 2:58 PM Joe Marougi <jmaro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Appreciate the reply Jodie,
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m gonna go out on what I feel is not too far of a limb by saying you’re
>> probably the only one here that sees her “apologies” as not being
>> backhanded.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please don’t deflect by trying to bring in women’s voices etc because
>> that’s not the point we are discussing. She could have been any of the
>> 100+ genders she probably believes in and it wouldn’t matter.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you can’t see that most here are doing their best to “tolerate” her
>> then I don’t now what to tell you.
>>
>>
>>
>> We shouldn’t have to barely tolerate anyone here. Especially if they are
>> not at least warned to change their tone.
>>
>>
>>
>> Speaking of Rick, spoke to him today about a conversation around a 3
>> chairs party here in SF.
>>
>>
>>
>> Has everyone here bought my new release yet??
>>
>> :-)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 11:42 AM U&I Design <uandidesigndetr...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I havent chimed in yet, but seeing Joe's email has prompted me to.
>>
>>
>>
>> "We tried to respond respectfully at first..." Sorry, but I didn't see in
>> the emails to Denise that there was much respect being given, not at the
>> start or throughout.
>>
>>
>>
>> She did apologize for how she reacted and people have continued to go
>> after her. As for the comment that "if she was a guy she would've been
>> removed long ago" I have to disagree. I love Tom Cox and I loved the
>> heated debates he used to get in. Him and I had a few as well. I never got
>> so touchy that I thought he should be removed from the list. Those threads
>> and debates back then pushed the envelope much farther than any of the
>> emails I saw by her did. And in reality, there have been more emails
>> discussing this than there were that caused this discussion to begin.
>>
>>
>>
>> Her contribution to the music is undeniable and rather than just write
>> her off as being hostile, maybe everyone should take stock as to why and
>> what pushed her to become hostile in the first place.
>>
>>
>> Removing someone that has contributed as much to the musuc as she has
>> would be a shame.
>>
>>
>>
>> Just my 2 cents. And Joe, I'm pretty sure Marcellus and Rick would agree
>> with me on this one. They love the voices of strong opinionated women in
>> the scene as much as I do.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Jodie
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020, 15:41 Joe Marougi <jmaro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> So I guess there’s the “two wrongs don’t make a right” argument vs “we
>> tried to reply respectfully at first but she keeps replying with hostility
>> while trying to justify her tone”
>>
>>
>>
>> What I replied earlier that wasn’t copied here in the group was asking
>> why Kent would risk losing many for the sake of accommodating one. Makes
>> no sense whatsoever. There are unwritten rules of conduct in each scenario
>> which she’s clearly in violation of.
>>
>>
>>
>> Lastly I feel that if she was a dude she’d have been 86’d by now (or at
>> least on a last warning regarding her tone).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >>>>>>>>> attention:
>> >>>>>>>>> https://undergroundandblack.com/
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> And it's clear there's a lot of emotional upset and personal
>> issues
>> >>>>>>>>> that have spilled onto the list. I don't want to say that's not
>> >>>>>>>>> appropriate content, but it should be in the context that we're
>> a group of
>> >>>>>>>>> friends, widely dispersed geographically, with something in
>> common.. So keep
>> >>>>>>>>> in mind you're talking to a friend, and they deserve respect
>> even if you
>> >>>>>>>>> disagree with them.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>> Denise Dalphond, Ph. D.
>> >>>>>>> ethnomusicologist
>> >>>>>>> schoolcraftwax.work
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> --
>> >>>>> Denise Dalphond, Ph. D.
>> >>>>> ethnomusicologist
>> >>>>> schoolcraftwax.work
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Lerato Khathi
>> >>>> http://uzurirecordings.com
>> >>>> http://uzuriartistbookingsandmanagement.com
>> >>>> http://soundcloud.com/uzuri
>> >>>> Skype : Lakuti
>> >>>>
>> >>> --
>> >> Denise Dalphond, Ph. D.
>> >> ethnomusicologist
>> >> schoolcraftwax.work
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >--
>> >
>> >Lerato Khathi
>> >http://uzurirecordings.com
>> >http://uzuriartistbookingsandmanagement.com
>> >http://soundcloud.com/uzuri
>> >Skype : Lakuti
>> >
>>
>>
