Steve let me introduce to this company called Apple.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 3:46 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> A. Why does musk get a free pass every time he over promises and under
> delivers?
> B. Why would anybody with any modicum of testosterone buy an overpriced
> truck that doesnt have real cargo capacity or the ability to actually haul
> a load over distance
>
> On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 1:46 PM Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, MPGe is useful for comparing electric vehicles, if nothing else.
>>
>> I agree, I got the impression that the cybertruck is mainly designed that
>> way for functional reasons. Elon Musk even said that part of the reason is
>> because they can't stamp the stainless steel.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 11:02 AM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I agree that the calculus for MPGe is probably not realistic, but at
>>> least it's something to hang your hat on for now. The latest firmware for
>>> the model 3 comes in at ~~ 140 MPGe, so Tesla is apparently figuring out
>>> how to squeeze more efficiency out of their vehicles.
>>>
>>> I think one of the reasons for the radical shape of the cybertruck is an
>>> effort to get some aerodynamics out of a platform that (with conventional
>>> trucks) is very unfriendly toward aerodynamics. Another reason might be
>>> because the material (stainless steel) is pretty difficult to hydro-form.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/25/2019 8:53 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>>>
>>> Considering the size of it, and the fact that it's mostly made out of
>>> relatively thick stainless steel, I have a hard time believing they can get
>>> 250 miles out of a 75kwh battery pack. Granted, Tesla has made huge
>>> improvements in efficiency on the model S over it's lifespan, but 111 MPGe
>>> would be the same as the current Model S, and it seems unlikely they'll get
>>> that much better over the next couple of years. I think a 100kwh battery on
>>> the base model is a lot more likely.
>>>
>>> MPGe isn't exactly an accurate way of comparing the cost of an electric
>>> vs gas vehicle... my model S is rated at 89 MPGe, but if I figure out what
>>> the actual cost per mile is compared to current gas prices here, it works
>>> out to the equivalent of around 50 MPG. But not too long ago, that would've
>>> been closer to 70 MPG (and most likely will be again before too long), and
>>> the cost of electricity is way more consistent than gas.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 9:44 AM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was scouring the net trying to get a clue about what size the
>>>> batteries would be on this thing. Only one publication speculated that the
>>>> base model with 250 mile range (the $39,900 one) would have a ~~ 75KWh
>>>> battery. Of course it is pure speculation, but that would result in about
>>>> 111 MPGe. Can't do that with your diesel Silverado.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> bp
>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/24/2019 7:36 PM, Robert wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I think I figured out the design... Prototype name was the Cyberf117
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/24/19 6:20 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I want one with a Boston Scientific dog in the back.
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 24, 2019 4:46 PM
>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>>>>
>>>> Tesla production models roaming the streets is scary enough without the
>>>> nightmare of prototypes creeping through the alleys
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 10:27 PM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There may be prototypes roaming the streets as we speak.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> bp
>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/23/2019 8:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Review says the exterior is all “stabby” but the inside is comfy.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.engadget.com/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-impressions-ride/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Stabby Steve would like it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I was surprise they were taking it on test drives, I had assumed it
>>>>> was a non functional prototype just for show.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Robert
>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, November 22, 2019 7:58 PM
>>>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, he didn't opt for the cupholder delete option, which comes with a
>>>>> $4K/cupholder CREDIT...
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/22/19 4:53 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I was just going by what Robert said as $8K, and I figured there were
>>>>> two of them.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> bp
>>>>>
>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/22/2019 4:51 PM, Tim Hardy wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Umm, Bill - fake news. Came in my 2016 Cayman GTS for nada…
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 22, 2019, at 7:37 PM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah. Only $4K each.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> bp
>>>>>
>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/22/2019 3:51 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> woah! you can get cupholders in a Porsche these days?!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:30 PM Robert Andrews <i...@avantwireless.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Having gone through Porsche ordering hell, 8K gets you cupholders
>>>>> finally, Sound system? More like 15...
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/22/2019 01:04 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>>> > Toyota is super nice when it comes to base models. I got a 4
>>>>> cylinder
>>>>> > Tacoma (should have gotten the v6, it's way too underpowered) base
>>>>> model
>>>>> > and it has touchscreen with bluetooth. Power windows/locks/etc.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Porsche on the other hand requires you have something like $8k in
>>>>> > options for that feature. Another $2k if you want the bluetooth to
>>>>> do
>>>>> > audio as well.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Josh Luthman
>>>>> > Office: 937-552-2340
>>>>> > Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>>> > 1100 Wayne St
>>>>> > Suite 1337
>>>>> > Troy, OH 45373
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:56 PM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net
>>>>> > <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > It was mostly a dig at the lowest priced option a manufacturer
>>>>> makes
>>>>> > probably is missing a variety of features one is used to.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > -----
>>>>> > Mike Hammett
>>>>> > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>>> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><
>>>>> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><
>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><
>>>>> https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>>> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>>> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><
>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><
>>>>> https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>>> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>>> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>>> >
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> > *From: *"Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
>>>>> > <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
>>>>> > *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com
>>>>> > <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
>>>>> > *Sent: *Friday, November 22, 2019 2:53:33 PM
>>>>> > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Yes Mike, it's a Toyota. Not Pontiac.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Josh Luthman
>>>>> > Office: 937-552-2340
>>>>> > Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>>> > 1100 Wayne St
>>>>> > Suite 1337
>>>>> > Troy, OH 45373
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:51 PM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net
>>>>> > <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Does a $30k truck come with AC? Power windows? Radio?
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > -----
>>>>> > Mike Hammett
>>>>> > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>>> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><
>>>>> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><
>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><
>>>>> https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>>> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>>> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><
>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><
>>>>> https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>>> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>>> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>>> >
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> > *From: *"Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
>>>>> > <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>>
>>>>> > *To: *"Mathew Howard" <mhoward...@gmail.com
>>>>> > <mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>>, "AnimalFarm Microwave Users
>>>>> > Group" <af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
>>>>> > *Sent: *Friday, November 22, 2019 2:49:15 PM
>>>>> > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>>>>> >
>>>>> > OK... and? Still a far cry from $40 or $50.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On 11/22/19 3:42 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>>>>> > > That's $32,780...
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > On Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 2:35 PM Matt Hoppes
>>>>> > > <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
>>>>> > <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
>>>>> > > <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
>>>>> > <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>>> wrote:
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > That’s the current model.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Here’s the bill of sale:
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > image1.jpeg
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > On Nov 22, 2019, at 1:55 PM, Josh Luthman
>>>>> > > <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
>>>>> > <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>>>>> > <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
>>>>> > <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>>
>>>>> > > wrote:
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >> That's $36k, 20% more...
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >> Josh Luthman
>>>>> > >> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>>> > >> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>>> > >> 1100 Wayne St
>>>>> > >> Suite 1337
>>>>> > >> Troy, OH 45373
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >> On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 1:08 PM Matt Hoppes
>>>>> > >> <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
>>>>> > <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
>>>>> > >> <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
>>>>> > <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>>> wrote:
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >> I’ll get you the bill of sale when I get back to
>>>>> the
>>>>> > office.
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >> Brand new 2018 Tundra. 100 miles. Never owned.
>>>>> No issue.
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >> Here’s a comparably equipped 2019 for $34k.
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >> <image1.png>
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >> On Nov 22, 2019, at 12:39 PM, Josh Luthman
>>>>> > >> <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
>>>>> > <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>>>>> > >> <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
>>>>> > <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>> wrote:
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >>> You think a truck would have sat on the lot for
>>>>> a
>>>>> > year?
>>>>> > >>> Tundras don't sell well, but I don't think they
>>>>> sell
>>>>> > >>> remarkably bad.
>>>>> > >>>
>>>>> > >>> Josh Luthman
>>>>> > >>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>>> > >>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>>> > >>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>>> > >>> Suite 1337
>>>>> > >>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>>> > >>>
>>>>> > >>>
>>>>> > >>> On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 12:38 PM Robert
>>>>> > >>> <i...@avantwireless.com
>>>>> > <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com> <mailto:
>>>>> i...@avantwireless.com
>>>>> > <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>>> wrote:
>>>>> > >>>
>>>>> > >>> Last year lot sitter, sure....
>>>>> > >>>
>>>>> > >>> On 11/22/19 9:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>>> > >>>> I seriously doubt you got a new, untitled,
>>>>> > Tundra for
>>>>> > >>>> $30k, Especially with options. There's no
>>>>> > way they're
>>>>> > >>>> doing a 10%+ discount for you or anyone
>>>>> else
>>>>> > with a
>>>>> > >>>> single quantity purchase. I'll believe 30k
>>>>> > when I see
>>>>> > >>>> the bill of sale.
>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>> > >>>> Josh Luthman
>>>>> > >>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>>> > >>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>>> > >>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>>> > >>>> Suite 1337
>>>>> > >>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>> > >>>> On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 10:57 AM Matt
>>>>> Hoppes
>>>>> > >>>> <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
>>>>> > <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
>>>>> > >>>> <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
>>>>> > <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>>> wrote:
>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>> > >>>> I absolutely know what trucks cost and
>>>>> > $50-$60k is
>>>>> > >>>> way too much. We
>>>>> > >>>> purchased a brand new Toyota Tundra two
>>>>> > years ago
>>>>> > >>>> for $30k... outfitted
>>>>> > >>>> well.
>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>> > >>>> On 11/22/19 10:33 AM, Mike Hammett
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > >>>> > To be consistent with my feelings on
>>>>> > their semi
>>>>> > >>>> truck, as long as the
>>>>> > >>>> > performance, specifications,
>>>>> > reliability, utility
>>>>> > >>>> are as promised, I
>>>>> > >>>> > care much less about how it appears.
>>>>> > >>>> >
>>>>> > >>>> > That $40k price point is nice, though
>>>>> > I'd want at
>>>>> > >>>> least the $50k to have
>>>>> > >>>> > AWD.
>>>>> > >>>> >
>>>>> > >>>> > I've seen people say stuff like,
>>>>> "OMG,
>>>>> > that too
>>>>> > >>>> much money for a truck."
>>>>> > >>>> > Clearly they have no idea what trucks
>>>>> > cost. I
>>>>> > >>>> haven't seen what the
>>>>> > >>>> > electric ATV costs.
>>>>> > >>>> >
>>>>> > >>>> > I also wonder what else changes
>>>>> between
>>>>> > the tiers.
>>>>> > >>>> Adding more motors
>>>>> > >>>> > shouldn't add to the range of the
>>>>> > vehicle, so
>>>>> > >>>> what's happening with the
>>>>> > >>>> > battery, weight, etc. Adding more
>>>>> batteries
>>>>> > >>>> shouldn't make it faster, so
>>>>> > >>>> > what's up with the extra motors?
>>>>> > >>>> >
>>>>> > >>>> > I'm more willing to admit I don't
>>>>> need
>>>>> > to pull a
>>>>> > >>>> house with my daily
>>>>> > >>>> > driver because I can always get
>>>>> > something from the
>>>>> > >>>> farm. I just want it
>>>>> > >>>> > to be big enough to handle most
>>>>> things.
>>>>> > Hell, even
>>>>> > >>>> the 14k towing would
>>>>> > >>>> > be enough for our Bobcat and trailer.
>>>>> > >>>> >
>>>>> > >>>> > I wonder how trailers work with the
>>>>> > EVs... how
>>>>> > >>>> easy is it to add (or
>>>>> > >>>> > get the option for) gooseneck, fifth
>>>>> > wheel, etc.
>>>>> > >>>> >
>>>>> > >>>> > I do like the hard, lockable tonneau
>>>>> > cover. Maybe
>>>>> > >>>> Rivian had it
>>>>> > >>>> > available and I just forgot. Nice
>>>>> place
>>>>> > to store a
>>>>> > >>>> bunch of tools for a
>>>>> > >>>> > work truck, though no place to add a
>>>>> > ladder rack.
>>>>> > >>>> >
>>>>> > >>>> > I was annoyed they didn't have
>>>>> battery
>>>>> > specs, but
>>>>> > >>>> I suppose that could
>>>>> > >>>> > still be fuzzy. Maybe they don't
>>>>> know if
>>>>> > they need
>>>>> > >>>> 100 or 110 kw to meet
>>>>> > >>>> > their advertised performance numbers.
>>>>> > >>>> >
>>>>> > >>>> > Weight would be nice to know as well.
>>>>> > >>>> >
>>>>> > >>>> > I'm not surprised on the design. All
>>>>> > else equal,
>>>>> > >>>> I'd probably prefer the
>>>>> > >>>> > Rivian, but let's see how things
>>>>> > actually bare
>>>>> > >>>> out. What's the "mpg"
>>>>> > >>>> > compared to Rivian? I guess it'd be
>>>>> MPkWh?
>>>>> > >>>> >
>>>>> > >>>> >
>>>>> > >>>> >
>>>>> > >>>> >
>>>>> > >>>> >
>>>>> > >>>> > -----
>>>>> > >>>> > Mike Hammett
>>>>> > >>>> > Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>>> > >>>> <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>>> > >>>> >
>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><
>>>>> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><
>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><
>>>>> https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>>> > >>>> > Midwest Internet Exchange
>>>>> > <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>>> > >>>> >
>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><
>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><
>>>>> https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>>> > >>>> > The Brothers WISP
>>>>> > <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>>> > >>>> > <
>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>> > >>>> >
>>>>> > >>>> >
>>>>> > >>>> >
>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>> > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>>> > >>>> >
>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> > >>>> > *From: *"Ken Hohhof" <
>>>>> af...@kwisp.com
>>>>> > <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>
>>>>> > >>>> <mailto:af...@kwisp.com
>>>>> > <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>>>
>>>>> > >>>> > *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users
>>>>> Group"
>>>>> > >>>> <af@af.afmug.com <mailto:
>>>>> af@af.afmug.com>
>>>>> > <mailto:af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>>
>>>>> > >>>> > *Sent: *Friday, November 22, 2019
>>>>> 9:25:31 AM
>>>>> > >>>> > *Subject: *[AFMUG] Cybertruck
>>>>> > >>>> >
>>>>> > >>>> > I was expecting to see some comments
>>>>> > from this
>>>>> > >>>> crowd. Was everyone
>>>>> > >>>> > suitably underwhelmed? Or running
>>>>> out
>>>>> > to place
>>>>> > >>>> your pre-orders?
>>>>> > >>>> >
>>>>> > >>>> > I think I saw one comment that it
>>>>> looked
>>>>> > like a
>>>>> > >>>> cross between an El
>>>>> > >>>> > Camino and a Pontiac Aztec. It
>>>>> > certainly was not
>>>>> > >>>> what I expected when I
>>>>> > >>>> > heard Tesla was going to bring out an
>>>>> > electric
>>>>> > >>>> truck. It sounds like
>>>>> > >>>> > the 3 motor version will indeed be
>>>>> fast,
>>>>> > but how
>>>>> > >>>> big a market is there
>>>>> > >>>> > for a fast,
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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