She was imprisoned multiple times. She lost her liberty, certainly much more of a heavy hand than being required to get vaccinated. The government has a duty of care as part of being the soverign. They must act to protect the public. My grandfather was a cop whose duty included forcibly removing contagious people to that “pest house” for quarantine. I think a vaccine requirement is what the government should do to protect the greatest portion of the population. Anyone here been in the military and take a pass on the shots?
Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 23, 2021, at 1:59 PM, David Coudron <david.coud...@advantenon.com> > wrote: > > > Unfortunately I don’t know the particulars of typhoid Mary’s situation. I > understand a bit of the folk lore, but don’t only have an idea of what that > story is about. My basic understanding was that an individual who knew they > were sick was intentionally infecting others. Certainly a despicable act if > that was the case. To better put that in the context of today’s situation I > would want to know these things: > Was there typhoid vaccine that was generally available? > What is the mortality rate of typhoid fever versus covid? I suspect typhoid > was significantly higher, but don’t have any data to back that up. > I believe there is case law to suggest intentionally infecting people is a > pretty serious crime and after the initial stupid college intentional > infection parties, we don’t really have people intentionally trying to infect > others. > > If we extend that argument to other diseases, will we now require flu > vaccine? It has always been a “good idea”, especially for those in high > risk health or age groups. But it has never been required. We don’t even > require vaccine for measles, shingles, and a myriad of other annoying and/or > dangerous diseases. And these have FDA approved vaccines. > > However, I would reiterate this: > If the vaccine works, and I have been vaccinated, why do I care if others > haven’t? Am I worried the vaccine doesn’t work? Do I think it is > necessary to force people to take an experimental drug for their own good > will against their will? > > Regards, > From: Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com> > Sent: Friday, July 23, 2021 2:43 PM > To: David Coudron <david.coud...@advantenon.com> > Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political > > One question: Should Typhoid Mary have been allowed to just roam free? > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jul 23, 2021, at 1:37 PM, David Coudron <david.coud...@advantenon.com> > wrote: > > > Here is what I find particularly challenging about suggesting that folks who > have chosen not to take the vaccine are not that smart. > > Folks who do that never talk about that fact that this is not an FDA approved > medicine/vaccine. I took the Moderna vaccine, the paperwork clearly stated > several facts. Among them are: > This is not FDA approved. > This “vaccine” has not been proven to prevent the virus. While we likely > all agree that there is a very good likelihood that this “vaccine” will help > prevent it, it is far from a proven fact. > The argument is, “there should be no reason to think this vaccine isn’t safe > since people aren’t dying from taking the vaccine”. Vaccines are a > risk/reward type of medical treatment. Every medicine you take has some > level of side effect. The vast majority of medicines have such negligible > side effects, that they are considered completely safe. The FDA approval > process exists to ensure we understand the potential of serious side effects > and drug interaction issues. If you are 30 years old and folks are saying > you have to take this experimental drug to prevent this incredibly small > chance of you becoming seriously ill or dying, it seems like an intelligent > thing to say “I am not sure the risk of getting seriously ill or dying from > this disease outweighs the risk of using an experimental drug”. It used to > be that people relied upon a conversation with their doctor to determine > personal risk of disease and use of a drug. Apparently we no longer do > that. We publicly shame people into using experimental drugs. > Since it is not FDA approved, we don’t have a full understanding of drug > interactions with other medicines folks need to take. We likely understand > the very common medicines, but, certainly not all. We have FDA approval > processes for good reason. If for example, you were under 40 and were > taking seizure control medication, it would be very fair to hold off on an > experimental drug until it is fully understood if the vaccine might lessen > the effectiveness of the seizure control medication. An incredibly low risk > of serious illness or death from the virus could turn into a good chance of > serious injury from seizure. As far as I know data like that is certainly > not available yet. > Why do vaccinated people feel the need to belittle those that have decided > not to get vaccinated by an experimental drug? Does it make them feel > smarter? We have people not getting flu vaccinations every year, and that > is with FDA approved medicine. But now all of a sudden it is OK to ridicule > folks that are making a decision based limited data on an experimental drug > for which the majority of the population has a very low chance of serious > illness or death? And when they do ridicule folks, they never discuss the > facts at hand, or want to have a serious discussion about the risk/reward of > this particular vaccine. Two years from now, with an FDA approval in place > and a full understanding of drug interactions and effectiveness of the > vaccine the conversation might look completely different. Right now, I > believe some very intelligent people are looking at the risk/reward and > saying “not now, but probably some day as this will become the new yearly flu > vaccine”. Until then, my risk of virus related illness doesn’t warrant a > decision to take the vaccine. > Why are people that are vaccinated so obsessed with people that aren’t > vaccinated? For those of us that are vaccinated, we are safe right? That > was the point of taking the vaccine. > Most of the science that seems most accurate right now points to this being > with us permanently like an influenza sort of virus. It will show up every > year with little mutations that will require updates, or boosters, or yearly > covid shots. What ever you want to call them. Is really so stupid to > wait until this is FDA approved before participating? If we have to do this > without FDA approval, why does that process even exist? > > I have always appreciated this list because it is usually very fact focused, > and very good at exploring solutions to problems. While some lists are very > superficial and suffer from pat answers to technical problems, folks in this > list have always tended dig deep and find tangible information related to the > email topic. I get that it is very easy to joke about the intelligence of > those who have made a decision we don’t agree with, but I don’t believe this > topic is nearly that cut and dried. > > As Chuck mentioned, unfortunately this is a somewhat political topic. I > don’t understand why, other than the fact that some react more harshly to > being told they have to do something. This should be a scientific > discussion. If definitely shouldn’t be about public shame. We don’t know > the medical situation of those that chose not to participate in an > experimental medical treatment. > > Regards, > From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF > Sent: Friday, July 23, 2021 1:02 PM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> > Cc: Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political > > They could sponsor concerts and barbecues that only admit unvaccinated... > How can I get that fake news to be picked up by the junk news feeds? > > > From: Forrest Christian (List Account) > Sent: Friday, July 23, 2021 11:55 AM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political > > I've wondered if it might be a good thing for the liberal side to start > saying "take the vaccine or not, we don't care - in fact we would prefer that > you don't so there are less of you to vote next go around". > > > On Fri, Jul 23, 2021 at 11:26 AM Carl Peterson <cpeter...@portnetworks.com> > wrote: > That assumes IQ==Comon sense. Lots of smart people can be really dumb when > it comes to sports, religon, and politics. It seems a subset of people have > convinced themselves that vaccines, and specifically the covid vaccines, are > somehow a liberal thing. > > On Fri, Jul 23, 2021 at 11:28 AM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com> wrote: > If the covid variants kill only unvaccinated, then global IQ average will > increase, right? Always good when your team wins. > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > -- > - Forrest > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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