Another reason why vaccinated people would "selfishly" care about the
unvaccinated is that the unvaccinated people are likely where the variants are
coming from. Eventually, a variant will come out that isn't covered by the
vaccine. At that point, all of the vaccinated people are at risk again.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
Midwest Internet Exchange
The Brothers WISP
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Macenski" <ch...@macenski.com>
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2021 3:00:39 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political
Q: Why are people that are vaccinated so obsessed with people that aren’t
vaccinated?
A: A few reasons:
* We are tired of wearing masks
* We don't want to get sick (nothing is 100%)
* We want open ICU beds in case we need them
If you find someone who has had a conversation with their physician and it was
recommended that they not getting the vaccine, sobeit. I don't think that
happens very often.
On Fri, Jul 23, 2021 at 2:44 PM Chuck McCown via AF < af@af.afmug.com > wrote:
One question: Should Typhoid Mary have been allowed to just roam free?
Sent from my iPhone
<blockquote>
On Jul 23, 2021, at 1:37 PM, David Coudron < david.coud...@advantenon.com >
wrote:
<blockquote>
Here is what I find particularly challenging about suggesting that folks who
have chosen not to take the vaccine are not that smart.
1. Folks who do that never talk about that fact that this is not an FDA
approved medicine/vaccine. I took the Moderna vaccine, the paperwork clearly
stated several facts. Among them are:
1. This is not FDA approved.
2. This “vaccine” has not been proven to prevent the virus. While we
likely all agree that there is a very good likelihood that this “vaccine” will
help prevent it, it is far from a proven fact.
2. The argument is, “there should be no reason to think this vaccine isn’t
safe since people aren’t dying from taking the vaccine”. Vaccines are a
risk/reward type of medical treatment. Every medicine you take has some level
of side effect. The vast majority of medicines have such negligible side
effects, that they are considered completely safe. The FDA approval process
exists to ensure we understand the potential of serious side effects and drug
interaction issues. If you are 30 years old and folks are saying you have to
take this experimental drug to prevent this incredibly small chance of you
becoming seriously ill or dying, it seems like an intelligent thing to say “I
am not sure the risk of getting seriously ill or dying from this disease
outweighs the risk of using an experimental drug”. It used to be that people
relied upon a conversation with their doctor to determine personal risk of
disease and use of a drug. Apparently we no longer do that. We publicly shame
people into using experimental drugs.
3. Since it is not FDA approved, we don’t have a full understanding of drug
interactions with other medicines folks need to take. We likely understand the
very common medicines, but, certainly not all. We have FDA approval processes
for good reason. If for example, you were under 40 and were taking seizure
control medication, it would be very fair to hold off on an experimental drug
until it is fully understood if the vaccine might lessen the effectiveness of
the seizure control medication. An incredibly low risk of serious illness or
death from the virus could turn into a good chance of serious injury from
seizure. As far as I know data like that is certainly not available yet.
4. Why do vaccinated people feel the need to belittle those that have
decided not to get vaccinated by an experimental drug? Does it make them feel
smarter? We have people not getting flu vaccinations every year, and that is
with FDA approved medicine. But now all of a sudden it is OK to ridicule folks
that are making a decision based limited data on an experimental drug for which
the majority of the population has a very low chance of serious illness or
death? And when they do ridicule folks, they never discuss the facts at hand,
or want to have a serious discussion about the risk/reward of this particular
vaccine. Two years from now, with an FDA approval in place and a full
understanding of drug interactions and effectiveness of the vaccine the
conversation might look completely different. Right now, I believe some very
intelligent people are looking at the risk/reward and saying “not now, but
probably some day as this will become the new yearly flu vaccine”. Until then,
my risk of virus related illness doesn’t warrant a decision to take the
vaccine.
5. Why are people that are vaccinated so obsessed with people that aren’t
vaccinated? For those of us that are vaccinated, we are safe right? That was
the point of taking the vaccine.
6. Most of the science that seems most accurate right now points to this
being with us permanently like an influenza sort of virus. It will show up
every year with little mutations that will require updates, or boosters, or
yearly covid shots. What ever you want to call them. Is really so stupid to
wait until this is FDA approved before participating? If we have to do this
without FDA approval, why does that process even exist?
I have always appreciated this list because it is usually very fact focused,
and very good at exploring solutions to problems. While some lists are very
superficial and suffer from pat answers to technical problems, folks in this
list have always tended dig deep and find tangible information related to the
email topic. I get that it is very easy to joke about the intelligence of those
who have made a decision we don’t agree with, but I don’t believe this topic is
nearly that cut and dried.
As Chuck mentioned, unfortunately this is a somewhat political topic. I don’t
understand why, other than the fact that some react more harshly to being told
they have to do something. This should be a scientific discussion. If
definitely shouldn’t be about public shame. We don’t know the medical situation
of those that chose not to participate in an experimental medical treatment.
Regards,
From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2021 1:02 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com >
Cc: Chuck McCown < ch...@go-mtc.com >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political
They could sponsor concerts and barbecues that only admit unvaccinated...
How can I get that fake news to be picked up by the junk news feeds?
From: Forrest Christian (List Account)
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2021 11:55 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political
I've wondered if it might be a good thing for the liberal side to start saying
"take the vaccine or not, we don't care - in fact we would prefer that you
don't so there are less of you to vote next go around".
On Fri, Jul 23, 2021 at 11:26 AM Carl Peterson < cpeter...@portnetworks.com >
wrote:
<blockquote>
That assumes IQ==Comon sense. Lots of smart people can be really dumb when it
comes to sports, religon, and politics. It seems a subset of people have
convinced themselves that vaccines, and specifically the covid vaccines, are
somehow a liberal thing.
On Fri, Jul 23, 2021 at 11:28 AM Chuck McCown via AF < af@af.afmug.com > wrote:
<blockquote>
If the covid variants kill only unvaccinated, then global IQ average will
increase, right? Always good when your team wins.
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