On Jul 23, 2021, at 1:59 PM, David Coudron
<david.coud...@advantenon.com> wrote:
Unfortunately I don’t know the particulars of typhoid Mary’s
situation. I understand a bit of the folk lore, but don’t only have
an idea of what that story is about. My basic understanding was
that an individual who knew they were sick was intentionally
infecting others. Certainly a despicable act if that was the
case. To better put that in the context of today’s situation I
would want to know these things:
1. Was there typhoid vaccine that was generally available?
2. What is the mortality rate of typhoid fever versus covid? I
suspect typhoid was significantly higher, but don’t have any data
to back that up.
3. I believe there is case law to suggest intentionally infecting
people is a pretty serious crime and after the initial stupid
college intentional infection parties, we don’t really have
people intentionally trying to infect others.
If we extend that argument to other diseases, will we now require flu
vaccine? It has always been a “good idea”, especially for those in
high risk health or age groups. But it has never been required. We
don’t even require vaccine for measles, shingles, and a myriad of
other annoying and/or dangerous diseases. And these have FDA
approved vaccines.
However, I would reiterate this:
If the vaccine works, and I have been vaccinated, why do I care if
others haven’t? Am I worried the vaccine doesn’t work? Do I think
it is necessary to force people to take an experimental drug for
their own good will against their will?
Regards,
*From:* Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com>
*Sent:* Friday, July 23, 2021 2:43 PM
*To:* David Coudron <david.coud...@advantenon.com>
*Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political
One question: Should Typhoid Mary have been allowed to just roam free?
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 23, 2021, at 1:37 PM, David Coudron
<david.coud...@advantenon.com
<mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> wrote:
Here is what I find particularly challenging about suggesting
that folks who have chosen not to take the vaccine are not that
smart.
1. Folks who do that never talk about that fact that this is not
an FDA approved medicine/vaccine. I took the Moderna
vaccine, the paperwork clearly stated several facts. Among
them are:
1. This is not FDA approved.
2. This “vaccine” has not been proven to prevent the
virus. While we likely all agree that there is a very
good likelihood that this “vaccine” will help prevent it,
it is far from a proven fact.
2. The argument is, “there should be no reason to think this
vaccine isn’t safe since people aren’t dying from taking the
vaccine”. Vaccines are a risk/reward type of medical
treatment. Every medicine you take has some level of side
effect. The vast majority of medicines have such negligible
side effects, that they are considered completely safe. The
FDA approval process exists to ensure we understand the
potential of serious side effects and drug interaction
issues. If you are 30 years old and folks are saying you
have to take this experimental drug to prevent this
incredibly small chance of you becoming seriously ill or
dying, it seems like an intelligent thing to say “I am not
sure the risk of getting seriously ill or dying from this
disease outweighs the risk of using an experimental drug”.
It used to be that people relied upon a conversation with
their doctor to determine personal risk of disease and use of
a drug. Apparently we no longer do that. We publicly
shame people into using experimental drugs.
3. Since it is not FDA approved, we don’t have a full
understanding of drug interactions with other medicines folks
need to take. We likely understand the very common
medicines, but, certainly not all. We have FDA approval
processes for good reason. If for example, you were under
40 and were taking seizure control medication, it would be
very fair to hold off on an experimental drug until it is
fully understood if the vaccine might lessen the
effectiveness of the seizure control medication. An
incredibly low risk of serious illness or death from the
virus could turn into a good chance of serious injury from
seizure. As far as I know data like that is certainly not
available yet.
4. Why do vaccinated people feel the need to belittle those that
have decided not to get vaccinated by an experimental
drug? Does it make them feel smarter? We have people not
getting flu vaccinations every year, and that is with FDA
approved medicine. But now all of a sudden it is OK to
ridicule folks that are making a decision based limited data
on an experimental drug for which the majority of the
population has a very low chance of serious illness or
death? And when they do ridicule folks, they never discuss
the facts at hand, or want to have a serious discussion about
the risk/reward of this particular vaccine. Two years from
now, with an FDA approval in place and a full understanding
of drug interactions and effectiveness of the vaccine the
conversation might look completely different. Right now, I
believe some very intelligent people are looking at the
risk/reward and saying “not now, but probably some day as
this will become the new yearly flu vaccine”. Until then,
my risk of virus related illness doesn’t warrant a decision
to take the vaccine.
5. Why are people that are vaccinated so obsessed with people
that aren’t vaccinated? For those of us that are
vaccinated, we are safe right? That was the point of taking
the vaccine.
6. Most of the science that seems most accurate right now points
to this being with us permanently like an influenza sort of
virus. It will show up every year with little mutations
that will require updates, or boosters, or yearly covid
shots. What ever you want to call them. Is really so
stupid to wait until this is FDA approved before
participating? If we have to do this without FDA approval,
why does that process even exist?
I have always appreciated this list because it is usually very
fact focused, and very good at exploring solutions to problems.
While some lists are very superficial and suffer from pat answers
to technical problems, folks in this list have always tended dig
deep and find tangible information related to the email topic.
I get that it is very easy to joke about the intelligence of
those who have made a decision we don’t agree with, but I don’t
believe this topic is nearly that cut and dried.
As Chuck mentioned, unfortunately this is a somewhat political
topic. I don’t understand why, other than the fact that some
react more harshly to being told they have to do something.
This should be a scientific discussion. If definitely shouldn’t
be about public shame. We don’t know the medical situation of
those that chose not to participate in an experimental medical
treatment.
Regards,
*From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Friday, July 23, 2021 1:02 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Cc:* Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political
They could sponsor concerts and barbecues that only admit
unvaccinated...
How can I get that fake news to be picked up by the junk news feeds?
*From:*Forrest Christian (List Account)
*Sent:*Friday, July 23, 2021 11:55 AM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political
I've wondered if it might be a good thing for the liberal side to
start saying "take the vaccine or not, we don't care - in fact we
would prefer that you don't so there are less of you to vote next
go around".
On Fri, Jul 23, 2021 at 11:26 AM Carl Peterson
<cpeter...@portnetworks.com <mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com>>
wrote:
That assumes IQ==Comon sense. Lots of smart people can be
really dumb when it comes to sports, religon, and politics.
It seems a subset**of people have convinced themselves that
vaccines, and specifically the covid vaccines, are somehow a
liberal thing.
On Fri, Jul 23, 2021 at 11:28 AM Chuck McCown via AF
<af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:
If the covid variants kill only unvaccinated, then global
IQ average will increase, right? Always good when your
team wins.
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