Hah On Mar 14, 2016 3:00 PM, "Jaime Solorza" <[email protected]> wrote:
> So I would call you Juan 2 3 > Or Number Juan > On Mar 14, 2016 1:40 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> But there should be a big gap between “what I believe” and “what the >> government should enforce on everyone else”. There are many things other >> people do that I don’t like, but would not want the government to restrict. >> >> I remember how strange it seemed when as a kid my family moved to a Latin >> American (and officially Catholic) country that my middle name had to be >> changed to Juan because it was the law that all children had to have one >> name from the Bible. Very minor example, but as an American, it seemed so >> strange that there was an official state religion enforced by law. Thank >> goodness they didn’t believe in stoning heretics to death, or enslaving >> women for sex. >> >> I am also confused at how some people strongly hold beliefs that seem >> incompatible. Like all life is sacred, but pro death penalty, pro war. >> Or limited government, libertarian, keep the government out of my life, but >> the government should definitely crack down on my neighbor who is doing >> something I disapprove of but doesn’t really impinge on my rights. How can >> black-or-white no-shades-of-grey people apparently pick and choose between >> black and white as it suits them, and not see any logical contradiction? >> >> This is how we get fiascos like the Terry Schiavo thing. It is >> unfortunate that her parents, and her husband who was the legal guardian, >> could not agree. But it became a very unseemly feeding frenzy for >> politicians. Even if I had very strong personally held beliefs about the >> matter, I don’t see how my beliefs should have been imposed on them, >> especially by the government. It’s bad enough when you have to make >> decisions like that for yourself or loved ones. If we’re going to start >> making those decisions for others and using the government to enforce them, >> it had better be very, very clearcut that it’s something that we want the >> government involved in. If it’s not so clear, then keep the government the >> hell out of our lives. Even if our neighbors might be doing stuff that we >> disapprove of. >> >> >> *From:* Bruce Robertson <[email protected]> >> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:01 PM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan >> >> *I would give a woman a mulligan for the first few weeks. * >> >> To clarify my previous post, me too. I am NOT in the camp that thinks >> abortion is okay at any time during the term of the pregnancy. >> >> On 03/14/2016 11:59 AM, [email protected] wrote: >> >> I am not in that category. I doubt most Catholics are either if you get >> them to level with you. >> Contraception is 100% OK with me. >> I don't think a Catholic business should be forced to provide them to >> their employees. >> >> But again, when rules/dogma come from the wizened masters that claim to >> hear God, we forget that sometimes he mumbles and sometimes the wizened >> masters make up what they don't actually hear. Centuries of the agendas >> and power plays of man have flavored religions. >> >> And if you truly want to get to minutia, I believe that life begins at >> the time of quickening. When the spirit enters the body. Sometime after >> conception. Some time before birth. I would give a woman a mulligan for >> the first few weeks. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Ken Hohhof >> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:52 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan >> >> I don't believe many people are actually pro-abortion. And I don't think >> Josh characterized it is a "handy solution". >> >> What I fail to understand is people who don't want others to have access >> to >> birth control, like condoms or birth control pills or even "morning >> after" >> pills. You may believe life begins at conception and apply that in your >> own >> life. But if you don't want others to have abortions, the most effective >> way to that goal is to accept that others might use contraception or >> family >> planning methods that are not 100% per your religious beliefs. >> >> I put the abstinence-only people in this same category. That is not a >> realistic approach, if your goal is really to reduce the number of >> abortions. It sounds a lot more like if you're going to have sex, you >> deserve to get pregnant, you slut >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] >> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:34 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan >> >> I used to believe like you. During my teen years, having lots of fun >> with >> the opposite sex, I figured abortion was a handy solution to a problem if >> it >> cropped up. >> >> Then I got married. My wife got pregnant. We went to the first >> ultrasound. >> I saw my daughter as the miniature human she was. Stretching her arms >> and >> sucking her tumb. All as 16 week. >> >> Then I saw the light... >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Josh Reynolds >> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:24 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan >> >> Sorry CORRECTION, **birth** not conception. >> >> I'm feeling groggy from the time shift, and have not had enough coffee. >> >> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Josh Reynolds >> mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Upon natural or medically induced conception. Until then it is an >> organism that receives sustenance from the mother's body, thus is part >> of the mother - and her decision. You don't have to agree with me, and >> that's fine, but you shouldn't force legislation preventing people >> from making decisions about their bodies and their children. That's >> for them to decide, and they have to live with the choices they make. >> >> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Cameron Crum mailto:[email protected] >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> So at what age should state sanctioned murder be stopped, or is all just >> up >> to the individual and their "belief"? >> >> On Mar 14, 2016 1:13 PM, "Bruce Robertson" mailto:[email protected] >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> No, I want to go back to persecution. It is persecution because you >> would >> be trying to carry out the wishes of the boss as you understand them. Not >> necessarily as I see those wishes. Therefore by supporting legislation >> that >> affects the population as a whole, you are imposing your beliefs upon me, >> against my will. I may have the equally valid belief that the boss >> upstairs >> wants us all to accept guidance, but ultimately make decisions for >> ourselves >> (and of course take responsibility for those decisions). Someone with >> such >> beliefs would only support legislation that would make decisions such as >> birth control, abortion, etc. completely up to each individual, her >> conscience, and her relationship with the boss. >> >> ~sigh~ I swore I would never get involved in a political or religious >> discussion. My apologies. >> >> On 03/13/2016 09:53 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: >> >> Nevermind the persecution thing, I didn’t fully read your post properly. >> >> From: Chuck McCown >> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:50 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >> >> If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky that created all of us >> hates the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop that via legislation. >> How is that persecution? Just trying to carry out the wishes of the >> boss. >> He has promised me a pretty nice apartment if I give it a good try. >> >> Persecution? >> >> From: Josh Reynolds >> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >> >> >> So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others via legislation, in >> a country created to escape persecution from religion? >> >> On Mar 13, 2016 11:38 PM, "Chuck McCown" mailto:[email protected] >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> Here is why a churches need to be involved with reproductive care, >> contraception, or abortion. >> >> If you believe there is a God, Creator, Savior etc. >> >Then if you believe that entity cares about these things (listed >> >above). >> >>Then if you believe that the mind of that entity has communicated its >> >> wishes with man. >> >>>Then if you believe that those wishes are contained in doctrine of >> >>> churches or bodies of scripture. >> >>>>Then the church and its doctrine trumps all laws of man. >> The church needs to be involved in all facets of life. If you believe >> the above. >> >> You can claim to be agnostic or atheistic but a smart person should hedge >> their bets against actually not knowing that they are totally right about >> that. Could be that every time you eat spaghetti you are committing a >> mortal sin. Could be. >> >> For me and mine, I will take my particular flavor of Christianity and do >> my thing, while you do your thing. >> But if I have an opportunity to legislate away things I consider mortal >> sins, I will try. >> >> >> >> >> >> From: Josh Reynolds >> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:54 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >> >> >> Why does any church need to be involved with reproductive care, >> contraception, or abortion? >> >> Those are medical issues. >> >> On Mar 13, 2016 6:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" >> mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Actually, my belief is here in the deep south we have a church on every >> corner. Let the churches handle it....they are more than capable. >> >> My tax dollars aren't needed for this. (or many other things) >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Ken Hohhof >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:18 PM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >> >> What many people who lose sleep over Planned Parenthood are actually >> upset about is they offer birth control. Some people obsess about poor >> people having sex without the punishment of getting pregnant. See this >> if >> you forgot: >> >> >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy >> >> I don’t understand how you can be extremely anti-abortion yet also >> extremely anti-contraception. Less unwanted pregnancies = less >> abortions. >> Which is the lesser evil? >> >> I think it comes down to some people are obsessed with sex, especially >> “other” people having sex. #nosyneighbors #getalife >> >> >> From: Josh Reynolds >> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:48 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >> >> >> Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think. >> >> On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" >> mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here. >> >> I don't care about gay marriage. I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay >> people. Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right >> telling >> them what they can or can't do. >> >> Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt. Now, I'm not so >> sure on that. When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had >> "come out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her >> mommy we thought that was odd. Quite a bit different now but it could >> still >> screw with a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage". >> >> It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to >> hell in this country. But then again, so many "traditional" things have >> gone to hell. How many women stay at home and take care of the family >> while >> dad goes to work? >> >> I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood. The videos pretty much >> got to me. It's MY TAX DOLLARS. Defund it. There are plenty of other >> non-government-funded entities who can do that work. >> >> Any tax is bad :) >> >> I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Josh Reynolds >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >> >> His stances: >> Gay marriage is wrong >> He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple >> Defund planned parenthood >> Raising corporate tax is bad >> Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles. >> Wants to drill in ANWR >> Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy. >> Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees. >> Votes for PATRIOT act over and over >> Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens >> Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare >> "Let's build a fence!" >> Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received >> hospital treatment >> >> Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me. >> >> On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof" mailto:[email protected] >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> Hey, I said I liked him. Just not full on man crush. >> >> I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed. There >> were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget. >> Seemed >> like the same old voodoo economics. >> >> So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin? At least Putin is >> supposedly an 8th degree black belt. He would probably take care of the >> protester himself. If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world, >> I’m not so sure. I think McCain could take him in a fair fight. Hell, >> Bernie could probably take him. I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo >> of >> the “kitchen debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure. >> >> http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev >> >> >> >> From: CBB - Jay Fuller >> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >> >> >> I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared on >> the national stage. Very impressed with him. Could almost call him my >> "man >> crush". I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about him >> Ken. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Ken Hohhof >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 2:04 PM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More >> AfterChicago Violence >> >> I think the "establishment" is missing why people are fed up with >> them, I'm >> not convinced it's about left or right. If I had to single out one >> person >> as the poster boy for why the establishment has failed us, it would be >> Mitch >> McConnell. All 4 leaders in Congress have only been worried about >> their own >> power and re-election, but McConnell is the worst of a bad bunch. >> >> I don't agree with Paul Ryan's economics or some of his politics, but >> I like >> what he has said since being elected Speaker. I would like to see if >> they >> are just words, or if he would translate them into actions. I don't >> think >> we will get to find out, election politics seem to have rendered him >> irrelevant. And Mitch the Turtle would have to be replaced with >> someone >> actually interested in governing. I wonder what conservative goals >> could >> have been accomplished in the 7 years Mitch has spent trying to make >> Obama >> fail no matter how much damage it causes. Tort reform? Modifications >> to >> Obamacare? Fix sequestration? Tax reform? Immigration reform? >> Mitch >> doesn't care. Mitch cares about Mitch. That's the problem with the >> establishment, they spend all their effort on getting elected and >> staying in >> power, they don't even pretend to do their job. And let me be clear, >> I'm >> not saying Pelosi, Reid and Boehner were much better, it's just >> McConnell is >> the most blatant hack of the bunch, every time I see him on TV I feel >> he is >> giving me the finger. >> >> I am probably fooling myself that Paul Ryan would be different, but I >> don't >> think we'll find out. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bill Prince >> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 1:40 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More >> After >> Chicago Violence >> >> IMO, Obama moved right, and the Republicans moved further to the >> right. >> >> bp >> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >> >> On 3/13/2016 6:01 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote: >> > Obama moved right as much as the Republicans moved left. > Everybody's >> > idea >> > of compromise these days is you come to where I am and I'll make a >> > deal. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> !DSPAM:2,56e70a1e256421332619011! >> >> >> >>
