Ha.. gay ones...yep we had our share of problems with pedophile priests....they need to be punished and kicked out... On Mar 14, 2016 2:20 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
> It was also accepted (as it probably is in much of the world) that the > church was involved in politics. As was the military and the university. > Just like families aspired to have one son (I assume the gay one) enter the > priesthood, one the military, and one go to the university and become a > doctor or lawyer. > > But the church, military, and universities each represented a certain > constituency and were expected to be involved in politics. As you might > guess the military represented the right and the universities the left and > the church represented, I don’t know, God? Oh, and there were lots of > strong men and demagogues populists. > > But the current Pope came from there and seems a nice fellow. > > > *From:* Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> > *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 3:06 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan > > > Hah > On Mar 14, 2016 3:00 PM, "Jaime Solorza" <losguyswirel...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> So I would call you Juan 2 3 >> Or Number Juan >> On Mar 14, 2016 1:40 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote: >> >>> But there should be a big gap between “what I believe” and “what the >>> government should enforce on everyone else”. There are many things other >>> people do that I don’t like, but would not want the government to restrict. >>> >>> I remember how strange it seemed when as a kid my family moved to a >>> Latin American (and officially Catholic) country that my middle name had to >>> be changed to Juan because it was the law that all children had to have one >>> name from the Bible. Very minor example, but as an American, it seemed so >>> strange that there was an official state religion enforced by law. Thank >>> goodness they didn’t believe in stoning heretics to death, or enslaving >>> women for sex. >>> >>> I am also confused at how some people strongly hold beliefs that seem >>> incompatible. Like all life is sacred, but pro death penalty, pro war. >>> Or limited government, libertarian, keep the government out of my life, but >>> the government should definitely crack down on my neighbor who is doing >>> something I disapprove of but doesn’t really impinge on my rights. How can >>> black-or-white no-shades-of-grey people apparently pick and choose between >>> black and white as it suits them, and not see any logical contradiction? >>> >>> This is how we get fiascos like the Terry Schiavo thing. It is >>> unfortunate that her parents, and her husband who was the legal guardian, >>> could not agree. But it became a very unseemly feeding frenzy for >>> politicians. Even if I had very strong personally held beliefs about the >>> matter, I don’t see how my beliefs should have been imposed on them, >>> especially by the government. It’s bad enough when you have to make >>> decisions like that for yourself or loved ones. If we’re going to start >>> making those decisions for others and using the government to enforce them, >>> it had better be very, very clearcut that it’s something that we want the >>> government involved in. If it’s not so clear, then keep the government the >>> hell out of our lives. Even if our neighbors might be doing stuff that we >>> disapprove of. >>> >>> >>> *From:* Bruce Robertson <br...@pooh.com> >>> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:01 PM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan >>> >>> *I would give a woman a mulligan for the first few weeks. * >>> >>> To clarify my previous post, me too. I am NOT in the camp that thinks >>> abortion is okay at any time during the term of the pregnancy. >>> >>> On 03/14/2016 11:59 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: >>> >>> I am not in that category. I doubt most Catholics are either if you get >>> them to level with you. >>> Contraception is 100% OK with me. >>> I don't think a Catholic business should be forced to provide them to >>> their employees. >>> >>> But again, when rules/dogma come from the wizened masters that claim to >>> hear God, we forget that sometimes he mumbles and sometimes the wizened >>> masters make up what they don't actually hear. Centuries of the agendas >>> and power plays of man have flavored religions. >>> >>> And if you truly want to get to minutia, I believe that life begins at >>> the time of quickening. When the spirit enters the body. Sometime after >>> conception. Some time before birth. I would give a woman a mulligan for >>> the first few weeks. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Ken Hohhof >>> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:52 PM >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan >>> >>> I don't believe many people are actually pro-abortion. And I don't >>> think >>> Josh characterized it is a "handy solution". >>> >>> What I fail to understand is people who don't want others to have access >>> to >>> birth control, like condoms or birth control pills or even "morning >>> after" >>> pills. You may believe life begins at conception and apply that in your >>> own >>> life. But if you don't want others to have abortions, the most >>> effective >>> way to that goal is to accept that others might use contraception or >>> family >>> planning methods that are not 100% per your religious beliefs. >>> >>> I put the abstinence-only people in this same category. That is not a >>> realistic approach, if your goal is really to reduce the number of >>> abortions. It sounds a lot more like if you're going to have sex, you >>> deserve to get pregnant, you slut >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: ch...@wbmfg.com >>> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:34 PM >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan >>> >>> I used to believe like you. During my teen years, having lots of fun >>> with >>> the opposite sex, I figured abortion was a handy solution to a problem >>> if it >>> cropped up. >>> >>> Then I got married. My wife got pregnant. We went to the first >>> ultrasound. >>> I saw my daughter as the miniature human she was. Stretching her arms >>> and >>> sucking her tumb. All as 16 week. >>> >>> Then I saw the light... >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Josh Reynolds >>> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:24 PM >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan >>> >>> Sorry CORRECTION, **birth** not conception. >>> >>> I'm feeling groggy from the time shift, and have not had enough coffee. >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Josh Reynolds >>> mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote: >>> >>> Upon natural or medically induced conception. Until then it is an >>> organism that receives sustenance from the mother's body, thus is part >>> of the mother - and her decision. You don't have to agree with me, and >>> that's fine, but you shouldn't force legislation preventing people >>> from making decisions about their bodies and their children. That's >>> for them to decide, and they have to live with the choices they make. >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Cameron Crum mailto:cc...@wispmon.com >>> <cc...@wispmon.com> wrote: >>> >>> So at what age should state sanctioned murder be stopped, or is all just >>> up >>> to the individual and their "belief"? >>> >>> On Mar 14, 2016 1:13 PM, "Bruce Robertson" mailto:br...@pooh.com >>> <br...@pooh.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> No, I want to go back to persecution. It is persecution because you >>> would >>> be trying to carry out the wishes of the boss as you understand them. >>> Not >>> necessarily as I see those wishes. Therefore by supporting legislation >>> that >>> affects the population as a whole, you are imposing your beliefs upon >>> me, >>> against my will. I may have the equally valid belief that the boss >>> upstairs >>> wants us all to accept guidance, but ultimately make decisions for >>> ourselves >>> (and of course take responsibility for those decisions). Someone with >>> such >>> beliefs would only support legislation that would make decisions such as >>> birth control, abortion, etc. completely up to each individual, her >>> conscience, and her relationship with the boss. >>> >>> ~sigh~ I swore I would never get involved in a political or religious >>> discussion. My apologies. >>> >>> On 03/13/2016 09:53 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: >>> >>> Nevermind the persecution thing, I didn’t fully read your post properly. >>> >>> From: Chuck McCown >>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:50 PM >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >>> >>> If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky that created all of >>> us >>> hates the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop that via legislation. >>> How is that persecution? Just trying to carry out the wishes of the >>> boss. >>> He has promised me a pretty nice apartment if I give it a good try. >>> >>> Persecution? >>> >>> From: Josh Reynolds >>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >>> >>> >>> So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others via legislation, >>> in >>> a country created to escape persecution from religion? >>> >>> On Mar 13, 2016 11:38 PM, "Chuck McCown" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com >>> <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Here is why a churches need to be involved with reproductive care, >>> contraception, or abortion. >>> >>> If you believe there is a God, Creator, Savior etc. >>> >Then if you believe that entity cares about these things (listed >>> >above). >>> >>Then if you believe that the mind of that entity has communicated its >>> >> wishes with man. >>> >>>Then if you believe that those wishes are contained in doctrine of >>> >>> churches or bodies of scripture. >>> >>>>Then the church and its doctrine trumps all laws of man. >>> The church needs to be involved in all facets of life. If you believe >>> the above. >>> >>> You can claim to be agnostic or atheistic but a smart person should >>> hedge >>> their bets against actually not knowing that they are totally right >>> about >>> that. Could be that every time you eat spaghetti you are committing a >>> mortal sin. Could be. >>> >>> For me and mine, I will take my particular flavor of Christianity and do >>> my thing, while you do your thing. >>> But if I have an opportunity to legislate away things I consider mortal >>> sins, I will try. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Josh Reynolds >>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:54 PM >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >>> >>> >>> Why does any church need to be involved with reproductive care, >>> contraception, or abortion? >>> >>> Those are medical issues. >>> >>> On Mar 13, 2016 6:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" >>> mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net <par...@cyberbroadband.net> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Actually, my belief is here in the deep south we have a church on every >>> corner. Let the churches handle it....they are more than capable. >>> >>> My tax dollars aren't needed for this. (or many other things) >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Ken Hohhof >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:18 PM >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >>> >>> What many people who lose sleep over Planned Parenthood are actually >>> upset about is they offer birth control. Some people obsess about poor >>> people having sex without the punishment of getting pregnant. See this >>> if >>> you forgot: >>> >>> >>> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy >>> >>> I don’t understand how you can be extremely anti-abortion yet also >>> extremely anti-contraception. Less unwanted pregnancies = less >>> abortions. >>> Which is the lesser evil? >>> >>> I think it comes down to some people are obsessed with sex, especially >>> “other” people having sex. #nosyneighbors #getalife >>> >>> >>> From: Josh Reynolds >>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:48 PM >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >>> >>> >>> Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think. >>> >>> On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" >>> mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net <par...@cyberbroadband.net> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here. >>> >>> I don't care about gay marriage. I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay >>> people. Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right >>> telling >>> them what they can or can't do. >>> >>> Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt. Now, I'm not so >>> sure on that. When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had >>> "come out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her >>> mommy we thought that was odd. Quite a bit different now but it could >>> still >>> screw with a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage". >>> >>> It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to >>> hell in this country. But then again, so many "traditional" things have >>> gone to hell. How many women stay at home and take care of the family >>> while >>> dad goes to work? >>> >>> I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood. The videos pretty much >>> got to me. It's MY TAX DOLLARS. Defund it. There are plenty of other >>> non-government-funded entities who can do that work. >>> >>> Any tax is bad :) >>> >>> I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Josh Reynolds >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >>> >>> His stances: >>> Gay marriage is wrong >>> He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple >>> Defund planned parenthood >>> Raising corporate tax is bad >>> Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles. >>> Wants to drill in ANWR >>> Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy. >>> Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees. >>> Votes for PATRIOT act over and over >>> Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens >>> Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare >>> "Let's build a fence!" >>> Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received >>> hospital treatment >>> >>> Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me. >>> >>> On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof" mailto:af...@kwisp.com >>> <af...@kwisp.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hey, I said I liked him. Just not full on man crush. >>> >>> I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed. There >>> were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget. >>> Seemed >>> like the same old voodoo economics. >>> >>> So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin? At least Putin is >>> supposedly an 8th degree black belt. He would probably take care of the >>> protester himself. If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the >>> world, >>> I’m not so sure. I think McCain could take him in a fair fight. Hell, >>> Bernie could probably take him. I was never fond of Nixon, but the >>> photo of >>> the “kitchen debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure. >>> >>> http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev >>> >>> >>> >>> From: CBB - Jay Fuller >>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Subject: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >>> >>> >>> I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared on >>> the national stage. Very impressed with him. Could almost call him my >>> "man >>> crush". I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about him >>> Ken. >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Ken Hohhof >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 2:04 PM >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More >>> AfterChicago Violence >>> >>> I think the "establishment" is missing why people are fed up with >>> them, I'm >>> not convinced it's about left or right. If I had to single out one >>> person >>> as the poster boy for why the establishment has failed us, it would be >>> Mitch >>> McConnell. All 4 leaders in Congress have only been worried about >>> their own >>> power and re-election, but McConnell is the worst of a bad bunch. >>> >>> I don't agree with Paul Ryan's economics or some of his politics, but >>> I like >>> what he has said since being elected Speaker. I would like to see if >>> they >>> are just words, or if he would translate them into actions. I don't >>> think >>> we will get to find out, election politics seem to have rendered him >>> irrelevant. And Mitch the Turtle would have to be replaced with >>> someone >>> actually interested in governing. I wonder what conservative goals >>> could >>> have been accomplished in the 7 years Mitch has spent trying to make >>> Obama >>> fail no matter how much damage it causes. Tort reform? Modifications >>> to >>> Obamacare? Fix sequestration? Tax reform? Immigration reform? >>> Mitch >>> doesn't care. Mitch cares about Mitch. That's the problem with the >>> establishment, they spend all their effort on getting elected and >>> staying in >>> power, they don't even pretend to do their job. And let me be clear, >>> I'm >>> not saying Pelosi, Reid and Boehner were much better, it's just >>> McConnell is >>> the most blatant hack of the bunch, every time I see him on TV I feel >>> he is >>> giving me the finger. >>> >>> I am probably fooling myself that Paul Ryan would be different, but I >>> don't >>> think we'll find out. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bill Prince >>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 1:40 PM >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More >>> After >>> Chicago Violence >>> >>> IMO, Obama moved right, and the Republicans moved further to the >>> right. >>> >>> bp >>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>> >>> On 3/13/2016 6:01 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote: >>> > Obama moved right as much as the Republicans moved left. > Everybody's >>> > idea >>> > of compromise these days is you come to where I am and I'll make a >>> > deal. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> !DSPAM:2,56e70a1e256421332619011! >>> >>> >>> >>>
