I used condoms in my glory days and my second girlfriend was on the pill....I don't believe in the abstinence because people are ruled by passion of moment and not reason...and the monthly cycle method is hit and miss. I might fall into what many call cafeteria Catholicism...Yes according to our rules I sinned back then but I am glad with have a repentance mechanism in place....unlike Jewish folks who repent once a year, we do it several times a year...so they pay wholesale, we pay retail!! Sas.
Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems Architect 915-861-1390 On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:59 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > I am not in that category. I doubt most Catholics are either if you get > them to level with you. > Contraception is 100% OK with me. > I don't think a Catholic business should be forced to provide them to > their employees. > > But again, when rules/dogma come from the wizened masters that claim to > hear God, we forget that sometimes he mumbles and sometimes the wizened > masters make up what they don't actually hear. Centuries of the agendas > and power plays of man have flavored religions. > > And if you truly want to get to minutia, I believe that life begins at the > time of quickening. When the spirit enters the body. Sometime after > conception. Some time before birth. I would give a woman a mulligan for > the first few weeks. > > -----Original Message----- From: Ken Hohhof > Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:52 PM > > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan > > I don't believe many people are actually pro-abortion. And I don't think > Josh characterized it is a "handy solution". > > What I fail to understand is people who don't want others to have access to > birth control, like condoms or birth control pills or even "morning after" > pills. You may believe life begins at conception and apply that in your > own > life. But if you don't want others to have abortions, the most effective > way to that goal is to accept that others might use contraception or family > planning methods that are not 100% per your religious beliefs. > > I put the abstinence-only people in this same category. That is not a > realistic approach, if your goal is really to reduce the number of > abortions. It sounds a lot more like if you're going to have sex, you > deserve to get pregnant, you slut > > > -----Original Message----- From: ch...@wbmfg.com > Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:34 PM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan > > I used to believe like you. During my teen years, having lots of fun with > the opposite sex, I figured abortion was a handy solution to a problem if > it > cropped up. > > Then I got married. My wife got pregnant. We went to the first > ultrasound. > I saw my daughter as the miniature human she was. Stretching her arms and > sucking her tumb. All as 16 week. > > Then I saw the light... > > -----Original Message----- From: Josh Reynolds > Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:24 PM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan > > Sorry CORRECTION, **birth** not conception. > > I'm feeling groggy from the time shift, and have not had enough coffee. > > On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> > wrote: > >> Upon natural or medically induced conception. Until then it is an >> organism that receives sustenance from the mother's body, thus is part >> of the mother - and her decision. You don't have to agree with me, and >> that's fine, but you shouldn't force legislation preventing people >> from making decisions about their bodies and their children. That's >> for them to decide, and they have to live with the choices they make. >> >> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Cameron Crum <cc...@wispmon.com> wrote: >> >>> So at what age should state sanctioned murder be stopped, or is all just >>> up >>> to the individual and their "belief"? >>> >>> On Mar 14, 2016 1:13 PM, "Bruce Robertson" <br...@pooh.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> No, I want to go back to persecution. It is persecution because you >>>> would >>>> be trying to carry out the wishes of the boss as you understand them. >>>> Not >>>> necessarily as I see those wishes. Therefore by supporting legislation >>>> that >>>> affects the population as a whole, you are imposing your beliefs upon >>>> me, >>>> against my will. I may have the equally valid belief that the boss >>>> upstairs >>>> wants us all to accept guidance, but ultimately make decisions for >>>> ourselves >>>> (and of course take responsibility for those decisions). Someone with >>>> such >>>> beliefs would only support legislation that would make decisions such as >>>> birth control, abortion, etc. completely up to each individual, her >>>> conscience, and her relationship with the boss. >>>> >>>> ~sigh~ I swore I would never get involved in a political or religious >>>> discussion. My apologies. >>>> >>>> On 03/13/2016 09:53 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: >>>> >>>> Nevermind the persecution thing, I didn’t fully read your post properly. >>>> >>>> From: Chuck McCown >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:50 PM >>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >>>> >>>> If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky that created all of >>>> us >>>> hates the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop that via legislation. >>>> How is that persecution? Just trying to carry out the wishes of the >>>> boss. >>>> He has promised me a pretty nice apartment if I give it a good try. >>>> >>>> Persecution? >>>> >>>> From: Josh Reynolds >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM >>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >>>> >>>> >>>> So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others via legislation, >>>> in >>>> a country created to escape persecution from religion? >>>> >>>> On Mar 13, 2016 11:38 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Here is why a churches need to be involved with reproductive care, >>>>> contraception, or abortion. >>>>> >>>>> If you believe there is a God, Creator, Savior etc. >>>>> >Then if you believe that entity cares about these things (listed >>>>> >above). >>>>> >>Then if you believe that the mind of that entity has communicated its >>>>> >> wishes with man. >>>>> >>>Then if you believe that those wishes are contained in doctrine of >>>>> >>> churches or bodies of scripture. >>>>> >>>>Then the church and its doctrine trumps all laws of man. >>>>> The church needs to be involved in all facets of life. If you believe >>>>> the above. >>>>> >>>>> You can claim to be agnostic or atheistic but a smart person should >>>>> hedge >>>>> their bets against actually not knowing that they are totally right >>>>> about >>>>> that. Could be that every time you eat spaghetti you are committing a >>>>> mortal sin. Could be. >>>>> >>>>> For me and mine, I will take my particular flavor of Christianity and >>>>> do >>>>> my thing, while you do your thing. >>>>> But if I have an opportunity to legislate away things I consider mortal >>>>> sins, I will try. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: Josh Reynolds >>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:54 PM >>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Why does any church need to be involved with reproductive care, >>>>> contraception, or abortion? >>>>> >>>>> Those are medical issues. >>>>> >>>>> On Mar 13, 2016 6:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" <par...@cyberbroadband.net >>>>> > >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Actually, my belief is here in the deep south we have a church on >>>>>> every >>>>>> corner. Let the churches handle it....they are more than capable. >>>>>> >>>>>> My tax dollars aren't needed for this. (or many other things) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Ken Hohhof >>>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:18 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >>>>>> >>>>>> What many people who lose sleep over Planned Parenthood are actually >>>>>> upset about is they offer birth control. Some people obsess about >>>>>> poor >>>>>> people having sex without the punishment of getting pregnant. See >>>>>> this if >>>>>> you forgot: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy >>>>>> >>>>>> I don’t understand how you can be extremely anti-abortion yet also >>>>>> extremely anti-contraception. Less unwanted pregnancies = less >>>>>> abortions. >>>>>> Which is the lesser evil? >>>>>> >>>>>> I think it comes down to some people are obsessed with sex, especially >>>>>> “other” people having sex. #nosyneighbors #getalife >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Josh Reynolds >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:48 PM >>>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" < >>>>>> par...@cyberbroadband.net> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't care about gay marriage. I'm not gay, I know a handful of >>>>>>> gay >>>>>>> people. Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right >>>>>>> telling >>>>>>> them what they can or can't do. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt. Now, I'm not >>>>>>> so >>>>>>> sure on that. When I was growing up there were few gay couples who >>>>>>> had >>>>>>> "come out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than >>>>>>> her >>>>>>> mommy we thought that was odd. Quite a bit different now but it >>>>>>> could still >>>>>>> screw with a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage". >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to >>>>>>> hell in this country. But then again, so many "traditional" things >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> gone to hell. How many women stay at home and take care of the >>>>>>> family while >>>>>>> dad goes to work? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood. The videos pretty >>>>>>> much >>>>>>> got to me. It's MY TAX DOLLARS. Defund it. There are plenty of >>>>>>> other >>>>>>> non-government-funded entities who can do that work. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any tax is bad :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: Josh Reynolds >>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> His stances: >>>>>>> Gay marriage is wrong >>>>>>> He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple >>>>>>> Defund planned parenthood >>>>>>> Raising corporate tax is bad >>>>>>> Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles. >>>>>>> Wants to drill in ANWR >>>>>>> Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy. >>>>>>> Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees. >>>>>>> Votes for PATRIOT act over and over >>>>>>> Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens >>>>>>> Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child >>>>>>> healthcare >>>>>>> "Let's build a fence!" >>>>>>> Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received >>>>>>> hospital treatment >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hey, I said I liked him. Just not full on man crush. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed. >>>>>>>> There >>>>>>>> were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget. >>>>>>>> Seemed >>>>>>>> like the same old voodoo economics. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin? At least Putin is >>>>>>>> supposedly an 8th degree black belt. He would probably take care >>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>> protester himself. If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the >>>>>>>> world, >>>>>>>> I’m not so sure. I think McCain could take him in a fair fight. >>>>>>>> Hell, >>>>>>>> Bernie could probably take him. I was never fond of Nixon, but the >>>>>>>> photo of >>>>>>>> the “kitchen debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: CBB - Jay Fuller >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM >>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> the national stage. Very impressed with him. Could almost call >>>>>>>> him my "man >>>>>>>> crush". I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about >>>>>>>> him Ken. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: Ken Hohhof >>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 2:04 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More >>>>>>>> AfterChicago Violence >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think the "establishment" is missing why people are fed up with >>>>>>>> them, I'm >>>>>>>> not convinced it's about left or right. If I had to single out one >>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>> as the poster boy for why the establishment has failed us, it would >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> Mitch >>>>>>>> McConnell. All 4 leaders in Congress have only been worried about >>>>>>>> their own >>>>>>>> power and re-election, but McConnell is the worst of a bad bunch. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't agree with Paul Ryan's economics or some of his politics, >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> I like >>>>>>>> what he has said since being elected Speaker. I would like to see >>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>> are just words, or if he would translate them into actions. I don't >>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>> we will get to find out, election politics seem to have rendered him >>>>>>>> irrelevant. And Mitch the Turtle would have to be replaced with >>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>> actually interested in governing. I wonder what conservative goals >>>>>>>> could >>>>>>>> have been accomplished in the 7 years Mitch has spent trying to make >>>>>>>> Obama >>>>>>>> fail no matter how much damage it causes. Tort reform? >>>>>>>> Modifications >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> Obamacare? Fix sequestration? Tax reform? Immigration reform? >>>>>>>> Mitch >>>>>>>> doesn't care. Mitch cares about Mitch. That's the problem with the >>>>>>>> establishment, they spend all their effort on getting elected and >>>>>>>> staying in >>>>>>>> power, they don't even pretend to do their job. And let me be >>>>>>>> clear, >>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>> not saying Pelosi, Reid and Boehner were much better, it's just >>>>>>>> McConnell is >>>>>>>> the most blatant hack of the bunch, every time I see him on TV I >>>>>>>> feel >>>>>>>> he is >>>>>>>> giving me the finger. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am probably fooling myself that Paul Ryan would be different, but >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>> think we'll find out. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Bill Prince >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 1:40 PM >>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More >>>>>>>> After >>>>>>>> Chicago Violence >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> IMO, Obama moved right, and the Republicans moved further to the >>>>>>>> right. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> bp >>>>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3/13/2016 6:01 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote: >>>>>>>> > Obama moved right as much as the Republicans moved left. > >>>>>>>> Everybody's >>>>>>>> > idea >>>>>>>> > of compromise these days is you come to where I am and I'll make a >>>>>>>> > deal. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> !DSPAM:2,56e643e613941725215664! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> > >
