Hi everybody thanks for the great responses to this question raised..indeed an interesting debate which I hope to become fruitful and not a war:) we need to find a way to finalize this because it is an important issue for our community. I`m not sure which one would be the right way to take a decision, anyway i think we could start by asking Lessig to clarify which aspects he thinks should be included in the translation..He is very busy launching his new book, but I guess I can give a try and try to have some words from him that might help our discussion.. hope this is ok for everybody best dona
On Oct 10, 9:53 am, Houssem Aoudi <[email protected]> wrote: > why not just taking an existing arab word… مجز seems to be the perfect word > for remix…. > > H. > > __ > Houssem AOUDI > TEDxCarthage Curator > Mail : [email protected] > Mobile : Tunisia: (+216) 20 201 201 / Qatar: (+974) 70 378 240 > Skype id : aoudi.houssem > Twitter : @Nayzek > web :www.TEDxCarthage.com > web : www.aoudi.net > > Le 10 oct. 2011 à 10:43, Mohammad Darwish a écrit : > > > I think rami had the right to add his comments, like everyone else did. > > > Thanks Rami for the explanation and your point of view. > > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rami Olwan > > Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 10:15 AM > > To: Pierre El Khoury > > Cc: CC Arab World المشاع الإبداعي; Hanna Kreitem; Hala Essalmawi; Hisham > > Almiraat; WaelAttili; Mohamad Najem; Houssem Aoudi; Howaida Nadim; > > [email protected]; Abdelmonam Kouka; Muneeb Arrabi; Layal > > Subject: Re: [cc-arab-world] Remix in Arabic > > > Dear Pierre, > > I know the question and I wanted to add my comments to the discussion too. > > I have already answered that in the survey and I support using the word مزج > > . > > Best regards, > > Rami Olwan > > PhD Candidate, Australian government scholar (2008) > > ARC Centre of Excellence for Creative Industries and Innovation > > LL.M. Columbia University School of Law, New York, U.S. > > Phone: +61 731389591 > > Fax: +61 731389395 > > Mobile: +61 413743395 > > E-mail: [email protected] > > Website:http://www.olwan.org > > Address: Level 1, Margaret Street > > Brisbane QLD 4000 > > Australia > > > From: Pierre El Khoury <[email protected]> > > To: Rami Olwan <[email protected]> > > Cc: CC Arab World المشاع الإبداعي <[email protected]>; Hanna > > Kreitem <[email protected]>; Hala Essalmawi <[email protected]>; > > Hisham Almiraat <[email protected]>; WaelAttili <[email protected]>; > > Mohamad Najem <[email protected]>; Houssem Aoudi > > <[email protected]>; Howaida Nadim <[email protected]>; > > "[email protected]" <[email protected]>; "[email protected]" > > <[email protected]>; Abdelmonam Kouka > > <[email protected]>; Muneeb Arrabi <[email protected]>; Layal > > <[email protected]> > > Sent: Monday, 10 October 2011 8:54 AM > > Subject: Re: [cc-arab-world] Remix in Arabic > > Dera Rami, > > The question is: what is the translation of Remix in Arabic. > > Where is your answer? > > Pierre El Khoury, DEA, LL.M, Ph.D > > > On Oct 9, 2011, at 13:09, Rami Olwan <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi all, > > > I want to comment on what has been discussed already. Sorry I am late in > > replying. > > > Remix culture is a growing movement to create new artistic and creative > > work by combining elements of existing work, which is substantially > > supported through inte and digital technologies. Remix is a key feature of > > the data-driven world we now inhabit. Remix culture is no longer seen as a > > fringe activity; rather, it is a methodology that underpins the > > construction of knowledge in the internet age. Large corporations, > > governments, NGOs, individuals and education institutions are using the > > internet to access data research materials and Public Sector Information > > (PSI) as part of their everyday activities. > > > Professor Lawrence Lessig used the term remix extensively in his latest > > book Remix: Making Art and Commerce Thrive in the Hybrid Economy (2008). He > > was not the first to coin the term that was popular in the music industry > > where remixers and samplers were given maximum flexibility under the > > copyright law. This has changed in a series of cases in the US since 1980s, > > and most importantly in 2004 (US Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit) > > where it was held that remixers should ask for permission from copyright > > owners every time they need to remix and create new work. > > I think we really do not need to worry so much now about finding the proper > > legal term in Arabic for the word remix. This is because the term was > > originally used outside the legal arena and the six CC licenses (the legal > > code) does not include the term and require its translation to Arabic. > > > It is important to have in the future a policy to follow in relation to the > > translation of English terms to Arabic. I am not sure if it is a good > > approach to translate the word as it is in English and write it in Arabic. > > I believe that Arabic language is rich in words, and we can find > > appropriate translation although sometimes it might be hard and we need to > > be creative. > > > We need to differentiate between when we need to translate the word for > > general use and when we want to find appropriate legal terminology for > > porting the CC licenses into local jurisdiction. It is suggested that > > lawyers give their legal opinion in the later case. We can translate a > > certain English word to Arabic and begin to use and spread it to be > > acceptable and common between our CC users and community. > > > As for the translation of the term Creative Commons to Arabic, I think that > > the matter has been discussed and agreed upon. I believe that even lawyers > > can have different opinions in relation to legal translation, and we need > > to move forward in relation to this matter. > > We have to build upon each other’s work so we can create a CC Arab world > > project that can help us all. We should all work together to achieve that > > goal. > > > Best, > > Rami Olwan > > > PhD Candidate, Australian government scholar (2008) > > ARC Centre of Excellence for Creative Industries and Innovation > > Project Leader Creative Commons Jordan > > LL.M. Columbia University School of Law, New York, U.S. > > Phone: +61 731389591 > > Fax: +61 731389395 > > Mobile: +61 413743395 > > E-mail: [email protected] > > Website:http://www.olwan.org > > Address: Level 1, Margaret Street > > Brisbane QLD 4000 > > Australia > > > From: Abdelmonam Kouka <[email protected]> > > To: Pierre El Khoury <[email protected]> > > Cc: Hanna Kreitem <[email protected]>; Hala Essalmawi > > <[email protected]>; Hisham Almiraat <[email protected]>; Wael > > Attili <[email protected]>; Mohamad Najem <[email protected]>; > > Houssem Aoudi <[email protected]>; Howaida Nadim <[email protected]>; > > "[email protected]" <[email protected]>; "[email protected]" > > <[email protected]> > > Sent: Wednesday, 5 October 2011 5:52 AM > > Subject: Re: [cc-arab-world] Remix in Arabic > > Salem, synthesis means: تأليف and توليف is not تأليف it is a combination > > between تأليف and توفيق Mr Wael said exactly: > > > أقترح إستخدام كلمة > > توليف > > > وهي تجمع بين التأليف ووالتوفيق بين شيئين لإيجاد شيء جديد it is better than > > using 3 arabic words (or at least two) to explain only one word in english! > > 2011/10/4 Pierre El Khoury <[email protected]> > > Dear all, I just want to jump into this discussion to give my opinion from > > a legal point of view. I will take back all of the arabic expressions in > > the poll and explain why none of the proposed terms is accurate: مزج: > > means blending/mingle/incorporate/mixing-up > > إعادة مزج: means re-blending / re-mingle / re-incorporate / re-mixing-up > > توليف: synthesis > > تهجين: hybridization > > خلط: mixing > > إعادة خلط: re-mixing Now what does the word Remix mean? "A remix is an > > alternative version of a recorded song, made from an original version. This > > term is also used for any alterations of media other than song (film, > > literature, beverages etc.)" (wikipedia) This means making an alternative > > copy after alteration of the original version; and alteration means an > > event that occurs when something passes from one state or phase to another. > > So here we need an expression that explains the three following things: > > an original version / an alteration of it / and the result, i.e. the > > alternative copy None of all the proposed Arabic terms indicates such > > triple meaning. What should be the Arabic meaning of Remix in this case? > > In Arabic the word used to indicate an original version of a work > > including many instruments, tools, persons, works, parts...etc is تشكيلة > > (i.e. assortment, set...). The Arabic expression (التشكيلات الموسيقية) is > > used to indicate the music compositions per se (with or without lyrics). At > > a certain extent, this expression could be extended to incorporate any work > > (artistic or literary) other than music, and to indicate the work itself. > > Sometimes we use it also to indicate choreography (تشكيلات رقص). So, before > > the “remix”, there was a “mix”, i.e. the original version. In this case the > > original version would stand for «تشكيل » in Arabic (تشكيل = > > forming/formation/modeling), and the “remix” after alteration would stand > > for «اعادة تشكيل ».But, to avoid any confusion, I would say why not use the > > word remix in Arabic letters in brackets after the Arabic legal meaning of > > “Remix”, thus I second Mohammad Darwish proposition, and the Arabic meaning > > of Remix in the deeds would be: "اعادة تشكيل (ريمكس)" Here again, if the > > crowd votes for another expression, unfortunately in a numerical democracy > > I cannot alone “democratically” beat all the others even if my opinion was > > the right one from a legal point of view. (This happened in Qatar where the > > issue was the meaning of “Creative Commons” in Arabic. I accepted not > > because المشاع الابداعي is the right term legally speaking but because the > > crowd chose it). Regards, > > > --- Pierre El Khoury, Dr. Secteur 5, Rue 21, Imm.3 Baouchrieh - Beyrouth > > LIBAN cel. +961 3125538 -------- 44 Via Albano 00179 Roma ITALIA cel.+39 > > 3406968281 > > 2011/10/3 Hanna Kreitem <[email protected]> > > Or simply, answer the poll below: > > > If you have trouble viewing or submitting this form, you can fill it out > > online:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dDJ6clBoVzdTVjdX... > > إستفتاء سريع > > > تعريب كلمة > > ... > > read more » -- لقد تلقيت هذه الرسالة لأنك مشترك في المجموعة "CC Arab World المشاع الإبداعي" من مجموعات Google. للنشر في هذه المجموعة، أرسل بريدًا إلكترونيًا إلى [email protected] لإلغاء اشتراكك في هذه المجموعة، أرسل رسالة إلكترونية إلى [email protected]. للحصول على مزيد من الخيارات، يمكنك الانتقال إلى هذه المجموعة على العنوان http://groups.google.com/group/cc-arab-world?hl=ar.
