Hi Bill, Great post as always.
>From you post, "....Oh, just in case you missed it. This is a marketing decision. The decision to kick out the voice IEs was made by someone (or some group) that has no freakin' idea how much time, energy, money, and effort people put into getting an IE, any IE. Well, maybe they know about the money bit because they have to be aware that the Voice IE had a higher average attempt rate...." I am wondering about this bit concerning "marketing". I trust you have a credible source for this. I don't doubt that the name changing stuff is for brand and marketing reason. I am not so sure that the real reason to consciously not providing the smooth transition for the current CCIE Voice holder is because of the marketing reason. (**Note: I must stress that I did not use the term Marketing team) I don't think it is in the Marketing team's interest, one way or another, whether a "grandfather" status is given. I think it is **much** easier to adopt the traditional method of "grandfathering" the cert, than to go against that tradition. It could be as simple as an oversight, but if it is deliberate, then I am curious to see what factor contribute the most to the final decision. I don't think **money** from test taker is a serious part of it. ($6 - $10 millions is not significant enough for the company of that size) Any "insider" viewpoint would be much welcome! Regards, --Somphol. --Somphol On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 2:07 AM, William Bell <b...@ucguerrilla.com> wrote: > My response to Cisco via my blog. Tweeted to @LearningatCisco. Just more > line noise for them to review and/or toss. > > CCIE Needs its Voice Back http://bit.ly/138dBGS > #FixCCIEVoice<https://twitter.com/search?q=%23FixCCIEVoice> > > -- > William Bell, CCIE #38914 > blog: http://ucguerrilla.com > Follow me on twitter @ucguerrilla > > > > > On May 31, 2013, at 4:45 AM, Ken Wyan <kew...@gmail.com> wrote: > > There's a serious fault with this new announcement. > > We can't say this new blueprint as CCIE Collaboration & it should be CCIE > Voice version 4. CCIE Voice track should be allowed to continue with this > new v4 blueprint. > > If Cisco want to add another CCIE Collaboration Track they have to add > additional products such as WebEx Server , VCS , Telepresence MSE , > Telepresence Multipoint Switch , Telepresence Server , Telepresence Manager > , TMS & suitable endpoints. > > Then current CCIE Voice guys will be more than happy to complete their > Collaboration certification & become dual CCIEs. It will be definitely a > career advancement path for them. > > If Cisco can call this new blueprint as "CCIE Collaboration" ; why can't > they call all current voice CCIE's as Collaboration CCIEs.? > > Ken > > > > > > On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Mohammed Al-Assadi < > m_alass...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> Ben e-mail >> >> be...@cisco.com >> >> >> >> > From: brian.sch...@vitalsite.com >> > To: rrcr...@yahoo.com; leslie.me...@lvs1.com >> > Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 13:29:14 +0000 >> > CC: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com >> >> > Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced >> > >> > It is Ben Ng. Found his linked in profile below which describes his >> position in Cisco. >> > >> > www.linkedin.com/pub/ben-ng/3/509/940 >> > >> > Profile on the Cisco site. >> > >> > >> https://www.cisco.com/web/learning/le31/communities/netpro/bios/benng.html >> > >> > Anyone have better contact info to send him respectful and thoughtful >> arguments on this? >> > >> > Brian >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com [mailto: >> ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com] On Behalf Of Rrcrumm >> > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:11 AM >> > To: Leslie Meade >> > Cc: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com; vma...@ipexpert.com >> > Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced >> > >> > Ben Ng comes to mind >> > >> > On May 29, 2013, at 7:28 AM, Leslie Meade <leslie.me...@lvs1.com> >> wrote: >> > >> > > The question is... what if anything can we do ? >> > > Where would we start.. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -------- Original message -------- >> > > From: Mark Holloway <m...@markholloway.com> >> > > Date: >> > > To: Bill Lake <whl...@gmail.com> >> > > Cc: OSL Group <ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com>,Vik Malhi >> > > <vma...@ipexpert.com> >> > > Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially >> > > announced >> > > >> > > >> > > Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to >> remain CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is >> Voice and Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look >> at it, it all falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the >> name of the new CCIE really should be anyway. The core of the Voice >> blueprint is still there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a >> refresh of current products, not a forklift of one technology replacing >> another. >> > > >> > > In my opinion this was too harsh of a move to retire Voice and start >> over again with Collaboration. There are too many similarities between the >> two. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On May 29, 2013, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lake <whl...@gmail.com<mailto: >> whl...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> > > >> > > Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they >> retire your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or >> lab. If this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag. >> > > >> > > That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the >> first from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have >> several others. See here with the snippet. Now the second is a wiki so we >> would want official confirmation. >> > > >> > > https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226 >> > > >> > > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_ >> > > tracks >> > > Retired CCIE tracks >> > > >> > > Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by >> Cisco. These are: >> > > >> > > * WAN Switching CCIE (Essentially a specialisation focusing on the >> IGX/BPX switch products, which had been acquired as part of the StrataCom< >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StrataCom> acquisition) >> > > * ISP Dial CCIE >> > > * SNA/IP Integration CCIE (aka CCIE Blue) >> > > * Design CCIE (NOTE: The CCIE Design and CCDE are completely >> different design tests in format and subjects examined) >> > > >> > > People who hold these now-retired certifications can remain CCIEs, >> provided they continue to take recertification exams. They now hold the >> title "CCIE", rather than CCIE Security, or some other specialization. >> > > >> > > So if we can get official confirmation that we won't be stripped of >> CCIE if you pass the voice lab, it might be good, for those of us that have >> already passed we don't get a chance to change our minds for those that >> have yet to pass, this might be incentive to change your goal. >> > > >> > > Bill >> > > >> > > >> > > On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:29 AM, m george <m.george00...@gmail.com >> <mailto:m.george00...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> > > Vik, >> > > >> > > A 2nd grader can pass RS/Sec/SP much much easier than Voice IE. Voice >> is still the toughest one & i know some double IE's who couldn't pass >> Voice. If Cisco has lost faith in re-cert, that should apply to every >> track, not just Voice. >> > > >> > > Naturally, they should have renamed Certification to >> Voice/Collaboration or Voice/Video etc & introduced new version. If they >> had to do this retiring thing, why didn't they do when they introduced V3 >> from V2 ? Old days of Call Manager based on Windows & literally everything >> based on windows, Analog endpoints/VGs/ATAs etc. Retiring CCIE Voice makes >> no sense whatsoever whether be it from marketing point of view or any >> other. Why can't big buck makers at Cisco just rename a Cert rather than do >> something completely rubbish. >> > > >> > > With just one announcement, they have made many people lose faith in >> Certification process. I am sure Voice labs will be the most deserted labs >> until Feb 2014. >> > > >> > > At the end of day, we can only request Cisco to "re-consider" this >> decision. I hope folks concerned "collaborate" & put their suggestions >> forward on Cisco Support Community & direct to Cisco Certification teams so >> they "realize" what they are doing is NOT right. >> > > >> > > I will take some months for us to digest this news. >> > > >> > > Thanks >> > > >> > > On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Vik Malhi <vma...@ipexpert.com >> <mailto:vma...@ipexpert.com>> wrote: >> > > As I said before - I would think product marketing had something to >> say about this. Just my opinion. Why for the last 4 years has there been a >> lack of Microsoft products in the exam? Are Microsoft are not relevant or >> it Marketing bullying the content team? >> > > >> > > At the same time there are many folks out there with a voice IE who >> can't spell SIP. So what do you do about those folks? >> > > >> > > Historically Cisco have trusted their recertification process as a >> valid check and balance. >> > > >> > > It looks like they have lost a bit of faith in the written exams as a >> valid means to recertification- and that is no surprise to any of us as we >> all know a 2nd grader could pass one of those exams (and I don't condone >> the means through which that is possible). >> > > >> > > When the dust has settled I will be advising all existing voice IE's >> two things: look at this as an extra challenge that will reap extra reward >> and secondly - diversify. Collaboration expertise in the very literal sense >> cannot be confined to a monolithic single vendor application time test that >> is going to occur . I would have thought a true collaboration expert would >> (if not now, never) be encouraged to seek skills and experience from a >> wider spectrum of vendors. >> > > >> > > Rant over. >> > > >> > > On May 28, 2013, at 20:14, Hesham Abdelkereem < >> heshamcentr...@gmail.com<mailto:heshamcentr...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> > > >> > > Yes its really frustrating what Cisco is doing to us. >> > > Ok let me tell you this. >> > > People now have invested a lot of money in pursuing their CCIE Voice >> > > that includes (Verious Workbook fees , Rack Rentals , Home Lab >> building , travel expenses and Lab fees attempts for whatever times) So >> when people achieve CCIE Voice nowadays a year or two later it would be >> considered old and grandfathered. >> > > Also , Cisco has released a new lab for 2 months while they are >> planning to abolish the whole syllabus. >> > > Why they do that to us???? They already make money out of everything >> especially lab multiple times of lab attempts per each person. >> > > >> > > CCIE Voice achievers has to send cisco request for Migration without >> Lab test. >> > > CCVP it was automatically migrated to CCNP Voice without any >> additional tests. >> > > CCNA is migrated to CCNA R/S without any additional tests. >> > > In case of Video part then I suggest whether they force CCIE Voice >> people to make CCNA VIDEO or CCNP Video if they will release or they make >> just a migration lab track that includes VIDEO stuff only for a cheaper fee >> something like $500. >> > > >> > > Thats same for MICROSOFT they abolished MCSE to change it to MCITP >> people usually just add 2 tracks to become full MCITP same when they >> migrate to new MCSE (Microsoft Certified Solutions Experts) there is only >> an upgrade track rather than taking the whole 5 tracks again. >> > > >> > > >> > > Cisco obviously has to do something like that.It's really unfair >> retiring the whole cisco voice totally. >> > > Guys to make the new Collaboration lab that would cost anyone over >> 50K to buy telepresence , X9XX routers stuff , 9971 Video Phones , TV's and >> etc.. >> > > Even the rack rentals would be 5 times the old voice track as the >> equipment would be way more expensive. >> > > >> > > Seriously , We have to agree all of us from multiple different voice >> > > study group to have a migration track to Collaboration please share >> > > your thoughts guys [X] >> > > >> > > >> > > On 28 May 2013 18:56, Mark Holloway <m...@markholloway.com<mailto: >> m...@markholloway.com>> wrote: >> > > Bummer, I was really hoping CCIE Voice candidates would transition to >> Collaboration without any additional lab exams. >> > > >> > > On May 28, 2013, at 7:08 PM, Vik Malhi <vma...@ipexpert.com<mailto: >> vma...@ipexpert.com>> wrote: >> > > >> > >> For my initial reaction read here: >> > >> >> > >> http://bit.ly/12MNK5t >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Vik Malhi – CCIE #13890 >> > >> Managing Partner - IPexpert, Inc. >> > >> >> > >> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444 ext 420 >> <tel:%2B1.810.326.1444%20ext%20420> >> > >> Fax: +1.810.454.0130<tel:%2B1.810.454.0130> >> > >> Mailto: vma...@ipexpert.com<mailto:vma...@ipexpert.com> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, >> > >> please visit www.ipexpert.com<http://www.ipexpert.com/> >> > >> >> > >> Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out >> > >> www.PlatinumPlacement.com <http://www.platinumplacement.com/>< >> http://www.platinumplacement.com/> >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, >> > > please visit www.ipexpert.com<http://www.ipexpert.com/> >> > > >> > > Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out >> > > www.PlatinumPlacement.com <http://www.platinumplacement.com/>< >> http://www.platinumplacement.com/> >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, >> > > please visit www.ipexpert.com<http://www.ipexpert.com/> >> > > >> > > Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out >> > > www.PlatinumPlacement.com <http://www.platinumplacement.com/>< >> http://www.platinumplacement.com/> >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, >> > > please visit www.ipexpert.com<http://www.ipexpert.com/> >> > > >> > > Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out >> > > www.PlatinumPlacement.com <http://www.platinumplacement.com/>< >> http://www.platinumplacement.com/> >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, >> > > please visit www.ipexpert.com<http://www.ipexpert.com> >> > > >> > > Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out >> > > www.PlatinumPlacement.com <http://www.platinumplacement.com/>< >> http://www.PlatinumPlacement.com <http://www.platinumplacement.com/>> >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, >> > > please visit www.ipexpert.com >> > > >> > > Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out >> > > www.PlatinumPlacement.com <http://www.platinumplacement.com/> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, >> please visit www.ipexpert.com >> > >> > Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? 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Check out >> www.PlatinumPlacement.com <http://www.platinumplacement.com/> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please >> visit www.ipexpert.com >> >> Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out >> www.PlatinumPlacement.com <http://www.platinumplacement.com/> >> > > _______________________________________________ > For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please > visit www.ipexpert.com > > Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out > www.PlatinumPlacement.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please > visit www.ipexpert.com > > Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out > www.PlatinumPlacement.com >
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