Yeah I agree alot with Pablo.

ASP has run time advantages up until recently with better speed throughput
on pure pages served at once... but it misses caching database stuff as well
as other things we take for granted...

Code complexity due to syntax is severely out of whack on ASP like most
other languages... CF does extremely well in this regard...

Debugging ASP like other languages is a nightmare due to syntax - one of the
leading cause of broken code... CF does a good job of throwing errors
typically that make sense in English... very straightforward, less
programming syntax approach..

The cost of CF app server is $500-5000 depending on your needs... Look at
something like IBM's WebSphere and you will be sticker shocked...  JRUN has
always done well to combat the Java-oriented favoring crowed...

CF's server license cost will be saved on one small project in human capital
undoubtedly.... Things like session tracking, and load balancing are two
things that drive everyone's apps into oblivion cost wise and are mainly
handled out of box... I have sat and participated in large Java development
efforts... I found myself saying things like well in CF I can do that
natively... While these poor, very smart people scrambled to homebrew
things...  I mean they built everything... One of my favorite was a query
cache piece... Ahh yeah CF has it built in.. How much did we pay for that?

I would say a small development team with CF can produce a body of work
typically far larger and with more relative complexity at a lower cost and
in less time due to the logical simplification of syntax of CF...

Sure, its the scripting vs. programming argument about to raise up.. But
producing 40% more code to do the same basic things becomes a very bad idea
always from my perspective... So things like PHP and ASP still have a ways
to go to remove their C 'like' syntax as I think they try to badly
emulate...

Let's face it... Most web applications are simply about replicating basic
tasks humans do... as that changes more interface will be made with XML...
Things like EDI are faltering due to the power of the web and non
proprietary rapid - do it now mentality... It will go across business to
other things undoubtedly... CF apps will involve more business and less just
fetch and display as most is now...  There are still tons of things needing
solved with Fetch and Display though... Free the information!

To win you have to be responsive and reliable... CF meets these criteria...

-paris
Paris Lundis
Founder
Areaindex, L.L.C.
http://www.areaindex.com
http://www.pubcrawler.com
(p) 1-212-655-4477
[finding the future in the past, passing the future in the present]
[connecting people, places and things]

-----Original Message-----
From: Pablo Varando [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 8:14 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP


You know to this day it still amazes me things people say! Kinda like the
old "Mac is better than Microsoft", or even better "Microsoft is better than
Mac". C'mon we all know Linux is better ;)

ColdFusion and ASP are tool that you use to get things done. Each has it's
pros and it's cons.

If you are working to meet a deadline, ColdFusion is your best solution, if
you are looking to charge your customer with more hours of work from a
project ASP is better.

In truth ColdFusion is much more mature (Sincee it has actually been around
longer in the market) than ASP and therefore it most ways behaves better. I
wonder where ASP would be if Allaire would of been as big a Microsoft when
it was released? I mean think about the comparison of companies! Yes,
ColdFusion costs money, ASP can be plugged in. For ASP you need add-ons, and
in some cases you also do with CF (CFX Tags, etc...). But in truth knowing
both ASP and ColdFusion (actually started with ASP... [needless to say I
cannot even remember those days anymore ;)] I've really seen ColdFusion do
things in half the time that ASP do.

I still to this day believe that the languages are tools we use to achieve
the things we want or need, if you want to use ASP, that's your choice, just
don't knock one or the other.

I personally prefer Coldfusion simply because in my opinion it's much more
powerful, scalable and faster. It takes a lot less time to build my
applications and even better when I hire an entry level CF programmer, it's
MUCH MUCH easier to get them going on the coding. Not to mention that
ColdFusion has the greatest Community online. :)

Well, that was just my two cents on the matter...

Pablo Varando
http://www.cfpablo.com
http://www.easycfm.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Weeg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 4:47 PM
Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP


> speak for yourself matt, since you dont
> have confidence in your work being the biggest
> baddest web apps in the world, it doesnt
> surprise me that you dont find cf as the same.
>
> its a shame, a darn shame, you seem to be a pretty
> smart guy but are way, way too damn Opinionated and
> in to yourself, even for your own good. if you spent
> half as much time writing cf code as you do writing
> bitter emails to this list, you might be able to
> code some of the biggest baddest web apps in the world, like
> the rest of us do!
>
> tony
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 7:20 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP
>
>
> > anyhow, the truth of the matter is this....if i can
> > develop rich cf applications for companies
> > in half the time, that it might take an asp coder
> > to do it, with half the code, i will, and until something
> > better comes along, thats what im doing...
> >
> I am not disagreeing that CF is faster to develop in. I am simply
> pointing out that it is not because one particular feature takes less
> lines to code in CF than another language. I suspect that just as much
> time is spent in another language learning an email library's API as is
> wasted by CFers trying to figure why cfmail doesn't do what it is
> supposed to.
>
> > of course there is other code to the cfmail tag, what idiot
> > wouldnt know that?  but the point was, from a developers
> > prospective, why waste your time on asp or php or anything
> > like that, when you can simply make the BIGGEST BADDEST
> > web apps in the world, with an easy to use tag based markup
> > language.
> >
> Hrm, last time I check the biggest baddest web apps in the world weren't
> written in CF.
>
> > i didnt ask the toyota dealer if he used craftsman tools to build my
> > celica, i simply asked him if it worked, and when i turned
> > the ignition on, it worked, i was pleased.
> >
> I don't think that is really a valid analogy.
>
> -Matt
>
>
>

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