Oh come on Louie, I know your the real Messiah, after all I should know I've
followed a few.
K
----- Original Message -----
From: "Louie Belt"
To:
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 7:25 PM
Subject: RE: Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735]
> I have had numerous requests and have been unable to help everyone or
answer
> everyone's questions. I do not have the time to help all that ask. I'll
be
> the first to admit that I have "ignored a number of email message due to
> time constraints. But you will also find a number of people that I have
> helped and some that I continue to help in a very focused manner.
>
> I'm not applying for saint-hood and don't intend to, but I don't have time
> to answer every individual request.
>
> My responses would be the same that I have seen on this site a multitude
of
> times:
>
> As for books:
>
> TCP/IP Volume I and Volume II are a must.
>
> Caslow's 2nd edition is also a must have.
>
> Halibi is good for theory but lacks good examples with router configs.
>
> McGraw Hill's Bridging, DLSW+ and Desktop Protocols is a must as well
(skip
> the appletalk section)
>
> Stay away from the CCIE all in one LAB study guide - it is a waste of
time.
>
>
> CCBootcamp still offers the best labs for preparation, Mentor labs is OK
for
> small practice labs on specific issues.
>
> Use the documentation CD to find all answers - no matter how painful it
is.
> Practice timing and methodology. Intermix IOS versions in you lab. And of
> course practice, practice, practice - time managment is critical.
>
>
> Louie
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> Cisco Kidd
> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 11:57 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735]
>
>
> I don't want to bash you Louie but I sent you an email a couple of months
> ago and asked for some opinions on what books I should purchase for the
> CCIE lab( I supplied a list of the ones I thought) and if the study
> methods I was employing were adequate in preparation for the lab and
> didn't get a response ( I didn't ask for specifics such as IOS verions on
> the lab or topics covered in your lab) I know that you are probably busy
> as a CCIE, but I just want you and everyone else to know that you are not
> as helpful as you advertise yourself to be.
>
>
>
> >From: "Louie Belt" >Reply-To: "Louie Belt" >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: RE: Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735] >Date: Sat, 2 Jun
> 2001 23:06:15 -0400 > >Yes you are wrong (about my perspective). I have
> helped several engineers >study for and pass the CCIE written as well as
> the lab. My concern is in >preserving the value of the cert. As for
> dog-eat-dog I'll help anyone who is >sincere and wants to learn -
> providing they are willing to put in the >effort. However, I will not
> "give them the answers" so that they can make >the value of my cert less.
> > >Prior to so much study material being available, you had to study and
> know >how to handle a wide array of issues, the specifics as to what is
> on the lab >were simply unknown and therefore you had to be prepared for
> anything - and >know it well. Now that the study materials have become
> available, it allows >a candidate to be more focused on lab specific
> issues instead of on routing >and swicthing in general. As a result a
> candidate can now pass the lab >without having a decent broad knowledge
> of routing and switching, they just >need to know how to prepare for the
> lab. That in my opinion has devalued >the certification. > >If we have
> 100,000 CCIEs all of which know there stuff and are a credit to >the
> certification then I have no problem with it. It we have 8000 CCIEs and
> >1000 of them can't live up to the expectations of the certification,
> then it >hurts the value not only of the other 7000, but also of any
> future >recipients of the certification. > >I am not bitter or angry
> (thanks for jumping to conclusions) that the study >guides weren't
> around, some were when I received my cert and I certainly >used them. I
> don't want them to go away. I own many of the books written by >other
> CCIEs and use them as a reference quite often. I am thankful they are
> >available. The materials that exist have the potential to help all of
> us. My >issue is simply one of "The CCIE certification should not be
> devaulued" - >that is my chief concern and my reason for answering the
> survey the way I >did. The only reason I posted my response to the survey
> was because I was >asked to do so. I apologize if my opinions differ from
> yours and you are >therefore offended. It was not my intention to offend
> you. You most >certainly are entitled to your opinion and I don't expect
> to change your >mind. > > >Hope this clears things up a bit, otherwise
> we'll have to just agree to >disagree. > >Louie > >-----Original
> Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of >Bradley J. Wilson >Sent:
> Saturday, June 02, 2001 9:13 PM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re:
> Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735] > > >Well, again, Sir Edmund,
> just because the newcomers can be better-informed >before their attempts
> doesn't mean that the challenge needs to be altered or >is less of a
> challenge for the individual. > >Again, I'm not against making certs
> tougher to achieve. But it sounds like >there's a touch of bitterness
> that these study guides weren't around way >back when...well, that's just
> the way life is. Making the CCIE "tougher" >and still calling it the
> "CCIE" is like asking runners to run a 400m race, >but then making them
> run 500m without telling them. ;-) Besides, the >argument about the study
> materials is subjective. Was CCO around when you >took the CCIE? Were
> other engineers around who were studying for it? Were >used routers
> around for you to purchase, and perhaps set up for others to >telnet
> into? I'm sure there were - if you (and/or others) didn't make use >of
> them, then that's water under the source-route bridge. > >If you want
> someone to be angry at, be angry at the people who took the >CCIE, passed
> or not, and then went out and wrote books on how to study for >the CCIE.
> But I personally don't think these people are doing a disservice >to the
> CCIE, nor are they devaluing it - and with a consistent 80% failure
> >rate, they're certainly not making it "less challenging." The study
> guides, >etc. make it more of a group effort, and there's nothing wrong
> with that - >not against the rules, not against the NDA, and our society
> wins because >we're able to learn from (and teach to) one another,
> thereby filling the >desperate need we have today for knowledgeable
> network engineers. Don't >punish those of us who have not yet earned our
> CCIE status for using the >resources which are available to us - or for
> having the foresight to create >and share new resources. > >It really
> sounds like your argument is that it should be more of a >"dog-eat-dog"
> world than a world where we're allowed to cooperate and share >knowledge.
> > >Am I wrong? If so, why? > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Louie
> Belt >To: Bradley J. Wilson >Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 8:56 PM
> >Subject: RE: Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735] > > >I willing to
> have the tougher recerts and the tougher challenge with my 2nd >CCIE
> cert. The bar has been lowered due to the deluge of study materials >that
> are now present to assist you. I'm for putting the bar back to where >it
> was taking into consideration the additional study aids available. >
> >Louie > >and also wrote... > >When the CCIE cert first came about there
> were not 100+ books avilable to >help you pass it. There were not a
> multitude of online labs, lab study >guides, study groups, ... Since all
> of those items are now available, I >feel the bar has been lowered. I'm
> for putting it back where it was. > >Additionally I'm studying for my
> second CCIE cert, I sincerely hope that it >is much tougher than my
> first. I want to maintain the value of the cert. > >Louie > >
> >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of >Bradley J. Wilson >Sent:
> Saturday, June 02, 2001 10:32 AM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re:
> Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735] > > >If I weren't up to the
> challenge, I wouldn't be on this newsgroup. Are you >up to the challenge
> of leaving the bar at the same height that it was when >*you* passed the
> test? I personally think the test is difficult enough as >it is. Am I a
> wimp because of that? Do we need to dump some dirt on the >top of Everest
> now that it's been conquered by someone else ahead of me? > >If Cisco
> wants to make the test "tougher," they're well within their rights >to do
> so. I just hope they don't call it the "CCIE" - call it something
> >different, and reset the numbers to zero (or 1025, whichever). > > > >
> >----- Original Message ----- >From: Louie Belt >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 9:33 AM >Subject: RE: Cisco moving to a
> one day lab? [7:6735] > > >Any CCIE or CCIE candidate worth his salt
> would want the lab to be tougher. >A number of study aids are now
> available that were not in the past. This >has somewhat lessened the
> difficulty of the process (as witnessed by the >backlog of people taking
> the lab after breezing through the written). >Making it tougher is just a
> method of counterbalancing all of the increased >study aids and
> maintaining the value of the CCIE cert. > >If you truly want to obtain
> your CCIE then you should want it to be as >difficult as possible,
> otherwise where is the value in the cert? If you are >not up to the
> challenge, then don't make the attempt. > >As for who should evaluate the
> CCIE program - most (not all)employers >couldn't begin to answer the
> questions about what is needed from a CCIE. >The biggest employer of
> CCIE's is Cisco (by far) so they should already have >an idea of what is
> needed. Cisco has been respectful enough of the CCIE >population to also
> ask for their input and most have given it willingly. > >My main
> interested is in preserving the value of the CCIE cert. I am >currently
> studying for my 2nd CCIE cert and still hope they make it tougher
> >(before I complete it). I also hope they make the recertification tests
> >tougher as well. > >I'm up to the challenge - are you? > > >Louie >
> >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of >Bradley J. Wilson >Sent:
> Friday, June 01, 2001 3:11 PM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re:
> Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735] > > >Forgive my cynicism, but any
> CCIE *would* want the lab to be tougher - they >would know that any CCIEs
> that came along after they received their number >increase the supply,
> thus lowering the cost of the good. ;-) > >I think Cisco ought to be
> asking companies who *hire* CCIEs what skills >*they* would like to see
> in those who carry the CCIE certification - not the >number-carrying
> CCIEs themselves. > >BJ > >P.S. And while I'm feeling cynical...can we
> please move the "NT vs. UNIX" >nonsense to private emails or perhaps a
> different mail list? Theeeeenks. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From:
> Belt, Louie >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 2:15
> PM >Subject: RE: Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735] > > >I filled
> out my survey and told them I wanted it to stay a two day lab - >and if
> anything - make it tougher. The explosion of materials available to >help
> people get though the written and prepare for the lab has taken some of
> >the challenge out of the process in my opinion. I would prefer they keep
> it >a 2 day lab, make it mean as h*** and keep the prestige in the cert.
> I also >told them I did not want them to stop issuing the medal for those
> who >succeed. > >Louie > >-----Original Message----- >From: CCIE Wanna BE
> >To: Belt, Louie; '[EMAIL PROTECTED] ' >Sent: 6/1/01 8:23 AM >Subject:
> RE: Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735] > >So what is everyone's
> take? >--- "Belt, Louie" wrote: > > That is simply one possible solution.
> They have > > sent a survey out to all of > > the CCIE's to get their
> feedback and suggestions. > > > > Louie > > > > -----Original
> Message----- > > From: CCIE Wanna BE > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >
> Sent: 6/1/01 5:35 AM > > Subject: Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735]
> > > > > A Cisco manager/CCIE told me that Cisco was planing > > on > >
> moving from the two day CCIE lab, to a one day > > (because of the back
> log). But the 1 day isn't > > going > > to be easier, it's going to be
> harder.... > > > > __________________________________________________ > >
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