I apologize to you Louie because I know you are busy. Thanks for the
info.
>From: "Louie Belt" >Reply-To: "Louie Belt" >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: RE: Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735] >Date: Sun, 3 Jun
2001 14:25:59 -0400 > >I have had numerous requests and have been unable
to help everyone or answer >everyone's questions. I do not have the time
to help all that ask. I'll be >the first to admit that I have "ignored a
number of email message due to >time constraints. But you will also find
a number of people that I have >helped and some that I continue to help
in a very focused manner. > >I'm not applying for saint-hood and don't
intend to, but I don't have time >to answer every individual request. >
>My responses would be the same that I have seen on this site a multitude
of >times: > >As for books: > >TCP/IP Volume I and Volume II are a must.
> >Caslow's 2nd edition is also a must have. > >Halibi is good for theory
but lacks good examples with router configs. > >McGraw Hill's Bridging,
DLSW+ and Desktop Protocols is a must as well (skip >the appletalk
section) > >Stay away from the CCIE all in one LAB study guide - it is a
waste of time. > > >CCBootcamp still offers the best labs for
preparation, Mentor labs is OK for >small practice labs on specific
issues. > >Use the documentation CD to find all answers - no matter how
painful it is. >Practice timing and methodology. Intermix IOS versions in
you lab. And of >course practice, practice, practice - time managment is
critical. > > >Louie > > > >-----Original Message----- >From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of >Cisco
Kidd >Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 11:57 AM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: RE: Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735] > > >I don't want
to bash you Louie but I sent you an email a couple of months >ago and
asked for some opinions on what books I should purchase for the >CCIE
lab( I supplied a list of the ones I thought) and if the study >methods I
was employing were adequate in preparation for the lab and >didn't get a
response ( I didn't ask for specifics such as IOS verions on >the lab or
topics covered in your lab) I know that you are probably busy >as a CCIE,
but I just want you and everyone else to know that you are not >as
helpful as you advertise yourself to be. > > > > >From: "Louie Belt"
>Reply-To: "Louie Belt" >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: RE: Cisco
moving to a one day lab? [7:6735] >Date: Sat, 2 Jun >2001 23:06:15 -0400
> >Yes you are wrong (about my perspective). I have >helped several
engineers >study for and pass the CCIE written as well as >the lab. My
concern is in >preserving the value of the cert. As for >dog-eat-dog I'll
help anyone who is >sincere and wants to learn - >providing they are
willing to put in the >effort. However, I will not >"give them the
answers" so that they can make >the value of my cert less. > > >Prior to
so much study material being available, you had to study and >know >how
to handle a wide array of issues, the specifics as to what is >on the lab
>were simply unknown and therefore you had to be prepared for >anything -
and >know it well. Now that the study materials have become >available,
it allows >a candidate to be more focused on lab specific >issues instead
of on routing >and swicthing in general. As a result a >candidate can now
pass the lab >without having a decent broad knowledge >of routing and
switching, they just >need to know how to prepare for the >lab. That in
my opinion has devalued >the certification. > >If we have >100,000 CCIEs
all of which know there stuff and are a credit to >the >certification
then I have no problem with it. It we have 8000 CCIEs and > >1000 of them
can't live up to the expectations of the certification, >then it >hurts
the value not only of the other 7000, but also of any >future >recipients
of the certification. > >I am not bitter or angry >(thanks for jumping to
conclusions) that the study >guides weren't >around, some were when I
received my cert and I certainly >used them. I >don't want them to go
away. I own many of the books written by >other >CCIEs and use them as a
reference quite often. I am thankful they are > >available. The materials
that exist have the potential to help all of >us. My >issue is simply one
of "The CCIE certification should not be >devaulued" - >that is my chief
concern and my reason for answering the >survey the way I >did. The only
reason I posted my response to the survey >was because I was >asked to do
so. I apologize if my opinions differ from >yours and you are >therefore
offended. It was not my intention to offend >you. You most >certainly are
entitled to your opinion and I don't expect >to change your >mind. > >
>Hope this clears things up a bit, otherwise >we'll have to just agree to
>disagree. > >Louie > >-----Original >Message----- >From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
>Bradley J. Wilson >Sent: >Saturday, June 02, 2001 9:13 PM >To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: >Cisco moving to a one day lab?
[7:6735] > > >Well, again, Sir Edmund, >just because the newcomers can be
better-informed >before their attempts >doesn't mean that the challenge
needs to be altered or >is less of a >challenge for the individual. >
>Again, I'm not against making certs >tougher to achieve. But it sounds
like >there's a touch of bitterness >that these study guides weren't
around way >back when...well, that's just >the way life is. Making the
CCIE "tougher" >and still calling it the >"CCIE" is like asking runners
to run a 400m race, >but then making them >run 500m without telling them.
;-) Besides, the >argument about the study >materials is subjective. Was
CCO around when you >took the CCIE? Were >other engineers around who were
studying for it? Were >used routers >around for you to purchase, and
perhaps set up for others to >telnet >into? I'm sure there were - if you
(and/or others) didn't make use >of >them, then that's water under the
source-route bridge. > >If you want >someone to be angry at, be angry at
the people who took the >CCIE, passed >or not, and then went out and
wrote books on how to study for >the CCIE. >But I personally don't think
these people are doing a disservice >to the >CCIE, nor are they devaluing
it - and with a consistent 80% failure > >rate, they're certainly not
making it "less challenging." The study >guides, >etc. make it more of a
group effort, and there's nothing wrong >with that - >not against the
rules, not against the NDA, and our society >wins because >we're able to
learn from (and teach to) one another, >thereby filling the >desperate
need we have today for knowledgeable >network engineers. Don't >punish
those of us who have not yet earned our >CCIE status for using the
>resources which are available to us - or for >having the foresight to
create >and share new resources. > >It really >sounds like your argument
is that it should be more of a >"dog-eat-dog" >world than a world where
we're allowed to cooperate and share >knowledge. > > >Am I wrong? If so,
why? > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Louie >Belt >To: Bradley J.
Wilson >Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 8:56 PM > >Subject: RE: Cisco
moving to a one day lab? [7:6735] > > >I willing to >have the tougher
recerts and the tougher challenge with my 2nd >CCIE >cert. The bar has
been lowered due to the deluge of study materials >that >are now present
to assist you. I'm for putting the bar back to where >it >was taking into
consideration the additional study aids available. > > >Louie > >and also
wrote... > >When the CCIE cert first came about there >were not 100+
books avilable to >help you pass it. There were not a >multitude of
online labs, lab study >guides, study groups, ... Since all >of those
items are now available, I >feel the bar has been lowered. I'm >for
putting it back where it was. > >Additionally I'm studying for my >second
CCIE cert, I sincerely hope that it >is much tougher than my >first. I
want to maintain the value of the cert. > >Louie > > > >-----Original
Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of >Bradley J. Wilson >Sent:
>Saturday, June 02, 2001 10:32 AM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re:
>Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735] > > >If I weren't up to the
>challenge, I wouldn't be on this newsgroup. Are you >up to the challenge
>of leaving the bar at the same height that it was when >*you* passed the
>test? I personally think the test is difficult enough as >it is. Am I a
>wimp because of that? Do we need to dump some dirt on the >top of
Everest >now that it's been conquered by someone else ahead of me? > >If
Cisco >wants to make the test "tougher," they're well within their rights
>to do >so. I just hope they don't call it the "CCIE" - call it something
> >different, and reset the numbers to zero (or 1025, whichever). > > > >
> >----- Original Message ----- >From: Louie Belt >To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 9:33 AM >Subject:
RE: Cisco moving to a >one day lab? [7:6735] > > >Any CCIE or CCIE
candidate worth his salt >would want the lab to be tougher. >A number of
study aids are now >available that were not in the past. This >has
somewhat lessened the >difficulty of the process (as witnessed by the
>backlog of people taking >the lab after breezing through the written).
>Making it tougher is just a >method of counterbalancing all of the
increased >study aids and >maintaining the value of the CCIE cert. > >If
you truly want to obtain >your CCIE then you should want it to be as
>difficult as possible, >otherwise where is the value in the cert? If you
are >not up to the >challenge, then don't make the attempt. > >As for who
should evaluate the >CCIE program - most (not all)employers >couldn't
begin to answer the >questions about what is needed from a CCIE. >The
biggest employer of >CCIE's is Cisco (by far) so they should already have
>an idea of what is >needed. Cisco has been respectful enough of the CCIE
>population to also >ask for their input and most have given it
willingly. > >My main >interested is in preserving the value of the CCIE
cert. I am >currently >studying for my 2nd CCIE cert and still hope they
make it tougher > >(before I complete it). I also hope they make the
recertification tests > >tougher as well. > >I'm up to the challenge -
are you? > > >Louie > > >-----Original Message----- >From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
>Bradley J. Wilson >Sent: >Friday, June 01, 2001 3:11 PM >To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: >Cisco moving to a one day lab?
[7:6735] > > >Forgive my cynicism, but any >CCIE *would* want the lab to
be tougher - they >would know that any CCIEs >that came along after they
received their number >increase the supply, >thus lowering the cost of
the good. ;-) > >I think Cisco ought to be >asking companies who *hire*
CCIEs what skills >*they* would like to see >in those who carry the CCIE
certification - not the >number-carrying >CCIEs themselves. > >BJ > >P.S.
And while I'm feeling cynical...can we >please move the "NT vs. UNIX"
>nonsense to private emails or perhaps a >different mail list?
Theeeeenks. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >Belt, Louie >To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 2:15 >PM >Subject: RE:
Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735] > > >I filled >out my survey and
told them I wanted it to stay a two day lab - >and if >anything - make it
tougher. The explosion of materials available to >help >people get though
the written and prepare for the lab has taken some of > >the challenge
out of the process in my opinion. I would prefer they keep >it >a 2 day
lab, make it mean as h*** and keep the prestige in the cert. >I also
>told them I did not want them to stop issuing the medal for those >who
>succeed. > >Louie > >-----Original Message----- >From: CCIE Wanna BE >
>To: Belt, Louie; '[EMAIL PROTECTED] ' >Sent: 6/1/01 8:23 AM >Subject:
>RE: Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735] > >So what is everyone's
>take? >--- "Belt, Louie" wrote: > > That is simply one possible
solution. >They have > > sent a survey out to all of > > the CCIE's to
get their >feedback and suggestions. > > > > Louie > > > > -----Original
>Message----- > > From: CCIE Wanna BE > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >
>Sent: 6/1/01 5:35 AM > > Subject: Cisco moving to a one day lab?
[7:6735] > > > > > A Cisco manager/CCIE told me that Cisco was planing >
> on > > >moving from the two day CCIE lab, to a one day > > (because of
the back >log). But the 1 day isn't > > going > > to be easier, it's
going to be >harder.... > > > >
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