While Mr. Ladrach is almost certainly correct in his statement that the CCIE is less challenging that physics and calculus, he might be able to speak more authoritatively once he has passed the Lab Exam.
As for being easier than accounting and economics classes, if you are reasonably intelligent and do all the homework, you will almost certainly pass most accounting and economics classes. You can be reasonably intelligent, do all the right things in preparation for the CCIE lab, and fail and fail and fail again. While I would certainly say that the CCIE material is less difficult to learn than some other subjects I have studied, I can honestly say that I have never studied so hard for one test in my life, or gotten myself into a state where I had such an "edge"-- a certain sharpness and facility with a given subject matter that I fear I may never experience again (unless I go for a second CCIE). It is not rocket science, but you have to execute VERY well. As for nrf, - his contributions to groupstudy have been almost entirely negative. While it is helpful to have some discussion of things like the job market and the question of whether it is better to invest time and effort in a degree versus certification is useful, constantly chiming in with negative thoughts and assessments is not very helpful. This is something of a support group, and in these difficult times, those of us who have already set out to achieve certification goals need encouragement and technical advice. I do not know if nrf is one of these people (he could just be negative for no particular reason), there are some people who come to these discussion groups to discourage others from pursuing dreams the achievement of which might bring about a greater number of certified IT professionals and perhaps exert downward pressure on salaries. For the record, I studied and practiced hard, and passed the CCIE lab with precious little "industry experience." I found a great job in a great company within two months of passing the CCIE Lab, and I had a few other interested folks contact me for interviews. I certainly cannot make any promises about the future, but my point is that if you can get all the way to passing the CCIE lab, you will probably not regret it. This journey is worthwhile, and don't let a bunch of naysayers get you down. That said, if you are very young and considering certification as an alternative to a college degree, understand that the college degree (even a BA) and what you should learn in the process of gaining it, can be very helpful. Tom Larus, CCIE #10,014 ""Howard C. Berkowitz"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > At 9:16 PM +0000 1/2/03, l0stbyte wrote: > >Ladrach, Daniel E. wrote: > > > >> I have an MIS degree from The Ohio State University Max Fisher College of > >> Business. I see some posts out there saying that a CS degree is no > >> more than > >> a vocational degree. Obviously this person has not been to college! > >> College > >> is not there to prepare you to step in and do a Sr. Engineer job, it is > >> there to give you a base understanding of IT. I however, have a business > >> degree with an IT focus. So, when you have been through the classes I > have > >> you form a level of respect for anyone who has been down the same road. > >> > >> When the CCIE gets as challenging as the following let me know. > >> > >> Calculus > >> Physics > >> Finance > >> Accounting > >> Economics > >> CS-programming > >> CS-operating systems > >> CS-networking > >> > >> > >> > >> Daniel Ladrach > >> CCNA, CCNP > >> WorldCom > >All of the listed should be thought in high school. Unless it's some > >kind of quantum programming (is it still a concept?), CCIE should be by > >far more challenging. My two cents.. > >:) > > I hope the smiley means you aren't serious. Let me pose some CS > questions, which I swear are off the top of my head. In all > fairness, I'm not sure if some of these will be advanced > undergraduate or graduate level, but we have been talking about CCIE > vs. PhD... I have tried to select questions that bear on real > networks. > > CS-programming. > Compare and contrast NP-hard, NP-complete, and NP-incomplete algorithms > Review the optimal search and update algorithms for trees and tries. > Identify four major searching and sorting algorithms and describe their > advantages and disadvantages > Extract a square root using Newton-Raphson iteration, or select a > different > method and explain why it is superior. > Describe a strategy for change control in a programming team. The > software > library will include documentation, source, linkable elements, and > executables. > What record locking mechanisms are needed to ensure integrity of a > hierarchical linked list? > What are the types of commitment protocols and the basic ACID properties > of transactions? > How can a buffer overflow be exploited to gain control? > Build a Monte Carlo simulator for network traffic following Markov, > exponential, fractal, and Erlang B and C pdf's for both interarrival > and service time. > Characterize the major conceptual differences among the FORTH, FORTRAN > IV, > LISP, PROLOG, Pascal, C, Ada, C++ and SQL languages > Give examples of data structures using isomorphism, homomorphism, and > monomorphism. > What is a context-free grammar? > Differentiate between abstract syntax, operational semantics, and > transfer > syntax. > > > > CS-operating systems > Describe the difference between a kernel and a microkernel and their > relationships to operating systems. > Discuss strategies for managing buffer allocation, fragmentation, and > garbage collection. > Compare and contrast polling versus interrupts in a real-time OS. > Describe at least four major types of multiprocessing. You may include > multistream single processors. > How can you do a hitless software upgrade on a real-time OS? > Differentiate between processes, tasks, and threads in POSIX. > Describe the requirements for transparent failover among multiple > processors, including the context switching issues. > What are the differences between reentrancy and serial reusability? > Compare backup strategies and management, including serial media, > various types of RAID, and write-once optical storage. > What is a deadly embrace? > What is the difference between mandatory and discretionary access > control? > Is compartmentation orthogonal to sensitivity? > What is the Bell-Lapadula theorem and where is it used? > What is a covert channel and how do you protect against it? > What is the difference between spawning and forking? > How are named vs. unnamed pipes used, and what is their relationship > to semaphores and sockets? > > > CS-networking > Compare and contrast error management using ARQ, parallel transmission, > and FEC > What issues do CALEA and E911 have on multiservice router design? > Discuss the evolution in Internet topology that has led to greater > BGP instability? Focus on topological changes. > Differentiate between codecs and transcoders, and identify the > impairments they introduce. > What limitation does the Dijkstra algorithm impose on subsecond > convergence > time? What are potential fixes to the problem? > Define unicity distance and its applicability to two coding schemes. > What is QAM? Trellis encoding? > What is the role of a phase-locked loop in received signal timing? > To what sorts of signals is it relevant? > Why are there pulse density restrictions in DS-x and E-x signals? > In what routing protocol did Floyd identify the problem of weak > synchronization, and how is it corrected? > What is the effect of the Byzantine Generals (also called Byzantine > Corruption) problem on high availability, and what are workarounds? > What is van Eck radiation and how does it affect security? > Why are external routes given lesser preference in link state protocols, > and what is their effect on the Dijkstra algorithm? > What is a LFN (elephant) and what do you do about it? > Why does OSPF use the lollipop algorithm for sequence numbers? > What is Huffman compression and how does it improve JPEG transmission? > Why is regenerative feedback a bad method of controlling systems? > Describe the functions of the OSI session layer in recovery. > What is the limitation of source-destination hash load balancing in > traffic engineering? > What probability function best describes Internet traffic? > Why does TFTP use a fixed record size? > What are the differences between XDR and ASN.1? > What mathematical principle underlies frame control sequences? > Describe the silly window syndrome. > Why has the destination preference attribute of BGP not been deployed? > Differentiate among system, layer, and station management. 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