hi matthias, > perfect for new GSoC projects, IMO
agreed - if the student is a committer (see [1]). however, we would have the same issue afterwards. with codi we started with a community check before adding btw. releasing a new sub-project and imo we have to continue with this approach. regards, gerhard [1] http://labs.apache.org/bylaws.html http://www.irian.at Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting, Development and Courses in English and German Professional Support for Apache MyFaces 2011/11/2 Matthias Wessendorf <mat...@apache.org>: > On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 9:13 PM, Gerhard Petracek > <gerhard.petra...@gmail.com> wrote: >> @matthias: >> apache labs are only for prototyping and the next step is e.g. the >> incubator for building a community (see [1]). > > perfect for new GSoC projects, IMO > > However, generally Apache Labs is (unfortunately) pretty limited > (not sure I why would actually do stuff there (instead of at github etc)) > > -M > >> >> regards, >> gerhard >> >> [1] http://labs.apache.org/bylaws.html >> >> http://www.irian.at >> >> Your JSF powerhouse - >> JSF Consulting, Development and >> Courses in English and German >> >> Professional Support for Apache MyFaces >> >> >> >> 2011/11/2 Matthias Wessendorf <mat...@apache.org>: >>> that's stupid :-) >>> >>> Personal releases are IMO possible (e.g. deployment to p.a.o/~asf-id) >>> >>> -M >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 6:35 PM, Ali Ok <al...@aliok.com.tr> wrote: >>>> One important point is labs projects are not allowed to make releases. >>>> >>>> Sent from Android >>>> >>>> On Nov 2, 2011 1:22 PM, "Gerhard Petracek" <gerhard.petra...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> see [1] - esp.: >>>>> >>>>> >Apache Labs are the place where ASF committers can work on innovative, >>>>> > blue-sky and off-the-wall ideas, without having to worry about fitting >>>>> > in an >>>>> > existing project bylaw or building a community around it... >>>>> >>>>> we already know that it works and it's just about a "community check" >>>>> -> imo labs doesn't fit and the alternative would be the incubator >>>>> itself. >>>>> >>>>> regards, >>>>> gerhard >>>>> >>>>> [1] http://labs.apache.org/bylaws.html >>>>> >>>>> http://www.irian.at >>>>> >>>>> Your JSF powerhouse - >>>>> JSF Consulting, Development and >>>>> Courses in English and German >>>>> >>>>> Professional Support for Apache MyFaces >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2011/11/2 Matthias Wessendorf <mat...@apache.org>: >>>>> > I don't get why not just having a simple alpha release ? >>>>> > Does not hurt... Or... move the entire thing to Apache Labs... for >>>>> > future experiments ?! >>>>> > >>>>> > -M >>>>> > >>>>> > On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 12:03 AM, Ali Ok <al...@aliok.com.tr> wrote: >>>>> >> Hi, >>>>> >> So do you think myfaces/incubator/html5 is a good place? >>>>> >> Greetings, >>>>> >> Ali >>>>> >> >>>>> >> On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 1:37 PM, Ali Ok <al...@aliok.com.tr> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Hi, >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> In my opinion as long this lib is html5 only it should not be part of >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> the tomahawk project >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> I agree, no relation with Tomahawk. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> a different idea would be a small myfaces-incubator for new >>>>> >>>> project-ideas >>>>> >>>> (esp. for gsoc projects). >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Makes more sense to me than Tomahawk. >>>>> >>> I think (almost) everyone is in favor of moving the project to >>>>> >>> somewhere >>>>> >>> else, I am also ok with it. >>>>> >>> Important thing for the project is having the ability for releases and >>>>> >>> the >>>>> >>> jars are deployed to maven repo. >>>>> >>> Cheers, >>>>> >>> Ali >>>>> >>> On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 11:05 AM, Mark Struberg <strub...@yahoo.de> >>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> including our very own little 'attic' :) >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Actually the big difference between the incubator and a mf subproject >>>>> >>>> would be the IP clearance. We really need to do this upfront before >>>>> >>>> importing. >>>>> >>>> But actually I like this much more than having projects developed >>>>> >>>> outside >>>>> >>>> and only later brought into our SVN - because this causes lots of >>>>> >>>> paperwork >>>>> >>>> (gas grants and a IP clearance review is mandatory). >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Thus a +1 >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> LieGrue, >>>>> >>>> strub >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >________________________________ >>>>> >>>> >From: Gerhard Petracek <gerhard.petra...@gmail.com> >>>>> >>>> >To: MyFaces Development <dev@myfaces.apache.org> >>>>> >>>> >Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 10:58 AM >>>>> >>>> >Subject: Re: [html5] alpha release for myfaces html5 >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> >a different idea would be a small myfaces-incubator for new >>>>> >>>> > project-ideas (esp. for gsoc projects). >>>>> >>>> >we can release parts easily and drop them if we see that something >>>>> >>>> > doesn't work for our community. if an idea works for the community, >>>>> >>>> > we can >>>>> >>>> > discuss the correct place for it. >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> >we might see new gsoc projects (related to myfaces) every year. imo >>>>> >>>> > it's >>>>> >>>> > the wrong approach to just add them as new sub-project and we don't >>>>> >>>> > have the >>>>> >>>> > resources/community to maintain them. >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> >regards, >>>>> >>>> >gerhard >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> >http://www.irian.at >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> >Your JSF powerhouse - >>>>> >>>> >JSF Consulting, Development and >>>>> >>>> >Courses in English and German >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> >Professional Support for Apache MyFaces >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> >2011/10/22 Bernd Bohmann <bernd.bohm...@atanion.com> >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> >Ha, I don't think we should wait for the jsf-eg. >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> >>Hey guys they are asking for a alpha release. >>>>> >>>> >>In my opinion as long this lib is html5 only it should not be part >>>>> >>>> >> of >>>>> >>>> >>the tomahawk project. >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> >>I don't see any problems in releasing an alpha release. But before >>>>> >>>> >> a >>>>> >>>> >>beta we should decide own extension or tomahawk. >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> >>Regards >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> >>Bernd >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> >>On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Gerhard Petracek >>>>> >>>> >><gerhard.petra...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>> >>> it's planned that jsf2.2 will get some sort of html5 support. >>>>> >>>> >>> imo we should work together with the jsf-eg to ensure that we >>>>> >>>> >>> won't >>>>> >>>> >>> promote >>>>> >>>> >>> incompatible components. >>>>> >>>> >>> regards, >>>>> >>>> >>> gerhard >>>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> >>> http://www.irian.at >>>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> >>> Your JSF powerhouse - >>>>> >>>> >>> JSF Consulting, Development and >>>>> >>>> >>> Courses in English and German >>>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> >>> Professional Support for Apache MyFaces >>>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> >>> 2011/10/22 Mark Struberg <strub...@yahoo.de> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> +1 for moving it to tomahawk. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> One big open question for me is our html5 strategy at all. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Will the html5 components provide legacy html support themselfs? >>>>> >>>> >>>> Thus a calendar component will use jQuery (or whatever) calendar >>>>> >>>> >>>> when a >>>>> >>>> >>>> non-html5 browser is detected, >>>>> >>>> >>>> or is this in the responsibility of the developer? >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> if (html5){ >>>>> >>>> >>>> aaaa >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> } else{ >>>>> >>>> >>>> bbbb //fallback >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> } >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> ? >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Afaik our current html5 components 'only' support pure html5 >>>>> >>>> >>>> rendering, >>>>> >>>> >>>> isn't? >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> LieGrue, >>>>> >>>> >>>> strub >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >________________________________ >>>>> >>>> >>>> >From: Gerhard Petracek <gerhard.petra...@gmail.com> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >To: MyFaces Development <dev@myfaces.apache.org> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 10:22 PM >>>>> >>>> >>>> >Subject: Re: [html5] alpha release for myfaces html5 >>>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> >>>> >@grant: +1 >>>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> >>>> >regards, >>>>> >>>> >>>> >gerhard >>>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> >>>> >http://www.irian.at >>>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> >>>> >Your JSF powerhouse - >>>>> >>>> >>>> >JSF Consulting, Development and >>>>> >>>> >>>> >Courses in English and German >>>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> >>>> >Professional Support for Apache MyFaces >>>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> >>>> >2011/10/21 Grant Smith <work.gr...@gmail.com> >>>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> >>>> >I must agree with Gerhard. The whole point of the sandbox is >>>>> >>>> >>>> > for >>>>> >>>> >>>> > this >>>>> >>>> >>>> > very purpose. However, perhaps we should look at the sandbox >>>>> >>>> >>>> > more >>>>> >>>> >>>> > often and >>>>> >>>> >>>> > vote on components that are ready to "graduate". >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Gerhard Petracek >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> <gerhard.petra...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>hi leo, >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>imo such an argument doesn't justify an own sub-project. i >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >don't< say >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -1. my point is that we should discuss it (esp. because the >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> situation >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> changed). >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>regards, >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>gerhard >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>http://www.irian.at >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>Your JSF powerhouse - >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>JSF Consulting, Development and >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>Courses in English and German >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>Professional Support for Apache MyFaces >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>2011/10/21 Leonardo Uribe <lu4...@gmail.com> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>Hi >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>The problem with move to tomahawk sandbox is those artifact >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> can't >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>never be released. Do an alpha release give us the chance to >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> know if >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>the bits are good enough, get more feedback, and later >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> decide >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> what to >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>do. The truth is some people only test some artifacts >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "after" a >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>release. Do it as an alpha release means "... software that >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> has >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> just >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>been compiled and ready for its initial test inhouse. ...". >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> think >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>that is enough clear. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>regards, >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Leonardo Uribe >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>2011/10/21 Gerhard Petracek <gerhard.petra...@gmail.com>: >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> hi ali, >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> most commits happened "directly" after the initial import. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> that >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> didn't look >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> very promising. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> it's great to hear that you plan to continue. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> however, since we haven't seen a lot of activity, we >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> should >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> re-visit >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> the >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> option to move the components to tomahawk >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> (btw. tomahawk-sandbox). >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> regards, >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> gerhard >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> http://www.irian.at >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Your JSF powerhouse - >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> JSF Consulting, Development and >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Courses in English and German >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Professional Support for Apache MyFaces >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> 2011/10/21 Ali Ok <al...@aliok.com.tr> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Thank you Leonardo for volunteering in the release. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Yes, it would be good discussing the future. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> I am still working on the project. Leonardo and I am the >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> only >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> ones >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> at the >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> moment. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> I am trying to work on the project 1 night a week, so the >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> progress >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> is >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> slow. I think it will be like this for a while. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> We have a few issues to fix / features to implement >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> already >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> in the >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> issue >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> tracker, and I am going to add more. There isn't enough >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> feedback, >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> since I >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> guess Html5 stuff is still not supported by every browser >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> and >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> not >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> everyone >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> can use them. So the user profile is more like >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> enthusiasts >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> who are >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> experimenting with Html5. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> What we could do is providing fallback for old browsers >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> out >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> of the >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> box, >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> but it is really hard to implement. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> About the future: there is a lot to do in this area and I >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> am >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> willing to >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> work, but I can say I can spare limited time. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> That's the intention of this mail. I think we should do >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> an >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> alpha >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> release. I don't see reasons to block a release. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> I agree. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> I am pretty sure a release is good for the project, more >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> people >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> will hear >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> about it; and hopefully we can get some feedback. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Ali >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 8:50 PM, Werner Punz >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> <werner.p...@gmail.com> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> +1 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> Am 10/21/11 7:56 PM, schrieb Leonardo Uribe: >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> Hi >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> That's the intention of this mail. I think we should do >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> an >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> alpha >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> release. I don't see reasons to block a release. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> regards, >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> Leonardo Uribe >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> 2011/10/21 Gerhard >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> Petracek<gerhard.petra...@gmail.com>: >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> before we release it, we should (imo) discuss the >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> future >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> of this >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> module. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> gerhard >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.irian.at >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> Your JSF powerhouse - >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> JSF Consulting, Development and >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> Courses in English and German >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> Professional Support for Apache MyFaces >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> 2011/10/21 Leonardo Uribe<lu4...@gmail.com> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> It could be good to do an alpha release of myfaces >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> html5 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> next >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> week. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> The site for this project is: >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://myfaces.apache.org/html5/ >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> If no objections I'll do the necessary steps. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> Leonardo Uribe >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> My Blog: http://blog.aliok.com.tr >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/aliok_tr >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>-- >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>Grant Smith - V.P. Information Technology >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>Marathon Computer Systems, LLC. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> -- >>>>> >>> My Blog: http://blog.aliok.com.tr >>>>> >>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/aliok_tr >>>>> >>> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> -- >>>>> >> My Blog: http://blog.aliok.com.tr >>>>> >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/aliok_tr >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > Matthias Wessendorf >>>>> > >>>>> > blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/ >>>>> > sessions: http://www.slideshare.net/mwessendorf >>>>> > twitter: http://twitter.com/mwessendorf >>>>> > >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Matthias Wessendorf >>> >>> blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/ >>> sessions: http://www.slideshare.net/mwessendorf >>> twitter: http://twitter.com/mwessendorf >>> >> > > > > -- > Matthias Wessendorf > > blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/ > sessions: http://www.slideshare.net/mwessendorf > twitter: http://twitter.com/mwessendorf >
