Will,
I am sorry I could not attend as I had to leave LISA early. I like this
effort which in line (Sort of) w ith Matt Simmons efforts to create the
LOPSA Professional Recognition Program. To answer Gene's statement as to
while (1) {
bring up subject
argue for a few weeks to months
do nothing for longer
}
I think the proposal to make this a LOPSA Committee a means to a better
end. The committee wold be able to meet on a regular basis
while discussing certain matters on the list to elicit feedback. As a
committee there would have to be at least a Board member as a Liaison who
would report back to the board at the regular meetings thus keeping it in
front of everyone and to keep the cause moving.
Great work and effort. Hopefully we will get more info from others that
attended the BoF.
On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 3:13 PM, Willard Dennis <[email protected]>wrote:
> Hi Gene,
>
> On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 12:27 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> There was a comment that we need to do this before someone else does it
>> for/to us. Who is this someone else? Why would they do this? Are
>> ther goals/motifs in line with LOPSA or where do they differ? How
>> far along in this path may they be?
>>
>
> I believe one of the examples given was a "healthcare.gov" type of fiasco
> whereupon the government (or industry in the crosshairs) would push for
> requirements for practitioners of systems administration (certification?
> licensing?) that may not be what we would like to see... Not sure how
> likely this would be (at least in the sort-to-mid term) but it did come up.
> It has already been mentioned on this list that there is a study being done
> for the Department of Homeland Security as to what level of Federal
> involvement would be needed to "professionalize the cybersecurity field"
> (see https://db.tt/ujCs6yJf for the draft study.)
>
>
>> IF they exist, why are we not working with them to come up with
>> something meaningful/useful/acceptable to all of us.
>>
>> More importantly, if they DO NOT exist, why not? If this group is
>> the only one talking about this, there is a bigger problem. Who really
>> cares? LOPSA and Usenix organizations are tiny. This past summer I
>> attended the "Service-Now" "Knowledge13" conference in Vegas. I don't
>> remember the actual attendee count, but it was something over 4000 people
>> with about 6000 expected at next years conference. For a "new" conference
>> focused around 1 software package, this is huge. By comparison, there
>> is almost no buzz around system administration.
>>
>
> That's a big unanswered question... See Matt Simmons' post from July 2013
> to this list, exp. his point #4, "Lack of cohesion" -
> https://lists.lopsa.org/pipermail/discuss/2013-July/018397.html
>
> I think it's due to the individualistic nature of most people who are
> involved with system admin, the lack of common education in the field, as
> well as the technology siloing that many people fall into. I also think
> that it's because some organizations have failed to demonstrate value by
> not having enough material of interest to offer to the profession as a
> whole. Perhaps the elements of a professionalization movement (a recognized
> Body of Knowledge, educational and ongoing professional development
> resources, etc.) would be what is missing.
>
>
>> So back to topic..
>> Every couple years this issue comes up in some form. In the past it's
>> been about "certifications" and attempting to come up with some
>> standards and tests. To have tests, you need to have something to
>> study. A body of knowledge. There have been a few minor steps in
>> this direction, but it quickly falls out to the back of other things
>> needing to get done, then forgotten and out of date. My feeling
>> the thread this time is called Professionalization instead
>> of Certification, but it's the same core issues. So..
>>
>> while (1) {
>> bring up subject
>> argue for a few weeks to months
>> do nothing for longer
>> }
>>
>> What's going to be different this time around?
>>
>
> I know what you mean... Found a great slide deck that Geoff Halprin put
> out for LISA'99, entitled "Maturing Systems Administration", with many of
> these same issues listed... I'm sure the conversation has been going on
> before that time as well. I lack the historical perspective, being a
> newcomer to LISA (the conference) and only relatively active in
> volunteering for LOPSA programs. I'm very sure that others could chime in
> on the history of this.
>
> No guarantees on anything, but... I and some other folks are willing to
> give it another try this time around.
>
>
>> --Gene
>
>
> Will
>
> ---
>
> En somme, je fais ce que je peux, je souffre de la souffrance universelle,
> et je tâche de la soulager, je n'ai que les chétives forces d'un homme, et
> je crie à tous: aidez-moi.
> (In short, I am doing what I can, I suffer with the same universal
> suffering, and I try to assuage it, I possess only the puny forces of a
> man, and I cry to all: "Help me!")
> -- Victor Hugo
>
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