On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 1:21 PM, David Seikel <onef...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lots of snippage, to avoid making it super long to wade through all the > stuff that has been said before to get to the new bits. Hope I did not > mess up the attributions. > > On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 12:10:24 -0400 Youness Alaoui > <kakar...@kakaroto.homelinux.net> wrote: > > > > On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 12:59 AM, Carsten Haitzler > > <ras...@rasterman.com>wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 1 Nov 2011 00:17:01 -0400 Youness Alaoui > > > <kakar...@kakaroto.homelinux.net> said: > > > > > > > we say "we'll release next week, start building packages" then > > > > 100 or 200 commits get sent in that single week (seriously). A > > > > deadline is a > > > > > > i've seen the reverse. deadlines come, deadlines go. no action. > > > > > sure, but the most 'popular' behavior is people work best under > > pressure and deadlines help achieve that and get things done. > > Some people do, some don't. It's certainly a very short term > management strategy though, that ignores that this sort of thing can > and does stress people out. Stressed out people don't do their best. > So such a management style might be popular for the managers, but the > people being stressed tend to bitch about it. > Stress is bad, doing a release shouldn't be about stress, but more about excitement. If you get stressed, then it's a different matter. > > > > i don't know - maybe you have spare time. i am in negative time > > > land. i have > > > zero left to spare. i barely get enough sleep - if it were not for > > > weekends, i > > > wouldn't. i am time poor. i dont have luxury like that. a half-done > > > webiste thats then abandoned then causes me to use more time i > > > didnt even have to begin > > > with - so something else suffers (sleep, work, or other e > > > development). i help > > > out a bit where i can - but i wanted him to do his work in parallel > > > without it > > > affecting the main site until it's ready. > > > > > nope, I'm in negative time land too, I think most of us are. I think > > your issue is that you should learn to delegate more, you can't do > > everything, and delegating is a big part of leading a project. > > The point raster is trying to make is that delegating, which raster > does do, is useless if the delgatee does not do the work. I'm guilty > of this myself. My life got in the way of E stuff, even though I was > being paid for it, so I dropped my E responsibilities a while back. I > had some large E things I was looking after. > > Now I'm doing a little bit here and there, again mostly to support > stuff I'm being paid to do. I wont take on any big E responsibilities > though. Well, unless someone pays me a fair fee for doing the virtual > world project I'm currently dedicating my spare time to. Since I want > to use EFL for that. > Sure, you need a consistent team otherwise it won't work. > > > And as I've been told numerous times "a release is free".. what is it > > that you lose when you do a release, what's so important and critical > > about having a release ? > > API lock in. Configuration file compatibility lock in. These things > are important if you actually like your users. Lock in is not free, it > removes freedom. > Euhh, no, for sure a major version bump is not free, but a cyclic release that doesn't break API/ABI or anything else, that's free, and that's what I was referring to. > > > Yes, people have responsabilities, real life, lack of time, etc.. but > > everyone has a few free minutes in their lives, and if people know > > there's a hard deadline in a few weeks then today, even if tired, > > instead of watching some movie, they will rather spend some of that > > time fixing what they think is critical for the release. I have zero > > free time, but when there is something urgent, I can suddenly make > > time for it, and I think everyone is like that too. > > NEVER EVER assume that everyone else is just like you. No matter > what. It's just a silly notion quite frankly. We are all different in > so many ways. > sure, not everyone is like that but I do believe that the majority are. > > > > i consider them a deal breaker :( a right now i want to not talk > > > dates until > > > AFTER efl 1.1. those dates will depend on if that gets a delay in > > > it or what > > > people do manage to do between now and then with e17. if that todo > > > list still > > > is no further along, then the timeframe has to be longer, if it is, > > > then shorter. > > > > > Alright, *that* in my opinion is an actual compromise of the subject > > discussed here (well, on the point I am making). No problems, we can > > talk dates after efl 1.1, I am fine with that :) > > It's what was being said all along, by a few of us. Not a compromise at > all, just the plan. There was no need to make a big drama about stuff > to get to this point. lol > Well, if that was the plan, it was never said (to me anyways), this is the first time it was said in this whole thread. Since the start, it has always been "the release will be whenever the todo list is done". Also, this wasn't a drama, it was a discussion, the 'drama' might be said about my previous outburst to raster, which was a result of his behavior and I snapped when he ended up saying I was the one being rude for sharing my opinion. > > but as is, you are alienating everyone with no release. > > Odd, I don't feel alienated. > Because you use the SVN, and I'm sure there are non-english speaking people using E17 who don't feel alienated either, but raster's point was that a release without the keymap module would alienate non english people, and I'm saying that no release alienates both english and non english people. > -- > A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants > coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > Save $700 by Nov 18 > Register now > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > _______________________________________________ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
