On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 11:43:48 AM UTC+2 Bruno Marchal wrote:
> On 9 Sep 2020, at 16:29, PGC <multipl...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 11:38:32 AM UTC+2, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> With Mechanism, we do have an ontological reductionism: only numbers >> exist, with only two simple laws: addition and multiplication. Then the >> physical reality emerges as a first person plural persistent sharable >> interfering web of histories, which is confirmed by quantum mechanics >> without collapse, up to now. >> >> It is the believer in a “physical reality out there” to explain how it >> manage to make some computations more real than other. It is up to them to >> show some evidence for that belief. >> > > That's easy. For millennia, by the rules of your discourse, every > person/number killing another with some weapon essentially states: "This > computation is more real. This one." > > There's been too much evidence of that kind, and any form of determinism > essentially justifies all of that evidence, citing some truth or realism á > la "that's the way the dovetailer runs" in a fatalistic manner. This sort > of relativism leads to forgone conclusions about the nature of life, > essentially disintegrating any/all forms of violence, when science should > pursue said nature of life with the hope of its optimization. I see this as > evidence of ideology within your discourse, as "no ethics" with regards to > numbers is mere nihilism/relativity/fatalism. > > > > On the contrary, with mechanism there are some objective moral laws > derivable from the machine theology, like “it is immoral tp do the moral to > the others”. > That statement tends toward relativism though as it “does the moral to the others” by declaring itself. > Then mechanism also refute all reductionist conception of humans, as it is > refute all reduction conception of machine. > Many ideologies with gods and their creations offer the same and many go far beyond that. For example, I just now created an ideology of citrus that refutes all reductionist conceptions of everything and offers loyal disciples some vitamin C in any cocktail of their choice. In the cocktail glass we can observe the buoyancy of citrus, so while you guys sit around here wondering about preludes to a metaphysics unstated, drowning in a sea of details and linguistic hallucinations, yours truly and the god of this new ideology that is the oldest ideology remain buoyant. > > > > > Even if physics were obtained in a satisfying manner from self-reference, > I'd tend towards interpretations that don't evaporate questions of > violence, good, and evil for some relativism; as tricky as they may be... > my hunch is that those questions related to the large variety of > descriptions of selfhood/subject need further elaboration. > > > > The consequence of Mechanism, like of Darwinism, should not be changed > according to our wishes. That would be like hiding truth, or a possible > truth, for terrestrial purpose. We can build some ethics, but not let it > decide for true and false. That was the main error brought by the > institutionalisation of religion, I think. > That assumes absolute truth discerning ability, especially the first two sentences. THAT IS the very error of which the last sentence warns readers. > > > > > >> This requires to abandon digital mechanism eventually. >> >> If you or anyone have still a problem with this, I can explain more. This >> is known since the 1930s, but ignored by many. >> >> Bruno >> >> PS I will certainly say more on this, but now I have hundred of exam >> copies to note... >> > > You have exam papers to grade now at the beginning of the school year? > > > Yes. The second session of September, and the admission exams. Covid-19 > doubles the work. But it is OK, it is my job. > Just give admission to everybody! WTF Bruno, why do you complain that folks don’t get into computer science enough but fail them for some exercise failure based on a reductionist conception of humans/machines? The ones you fail will tend to move towards beliefs in collapse. PGC -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/990ae695-019e-4f69-8f39-e15256c48c3fn%40googlegroups.com.
