@Terren. Not a truism. A tautology. 1=1. Of course. What else would you want? How do you expect to explain existence using something outside of itself ? Is illogical. Existence exists. 1=1.
Quality = form = meaning. Quality looks the way it does because of the meaning that it does. And meaning is the way no-thing understands itself when it looks-back-at-itself. On Friday, 10 January 2025 at 22:12:36 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: > > So in short, your proof is: > > > > 1. To exist means to have quality > > > 1. Only qualia have quality > > Got it. One problem though - you don't define "quality". So your proof is > just a truism: "Qualia are all that exist because only qualia exist". > > You have to define "quality" in a way that does not invoke "existence" or > "qualia". Otherwise, your proof is something a sub-100 IQ person might come > up with. > > On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 2:44 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> @Terren. Information doesn't exist. "Information" is just an idea in >> consciousness. >> Organ doesn't exist. "Organ" is just an idea in consciousness. >> Brain doesn't exist. "Brain" is just an idea in consciousness. >> Things don't exist. "Things" is just an idea in consciousness. >> See my other topic about PHYSICAL WOOOORLD EXIIIIISISISISTTTT!!!!! See it >> here for convenience: >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE9a2h5ZRqA >> >> If qualia are about an ObJeCtIvE reality, what is the oBjEcTiVe reality >> that those qualia refer to ? Is it about: >> Bart Simpson bouncing? >> Rotating pirate ship? >> That isn't my receipt? >> Lobsters in motion? >> That is embarrassing? >> Lactates in pharmacy? >> Baptism piracy? >> That isn't mercy? >> >> Of course you can prove that qualia are all there is. >> Trolololololololololol. Big deal. Is the most trivial thing in the world. >> Qualia are all that exists because "existence" is synonymous with >> "quality". To exist means to have quality. If you have no quality you have >> no form, as such you are no-thing. >> >> 50% of people are below 100. So 50% of population are scientifically >> proven retards. >> >> >> On Friday, 10 January 2025 at 17:43:06 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >> >>> As John Clark (a physicalist true believer) puts it, the brute fact or >>> assumption is that consciousness is how it feels when data is processed. In >>> this account, consciousness is the experience of information - the >>> information from our sensory organs as it is processed in our brains. So if >>> one accepts that theory of reality, qualia exist only as a signal that >>> refers to things that exist independently of an individual's consciousness. >>> That's what makes it epistemological. >>> >>> That version is not what I subscribe to, and I'm not trying to convince >>> you that's the correct account. I'm only saying, there's no way, not even >>> in principle, to prove that that's the Truth of what the ultimate ontology >>> is. The same goes for your account, which is that consciousness and qualia >>> are all that exists. >>> >>> PS. By definition, an IQ of 100 is the median. So "most people" have an >>> IQ right around 100. And I don't mean to suggest that because most people >>> take the physicalist account, that makes it more likely to be true. I'm >>> saying, if you're talking about your alternative, minority theory of >>> reality as if it's fact, then that means you better be able to prove it. >>> *And >>> you can't* *- nobody can*, just as nobody can prove physicalism is true. >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 3:39 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> @Terren. How can qualia have epistemological status when it exists ? >>>> Exists = ontologic. You seem very confused regarding the meaning of words. >>>> >>>> Also, "most people" have IQ below 100. This is close to monkey-level. >>>> How is that a criteria on which to decide truth ? >>>> >>>> Also, define "energy"! Define "matter"! >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, 7 January 2025 at 17:48:01 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>> >>>>> In your theory, the quale has ontological status, ok. In physicalism >>>>> (what most people assume), qualia have epistemological status. IOW, >>>>> qualia >>>>> is a form of information about something that exists independently of our >>>>> individual consciousness. >>>>> >>>>> In your theory, consciousness is the fundamental ontology. In >>>>> physicalism, matter & energy is the fundamental ontology. >>>>> >>>>> Deciding what is the fundamental ontology is a metaphysical decision. >>>>> It's an assumption or belief from which other things follow. But the >>>>> truth >>>>> of what is the fundamental ontology cannot be proven. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jan 7, 2025 at 5:00 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> @Terren. Yes. What do you mean by "thing" ? The chair that you see in >>>>>> front of you ? But that is just a quale in consciousness. So what do you >>>>>> mean by "thing" ? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tuesday, 7 January 2025 at 02:28:05 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> 🙄 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 6, 2025 at 7:19 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> @Terren. What thing ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, 7 January 2025 at 00:33:55 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would venture that the common sense notion of existence means >>>>>>>>> that a thing that exists has been instantiated. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/d0ad42e4-836f-47b2-9738-a045aa971470n%40googlegroups.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/d0ad42e4-836f-47b2-9738-a045aa971470n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> > To view this discussion visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/a8f3adf9-ae05-443c-8aeb-081807fd1ed9n%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/a8f3adf9-ae05-443c-8aeb-081807fd1ed9n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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