I'll counter that with *my* proof that *flibber is the only thing that exists*: 1. Flibber = Blammo = Existence 2. To Exist means to have Blammo (you are not aware of this) 3. A Blammo is a Flibber (obviously) 4. So how can something Exist if doesn't have any Blammo? 5. And what is a Blammo if not a Flibber?
It goes without saying then that anything that's not a Flibber does not Exist. QED On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 5:52 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < [email protected]> wrote: > @Terren. Is not a matter of proving. Is a matter of you becoming conscious > of consciousness. As of yet, you have no idea what the word "qualia" means. > If you would have known, you would have known that qualia = form = meaning > = existence. You are not aware of the fact that to exist means to have > form. And what a form is is a quality. How else can something exists if it > doesn't have any form ? And what is a form if not a quality ? > > On Saturday, 11 January 2025 at 00:49:16 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: > >> Try to keep up. You cannot prove that only qualia exists. All you've >> offered so far is a tautology. >> >> On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 5:17 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> @Terren. So you say that I cannot prove that only existence exists ? >>> Then what else exists ? Inexistence ? >>> >>> On Friday, 10 January 2025 at 23:16:04 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>> >>>> I'm not asking you to explain existence. I'm saying you cannot prove >>>> your claim that the only thing that *can* exist is qualia. And you >>>> cannot prove that with a tautology. But you knew that, right? >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 3:33 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> @Terren. Not a truism. A tautology. 1=1. Of course. What else would >>>>> you want? How do you expect to explain existence using something outside >>>>> of >>>>> itself ? Is illogical. Existence exists. 1=1. >>>>> >>>>> Quality = form = meaning. Quality looks the way it does because of the >>>>> meaning that it does. And meaning is the way no-thing understands itself >>>>> when it looks-back-at-itself. >>>>> >>>>> On Friday, 10 January 2025 at 22:12:36 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> So in short, your proof is: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. To exist means to have quality >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. Only qualia have quality >>>>>> >>>>>> Got it. One problem though - you don't define "quality". So your >>>>>> proof is just a truism: "Qualia are all that exist because only qualia >>>>>> exist". >>>>>> >>>>>> You have to define "quality" in a way that does not invoke >>>>>> "existence" or "qualia". Otherwise, your proof is something a sub-100 IQ >>>>>> person might come up with. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 2:44 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> @Terren. Information doesn't exist. "Information" is just an idea in >>>>>>> consciousness. >>>>>>> Organ doesn't exist. "Organ" is just an idea in consciousness. >>>>>>> Brain doesn't exist. "Brain" is just an idea in consciousness. >>>>>>> Things don't exist. "Things" is just an idea in consciousness. >>>>>>> See my other topic about PHYSICAL WOOOORLD EXIIIIISISISISTTTT!!!!! >>>>>>> See it here for convenience: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE9a2h5ZRqA >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If qualia are about an ObJeCtIvE reality, what is the oBjEcTiVe >>>>>>> reality that those qualia refer to ? Is it about: >>>>>>> Bart Simpson bouncing? >>>>>>> Rotating pirate ship? >>>>>>> That isn't my receipt? >>>>>>> Lobsters in motion? >>>>>>> That is embarrassing? >>>>>>> Lactates in pharmacy? >>>>>>> Baptism piracy? >>>>>>> That isn't mercy? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Of course you can prove that qualia are all there is. >>>>>>> Trolololololololololol. Big deal. Is the most trivial thing in the >>>>>>> world. >>>>>>> Qualia are all that exists because "existence" is synonymous with >>>>>>> "quality". To exist means to have quality. If you have no quality you >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> no form, as such you are no-thing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 50% of people are below 100. So 50% of population are scientifically >>>>>>> proven retards. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Friday, 10 January 2025 at 17:43:06 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As John Clark (a physicalist true believer) puts it, the brute fact >>>>>>>> or assumption is that consciousness is how it feels when data is >>>>>>>> processed. >>>>>>>> In this account, consciousness is the experience of information - the >>>>>>>> information from our sensory organs as it is processed in our brains. >>>>>>>> So if >>>>>>>> one accepts that theory of reality, qualia exist only as a signal that >>>>>>>> refers to things that exist independently of an individual's >>>>>>>> consciousness. >>>>>>>> That's what makes it epistemological. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That version is not what I subscribe to, and I'm not trying to >>>>>>>> convince you that's the correct account. I'm only saying, there's no >>>>>>>> way, >>>>>>>> not even in principle, to prove that that's the Truth of what the >>>>>>>> ultimate >>>>>>>> ontology is. The same goes for your account, which is that >>>>>>>> consciousness >>>>>>>> and qualia are all that exists. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> PS. By definition, an IQ of 100 is the median. So "most people" >>>>>>>> have an IQ right around 100. And I don't mean to suggest that because >>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>> people take the physicalist account, that makes it more likely to be >>>>>>>> true. >>>>>>>> I'm saying, if you're talking about your alternative, minority theory >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> reality as if it's fact, then that means you better be able to prove >>>>>>>> it. *And >>>>>>>> you can't* *- nobody can*, just as nobody can prove physicalism is >>>>>>>> true. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 3:39 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> @Terren. How can qualia have epistemological status when it exists >>>>>>>>> ? Exists = ontologic. You seem very confused regarding the meaning of >>>>>>>>> words. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also, "most people" have IQ below 100. This is close to >>>>>>>>> monkey-level. How is that a criteria on which to decide truth ? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also, define "energy"! Define "matter"! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, 7 January 2025 at 17:48:01 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In your theory, the quale has ontological status, ok. In >>>>>>>>>> physicalism (what most people assume), qualia have epistemological >>>>>>>>>> status. >>>>>>>>>> IOW, qualia is a form of information about something that exists >>>>>>>>>> independently of our individual consciousness. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In your theory, consciousness is the fundamental ontology. In >>>>>>>>>> physicalism, matter & energy is the fundamental ontology. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Deciding what is the fundamental ontology is a metaphysical >>>>>>>>>> decision. It's an assumption or belief from which other things >>>>>>>>>> follow. But >>>>>>>>>> the truth of what is the fundamental ontology cannot be proven. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 7, 2025 at 5:00 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List >>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> @Terren. Yes. What do you mean by "thing" ? The chair that you >>>>>>>>>>> see in front of you ? But that is just a quale in consciousness. So >>>>>>>>>>> what do >>>>>>>>>>> you mean by "thing" ? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, 7 January 2025 at 02:28:05 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 🙄 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 6, 2025 at 7:19 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything >>>>>>>>>>>> List <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> @Terren. What thing ? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, 7 January 2025 at 00:33:55 UTC+2 Terren Suydam >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would venture that the common sense notion of existence >>>>>>>>>>>>>> means that a thing that exists has been instantiated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/d0ad42e4-836f-47b2-9738-a045aa971470n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/d0ad42e4-836f-47b2-9738-a045aa971470n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> >>>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/a8f3adf9-ae05-443c-8aeb-081807fd1ed9n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/a8f3adf9-ae05-443c-8aeb-081807fd1ed9n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> >>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/5f52c2df-dfed-4224-8a56-921bc1c74d44n%40googlegroups.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/5f52c2df-dfed-4224-8a56-921bc1c74d44n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> >> To view this discussion visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/efb89a4e-4c5f-406d-8337-14f10d35a88en%40googlegroups.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/efb89a4e-4c5f-406d-8337-14f10d35a88en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/910ad8a7-012b-42f0-9bf3-ab5dae87aecfn%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/910ad8a7-012b-42f0-9bf3-ab5dae87aecfn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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