https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=404286
--- Comment #36 from przem.form...@gmail.com --- (In reply to NSLW from comment #31) > (In reply to przem.formela from comment #27) > > > For me user experience isn't hurt if the word is understandable. > > User Experience isn't based on personal preference, it's a whole area of > > scientfiic expertise, grounded in gestalt laws of perception. > > According to https://www.usertesting.com/blog/gestalt-principles/ > "The human brain is wired to see structure, logic, and patterns. It helps us > make sense of the world. In the 1920s a group of German psychologists > developed theories around how people perceive the world around them, called > Gestalt principles." > I think we might be over-stretching scope of gestalt principles which are > about structure, logic, and patterns. I'm not sure if Luigi meant that > specifically or in general, so I think we might slightly went off-topic > here. Nevertheless thank you for your explanation. > [...] > "The principle of similarity states that when things appear to be similar to > each other, we group them together. And we also tend to think they have the > same function." Isn't this exactly the case, though? On every other OS you can encounter windows with up to three buttons: OK, Cancel, Apply. Person using Android, Windows, Mac expects there to be these three buttons, named consistently across all platforms. Because that's the pattern they know or, well, at least I do. Further explanation in the next point. > > I'm disappointed that even while seeing that your change disrupts someone's > > work so much that it makes them create an account here and file a bug (which > > isn't something a regular user wants to do) you still don't consider that > > enough of a feedback to actually revert - or even consider reverting - the > > change. > > The change disrupts your work because you don't know what "zaniechaj" does > and you know what "anuluj" does? I know what both of these do. But I don't **read** button text, I **look** at it. That's even one of principles of quick text reading, if I remember correctly. I'm not in a research mood to point to specific papers but I'm pretty sure that's what people do most of the time, when interacting with UI elements as well. So, in this case, user doesn't read three buttons: "OK, Anuluj, Zastosuj". They see "Button with OK, Button with A..j, button with Z...j". When we switch from "Anuluj" to "Zaniechaj", we end up with two buttons having "Z..j", thus disabling the ability to quickly estabilishing function of the button with a glance and extending the time it takes to actually choose the desired button. > > The way you approach actual feedback given to you isn't community- > > nor improvement-oriented. > > I presume that you don't see this change as making anything valuable to you. > In our devel list I wrote: > "My motivation is to promote the use of Polish language and enhance its > quality > in software." > Don't you see it as improvement of Polish wording in software? I'm sorry, but I really don't. "OK" is not a polish word. "Kontynuuj" isn't. "Menu" isn't. I don't see a point in having well-known "Anuluj" replaced with a word, which is "more Polish" by some standards I really don't understand. > > > Would you like to hold the right to make all the decisions but do no work > > > and take no responsibility for it? I disagree with that point of view. > > Nobody says you have to agree with that. If you volunteer to make work for > > the community, you should at least try to respect community's needs and > > decisions. > > It seems to me that you're frustrated and would require obedience from me. > By you saying "[you] work for the community" I feel disrespected because it > places > me (worker) below you (community). I believe, that I deliver work that > benefits Polish language and the community. I'm sorry, I didn't want to make you feel disrespected. It just seems to me that in this case, Polish language and community might be at odds and your work will benefit either of those, but not both. > > You are basically trying to make people go away from KDE - and from the > > community - based on your own preferences (which nobody in this thread > > agreed with so far). > > Please don't try to make false accusations. I do not try to make people go > away from KDE. What I meant here is that, for me, this is an expected **result**. As I've explained above and below, this decision impairs productivity. > > > The fact that I don't do as anyone would like doesn't mean that I don't > > > listen to anyone or to you particularly. > > So you're basically telling us that you've acknowledged our needs and > > decided that you know better what they are. > > Please don't try to ridicule me by saying "you know better". > I believe we all have the same need i.e. the translations to be > understandable. I'm not trying to ridicule you here. I feel this is your attitude based on all your responses in this thread. Having understandable labels is not enough for UI to be good. If it was, we wouldn't need icons nor colors to differentiate elements. I will understand what the button means when I read it, but I prefer to do that without having to actually read it. I'm pretty sure a person who never used a computer before and never will use DE other than KDE won't have problems with your decision. They'll learn quickly enough that "the second button always cancels" and when they'll want to cancel, they'll use the second button. Easy-peasy. But for people coming from any other graphical interface, this will be a problem. The buttons might be ordered differently, so placement itself won't be enough. Icons? Some DEs have those, some don't. Having at least this one similarity helps tremendously when switching to KDE or working on many different systems daily. > > You prefer disturbing people's work for the idea of pure language, > > forgetting completely that language is constantly changing. > > I've got impression that language is changing because of globalization. > There is less Polish in Polish. In my opinion, if there is a Polish word > that did not fall out of use > then we should use it instead of English word where appropriate. > > > https://sjp.pwn.pl/poradnia/haslo/anulacja;13028.html > > Thank you, but what did you want to show with that example? I wanted to show you that "Anuluj" and its derivatives can surely be considered polish words, since they are part of Polish language's text corpus. In my opinion, there were probably many words that were part of polish language that are not anymore because of "outside" (latin, french, english) influences. Yet nothing wrong happened with the language, it's still Polish, just a new version of it. I believe forcing this change on others just for the sake of purity, whatever that exactly means, is not a good solution here. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
