https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=404286
--- Comment #37 from NSLW <lukasz.wojnilow...@gmail.com> --- (In reply to r.rozne from comment #34) > > You used Polish translation in KDE before the change to "Zaniechaj" and > > after the change > > you tried (struggled) to use it? > > No, I had never used KDE *in Polish* before the change occurred is what I > meant. I had only tried KDE in English before. OK, I get that you've switched to Polish after the change to "Zaniechaj". I'm curious what this word has to do with your switch. Was the word a trigger for you or was it by sheer accident? > I'm a person learned in both > linguistics and computers, so I didn't have any problems. But here's the > thing, I, like you, am a learned person. In my experience, the typical user > gets confused a *lot* when presented with different wording than they've > been seeing for years (Windows, Android, modern Apple platforms). I reckon you adapted fast to the change. Do you feel concerned about how fast other users may adapt considering that they're not as confident in computer skills as you? In my experience, every user gets confused with anything new, e.g. switch from Windows to Linux is confusing in itself. Some learned users, like you, may get it fast and some may get it slow. I think, actions that don't confuse user are bug-fixes. Any other change is considered confusing. That way there would be no space for improvement because no way for a change. > In this scenario, neither the expert, nor the user are even aware they're > running KDE. The user is agitated and puts pressure on the "so-called > expert" to solve their problem at all costs. The expert may assume things > because of that. I suggest we drop considering this example, because to me "cancel" button doesn't play key role in it and I believe it is rare. > Well, on paper it hasn't. However, some people don't know the formal > definition of "Anuluj". I don't have a real-life example for that, but I do > have one for the word "Edycja" (Edit). My grandmother was recently confused > by this word, because she was used to seeing it in a web app, where clicking > it opened a separate screen that showed more details about something than > could be seen normally, in addition to making them editable. So, she told, > she thought it means something like "show more details". Then, she > encountered it in a situation, where tapping the "Edytuj" button didn't show > more stuff, leaving her tapping over and over, looking for more stuff. > Encountering the same word in a different place, where the *apparent effect* > (to them) is different, may leave them confused. > Likewise, users may not associate "Anuluj" and "Zaniechaj" with the same > concept. Is Microsoft to blame for this? First, I don't want to blame anyone (or encourage such actions) for anything and in this particular case Microsoft for translating "cancel" as "anuluj". Second, You told us your grandmother case. It seems to me, she felt confused because she expected some consistency in the use of word "Edycja", right? Third, I have issues following your third thought after your first though. There seems to be no connection to me between them. When I read "associating [word] with concept" I see the word as being jargon because it has to be associated with a concept and I want to avoid using jargon words in translations. I see that you're concerned if the user will catch that "anuluj" and "zaniechaj" means the same concept. In English KDE there are "Settings" , "Configuration", "Options" that from function point of view mean the same to me, nevertheless three words are used. It seems to me that users adapted to it. > Given that the Start button hasn't been labeled since Vista, I think the > average user calls any button in the bottom-left corner of the screen a > "Start" button. Even then, there's the resort of "the button in the > bottom-left corner" (and if that fails, try the upper-left and the > upper-right - that can happen on Windows, too). Not so much with our > "Anuluj" button, given that different OS' put "OK" and "Anuluj" in different > order. You're right. Start button is no more. Someday the change must have happened though and I believe it was confusing. > > MacOS was translated since 1986. > Huh, that's the first time I've heard of this… Have you ever seen it? Where? > Only other trace I've found was an archived Allegro listing. I think I would > enjoy seeing it. The real machine? No. I've seen their dictionary from 1992. https://aresluna.org/attached/terminology/glossaries/mac > Try running a JavaScript that uses window.confirm(). > Or closing a window with multiple tabs open. > I'm not talking about Open/Save/Print dialogs here, they should and are > properly integrated. You're stating the fact that other software uses dominant Windows standard. > In this case, I would argue that the language isn't "changing", it "has > changed" already. 20 years of continuous usage is quite enough. Yes, it changed and I'm shocked by seeing events sponsored by city authorities under name "Grand opening" or "Beach volleyball" (spelling of the events left original) > > I get impression that you're not proud of how things changed. > > Would you solicit opinions beforehand, so that everyone would agree on the > > change? > > Since this is a fundamental change that would set us apart? Definitely. I presume that you treat "anuluj" as fundamental word. You also said that "zaniechaj" is "[...] cute. I like it." Are you happy and unhappy with the change at the same time? The earlier, because you would like to observe purer language. The latter, because you would like everybody to be as whole and in harmony. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
