Good evening, Bill...
Since some of the message(s) you have quoted were from other folks, I'm
going to be somewhat selective about what I quote back to you in this
message.
Bill Anderson wrote:
> Yup his what, 200 year old home is now a slab. Why do I suspect you and
> I will be paying for at least some of it's reconstruction?
You mean Trent Lott's family are among the homeless of New Orleans, and
are now on the dole for bottled water and K-Rats? <GASP> Do you think they
had insurance?
>> I just judge the people by their actions. At one point the ratio of press
>> conferences to on-site visits were running at 6-to-1, based upon CNN's
>> coverage. That is why so many of the statements being made by the
>> bureaucrats weren't even close to being in line with the harsh facts. As
>> of this morning, it is the FIRST time in six days that anyone at the FEMA
>> level even knew that there were thousands of starving people huddled at
>> the Convention Center.
>
> Funny, I heard FEMA people talking about it and mentioning it in the
> early days.
I thought they were talking about the people at the Super Dome, not the
Convention Center.
>> Yesterday was the first time that helicopter
>> transportation was being provided for nursing home and hospital patients,
>> some of whom had been without food or water for FIVE days.
>
> Funny, I saw this going on as well during the early days. I even saw
> complaints about the choppers not getting back to them.
This one I am certain of, because a radio ham living outside Baton Rouge
whose house was still intact and managed to get a generator and a
temporary radio mast working was talking about trying to get help for the
nursing home in Baton Rouge at day five. He finally managed to reach
someone in Cleveland, OH who relayed his message onward to FEMA and last
Thursday morning he reported two helicopters had delivered food, water and
were taking out the critically-ill patients.
>> NO. Most of those who stayed behind were *unable* to escape for a variety
>> of reasons. True, a certain percentage of those who stayed behind CHOSE
>> their options, but the vast majority, including hospital patients,
>> nursing home patients and others incapable of exercising any options,
>> were capable of choosing a way out.
>
> I remember the press interviews and reports from before it hit. That
> percentage is quite high.
Based upon Camille, yes, the percentage of those unable to flee was very
high, indeed. As of tonight, CNN is reporting they are housing over
100,000 people being housed in Houston, alone. Holy crap, that is a lot of
people when they show up for breakfast!
>> So much for the vast planning capabilities of Homeland Security.
>
> Heheh, no kidding. However, that isn't their job. Remember they are just
> "to coordinate". ;) DHS does not and should not have anything to do with
> natural disaster recovery. The missions are entirely distinct and trying
> to combine them is a sure way to abysmal failure. Indeed my first
> reaction to reports from local DHS bureaucrats was "WTF is he talking
> about?!". It ain't their job, nor should it be.
Well, what would have happened *differently* if this had been a terrorist
attack, rather than an act of nature? Would we be seeing anything
different if terrorists were able to level a major area the size of the
hurricane path?
> Remember, the guard is not a naval force. They are not prepped for
> floods such as this. On coastal areas the primary point of relief is the
> Coast Guard. And they did splendidly with what they had. Overloading the
> Guard with two primary responsibilities is a recipe for failure in both.
Yes, but the USCG did an INCREDIBLE job of rallying their forces and
providing aid to those in danger. Add to that, they also did a pretty
nifty trick of creating their own communications network using two Coast
Guard cutters they parked off Biloxi's coast and deploying temporary
transmitters and relays inland. My god, I could hear them loud and clear
(late nights only) right here in the Pacific Northwest from day two.
> Apples and orangutans. 9/11's inability to intercommunicate was
> mismatched (*cough*proprietary*cough*) equipment protocols. In this
Oh, you mean the Motorola equipment versus the rest of the pack? <evil
grin>
> event it was the loss of the equipment and the infrastructure that lead
> to the loss of communications. We both know the government can only work
> on one such change at a time. Even then, what do you do when your radio
> doesn't work?
Dig my "spare" out of the basement?
> They did have an aircraft carrier group just outside of the area. There
> are shall we say, a few resources to be had there? This is one of the
> reasons I argue for a small to nonexistent ground force consisting of
> primarily Marines, no Air Force whatsoever, and a Navy with perhaps
> double the carrier fleet. Carrier groups are truly impressive.
You just said a mouthful! Once the Navy arrived in-theater outside Biloxi
all kinds of things just suddenly started working again, including the big
maritime transmitters at the base of the Mississippi that everyone,
including river pilots, ships at sea and even little fish rely upon for
their navigation. I've personally *seen* those big transmitters. Getting
them functional (probably with replacement antennas) is an incredible feat.
> *LOCAL* agencies and the ACE, sure. And they've been requesting it since
> *1965*. How exactly can you fault the current or even the previous
> administration for that?
I'm an equal fault kinda guy. I fault ALL the agencies who had knowledge
of these predictive reports and either did nothing or chose to ignore them
entirely. Of course, I don't have much use for bureaucracy anyway.
> Excellent, several days later power is restored to some places. While I
> applaud the upgrading of that part of the infrastructure, I also must
> note that it is a far less daunting and challenging, not to mention
> costly, undertaking than the levee and flood control ones.
<sigh> Yes, I have looked at the levee systems in the past of my life and
wondered just how well they would hold up in a Cat-4 direct hit from a
hurricane. I guess I've got my answer now. Of course, I once asked the
same question about the Cities of Brownsville and Galveston, as they both
have extensive histories of major hurricane disasters. I suspect, although
I don't really KNOW, that were a direct hit of a Cat-5 hurricane hit
Galveston head-on, we might see the same results as we did in New Orleans
and Biloxi.
> Ah the wonders of private companies who depend on these things. ;)
Actually, they are well ahead of even my predictions as far as being back
online. Utterly and completely amazing to me, but they have managed to get
*some* of the infrastructure functional in less than 7 days.
> I've actually been quite suprised by the talk of many in the area
> (officials, people and reporters) who are questioning the sanity of
> doing so. That it is even being discussed is progress IMO.
You mean I will have to travel to Houston to eat REAL home-cooked Cajun
Gumbo next year? GOD, I loathe Houston! 8-)
>> You mean we should dump FEMA?
>
> HELL YEAH!
> If nothing else it'd make my wife happy as I'd finally quit griping and
> bitching about FEMA. :)
[ROARING with laughter!] Mine too.
> Some will think that harsh, and some will disagree. But nonetheless it
> is my position and I stand by it.
Well, once I examined your position VERY closely, I must admit you have a
valid point, even within the confines of the Libertarian philosophy, as I
understand it. Hospitals, for the most part, are private entities, albeit
sustained by federal and state stipends, no? They should therefore be
privately responsible for creating and maintaining a cogent, carefully
thought-out emergency plan well in advance of it arriving. They, not the
government, should be responsible for being prepared.
> HAH! :D Probably. Dammit I should have known he had a hand in this. I
> bet he really had his house secretly moved by the Prometheus just before
> Katrina hit. ;)
Yeah, sure. ;-)
> I take it Slidell is not underwater, and thus not below sea level to an
> appreciable degree?
No, Slidell WAS under water after the storm. However, unlike New Orleans,
they are above sea level, and thus dried out pretty quickly. Another
factor that played an important role is that MOST modern buildings are
required to refit to what they call the Category 4 Hurricane building
codes. Another factor is multiple redundancy in core functions, such as
how the electrical grid is designed. Slidell is really a pretty impressive
city when it comes to preparedness, despite the fact that 60% of the
residences in town are simply not there anymore.
>> Wait a minute here... You mean to suggest that people shouldn't rebuild
>> their homes in Tornado Alley? Now let's see here <Dave scratches his head
>> in frustration>, just how are we going to quantify what is and is not
>> tornado alley? Remember, I've lived there. <grin>
>
> I didn't know that, but pretty much, sort of. If they want to pay for
> it, let them rebuild. But I shouldn't have to. :D
Ah, I see your point. FWIW, I moved OUT of the Midwest largely because of
a CAT-4 tornado that tore up a piece of the real estate right down the
street from where I lived. We had a CAT-3 that had just torn up my
friend's farm, where he had less than 3 minutes' warning, which is one of
the reasons I became a Storm Chaser for quite a few years. However, NEXRAD
radar, not Storm Chasers, really has made a difference in predicting
tornado paths and severity.
> "What about the poor <insert minority> who can't afford the cost of
> flood insurance, you racist bastard?".
Well, I don't squall too loudly at the rising cost of welfare in this
great nation. We might as well give them free flood insurance and let them
rebuild homes along the levees, no? (seriously ducking)
>> > [Side note: the French quarter will likely be the first rebuilt.
>> > Why?It's flooding was far, far less than the rest. Why? You guessed it,
>> > it's mainly above sea level.]
>>
>> Huh? The French Quarter is *below* sea level, I believe. Maybe I'm wrong.
>
> According to the reports and images, it isn't. Indeed one report on the
> potential looming rebuild has it that the FQ may become much of if not
> the new center of NO.
The OTHER side of the coin is that one of the FIRST priorities in Biloxi
is the rebuilding of the floating gambling casinos. WHY? The justification
I've heard from everyone, from the Governor downward, is that the gambling
casinos generate so much tax revenue for the entire state. Of all the
justifications I've heard, this one takes the book!
> Well, it's pretty damned cool IMO. I know I've posted on it here before
> (I tend to proselytize E85 ;) ). Basically, E85 is 85% ethanol, 15
> percent petrogasoline. The ethanol we are using is locally produced from
> "potato waste". The remaining 15% is from domestic oil (which BTW is
> supplied by refineries in the Utah and GC area -and the Utah ones are
> down for maintenance- so in that respect it hits the Treasure Valley).
I just tried some E85 purchased at a Cenex dealer here in Eastern
Washington, and although I did notice a little bit of "pinging" from my
fuel-injected turbocharged van, I felt a little less pain at the pump. I
also understand that there are certain tuning specifications for my van
which may help with the pinging, but even so, I got 18 MPG overall, so I'm
fairly happy. Thanks for the tip!
> That said, I did love the video of the natural gas fire boiling and
> bursting out from the floodwaters. That was just too cool. :)
Yes, that was quite a hoot, indeed!
> Sadly, now the gloryhounds are in there (Geraldo Rivera for example) and
> we'll see puff-me-the-reporter pieces. It will probably be several
> months before the real stories start surfacing (no pun intended) again.
Somebody (I don't recall who) from NPR was wandering around Biloxi and
Gulfport yesterday and today interviewing "normal people" to see where
they were when the storm came ashore and how they survived. I didn't
contain much in the way of hyperbole, but it definitely touched my wildly
wicked old heart, such as the story of Creoles who managed to escape from
New Orleans, only to set up a soup kitchen for other stranded guests.
> Well, enough for now - got some coding to do.
Well, it's time for the bed if I stand a chance of getting up in time for
tomorrow morning. 8-)
Dave
--
Dave Laird ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
The Used Kharma Lot / The Phoenix Project
An automatic & random thought For the Minute:
A debugged program is one for which you have not yet found the conditions
that make it fail.
-- Jerry Ogdin
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