Hi David, Two years ago when I first became involved with Linux, I knew absolutely nothing about it (zip, zero, zilch). I purchased an I32 version, installed it according to the installation instructions, and proceeded to study it and learn what I needed to know about it. I have been continuing to do so ever since, and whenever I need to user another part of Linux that I've never really paid attention to, it's back to the books and other resources. I had lots of questions which were answered very quickly and in detail from the good folks on the various Linux newsgroups.
When I installed my first Linux/390 image (the original Marrist image) I followed the installation instructions, and asked many questions of this support group. I do not consider VM to be any more complex than Linux. It certainly helps if you have a background in it's core technology (i.e. mainframes in general, 3270 usage, things of that nature), but the opposite was true of me when I first started with Linux (i.e. I knew none of the languages it used, it's command syntax was/is incredibly fussy both in terms of mIxEdcAsErEsPEctEd commands, there was no centralized library to turn to for well written, cross-referenced and indexed information like an IBM SLSS, etc. etc.). But ultimately, you have to decide to either learn the system you are tasked with supporting, or contract out the support of it. At least with VM (as is the case of all IBM mainframe systems) you have VAST libraries of data to reference with clear, well written and understandable instructions (take a look at z/VM Program Directory - step-by-step clear instructions on how to install a z/VM system). With Linux there are only contributions made by either the author or somebody else written in as much detail as they chose to include, not cross-referenced to other related documents, often with no practical examples, etc. etc. - you've heard the gripe from us IBM types before. :) So for those folks who are saying that they want to use VM to host Linux/390 server farms, but they don't want to know anything about VM - it's kind of like me saying I want to use Linux to run advanced web serving, database and networking tasks - but I don't want to know anything about it. It doesn't work that way, you need to make an investment in understanding the system you are supporting, at least to a level that you feel comfortable with. Of course, that's just my $.02. :) Michael Coffin, VM Systems Programmer Internal Revenue Service - Room 6527 1111 Constitution Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20224 Voice: (202) 927-4188 FAX: (202) 622-3123 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -----Original Message----- From: David Boyes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: SAF in zVM V4R2 Express Installation > We are a OS/390 shop with ZERO VM skills. The distributed group does > not want to learn z/VM for many reasons, among them are the lack > of any usable > intro/how-to documents to get started with - the existing > pubs assume a > firm foundation or knowledge gained from attending a class. Hmm. While true, I don't see how this is different from supporting ANY platform other than the one you've already got. If you went out and bought a Sun E15K (probably the mainstream device closest to this sort of environment), you'd have to go to a Sun class to learn how to run the partitioning tools -- in fact, Sun won't sell the machine to you without it. You can't buy books at Borders or Barnes & Noble about managing E15K domains (or at least not in my local bookstores) -- you've got to invest in learning how to use the tools you've been given. Sun doesn't publish this sort of information, nor does HP/Compaq -- or any other HW vendor I'm aware of. I really don't see how or why IBM is expected to be any different in that respect -- it'd be nice, but I can't say it's unexpected or unreasonable to expect someone to put some study time into this. > If you want z/VM+Linux to be successful you (IBM) need to publish a > simple HowTo type document with step by step instructions, with > explanation, for > setting up and managing this new environment. This sounds more like a SHARE white paper than an IBM document (maybe the first useful SHARE WP in the last decade or so...sigh). Perhaps this is the wrong forum, but I would think that tapping the VM talent in SHARE to describe "best practices" is much more likely to get you a maintainable and useful document. The people with the skills to do this do exist; but we also have real jobs, too. I would suggest contacting Neale Ferguson offline and asking the SHARE VM and Linux projects to take this on, rather than beating IBM up about it. It's more productive, and probably would produce a more useful result.
