The point I was making was that it's not really 'odd' that a collection
for primarily one instrument can contain a few pieces for another.
Muecci certainly has a view but perhaps not infallible.....
rgds
Martyn
--- On Mon, 21/1/13, Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
From: Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: 4 course guitar in Italy - was Calata de
StrAmbotto
To: "Martyn Hodgson" <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: "Lutelist" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Monday, 21 January, 2013, 15:48
Well - feel free to get in touch with Signor Meucci and tell him what
you think.
For the rest of it the 4-course guitar is more closely related to the
vihuela than to the lute so it is not surprising that two of the
vihuela books should include a number of pieces for it or that Bermudo
should devote a number of chapters in his magnum opus to describing
it. Fuenllana actually refers to the instrument as "vihuela de quatro
ordenes que dizen guitarra". - a 4-course vihuela which they call the
guitar.
Regards
Monica
----- Original Message ----- From: "Martyn Hodgson"
<[1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: "Monica Hall" <[2]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Cc: "Lutelist" <[3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 2:48 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: 4 course guitar in Italy - was Calata de StrAmbotto
>
> Dear Monica,
>
> I don't find it odd that Barberiis included a few pieces for 4
course
> guitar in his collection. Presumably he included them by way of a
> sop/offering to those few players who played such an instrument as
well
> as lute; in much the same way as Mudarra and Fuenllana included a
few
> pieces for four course guitar in their respective books of vihuela
> music. In all three collections the number of 4 course guitar
pieces is
> tiny compared with the other offerings for 6 course instruments
(tho'
> Fuenllana does, of course, also include a very few pieces for a 5
> course vihuela as an offering to players of this even more unusual
> instrument....)
>
> rgds
>
> Martyn
> --- On Mon, 21/1/13, Monica Hall <[4]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
> From: Monica Hall <[5]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [LUTE] 4 course guitar in Italy - was Calata de
> StrAmbotto
> To: "Martyn Hodgson" <[6]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
> Cc: "Lutelist" <[7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Date: Monday, 21 January, 2013, 13:54
>
> Well - obviously the 4-course guitar was played in Spain although
the
> extent
> to which it was played in the contrapuntal manner suggested by the
few
> surviving pieces in Mudarra and Fuenllana is unknown.
> The point which Meucci makes about Barberiis is that it is a bit
odd
> that a
> printed collection of lute music should include just four pieces
for an
> instrument of a different type. There are references to the
> "chitarra"
> which clearly imply (if that's not a contradiction) that it was a
small
> lute.
> The safest thing to say is that there is no surviving Italian
> repertoire for
> the 4-course guitar.
> Monica
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Martyn Hodgson" <[1][8]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
> To: "Monica Hall" <[2][9]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
> Cc: "Lutelist" <[3][10]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 11:28 AM
> Subject: [LUTE] 4 course guitar in Italy - was Calata de StrAmbotto
> >
> > Dear Monica,
> >
> > You write 'There('s) no hard evidence that the 4-course guitar
was
> > played in Italy' and, of course, you're quite right.
> >
> > But it was played in Spain, then a major influence in all
Hapsburg
> > lands and in some Italian states as well as Naples. So I don't
see
> it
> > being played in the leading maritime centre of Venice as
> particularly
> > far-fetched. And I'm referring to the figure of eight shaped
> instrument
> > - I think we're in danger of going a bit too far down the
invisible
> > path of supposing a mandora shaped guitar was the default.
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Martyn
> >
> > --- On Mon, 21/1/13, Monica Hall <[4][11]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
wrote:
> >
> > From: Monica Hall <[5][12]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Calata de StrAmbotto
> > To: "Sean Smith" <[6][13]lutesm...@mac.com>
> > Cc: "Lutelist" <[7][14]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> > Date: Monday, 21 January, 2013, 10:38
> >
> > I am afraid the pieces in Barberiis are probably not for the
> 4-course
> > guitar
> > but - as Stuart has kindly pointed out with the appropriate
> reference -
> > for
> > a small 4-course lute or mandora.
> > Renato Meucci, Da 'chitarra italiana' a 'chitarrone': una nuova
> > interpretazione; in Enrico Radesca da Foggia e il suo tempo
Atti
> del
> > Convegno di studi, Foggia 7-8 Aprile 2000, pp. 30 - 57.
> > There is a case to be made that this music by Bareriis isn't
for
> > figure-of-eight 'normal'-if-tiny 'Spanish guitar but for a
small
> > gittern/mandore-type instrument.
> > There no hard evidence that the 4-course guitar was played in
> Italy.
> > Monica
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Sean Smith" <[1][8][15]lutesm...@mac.com>
> > To: "lute" <[2][9][16]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 10:51 PM
> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Calata de StrAmbotto
> > >
> > > Thanks for the reminder, Arthur. I knew about these but had
> forgotten
> > them
> > > (too). It is more support that the little guitar was being
played
> and
> > even
> > > written for.
> > >
> > > Sean
> > >
> > >
> > > On Jan 20, 2013, at 2:32 PM, Arthur Ness wrote:
> > >
> > > The link is at the very bttom.
> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Ness"
> > <[3][10][17]arthurjn...@verizon.net>
> > > To: "Monica Hall" <[4][11][18]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>; "Sean
Smith"
> > > <[5][12][19]lutesm...@mac.com>
> > > Cc: "Lutelist" <[6][13][20]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 5:21 PM
> > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Calata de StrAmbotto
> > >
> > >
> > >> Monica surely has simply forgotten about these Italian
guitar
> > pieces.
> > >> Just four pieces in a century is virtually the same as
saying
> there
> > are
> > >> no pieces.<g>:
> > >> See [1][7][14][21]http://purl.org/rism/BI/1549/39 Sigs,
Gg24v-Hh1v
> (last
> > two
> > >> pages)<<<snip>>>
> > >> References
> > >> 1. [8][15][22]http://purl.org/rism/BI/1549/39
> > >> 2. mailto:[9][16][23]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> > >> 3. mailto:[10][17][24]lutesm...@mac.com
> > >> 4. mailto:[11][18][25]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> > >> 5. mailto:[12][19][26]lutesm...@mac.com
> > >> 6. mailto:[13][20][27]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> > >> 7. mailto:[14][21][28]lutesm...@mac.com
> > >> 8. mailto:[15][22][29]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> > >> 9.
> [16][23][30]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > >
[17][24][31]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1.
> [25][32]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lutesmith@mac.
com
> > 2.
> [26][33]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmo
uth.edu
> > 3.
> [27][34]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arthurjness@ve
rizon.ne
> t
> > 4.
> [28][35]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlhall@tiscal
i.co.uk
> > 5.
> [29][36]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lutesmith@mac.
com
> > 6.
> [30][37]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmo
uth.edu
> > 7. [31][38]http://purl.org/rism/BI/1549/39
> > 8. [32][39]http://purl.org/rism/BI/1549/39
> > 9.
> [33][40]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlhall@tiscal
i.co.uk
> > 10.
> [34][41]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lutesmith@mac.
com
> > 11.
> [35][42]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmo
uth.edu
> > 12.
> [36][43]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lutesmith@mac.
com
> > 13.
> [37][44]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmo
uth.edu
> > 14.
> [38][45]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lutesmith@mac.
com
> > 15.
> [39][46]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmo
uth.edu
> > 16.
[40][47]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> > 17.
[41][48]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> >
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1.
[49]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co
.uk
> 2.
[50]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 3.
[51]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 4.
[52]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 5.
[53]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 6.
[54]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lutesm...@mac.com
> 7.
[55]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 8.
[56]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lutesm...@mac.com
> 9.
[57]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 10.
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t
> 11.
[59]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 12.
[60]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lutesm...@mac.com
> 13.
[61]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 14. [62]http://purl.org/rism/BI/1549/39
> 15. [63]http://purl.org/rism/BI/1549/39
> 16.
[64]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 17.
[65]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lutesm...@mac.com
> 18.
[66]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 19.
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> 20.
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> 22.
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> 25.
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> 26.
[74]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 27.
[75]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arthurjn...@verizon.ne
t
> 28.
[76]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 29.
[77]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lutesm...@mac.com
> 30.
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> 31. [79]http://purl.org/rism/BI/1549/39
> 32. [80]http://purl.org/rism/BI/1549/39
> 33.
[81]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 34.
[82]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lutesm...@mac.com
> 35.
[83]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 36.
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> 37.
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> 41. [89]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
--
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89. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
