In France the two terms are basically interchangeable and are used to designate the same process (user enters his adress, site owner sends an email requesting to click a link to confirm ownership of the adress, user clicks and is then added to the mailing list). I’ve never had a client trying to use double optin for anything else than a user confirmation process. I actually was a bit confused at first like you were, and wondered what the difference was (answer : none). To be completly honest : I don’t even see what the difference actually is even now. Call me naive, but I haven’t seen any case of « fake » DOI/COI in 7 years working for an ESP (not to say that I haven’t seen a LOT of pushback against COI/DOI, but that’s another matter linked to client education).
Mathieu Bourdin De : mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] De la part de Alexander Zeh via mailop Envoyé : lundi 26 août 2019 10:49 À : mailop <mailop@mailop.org> Objet : Re: [mailop] [ext] Re: Return Path / Sender Score This might also be an issue of different wordings used in different parts of the world. I started working in the email space 10+ years ago for the eco Association in Germany. In every document, in every personal conversation I had, always the term DOI was used. Not only by marketeers, also by postmasters and lawyers. I heard the term COI for the very first time at a M3AAWG meeting, and indeed thought it’s the term for „I’ll send the recipient a confirmation email that he’s now subscribed“. I’m not sure how these terms are used in other european countries. Alex Am 26.08.2019 um 00:06 schrieb Luke via mailop <mailop@mailop.org<mailto:mailop@mailop.org>>: Personally, I consider every effort to quietly redefine elements of language to suit a particular set of political, economic, or personal objectives to be concerning As do I. I guess my argument is that this isn't what is happening when some email marketer says "double opt in" or "cold outreach." If you're someone who hasn't spent a great deal of time thinking about the world's spam problem or haven't really given much thought to the consequences of not requiring some kind of confirmation before adding an address to your mailing list, the term double opt in makes sense. Should they be corrected? Sure. Should they be taught that "double opt in" isn't actually accurate because the recipient is only opting in once. Sure. Do they deserve to be labeled a spammer or be told they are talking like a spammer? No. Is it some kind of concerted effort to normalize spammy behavior? No. I don't like the terms double opt in or cold outreach either and I don't use them. But I don't think the term "spamspeak" and the allusion to 1984 is appropriate. Luke On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 10:06 AM Michael Rathbun <m...@honet.com<mailto:m...@honet.com>> wrote: On Sun, 25 Aug 2019 08:14:16 -0700, Luke via mailop <mailop@mailop.org<mailto:mailop@mailop.org>> wrote: >I did intend to send it to the whole list. > >"Spamspeak" makes it sound so clandestine. So Orwellian. Like there is some >> subversive element on the list trying to turn the tides and normalize spam. >> Sounds spooky. Sounds provocative. Let's run with this. >> *Rolls eyes* > > >But yes, I was poking fun at the use of the term spamspeak. The allusion to >1984's newspeak or doublespeak is silly. I have seldom been accused of being overly serious. >If alluding to 1984 in the context of permission based email isn't a little >funny to you, then I apologize for my remarks. Personally, I consider every effort to quietly redefine elements of language to suit a particular set of political, economic, or personal objectives to be concerning, however "funny" they may appear at the onset. (I leave out of the discussion the fact that I once had a role in a stage production of "1984" that made me more than slightly well-acquainted with that work.) Rob's remarks were, to my knowledge, accurate and apposite. mdr -- Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire _______________________________________________ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org<mailto:mailop@mailop.org> https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
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