Carrol's vulgar materialist image of wheelwrights as only workers of the hand, and not of the brain, talking to their apprentices, showing them how to make wheels by dumb-speechless gestures and mime, silent imitation, leads to stupid versions of workers as mindless bodies performing like robots.
On 5/24/10, c b <cb31...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 5/22/10, Carrol Cox <cb...@ilstu.edu> wrote: > > As usual, I'm just breaking into the middle of a thread, and I do not > > know who CeJ is quoting here, but I wholly agree with CeJ on this. The > > idea of learning how to make a wheel from stories rather than directly > > from another wheelwright is nothing short of bizarre. > > ^^^^^^^^^^ > > CB: Calling it bizarre is bizarre, with your grunts and snorts version > of early human communication. You are out of your gourd. Were they > cavemen , too. You read too many cartoons. > > Of course , the wheelwright uses stories to teach how to build a wheel. Duh. > > ^^^^^^^ > > > That in any case > > was never the purpose of stories, ancient or modern. They are indeed > > crucial to human society, more crucial than wheelmaking perhaps, but not > > because they have the sort of utilitariand use claimed here. ^^^^^^^^^ CB: Wrong. Songs had big time utilitarian use in very ancient times. ^^^^^^^ CeJ's army > > anecdote is telling: even skills that _can_ more or less be abstracted > > into a technical manual (and only in the last couple centuries has that > > been common) cannot often be mastered without an instructor to _show_ > > one how to do it. And many skills cannot be so abstracted. Frying eggs, > > for example: My grandmother could serve soft eggs with the yolks broken > > ans pread out over much of the white. Now she had the advantage of fresh > > eggs, but still. One can now buy 'organic' eggs with greatly improved > > taste, and the yolk does hold better -- but I have tried vainly to > > recover her skill -- and I doubt very much that a 1000 stories could > > help much. One has to do it under the practiced eye of someone who has > > the skill. Browse through any good cookbook. You will find the recipes > > divide rather neatly into those which guarantee the same produce each > > time by merely repeating the instructions and those which at crucial > > points demand some kind of personal sense (gained only through another > > person who has it or through constaant trial and error, not by following > > instructinss. And a much greater proportion of pre-modern skills were of > > the "frutying-an-egg" rather than "mix-these-ingredients-in > > this-exact-proportion" type. In principle, perhaps, someone could have > > learned how to make pottery on a wheel from some ditty passed down, but > > I doubt it very much. And no one coulld ever master handmade pottery > > from a manual. > > > > One hint to what (for 'primitive' peoples: i.e. say 30k b.p.) is given > > by the lady in the play who said how can I know what I think till I see > > what I say." The 'wisdom' not the technology of the tribe belongs in > > stories. They would define who they were by the stories they told of > > where they came from. > > > > Carrol > > > > CeJ wrote: > > > > > > >>And stories are exactly it. In a story can be passed on to unborn > > > generations how to make a wheel, how to make a stone axe, or the > > > habits of predators and prey , how to organize a hunt or gathering > > > socially ( brothers relate based on kinship in the hunt or in the > > > defense against a predator, say). Chimps don't have stories like that. > > > Having a wheel or a stone axe is a big adaptive advantage over > > > whomever you might be competing with. The wheel or how to make a > > > stone axe may be invented by some chimp genius, but if there is no way > > > to pass it on<< > > > > > > When I was in the Army I knew guys who could not read an Army manual > > > if their life depended on it, and yet > > > you could blindfold them and they could take apart, clean, and > > > re-assemble an M2 Browning machine gun. > > > They didn't get this sort of skill because stories of their dead > > > ancestors were passed down and accumulated over thousands of years. > > > They got such dexterity (and lack of literacy) growing up in places > > > like Lynchburg, VA, taking apart cars in their backyards. > > > > > > CJ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Marxism-Thaxis mailing list > > > Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu > > > To change your options or unsubscribe go to: > > > http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Marxism-Thaxis mailing list > > Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu > > To change your options or unsubscribe go to: > > http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis > > > _______________________________________________ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
