Jim, mod_perl, while a module, is it's own Top Level Project at the
Apache Software Foundation. So the Project Management Committee (PMC)
of the mod_perl project determines how things go. For other modules that
aren't their own project, they fall under the Apache HTTPD PMC's domain.
Right now, there has been concern that there isn't the minimum level of
support for a PMC at mod_perl that can suitably handle security concerns
and project decisions. If there are 3 PMC members who +1 they are here
and can handle decisions and address security concerns in a timely
manner, then that's all this thread is trying to achieve.
The ASF as an organization follows a bottom-up organizational structure
so if the PMC can drive itself, the organization wants that to happen.
It sounds like we might have 3 PMC +1's.
Regards,
KAM
On 3/18/2021 2:06 AM, Jim Albert wrote:
Thanks for the thorough response, Fred.
At some point before mod_perl stops having any development support
would you expect an End Of Life announcement with reasonable advanced
notice?
I haven't followed discussion or announcements on other Apache modules
to know how modules normally reach their end. Is it structured or do
some just suddenly disappear?
Jim
On 3/18/2021 1:05 AM, Fred Moyer wrote:
Longer response here.
So I'm happy to be another active PMC member still involved. As
someone with a growing family, my time is limited, but not too much to
review and lend a +1 or feedback. I think that may be the case for a
few of the folks on this list. I'd like to see Steve Hay lead the
future of mod_perl project as I know a lot of the old guard have
personal duties now that take precedence.
mod_perl is not a new Apache project. It's approaching two decades,
close to the age of the Apache httpd project itself. It was a core
driver in developing my career in software, as well as many key
professional relationships associated there. I remember a *lot* of
weekends early in my career hacking on mod_perl for *fun* - the coding
was the reward, as well as the community feedback.
There are still many shops out there using mod_perl, but not much new
development, which makes sense. The project is in maintenance mode,
and there are developers willing to support needed releases as Adam
mentioned. If you are developing a new project, you should not use
mod_perl. But if you are maintaining legacy mod_perl infrastructure,
we will not leave you behind.
The open source project model has changed significantly, especially
over the last ten years. IMHO, while the ASF model was instrumental in
the rise of open source projects into commercial environments, more
recent approaches such as those supported by the Linux Foundation
(which is *definitely* more commercially supported, and reflected by
the platitude of industry sponsors and resources) have achieved
greater growth levels in the short term. Will they still be here in 20
years? No idea.
A takeaway from my reflections there is that the ASF can benefit from
a bit less formality in structure to keep up with the new kids on the
block. I'm just a mostly inactive PMC member, but I think it's clear
that the project rules are preventing us keeping up with the needed
leadership changes.
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 8:02 PM Fred Moyer <f...@redhotpenguin.com>
wrote:
Happy to continue being a maintainer. Longer response coming soon :)
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 7:39 PM Adam Prime <adam.pr...@utoronto.ca>
wrote:
I think if you want to discuss alternatives, then a new thread
would be
the place to do that.
With regards to plug being pulled, I think that it is up to the
community if, when, and how that happens. That's what the point of
this
thread is. If there aren't people that are committed enough to the
project for whatever reason to step up and keep it from going to the
attic, then that's what will happen.
Adam
On 3/17/2021 9:50 PM, Jim Albert wrote:
Not that I want to be the guy that says it sounds like we'll be
pulling
the mod_perl plug at any time the right scenario arises, but is it
reasonable to have a discussion here on mod_perl alternatives inline
with the various means of using mod_perl from the low level means of
interfacing with the Apache server to the quick and dirty stuff
(ModPerl::PerlRun, I believe to keep Perl and modules in memory).
For those drawing the same conclusions from this thread as me,
I've seen
mod_fcgid proposed as an alternative, but I haven't yet played
with it.
Anyone with similar thoughts would ideally be looking for
something that
doesn't require months of redeveloping to a proposed replacement to
mod_perl.
I like mod_perl and it does a good job for what I use it for, but
if we
have no one developing, it sounds like we're waiting for the
catalyst to
come along that puts and end to it. EG.. some future Apache
incompatibility. I'd really like someone with mod_perl authority to
tell me I'm wrong, but my take on Adam's reply pretty much leaves me
with that conclusion. I don't see another way to draw a better
conclusion.
Jim
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