Re: NEOTEK: series IIIc channel seating problem?

Thu, 02 Jun 2011 06:47:48 -0700 


 Hi Pete,
I would try using something like Pro Gold to both lubricate and protect the pins. All this grief you're having seems to be a good indication of why they went to ribbon cables on the next series (the Elite). 
best,
Ike

On 11-06-02 7:46 AM, pete wrote:

ok - the Molex Saga continues:
so i finally got the correct connectors for this series IIIc :

538-09-52-3103 (mouser #) is the right 10 position
538-09-52-3123 (mouser ) is the 12.
now - i'm looking for yet more suggestions. the pin spacing and hole size is perfect on these... but of course the new recepticals have more tension and therefore make it VERY difficult to seat modules. as in i literally could not force either of the first 2 i re-did back into position. the way i got them "in" was to get them lined up, and screw down the top and bottom of the module plate into the aluminum rails and then with a blunt end of a socket driver placed on the faceplate directly over where the male pins were situated, swiftly bang on the end of the driver "popping" the module into the connector. make sense? there has got to be a better way. thoughts? how about fitting the new connectors on the male pins first, then inserting them in the frame and soldering... i assume the male pins will sink a lot of the heat making soldering more difficult... also lining up all the pins on the molex to the drilled holes on the pcb will be tough as well. 
i really don't want to do 34 more channels of what i did last night!!

thanks all!
-pete


On May 23, 2011, at 6:56 PM, Jim wrote:





Hi Pete,
OK, the most important part is the pin spacing: .156", that is key to everything. Next, the Molex Style is KK.
Here in an ****example**** part #: Molex: 09-52-3103; Mouser # 538-09-52-3103.
This is a specific # for a 10 pin, PC card edge pin to mother board solder in connector. They have various pin numbers available. From memory, in certain cases I had to use combinations of connectors to come up with the correct pin match.
I'd suggest you take a look at the most common boards; the bus select and the channel modules. Look at how many pins there are (usually broken into sections) and find what the minimum number of connectors you'd need to use for each board.
This will change again when you get to the master section boards, aux, tone, echo send, whatever. The actual master board (logic sections) are wired differently, there are connectors on the end of cables that mate to the board edge connectors. Save this section for last.
So, take a look at what you have, see what is available and order up what you need. I'd really suggest just doing the entire board. It will look like a huge job, but if you break it down into sections and just do a couple hours a day, it will eventually get done.
My other suggestion is to look into a powered solder removal tool. BTW, you do have a GOOD variable heat solder iron, yes? Check out: 

http://www.howardelectronics.com/
I get most of our shops' work stations, soldering, magnifiing, etc. stuff here. 

http://www.howardelectronics.com/goot/tp100as.html

and

http://www.howardelectronics.com/den-on/sc7000.html
are examples of the type of tool that is easy to use while on your back looking up. These may seem expensive, but save a lot of time. Consider it............. 

Just a few quick tips:

1. Eye protection!!!!!! Should be obvious.......

2.  Very good light and magnification
3. A helper to gently press the connector down from above (they WILL end up crooked if you don't) and to double check things.
4. Check all the "zero ohm" jumpers between the back plane board sections............these look like little 1/4W resistors, but have no resistance. They caused me many problems...........you can replace with the same part or carefully use solid "bus wire".
5. Do a very good job removing ALL of the old solder AND flux! Old tooth brushes work great; use de-natured alcohol and distilled water. Good workmanship here will save you problems later on. Be neat when soldering, there are places it is VERY easy to bridge across two traces, you don't want to do that. After you do a section, take a break and let your helper check your work. A second set of eyes is great to have, and can pick up details in areas that you've been looking at too long to really "see" anymore.
6. The power supply and ground cables that solder directly into the back plane are likely poorly soldered. Remove, de-solder, de-flux, re-strip, re-tin and re-solder them all. 

7 Go slow, take breaks and get yourself into a comfortable position.
8. Shoot the list a mail if you have any questions. There are more than a few of us here who have spent plenty of time underneath Neoteks. Good luck! 

Regards, Jim



At 01:40 PM 5/23/2011, you wrote:
jim - if you could shoot me this info at your earliest convenience i would be forever grateful. 

thanks....

pete

On May 21, 2011, at 10:17 AM, Jim wrote:

>
> Hi Pete,
>
> IIRC, there are two different pin pitches (pin size and spacing) available for this type connector. I do have the info for the correct part, but won't be able to get it to you till Monday. 
>
> Regards, Jim
>
>
>
> At 09:53 AM 5/21/2011, you wrote:
>> hey frank -
>> i did... i wiggled one on there (one meaning not both the 10 and 12 position at the same time) while the card was out.. it was def. not an easy fit. so with 4 in place on the mother board there is just no way to rock the card back and forth to get the thing to mate correctly. i was using enough force to get me to the point of thinking "this can't be right" .. we all have experienced this point while working on something ... dig? 
>>
>> anyone else on the list here have a known correct replacement for series IIIc modules? the receptacles are def. a bit bigger in the originals. see photo attached. i will be talking to a tech at digi-key later and see what they say. and i'll report back. 
>>
>> 1000 thanks...
>>
>> pete
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 21, 2011, at 1:56 AM, Frank Moscowitz wrote:
>>
>> > I feel partially responsible for that mishap - the not fitting - the ones I put in my Series 1 fit the pins a bit snugly, but it wasn't impossible to get things to mate - some force was required though - IIRC on that series III the connectors felt a little loose... have you tried test fitting some on a module outside of the board? 
>> >
>> > FM
>> >
>> > On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 11:31 PM, pete <[email protected]> wrote: 
>> > UGH
>> >
>> > the molex connectors i ordered don't fit. they are the correct dimensions except for the receptacles... the holes are too small for the card connectors. i did a pair of channels and just could not get the cards to seat AT ALL. i fear that the correct part may not be available anymore or something like that... time to talk to digi-key on the phone! 
>> >
>> > well... i guess for the time being i'll put the old ones back in (before cleaning them really well) and i'll see if that fixes these 2 channels. 
>> >
>> > -pete
>> >
>> >
>> > On May 20, 2011, at 7:26 PM, Jim wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Hi Pete,
>> > >
>> > > IMO, best to stick with Iso and follow what Ike noted. He also gave a great treatment on how to identify bad solder joints; pay close attention! Using D5 or some of the other stuff can end up causing the type of mess you previously posted on the top side of the mother board. It will leave a lubricant/protection residue (good *inside* pots and switches, but bad on the surface of things) that will attract dust, dirt, etc. over time. 
>> > >
>> > > There used to be some really great cleaning, treating and lubricating chemicals on the market but some of them were really toxic and probably are what killed off many of my brain cells............TCE, DCE, and such. 
>> > >
>> > > About the most "harsh" stuff I use anymore is Acetone. It does a pretty decent job of removing flux residue (if you scrub with an old tooth brush well), but it can also dissolve and even melt some type of plastics...........always test on a tiny portion before using! It's very flammable too, stay ventilated and be careful. 
>> > >
>> > > A couple years ago on the list, someone had mentioned a cleaner/treatment for pots and switches............."stabil...something"? I think you'd buy a xx quantity and then dilute with water before using? Or could have been on the Ampex list, (see what I mean about brain cells?). 
>> > >
>> > > Regards, Jim
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > At 03:25 PM 5/20/2011, you wrote:
>> > >> so is isopropyl alcohol the way to go here?
>> > >>
>> > >> pete
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On May 20, 2011, at 2:59 PM, Ike Zimbel wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Proceed with caution. I just had a chat about this yesterday with a colleague in Nashville. I own some D-5, and I very rarely use it. It is a very powerful oxide remover, and should probably be removed with isopropyl after use. Check the CAIG web site and follow their instructions. I prefer to use G-5 (ProGold) in small quantities for this sort of thing, and F-5 for pots and switches. 
>> > >> > best,
>> > >> > Ike
>> > >> >
>> > >> > On 11-05-20 2:42 PM, pete wrote:
>> > >> >> what is the collective thought on Deoxit D5 on this type of cleaning we have been talking about (to resolve intermittency issues)? i have a can of that on hand actually. 
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> -pete
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> On May 20, 2011, at 11:08 AM, Donald Put wrote:
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>> In addition to all the fine advice Matt and Ike shared, I've found oxidized IC pins/sockets at times when going through my Series II. I've also found ICs with bent pins that "curled" up when someone pushed them in but were touching the socket just enough to get an intermittent connection. Granted, this is a rare problem but it's one I've seen a few times. When you pull a channel out, take the time to remove the IC (if they're socketed on a Series III), clean the pins/sockets, and reinstall. Even if this isn't the immediate problem it will go a long way to help you avoid more issues in the long run. 
>> > >> >>>
>> > >> >>> Cheers,
>> > >> >>> --
>> > >> >>> Don
>> > >> >>>
>> > >> >> ------
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> View the list online at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] 
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> You can unsubscribe at anytime by sending an email to mailto:[email protected] with "unsubscribe neotek" in the message body. If you have any difficulties, or questions --please send an email to mailto:[email protected]. 
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> The Neotek list is lovingly hosted by Catapult Web. Remember that any message or reply sent to the list will be automatically forwarded to all subscribers. 
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> Vive Le Neotek!
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> Thanks.
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >
>> > >> > --
>> > >> > Ike Zimbel,
>> > >> > Zimbel Audio Productions Ltd.
>> > >> > Toronto
>> > >> > 416-720-0887
>> > >> >
>> > >> > "Studio House Calls". Authorized Warranty service for Allen& Heath, Clear-Com, Drawmer, Soundcraft, SPL and Yamaha. Repairs and upgrades to analog audio equipment including: AMEK, dbx, Neve, Neotek, MCI, Soundcraft and more. Ask about our RF frequency co-ordination services! 
>> > >> > www.zimbelaudio.com
>> > >> >
>> > >> > ------
>> > >> >
>> > >> > View the list online at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] 
>> > >> >
>> > >> > You can unsubscribe at anytime by sending an email to mailto:[email protected] with "unsubscribe neotek" in the message body. If you have any difficulties, or questions --please send an email to mailto:[email protected]. 
>> > >> >
>> > >> > The Neotek list is lovingly hosted by Catapult Web. Remember that any message or reply sent to the list will be automatically forwarded to all subscribers. 
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Vive Le Neotek!
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Thanks.
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> > >> ------
>> > >>
>> > >> View the list online at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] 
>> > >>
>> > >> You can unsubscribe at anytime by sending an email to mailto:[email protected] with "unsubscribe neotek" in the message body. If you have any difficulties, or questions --please send an email to mailto:[email protected]. 
>> > >>
>> > >> The Neotek list is lovingly hosted by Catapult Web. Remember that any message or reply sent to the list will be automatically forwarded to all subscribers. 
>> > >>
>> > >> Vive Le Neotek!
>> > >>
>> > >> Thanks.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ------
>> > >
>> > > View the list online at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] 
>> > >
>> > > You can unsubscribe at anytime by sending an email to mailto:[email protected] with "unsubscribe neotek" in the message body. If you have any difficulties, or questions --please send an email to mailto:[email protected]. 
>> > >
>> > > The Neotek list is lovingly hosted by Catapult Web. Remember that any message or reply sent to the list will be automatically forwarded to all subscribers. 
>> > >
>> > > Vive Le Neotek!
>> > >
>> > > Thanks.
>> > >
>> >
>> > ------
>> >
>> > View the list online at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] 
>> >
>> > You can unsubscribe at anytime by sending an email to mailto:[email protected] with "unsubscribe neotek" in the message body. If you have any difficulties, or questions --please send an email to mailto:[email protected]. 
>> >
>> > The Neotek list is lovingly hosted by Catapult Web. Remember that any message or reply sent to the list will be automatically forwarded to all subscribers. 
>> >
>> > Vive Le Neotek!
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>>
>> hey frank -
>> i did... i wiggled one on there (one meaning not both the 10 and 12 position at the same time) while the card was out.. it was def. not an easy fit. so with 4 in place on the mother board there is just no way to rock the card back and forth to get the thing to mate correctly. i was using enough force to get me to the point of thinking "this can't be right" ... we all have experienced this point while working on something ... dig? 
>>
>> anyone else on the list here have a known correct replacement for series IIIc modules? the receptacles are def. a bit bigger in the originals. see photo attached. i will be talking to a tech at digi-key later and see what they say. and i'll report back. 
>>
>> 1000 thanks...
>>
>> pete
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 21, 2011, at 1:56 AM, Frank Moscowitz wrote:
>>
>>> I feel partially responsible for that mishap - the not fitting - the ones I put in my Series 1 fit the pins a bit snugly, but it wasn't impossible to get things to mate - some force was required though - IIRC on that series III the connectors felt a little loose... have you tried test fitting some on a module outside of the board? 
>>>
>>> FM
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 11:31 PM, pete <<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote: 
>>> UGH
>>>
>>> the molex connectors i ordered don't fit. they are the correct dimensions except for the receptacles... the holes are too small for the card connectors. i did a pair of channels and just could not get the cards to seat AT ALL. i fear that the correct part may not be available anymore or something like that... time to talk to digi-key on the phone! 
>>>
>>> well... i guess for the time being i'll put the old ones back in (before cleaning them really well) and i'll see if that fixes these 2 channels. 
>>>
>>> -pete
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 20, 2011, at 7:26 PM, Jim wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Hi Pete,
>>> >
>>> > IMO, best to stick with Iso and follow what Ike noted. He also gave a great treatment on how to identify bad solder joints; pay close attention! Using D5 or some of the other stuff can end up causing the type of mess you previously posted on the top side of the mother board. It will leave a lubricant/protection residue (good *inside* pots and switches, but bad on the surface of things) that will attract dust, dirt, etc. over time. 
>>> >
>>> > There used to be some really great cleaning, treating and lubricating chemicals on the market but some of them were really toxic and probably are what killed off many of my brain cells............TCE, DCE, and such. 
>>> >
>>> > About the most "harsh" stuff I use anymore is Acetone. It does a pretty decent job of removing flux residue (if you scrub with an old tooth brush well), but it can also dissolve and even melt some type of plastics...........always test on a tiny portion before using! It's very flammable too, stay ventilated and be careful. 
>>> >
>>> > A couple years ago on the list, someone had mentioned a cleaner/treatment for pots and switches............."stabil...something"? I think you'd buy a xx quantity and then dilute with water before using? Or could have been on the Ampex list, (see what I mean about brain cells?). 
>>> >
>>> > Regards, Jim
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > At 03:25 PM 5/20/2011, you wrote:
>>> >> so is isopropyl alcohol the way to go here?
>>> >>
>>> >> pete
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On May 20, 2011, at 2:59 PM, Ike Zimbel wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Proceed with caution. I just had a chat about this yesterday with a colleague in Nashville. I own some D-5, and I very rarely use it. It is a very powerful oxide remover, and should probably be removed with isopropyl after use. Check the CAIG web site and follow their instructions. I prefer to use G-5 (ProGold) in small quantities for this sort of thing, and F-5 for pots and switches. 
>>> >> > best,
>>> >> > Ike
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On 11-05-20 2:42 PM, pete wrote:
>>> >> >> what is the collective thought on Deoxit D5 on this type of cleaning we have been talking about (to resolve intermittency issues)? i have a can of that on hand actually. 
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> -pete
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On May 20, 2011, at 11:08 AM, Donald Put wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>> In addition to all the fine advice Matt and Ike shared, I've found oxidized IC pins/sockets at times when going through my Series II. I've also found ICs with bent pins that "curled" up when someone pushed them in but were touching the socket just enough to get an intermittent connection. Granted, this is a rare problem but it's one I've seen a few times. When you pull a channel out, take the time to remove the IC (if they're socketed on a Series III), clean the pins/sockets, and reinstall. Even if this isn't the immediate problem it will go a long way to help you avoid more issues in the long run. 
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Cheers,
>>> >> >>> --
>>> >> >>> Don
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >> ------
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> View the list online at: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]>http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] 
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> You can unsubscribe at anytime by sending an email to mailto:[email protected] with "unsubscribe neotek" in the message body. If you have any difficulties, or questions --please send an email to mailto:[email protected]. 
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> The Neotek list is lovingly hosted by Catapult Web. Remember that any message or reply sent to the list will be automatically forwarded to all subscribers. 
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Vive Le Neotek!
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Thanks.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> > --
>>> >> > Ike Zimbel,
>>> >> > Zimbel Audio Productions Ltd.
>>> >> > Toronto
>>> >> > <tel:416-720-0887>416-720-0887
>>> >> >
>>> >> > "Studio House Calls". Authorized Warranty service for Allen& Heath, Clear-Com, Drawmer, Soundcraft, SPL and Yamaha. Repairs and upgrades to analog audio equipment including: AMEK, dbx, Neve, Neotek, MCI, Soundcraft and more. Ask about our RF frequency co-ordination services! 
>>> >> > <http://www.zimbelaudio.com/>www.zimbelaudio.com
>>> >> >
>>> >> > ------
>>> >> >
>>> >> > View the list online at: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]>http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] 
>>> >> >
>>> >> > You can unsubscribe at anytime by sending an email to mailto:[email protected] with "unsubscribe neotek" in the message body. If you have any difficulties, or questions --please send an email to mailto:[email protected]. 
>>> >> >
>>> >> > The Neotek list is lovingly hosted by Catapult Web. Remember that any message or reply sent to the list will be automatically forwarded to all subscribers. 
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Vive Le Neotek!
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Thanks.
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >> ------
>>> >>
>>> >> View the list online at: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]>http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] 
>>> >>
>>> >> You can unsubscribe at anytime by sending an email to mailto:[email protected] with "unsubscribe neotek" in the message body. If you have any difficulties, or questions --please send an email to mailto:[email protected]. 
>>> >>
>>> >> The Neotek list is lovingly hosted by Catapult Web. Remember that any message or reply sent to the list will be automatically forwarded to all subscribers. 
>>> >>
>>> >> Vive Le Neotek!
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ------
>>> >
>>> > View the list online at: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]>http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] 
>>> >
>>> > You can unsubscribe at anytime by sending an email to mailto:[email protected] with "unsubscribe neotek" in the message body. If you have any difficulties, or questions --please send an email to mailto:[email protected]. 
>>> >
>>> > The Neotek list is lovingly hosted by Catapult Web. Remember that any message or reply sent to the list will be automatically forwarded to all subscribers. 
>>> >
>>> > Vive Le Neotek!
>>> >
>>> > Thanks.
>>> >
>>>
>>> ------
>>>
>>> View the list online at: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]>http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] 
>>>
>>> You can unsubscribe at anytime by sending an email to mailto:[email protected] with "unsubscribe neotek" in the message body. If you have any difficulties, or questions --please send an email to mailto:[email protected]. 
>>>
>>> The Neotek list is lovingly hosted by Catapult Web. Remember that any message or reply sent to the list will be automatically forwarded to all subscribers. 
>>>
>>> Vive Le Neotek!
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>
>
> ------
>
> View the list online at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] 
>
> You can unsubscribe at anytime by sending an email to mailto:[email protected] with "unsubscribe neotek" in the message body. If you have any difficulties, or questions --please send an email to mailto:[email protected]. 
>
> The Neotek list is lovingly hosted by Catapult Web. Remember that any message or reply sent to the list will be automatically forwarded to all subscribers. 
>
> Vive Le Neotek!
>
> Thanks.
>

------
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The Neotek list is lovingly hosted by Catapult Web. Remember that any message or reply sent to the list will be automatically forwarded to all subscribers. 

Vive Le Neotek!

Thanks.



------
View the list online at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]
You can unsubscribe at anytime by sending an email to mailto:[email protected] with "unsubscribe neotek" in the message body. If you have any difficulties, or questions --please send an email to mailto:[email protected].
The Neotek list is lovingly hosted by Catapult Web. Remember that any message or reply sent to the list will be automatically forwarded to all subscribers. 

Vive Le Neotek!

Thanks.





--
Ike Zimbel,
Zimbel Audio Productions Ltd.
Toronto
416-720-0887

"Studio House Calls". Authorized Warranty service for Allen&  Heath, Clear-Com, 
Drawmer, Soundcraft, SPL and Yamaha. Repairs and upgrades to analog audio equipment 
including: AMEK, dbx, Neve, Neotek, MCI, Soundcraft and more. Ask about our RF frequency 
co-ordination services!
www.zimbelaudio.com

------

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Vive Le Neotek!

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