Gary r I hope you noticed that in the quotation provided by JAS - there was yet another use of the term ‘mode’ in reference to the sign process.. You previously expressed surprise, saying that you could never understand why I use the term- and I hope that this shows you that my use is not an aberration..
As for the outline of the determination process of information movement - from the Object through Represenetamen to Interpretant - there’s no dispute from my side on that. But that’s not what I’m talking about. Obviously data and information moves from the external source of stimulus….via the processing site [ the Representamen ] to a conclusion/interpretant. What I’m talking about is the origin of the process of semiosis within the individual. Peirce outlines this very well in 8.314 where he explains his interaction with the current weather. And - the process doesn’t BEGIN with the external Object, the weather. It begins with him, as the sign-vehicle, the holder of the mediating Representamen... ‘peeping between the window curtains’. The dynamical Object “is the impression which I have presumably derived from peeping between the window curtains”. Note - that the DO as a pat of the semiosic process emerges only with Peirce taking action and interacting with the external weather. So- the process begins with Peirce, as the sign vehicle, making an active connection with the external weather [the Dynamic Object]….This interaction then can move into the linear informational stage with the data of this DO being interpreted by Peirce [Representamen holder]…to an Interpretant. That is - there are TWO processes to examine…. Andn of course, I absolutely disagree with JAS’s claim that First, Second and Third don’t refer to this ordinal process of semiosic integration as outlined by Peirce in the weather example..but to the number of correlates and their type! I think here’s a difference in terminology between ordinal and cardinal terms. Edwina > On Oct 28, 2024, at 10:44 PM, Gary Richmond <[email protected]> wrote: > > Jon, List, > > JAS: [A]ccording to Peirce, "the ordinal process of semiosis" is from the > object through the sign toward the interpretant; the sign mediates between > the object and the interpretant; the object determines the sign to determine > the interpretant. > > Well, speaking of 'basic Peirce', I didn't think that this was in any way > controversial. > > Thanks for your posts on semeiotic grammar today as they clarify some 'basic' > -- I thought, uncontroversial -- ideas in semeiotic. > > Best, > > Gary R > > On Mon, Oct 28, 2024 at 10:10 PM Jon Alan Schmidt <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> List: >> >> On the contrary, according to Peirce, "the ordinal process of semiosis" is >> from the object through the sign toward the interpretant; the sign mediates >> between the object and the interpretant; the object determines the sign to >> determine the interpretant. >> >> CSP: As a medium, the Sign is essentially in a triadic relation, to its >> Object which determines it, and to its Interpretant which it determines. In >> its relation to the Object, the Sign is passive; that is to say, its >> correspondence to the Object is brought about by an effect upon the Sign, >> the Object remaining unaffected. On the other hand, in its relation to the >> Interpretant the Sign is active, determining the Interpretant without being >> itself thereby affected. (EP 2:544n22, 1906) >> >> CSP: I will say that a sign is anything, of whatsoever mode of being, which >> mediates between an object and an interpretant; since it is both determined >> by the object relatively to the interpretant, and determines the >> interpretant in reference to the object, in such wise as to cause the >> interpretant to be determined by the object through the mediation of this >> "sign." (EP 2:410, 1907) >> >> Regards, >> >> Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA >> Structural Engineer, Synechist Philosopher, Lutheran Christian >> www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt >> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt> / twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt >> <http://twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt> >> On Mon, Oct 28, 2024 at 8:35 PM Edwina Taborsky <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> JAS - list >>> >>> We’ve been through this before. I completely disagree with your >>> interpretation of this section and disagree that Peirce was referring to >>> the NUMBER of correlates . I consider that he was referring to the ordinal >>> process of semiosis, where the sign vehicle which holds the Representamen >>> or knowledge base FIRST senses an external data input [the SECOND site] >>> ….and this data input becomes the Dynamic and Immediate Objects and then, >>> the THIRD process is the result, thr analysis of this data to result in >>> the various Interpretants. >>> >>> This is the basic syllogistic format. >>> >>> Therefore - I consider it invalid that you self-assign the term ‘correctly’ >>> to your interpretation. It’s your interpretation - and I have a different >>> one. >>> >>> Edwina >> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ >> ARISBE: THE PEIRCE GATEWAY is now at >> https://cspeirce.com <https://cspeirce.com/> and, just as well, at >> https://www.cspeirce.com <https://www.cspeirce.com/> . It'll take a while >> to repair / update all the links! >> ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON >> PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> . >> ► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> with UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE >> of the message and nothing in the body. More at >> https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html . >> ► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP; moderated by Gary Richmond; and >> co-managed by him and Ben Udell. > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > ARISBE: THE PEIRCE GATEWAY is now at > https://cspeirce.com and, just as well, at > https://www.cspeirce.com . It'll take a while to repair / update all the > links! > ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON > PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to [email protected] > . > ► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to [email protected] > with UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE of the message and nothing in > the body. More at https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html . > ► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP; moderated by Gary Richmond; and > co-managed by him and Ben Udell.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ARISBE: THE PEIRCE GATEWAY is now at https://cspeirce.com and, just as well, at https://www.cspeirce.com . It'll take a while to repair / update all the links! ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to [email protected] . ► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to [email protected] with UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE of the message and nothing in the body. More at https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html . ► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP; moderated by Gary Richmond; and co-managed by him and Ben Udell.
