+1
On 3/9/2021 7:56 PM, Jon Alan Schmidt wrote:
Terry, Edwina, List:
TR: Do I have that right?
No, I frankly do not see it that way at all. Again, the closest that
we can come to "experiencing" 1ns is perceiving an unvarying sound or
color, and even this is a poor approximation because it requires
either the compression and decompression of air molecules or the
oscillation of light waves at a certain frequency. According to
Peirce, any /event /is a manifestation of 2ns (not 1ns) because it
involves change, and any laws /governing /events are manifestations of
3ns--no human participation is necessary. All signs are also
(paradigmatic) manifestations of 3ns, although they are iconic (1ns),
indexical (2ns), and symbolic (3ns) to varying degrees.
ET: Every 'action' is triadic. So, the stars imploding is a
triadic action ...
On the contrary, according to Peirce there are dyadic actions (2ns)
and there are triadic "actions" (3ns), although I advocate confining
this term to the former since it has the same root as /actual/. Terry
even cited one of the relevant passages, but since he did not quote
it, I will.
CSP: All dynamical action, or action of brute force, physical or
psychical, either takes place between two subjects,--whether they
react equally upon each other, or one is agent and the other
patient, entirely or partially,--or at any rate is a resultant of
such actions between pairs. But by "semiosis" I mean, on the
contrary, an action, or influence, which is, or involves, a
cooperation of /three /subjects, such as a sign, its object, and
its interpretant, this tri-relative influence not being in any way
resolvable into actions between pairs. (CP 5.484, EP 2:411, 1907)
The stars imploding is a dyadic/dynamical action. So is the /brute
/effect of the resulting gravity waves on a scientific instrument.
However, the /detection /of the waves--i.e., the recognition that the
instrument's behavior is an indexical sign of their impinging upon
it--and the /interpretation /of them in turn as an indexical sign of
stars imploding are triadic/semiosic processes. Obviously, any
subsequent communications about these matters are, as well.
Regards,
Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA
Structural Engineer, Synechist Philosopher, Lutheran Christian
www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt
<http://www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt> -
twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt <http://twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt>
On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 7:09 PM Edwina Taborsky <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Terry, list
I'll take a different view. Every 'action' is triadic. So, the
stars imploding is a triadic action - and I'd say it has all three
categories functional in this implosion - regardless of who saw
it, heard it or when. Other stars certainly were 'aware'.
Now - we can consider our reception of this event centuries after
the event. I consider that Robert Marty's outline of the lattice
is an excellent analytic framework for working through these steps
from first input of data to some kind of conclusion.
1] First - that human observer 'receives' this data input - as a
triadic sensation, a 'Rhematic Iconic Qualisign', ie, the triad's
three relations are all in a mode of 1ns.[1-1-1] All that this
means is that the sense data has been received. No interpretation.
2] But this first 'hit' immediately must acknowledge the
differentiation between the input external data [from the
imploding star] and the receiver. So, the experience could move
into a rhematic iconic sinsign -[1-1-2] which introduces the
differentiation of 2ns as mediator by the sinsign of 2ns.
3] Then, this moves through the human observer's system - and -
Thirdness moves in, as this individual begins to get an 'idea' of
what's going on...and the sense data becomes a Rhematic Iiconic
Legisign [the legisign is 3ns].1-1-3 which makes use of this
human's scientific experience stored in 3ns.
.- and then into a Rhematic Indexical Legisign [1-2-3] which
continues with the analysis of the actual indexical data in
2ns by using the knowledge-based 3ns analysis [legisign]. Our
individual might end the process there...an individual
interpretation of local stimuli as referenced to a general rule.
or..might go further..and come up with a Dicent symbolic Legisign
[2-3-3]..which is viewing the input data as a conclusion of the
analysis and, eg, deciding that all this data is the 'particular
attribute of the law-of-imploding stars. It becomes a part of the
'scholarly analysis'...and can be what is reported in journals.
I hope this isn't too confusing. [Robert Marty also explains how
this path, moving from first sensate input can also go very wrong,
and can move away from the actuality of the hard data in 2ns...and
move into 'magical thinking'!
Edwina
Stars imploding long before humanity came into being and
presence on Earth (an event of 1ns) emit gravity waves
<https://scitechdaily.com/violent-neutron-star-collision-sends-gravitational-waves-shuddering-through-the-fabric-of-space-and-time/#:~:text=When%20two%20neutron%20stars%20spiral,collision%20of%20two%20black%20holes.>.
Those waveforms travel through time and space until eons upon
eons later they’re detected by a human observer on Earth (2ns)
in 2015. After confirmation and concurrence, the data and
event are reported in scientific journals (3ns). While
semiotic 2ns is an (indexical?) relation connecting the waves
with the collision, semiosic 3ns relations only began in 2015
with the human observation and reporting thereof (EP 2.411).
Do I have that right?
Terry
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