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Progressive News & Views (since 1982)
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Show me where I am wrong...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garth Cartledge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 7:36 PM
Subject: [pnews-views] Re: [pnews-news] Islam Means Death to Infidels
> -----
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> http://pnews.org/
> Progressive News & Views (since 1982)
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>
>
> ---
>
> Keep this up. It is lovely. I love a good fantasy
>
> Garth Cartledge
>
> At 12:46 AM 8/04/2006, you wrote:
>
> > -----
> > / o o \
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> > http://pnews.org/
> >Progressive News & Views (since 1982)
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> >
> >
> >---
> >
> >The American civil war converted chattel property slaves to public
property
> >slaves, and thus made slaves of all blacks as a class to all whites as a
> >class, no matter where they resided. The exact same thing happened upon
the
> >establishment of christrianity early in the fourth century by Constantine
I.
> >Proof? You are surrounded by it. Look at the christian 'work ethic' and
> >the "camel through the eye of the needle' bit. Both support slavery
through
> >the enforcement of poverty and protection of the rich from competition by
> >the poor, and protection of the profits made for them by the poor. All of
> >the blind obedience crap preached from the pulpits every day is just more
> >slave control stuff. Only gunpowder ever overcame it.
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Hank Roth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[email protected]>
> >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 11:05 PM
> >Subject: [pnews-views] Re: [pnews-news] Islam Means Death to Infidels
> >
> >
> > > -----
> > > / o o \
> > > ====OO=====OO===
> > > http://pnews.org/
> > > Progressive News & Views (since 1982)
> > > |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
> > >
> > >
> > > ---
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Slavery and Freedom from Want..
> > >
> > > Enjoy your fantasy Charles. Connecting the reason for Christianity to
> >Roman
> > > culture and slavery as you have done is a stretch of imagination which
> >goes
> > > beyond sane analysis. I've never seen anything from you that even
> >resembles
> > > decent logic - and no citations, no proof, no comparative analysis of
any
> >kind.
> > > Your level of discourse is sinking into the abyss. If you want to tie
> >these
> > > concepts to metaphors, do so, but say so - otherwise, you are
developing
> >your
> > > own terms and they just don't work because they are not true because
they
> > > cannot be proved/have not been proved.
> > >
> > > With any predicate hypothesis you need to lay down your theory and
then
> >develop
> > > it subject to challenge. You have yet to do that. I'm waiting...
> > >
> > > As for real slavery, that is what goes on in some parts of the Sudan
and
> > > elsewhere in Africa today. As for real freedom, that means economic
> >freedom as
> > > well as freedom to choose, to make choices. And to make choices that
will
> >not
> > > be harmful to others.
> > >
> > > Ideas about freedom suffused American culture especially after the
Civil
> >War
> > > for a time, a short time actually - during Reconstruction - which
ended
> >about
> > > 12 years after it was started and it took almost a hundred years to
return
> >to
> > > ideas of "real" freedom of equal rights, privileges and
opportunities -
> >which
> > > included freeing once again those who were once slaves and the
children of
> > > slaves --- this time however with freedom (but not yet full freedom)
to
> >choose
> > > and participate in the political process and enjoy the same rights and
the
> >same
> > > drinking fountains and the same bathrooms, etc.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately the language (how it is applied and how and what it is
> >assumed to
> > > include) of freedom alters its meaning - as does literal "slavery" and
> > > metaphorical slavery - through periods in history as it evolves to be
more
> > > inclusive or skips back to be less so.
> > >
> > > An example was when the "freedom train" in 48 after the war, travelled
> > > this country to demonstrate how this country held freedom up as our
> > > highest standard, and demonstrate the difference between American
freedom
> > > and Nazism, yet visits to the train were interrupted for a time when
it
> > > seemed they might have to integrate the viewing of the exhibits.
Visits
> > > were cancelled in Memphis, TN and Birmingham, AL because city fathers
> > > insisted there that black and white could not go on the train at the
same
> > > time - but the train did visit with incident about 45 other American
> > > cities.
> > >
> > > It is an interesting time in our history - and illustrative of the
> > > problems with freedom and the opposition to black equality -
especially
> > > when German POWS during WWII received better treatment than did
American
> > > solders of color.
> > >
> > > "Free" enterprise also took on the meaning - to
> > > maintain the economic and social "status quo."
> > >
> > > During the Cold War freedom took on new meaning when Truman declared
his
> > > doctrine and people were literally being enslaved in the gulags of the
> > > Soviet Union. The Cold War changed freedom's meaning with the
> > > "Communist World" against the "Free World."
> > >
> > > No words are more central to America than "freedom" along with
"liberty."
> > > The war in Iraq has been called by the Bush administration "operation
> > > Iraqi Freedom." - skewed as that might be. The Civil War was fought,
said
> > > Lincoln to bring about a "new birth of freedom" (from slavery).
> > >
> > > Hank
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, 6 Apr 2006, Charles W. Smith wrote:
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > >
> > > > Using an integration of the best historical evidence available,
> >christianity
> > > > seems to have been invented to be the protector of Roman styled
> >capitalism,
> > > > and the perpetuator of the Roman institution of human slavery. No
new
> > > > invention of 'terms' is necessary to observe this in history. That
> > > > definition of capitalism is the oldest definition in the world, it
is
> >the
> > > > original definition from the late Grecian period that led into the
> >formation
> > > > of Rome. Capitalists still prefer slaves to provide them their
wealth
> >to
> > > > this day. Thus their flight from the USA to the places of cheapest
> >labor.
> > > > .
> > > >>
> > > >> ---
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Please...... AS a card-carrying ex-communist, you are telling me
what
> > > >> capitalism is?
> > > >>
> > > >> And Christianity is most definitely not slavery in the literal
sense.
> > > >> Capitalism is a systemically flawed economic system, but it is not
> > > >> the reason why people are Christians. But that topic has also been
> >covered
> > > >> here before. If you want to try to become a philosopher, try not to
> >invent
> > > >> new terms and definitions.
> > > >>
> > > >> The subject you responded to had nothing to do with the tangent you
got
> > > >> yourself trapped in. Islam means death to infidels. Try to stay on
> >topic.
> > > >>
> > > >> Hank
> > >
> > >
> > > |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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>
> Garth Cartledge
>
> " Despotism sits nowhere so secure as under the effigy and ensigns of
> Freedom", From Imaginary Conversations of Greeks and Romans (1853) by
> Walter Savage Landor 1775-1864
>
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