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Progressive News & Views (since 1982)
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Keep this up. It is lovely. I love a good fantasy
Garth Cartledge
At 12:46 AM 8/04/2006, you wrote:
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>Progressive News & Views (since 1982)
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>---
>
>The American civil war converted chattel property slaves to public property
>slaves, and thus made slaves of all blacks as a class to all whites as a
>class, no matter where they resided. The exact same thing happened upon the
>establishment of christrianity early in the fourth century by Constantine I.
>Proof? You are surrounded by it. Look at the christian 'work ethic' and
>the "camel through the eye of the needle' bit. Both support slavery through
>the enforcement of poverty and protection of the rich from competition by
>the poor, and protection of the profits made for them by the poor. All of
>the blind obedience crap preached from the pulpits every day is just more
>slave control stuff. Only gunpowder ever overcame it.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Hank Roth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 11:05 PM
>Subject: [pnews-views] Re: [pnews-news] Islam Means Death to Infidels
>
>
> > -----
> > / o o \
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> > http://pnews.org/
> > Progressive News & Views (since 1982)
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> >
> >
> > ---
> >
> >
> >
> > Slavery and Freedom from Want..
> >
> > Enjoy your fantasy Charles. Connecting the reason for Christianity to
>Roman
> > culture and slavery as you have done is a stretch of imagination which
>goes
> > beyond sane analysis. I've never seen anything from you that even
>resembles
> > decent logic - and no citations, no proof, no comparative analysis of any
>kind.
> > Your level of discourse is sinking into the abyss. If you want to tie
>these
> > concepts to metaphors, do so, but say so - otherwise, you are developing
>your
> > own terms and they just don't work because they are not true because they
> > cannot be proved/have not been proved.
> >
> > With any predicate hypothesis you need to lay down your theory and then
>develop
> > it subject to challenge. You have yet to do that. I'm waiting...
> >
> > As for real slavery, that is what goes on in some parts of the Sudan and
> > elsewhere in Africa today. As for real freedom, that means economic
>freedom as
> > well as freedom to choose, to make choices. And to make choices that will
>not
> > be harmful to others.
> >
> > Ideas about freedom suffused American culture especially after the Civil
>War
> > for a time, a short time actually - during Reconstruction - which ended
>about
> > 12 years after it was started and it took almost a hundred years to return
>to
> > ideas of "real" freedom of equal rights, privileges and opportunities -
>which
> > included freeing once again those who were once slaves and the children of
> > slaves --- this time however with freedom (but not yet full freedom) to
>choose
> > and participate in the political process and enjoy the same rights and the
>same
> > drinking fountains and the same bathrooms, etc.
> >
> > Unfortunately the language (how it is applied and how and what it is
>assumed to
> > include) of freedom alters its meaning - as does literal "slavery" and
> > metaphorical slavery - through periods in history as it evolves to be more
> > inclusive or skips back to be less so.
> >
> > An example was when the "freedom train" in 48 after the war, travelled
> > this country to demonstrate how this country held freedom up as our
> > highest standard, and demonstrate the difference between American freedom
> > and Nazism, yet visits to the train were interrupted for a time when it
> > seemed they might have to integrate the viewing of the exhibits. Visits
> > were cancelled in Memphis, TN and Birmingham, AL because city fathers
> > insisted there that black and white could not go on the train at the same
> > time - but the train did visit with incident about 45 other American
> > cities.
> >
> > It is an interesting time in our history - and illustrative of the
> > problems with freedom and the opposition to black equality - especially
> > when German POWS during WWII received better treatment than did American
> > solders of color.
> >
> > "Free" enterprise also took on the meaning - to
> > maintain the economic and social "status quo."
> >
> > During the Cold War freedom took on new meaning when Truman declared his
> > doctrine and people were literally being enslaved in the gulags of the
> > Soviet Union. The Cold War changed freedom's meaning with the
> > "Communist World" against the "Free World."
> >
> > No words are more central to America than "freedom" along with "liberty."
> > The war in Iraq has been called by the Bush administration "operation
> > Iraqi Freedom." - skewed as that might be. The Civil War was fought, said
> > Lincoln to bring about a "new birth of freedom" (from slavery).
> >
> > Hank
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 6 Apr 2006, Charles W. Smith wrote:
> > >
> > > ---
> > >
> > > Using an integration of the best historical evidence available,
>christianity
> > > seems to have been invented to be the protector of Roman styled
>capitalism,
> > > and the perpetuator of the Roman institution of human slavery. No new
> > > invention of 'terms' is necessary to observe this in history. That
> > > definition of capitalism is the oldest definition in the world, it is
>the
> > > original definition from the late Grecian period that led into the
>formation
> > > of Rome. Capitalists still prefer slaves to provide them their wealth
>to
> > > this day. Thus their flight from the USA to the places of cheapest
>labor.
> > > .
> > >>
> > >> ---
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Please...... AS a card-carrying ex-communist, you are telling me what
> > >> capitalism is?
> > >>
> > >> And Christianity is most definitely not slavery in the literal sense.
> > >> Capitalism is a systemically flawed economic system, but it is not
> > >> the reason why people are Christians. But that topic has also been
>covered
> > >> here before. If you want to try to become a philosopher, try not to
>invent
> > >> new terms and definitions.
> > >>
> > >> The subject you responded to had nothing to do with the tangent you got
> > >> yourself trapped in. Islam means death to infidels. Try to stay on
>topic.
> > >>
> > >> Hank
> >
> >
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Garth Cartledge
" Despotism sits nowhere so secure as under the effigy and ensigns of
Freedom", From Imaginary Conversations of Greeks and Romans (1853) by
Walter Savage Landor 1775-1864
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