Hi Brett, I understand your points. I think the main point of difference is the gap in usability between GitHub discussions and Discourse - I think it's massive, but I understand others will be less enamoured by GitHub and less frustrated by Discourse than me.
One correction: but that does make the discussion specific to the repo With Organisation Discussions <https://github.blog/changelog/2022-04-12-organization-discussions/>, discussions are attached to the organisation, not a repr. Samuel -- Samuel Colvin On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 at 19:45, Brett Cannon <br...@python.org> wrote: > > > On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 3:45 AM Samuel Colvin <s...@muelcolvin.com> wrote: > >> Reading this thread and thinking about discuss.python.org/Discourse - >> I'm surprised no one is advocating github discussions >> <https://docs.github.com/en/discussions>. >> > > I think it's because discuss.python.org is what we decided to try years > ago at the 2018 core dev sprint (so nearly 4 years ago), while GitHub > Discussions would be a brand new thing to try and get people on board with. > > >> >> In particular organisation discussions >> <https://github.blog/changelog/2022-04-12-organization-discussions/> would >> provide an obvious central place for discussions that would be easy to find >> and use for everyone. >> >> Advantages of github discussions: >> >> - Virtually all developers have a github account and are >> familiar with github & GFM >> >> > Discourse lets you log in via GitHub. I'm not sure if Discourse is > straight Commonmark (probably is, though, since the co-creator of Discourse > kicked off Commonmark because of Discourse). > > >> >> - Github provides great support for participating or watching >> discussion via email - Discourse is really bad at this (at least by >> default) >> - GH discussions obviously integrate well with the rest of github - >> links to issues & pull requests (including other repos), discussions can >> be >> moved to other repos, issues can be created from discussions, issues can >> be >> converted to discussions - e.g. if someone creates a bug report which >> should really be a feature discussion >> >> > True, but that does make the discussion specific to the repo, which in > this instance would be CPython and somewhat the language itself. This > doesn't encompass something like packaging which has completely moved all > development discussions over to discuss.python.org (and people have been > generally happy with it). So I'm not sure if moving over to Discussions > would actually lead to discuss.python.org going anywhere if you were > trying to eliminate that need. > > >> >> - No extra service to maintain or pay for >> >> This is already true for discuss.python.org; Discourse is kindly > donating the hosting on their SaaS platform. > >> >> - GH discussions (unlike issues) provide good threading functionality >> without the full treeview madness of hackernews etc. >> >> Before going "all in" with discuss.python.org/Discourse I think GH >> discussions should be seriously considered. >> > > If you can get people excited enough to say they are willing to give it a > try, and the folks saying they are going to stop participating if/when we > move to Discourse would actually stay if we moved to Discussions, then we > can definitely talk about it. > > -Brett > > >> >> Samuel >> >> -- >> >> Samuel Colvin >> >> >> On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 at 12:19, Petr Viktorin <encu...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> Currently development discussions are split between multiple >>> communication channels, for example: >>> - python-dev and discuss.python.org for design discussions, >>> - GitHub Issues and Pull Requests for specific changes, >>> - IRC, Discord and private chats for real-time discussions, >>> - Topic-specific channels like typing-sig. >>> >>> While most of these serve different needs, there is too much overlap >>> between python-dev and discuss.python.org. It seems that for most >>> people, this situation is worse than sticking to either one platform – >>> even if we don't go with that person's favorite. >>> >>> The discuss.python.org experiment has been going on for quite a while, >>> and while the platform is not without its issues, we consider it a >>> success. The Core Development category is busier than python-dev. >>> According to staff, discuss.python.org is much easier to moderate.. If >>> you're following python-dev but not discuss.python.org, you're missing >>> out. >>> >>> The Steering Council would like to switch from python-dev to >>> discuss.python.org. >>> Practically, this means: >>> - Moving the required PEP announcements to discuss.python.org >>> - Moving discuss.python.org up in the devguide communications page >>> (https://devguide.python.org/communication/) >>> - And that's it? >>> >>> I imagine that the mailing list will stay around for continuing past >>> discussion threads and for announcements, eventually switching to >>> auto-reject incoming messages with a pointer to discuss.python.org. >>> >>> To be clear, discuss.python.org allows editing posts, which is frankly >>> handy for typos and clarifications. Editing alone should not be used for >>> adding new info -- we should cultivate a culture of being friendly to >>> mail users & notification watchers. This probably bears repeating in a >>> few places. >>> >>> We're aware not everyone wants to use the discuss.python.org website, >>> but there are some ways to avoid it: >>> >>> - For new PEPs, you can point your RSS client to >>> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/peps.rss – it's not e-mail, but many >>> email clients have RSS support. You can also watch the Steering Council >>> issues on GitHub (https://github.com/python/steering-council/issues/) >>> for important questions and discussions. >>> >>> - You can use discuss.python.org's “mailing list mode” (which >>> subscribes >>> you to all new posts), possibly with filtering and/or categorizing >>> messages locally. >>> >>> However, we would like to know if this will pose an undue burden to >>> anyone, if there are workflows or usage problems that we are not aware >>> of. As mentioned, this is something the Steering Council thinks is a >>> good idea, but we want to make sure we're aware of all the impact when >>> we make the final decision. >>> >>> >>> >>> – Petr, on behalf of the Steering Council >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ >>> Message archived at >>> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/VHFLDK43DSSLHACT67X4QA3UZU73WYYJ/ >>> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ >> Message archived at >> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/RNLXOVCSVA63YIGTQRONBXBY4PROWNMJ/ >> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ >> >
_______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/KFLHKB326DVOED3HZ3MCL3RHAFZHIXEO/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
