RE: LAN Design [7:54023]
If you are serious about designing this netwoek and designing ir correctly for scalability and functionality, pick up a good network design book. My reccomendation is Top Down Network Design, by Priscilla Openheimer. U have two copies one at home and one at the office, I refer to this tome quite often. Great book, excellent methodology. Tim Medley, CCNP+Voice, CCDP, CWNA Sr. Network Architect VoIP Group iReadyWorld -Original Message- From: Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 11:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: LAN Design [7:54023] If i have to design network for 3 storey on a building. There are around 200-300 workstations in 2 storey each. Is it advisable to use Ethernet to link them up. As for the other storey it is for admin purpose. The distance is around 150m between the further storey. However it is possible to put a switch/router at the middle for interconnect. Cheers, Jimmy Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54029&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LAN Design [7:54023]
1- what media are the floors going to coonect with? 2- what are the core routers/switches going to have installed( gig or copper)? 3- what apps are going to be on the floors and the admin floor ? 4- what protocols are running on the network? 5- is it all going to be layer 3 or a mix of L3 and L2 ? Larry Letterman Data Center Design and Implementation Team Cisco Systems, San Jose Tim Medley wrote: >If you are serious about designing this netwoek and designing ir correctly >for scalability and functionality, pick up a good network design book. > >My reccomendation is Top Down Network Design, by Priscilla Openheimer. U >have two copies one at home and one at the office, I refer to this tome >quite often. Great book, excellent methodology. > > > >Tim Medley, CCNP+Voice, CCDP, CWNA >Sr. Network Architect >VoIP Group >iReadyWorld > > >-Original Message- >From: Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 11:01 PM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: LAN Design [7:54023] > > >If i have to design network for 3 storey on a building. There are around >200-300 workstations in 2 storey each. Is it advisable to use Ethernet to >link them up. As for the other storey it is for admin purpose. The distance >is around 150m between the further storey. However it is possible to put a >switch/router at the middle for interconnect. > >Cheers, >Jimmy -- Larry Letterman Network Engineer Cisco Systems Inc. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54032&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LAN Design [7:54023]
Let say if i use a 100Mbps switch for 300 user for each floor. Will it be very slow? How do i really calculate the BW for each user. Doing an approximation? 100M/300 ? Cheers, Jimmy ""Jimmy"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > If i have to design network for 3 storey on a building. There are around > 200-300 workstations in 2 storey each. Is it advisable to use Ethernet to > link them up. As for the other storey it is for admin purpose. The distance > is around 150m between the further storey. However it is possible to put a > switch/router at the middle for interconnect. > > Cheers, > Jimmy Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54034&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LAN Design [7:54023]
which platform are you going to use for 300 users... 6500 ? 4006 ? or multiple stackables ? Jimmy wrote: >Let say if i use a 100Mbps switch for 300 user for each floor. Will it be >very slow? How do i really calculate the BW for each user. Doing an >approximation? 100M/300 ? > >Cheers, >Jimmy > >""Jimmy"" wrote in message >[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > >>If i have to design network for 3 storey on a building. There are around >>200-300 workstations in 2 storey each. Is it advisable to use Ethernet to >>link them up. As for the other storey it is for admin purpose. The >> >distance > >>is around 150m between the further storey. However it is possible to put a >>switch/router at the middle for interconnect. >> >>Cheers, >>Jimmy -- Larry Letterman Network Engineer Cisco Systems Inc. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54039&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LAN Design [7:54023]
hmm...Let don't talk about product. Just for a general view. Will a normal 100Mbps switch able to support 300 user? Is it realistic in real life application? ""Larry Letterman"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > which platform are you going to use for 300 users... > 6500 ? > 4006 ? > or multiple stackables ? > > Jimmy wrote: > > >Let say if i use a 100Mbps switch for 300 user for each floor. Will it be > >very slow? How do i really calculate the BW for each user. Doing an > >approximation? 100M/300 ? > > > >Cheers, > >Jimmy > > > >""Jimmy"" wrote in message > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > >>If i have to design network for 3 storey on a building. There are around > >>200-300 workstations in 2 storey each. Is it advisable to use Ethernet to > >>link them up. As for the other storey it is for admin purpose. The > >> > >distance > > > >>is around 150m between the further storey. However it is possible to put a > >>switch/router at the middle for interconnect. > >> > >>Cheers, > >>Jimmy > -- > > Larry Letterman > Network Engineer > Cisco Systems Inc. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54044&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: LAN Design [7:54023]
Depends what your traffic profile is like, and your network environment. Remember that 300 users is probably getting up there as far as one broadcast domain is concerned. What do the users do? Just a little email and office documents, or do they manipulate large graphics files etc? Tons of things to think about This is a good book worth obtaining: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1578700698/ref=sr_aps_books_1_1 /202-2253176-9790258 Symon -Original Message- From: Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 25 September 2002 10:17 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: LAN Design [7:54023] hmm...Let don't talk about product. Just for a general view. Will a normal 100Mbps switch able to support 300 user? Is it realistic in real life application? ""Larry Letterman"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > which platform are you going to use for 300 users... > 6500 ? > 4006 ? > or multiple stackables ? > > Jimmy wrote: > > >Let say if i use a 100Mbps switch for 300 user for each floor. Will > >it be very slow? How do i really calculate the BW for each user. > >Doing an approximation? 100M/300 ? > > > >Cheers, > >Jimmy > > > >""Jimmy"" wrote in message > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > >>If i have to design network for 3 storey on a building. There are > >>around 200-300 workstations in 2 storey each. Is it advisable to use > >>Ethernet to > >>link them up. As for the other storey it is for admin purpose. The > >> > >distance > > > >>is around 150m between the further storey. However it is possible to > >>put a > >>switch/router at the middle for interconnect. > >> > >>Cheers, > >>Jimmy > -- > > Larry Letterman > Network Engineer > Cisco Systems Inc. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54046&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LAN Design [7:54023]
as a rule of thumb 10mbps ethernet to the user end station is fine for typical user applications in businesses where the network plant is switched - exchange, file sharing, etc. servers on 100mbps. i'm told that more data intensive applications may require 100mbps ethernet to the desktop, but i haven't run into any yet. that said, before making any design decisions first understand the nature of the applications and the kind of traffic they generate. then apply to your proposed physical layout. it is similar to the primary rule of woodworking; measure twice, cut once. thanks. - Original Message - From: "Jimmy" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 5:17 AM Subject: Re: LAN Design [7:54023] > hmm...Let don't talk about product. Just for a general view. Will a normal > 100Mbps switch able to support 300 user? Is it realistic in real life > application? > > ""Larry Letterman"" wrote in message > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > which platform are you going to use for 300 users... > > 6500 ? > > 4006 ? > > or multiple stackables ? > > > > Jimmy wrote: > > > > >Let say if i use a 100Mbps switch for 300 user for each floor. Will it be > > >very slow? How do i really calculate the BW for each user. Doing an > > >approximation? 100M/300 ? > > > > > >Cheers, > > >Jimmy > > > > > >""Jimmy"" wrote in message > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > > > >>If i have to design network for 3 storey on a building. There are around > > >>200-300 workstations in 2 storey each. Is it advisable to use Ethernet > to > > >>link them up. As for the other storey it is for admin purpose. The > > >> > > >distance > > > > > >>is around 150m between the further storey. However it is possible to put > a > > >>switch/router at the middle for interconnect. > > >> > > >>Cheers, > > >>Jimmy > > -- > > > > Larry Letterman > > Network Engineer > > Cisco Systems Inc. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54048&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: LAN Design [7:54023]
Allen, I agree with you completed, I will say that 99.99% of the time 10mbps for end stations is fine, if you have some users that may need more than 10mbps then you need to really study and fully understand the type of traffic is being generated my these users and then you may have to take a different approach. Juan Blanco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Garrett Allen Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 6:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: LAN Design [7:54023] as a rule of thumb 10mbps ethernet to the user end station is fine for typical user applications in businesses where the network plant is switched - exchange, file sharing, etc. servers on 100mbps. i'm told that more data intensive applications may require 100mbps ethernet to the desktop, but i haven't run into any yet. that said, before making any design decisions first understand the nature of the applications and the kind of traffic they generate. then apply to your proposed physical layout. it is similar to the primary rule of woodworking; measure twice, cut once. thanks. - Original Message - From: "Jimmy" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 5:17 AM Subject: Re: LAN Design [7:54023] > hmm...Let don't talk about product. Just for a general view. Will a normal > 100Mbps switch able to support 300 user? Is it realistic in real life > application? > > ""Larry Letterman"" wrote in message > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > which platform are you going to use for 300 users... > > 6500 ? > > 4006 ? > > or multiple stackables ? > > > > Jimmy wrote: > > > > >Let say if i use a 100Mbps switch for 300 user for each floor. Will it be > > >very slow? How do i really calculate the BW for each user. Doing an > > >approximation? 100M/300 ? > > > > > >Cheers, > > >Jimmy > > > > > >""Jimmy"" wrote in message > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > > > >>If i have to design network for 3 storey on a building. There are around > > >>200-300 workstations in 2 storey each. Is it advisable to use Ethernet > to > > >>link them up. As for the other storey it is for admin purpose. The > > >> > > >distance > > > > > >>is around 150m between the further storey. However it is possible to put > a > > >>switch/router at the middle for interconnect. > > >> > > >>Cheers, > > >>Jimmy > > -- > > > > Larry Letterman > > Network Engineer > > Cisco Systems Inc. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54052&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LAN Design [7:54023]
Always allow room for growth, I would implement Core gigabit switch that interefaces with at least 3 other switches. Cheers, Joe ""Jimmy"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > If i have to design network for 3 storey on a building. There are around > 200-300 workstations in 2 storey each. Is it advisable to use Ethernet to > link them up. As for the other storey it is for admin purpose. The distance > is around 150m between the further storey. However it is possible to put a > switch/router at the middle for interconnect. > > Cheers, > Jimmy Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54054&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LAN Design [7:54023]
The product makes a big difference. Are you planning to have one switch with 300 ports or 30 switches with 12 ports? Are you planning to use VLANs? If so will there be more than 64? The traffic pattern makes a huge difference as does the network design. If you're using 30 switches daisy-chained with all the servers and Internet connection at one end, I'd say you're looking for either job security or a quick termination. If your design if for a large chassis switch like a 6500, you probably won't have a problem -- unless all your client machines want to load applications from a single server connected at 100Mbps. What is your *real life* application? My network has several thousand users over several hundred switches with mostly 100Mbps uplinks between switches. Life is fine until someone runs an IRC bot or multiple people start Kazaa/Morpheus/Gnutella/etc. Then we shut off their port. :-) We even manage to run multicast audio and video. Access switches include models 1900, 2900XL, 3500XL, 4006, 5005, 5505 and 5513. The core is 3-5513 with dual everything (well, the important stuff). One other question... How much money do you want to spend? Ken >>> "Jimmy" 09/25/02 02:17AM >>> hmm...Let don't talk about product. Just for a general view. Will a normal 100Mbps switch able to support 300 user? Is it realistic in real life application? ""Larry Letterman"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > which platform are you going to use for 300 users... > 6500 ? > 4006 ? > or multiple stackables ? > > Jimmy wrote: > > >Let say if i use a 100Mbps switch for 300 user for each floor. Will it be > >very slow? How do i really calculate the BW for each user. Doing an > >approximation? 100M/300 ? > > > >Cheers, > >Jimmy > > > >""Jimmy"" wrote in message > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > >>If i have to design network for 3 storey on a building. There are around > >>200-300 workstations in 2 storey each. Is it advisable to use Ethernet to > >>link them up. As for the other storey it is for admin purpose. The distance > >>is around 150m between the further storey. However it is possible to put a > >>switch/router at the middle for interconnect. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54069&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LAN Design [7:54023]
""Jimmy"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > hmm...Let don't talk about product. Just for a general view. Will a normal > 100Mbps switch able to support 300 user? Is it realistic in real life > application? CL: good idea. so let's start with the fundamentals as I understand them. assume cat 5 or cat 5e to all stations. assume three floors. question: number of users per floor? question: are you pulling new cable or using existing? question: all three floors have wiring to a single wiring closet on on floor ( main computer room ) or do you have a main computer room and a data clost on each floor? if there is a closet on each floor, how are they connected now? are you willing to pull fiber between the floors in this case? CL: this last question can help greatly in sorting out equipment possibilities question: are there any general security considerations that vlans would address? CL: I ask this one because people start throwing vlans at problems without thinking. For example, if you have only one or two servers that everyone has to authenticate against and use, then vlans don't necessarily do anything for you. some folks have correctly pointed out that 300 users is at the very high end of rule of thumb broadcast domain limits. question: is budget a concern? if one solution comes in at 150,000 will your management have apoplexy? CL:my employer has lots of idle sales engineers who would just love to talk to you, not to mention sell you something :-> > > ""Larry Letterman"" wrote in message > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > which platform are you going to use for 300 users... > > 6500 ? > > 4006 ? > > or multiple stackables ? > > > > Jimmy wrote: > > > > >Let say if i use a 100Mbps switch for 300 user for each floor. Will it be > > >very slow? How do i really calculate the BW for each user. Doing an > > >approximation? 100M/300 ? > > > > > >Cheers, > > >Jimmy > > > > > >""Jimmy"" wrote in message > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > > > >>If i have to design network for 3 storey on a building. There are around > > >>200-300 workstations in 2 storey each. Is it advisable to use Ethernet > to > > >>link them up. As for the other storey it is for admin purpose. The > > >> > > >distance > > > > > >>is around 150m between the further storey. However it is possible to put > a > > >>switch/router at the middle for interconnect. > > >> > > >>Cheers, > > >>Jimmy > > -- > > > > Larry Letterman > > Network Engineer > > Cisco Systems Inc. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54073&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LAN Design [7:54023]
""Tim Medley"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > If you are serious about designing this netwoek and designing ir correctly > for scalability and functionality, pick up a good network design book. > > My reccomendation is Top Down Network Design, by Priscilla Openheimer. U > have two copies one at home and one at the office, I refer to this tome > quite often. Great book, excellent methodology. CL: a good book indeed. the irony here is that oftentimes, particularly in smaller environments, the person who has to make these decisions is under a severe time constraint, and does not have time to attain the background that all of us study. back in the days when I was a network manager, I never had time to learn this stuff. my own road to correct network thinking began after I was downsized. :-> > > > > Tim Medley, CCNP+Voice, CCDP, CWNA > Sr. Network Architect > VoIP Group > iReadyWorld > > > -Original Message- > From: Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 11:01 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: LAN Design [7:54023] > > > If i have to design network for 3 storey on a building. There are around > 200-300 workstations in 2 storey each. Is it advisable to use Ethernet to > link them up. As for the other storey it is for admin purpose. The distance > is around 150m between the further storey. However it is possible to put a > switch/router at the middle for interconnect. > > Cheers, > Jimmy Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54078&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LAN Design [7:54023]
Chuck's Long Road wrote: >CL:my employer has lots of idle sales engineers who would just love to talk >to you, not to mention sell you something :-> > So does Mine :) :Larry Letterman Cisco... Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54080&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LAN Design [7:54023]
Thank-you very much for the recommendations for Top-Down Network Design. I probably don't express my gratitude often enough to the many people who bought the book. I suspect that we may be helping a Cisco Networking Academy student with homework. ;-) This sounds a lot like the exercises they do. That program has a tendency to teach a bottom-up design methodology that focuses on physcial size and technology/media selection, before gaining an understanding for: business and "political" concerns budget user expectations for reliability, response time, etc. application requirements for bandwidth, delay, etc. appliation behavior in terms of broadcasts, traffic patterns, etc. You all did a good job of pointing out the importantance of these concepts, so I will say no more. Priscilla Chuck's Long Road wrote: > > ""Tim Medley"" wrote in message > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > If you are serious about designing this netwoek and designing > ir correctly > > for scalability and functionality, pick up a good network > design book. > > > > My reccomendation is Top Down Network Design, by Priscilla > Openheimer. U > > have two copies one at home and one at the office, I refer to > this tome > > quite often. Great book, excellent methodology. > > CL: a good book indeed. the irony here is that oftentimes, > particularly in > smaller environments, the person who has to make these > decisions is under a > severe time constraint, and does not have time to attain the > background that > all of us study. back in the days when I was a network manager, > I never had > time to learn this stuff. my own road to correct network > thinking began > after I was downsized. :-> > > > > > > > > > Tim Medley, CCNP+Voice, CCDP, CWNA > > Sr. Network Architect > > VoIP Group > > iReadyWorld > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 11:01 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: LAN Design [7:54023] > > > > > > If i have to design network for 3 storey on a building. There > are around > > 200-300 workstations in 2 storey each. Is it advisable to use > Ethernet to > > link them up. As for the other storey it is for admin > purpose. The > distance > > is around 150m between the further storey. However it is > possible to put a > > switch/router at the middle for interconnect. > > > > Cheers, > > Jimmy > > Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54093&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LAN Design [7:54023]
I'm hurt to say the least. I touch on all of those, albeit briefly. After all, I'm not teaching CCDA/DP courses. Prof. Tom Lisa, CCAI Community College of Southern Nevada Cisco ATC/Regional Networking Academy Priscilla Oppenheimer wrote: > Thank-you very much for the recommendations for Top-Down Network Design. I > probably don't express my gratitude often enough to the many people who > bought the book. > > I suspect that we may be helping a Cisco Networking Academy student with > homework. ;-) This sounds a lot like the exercises they do. That program has > a tendency to teach a bottom-up design methodology that focuses on physcial > size and technology/media selection, before gaining an understanding for: > > business and "political" concerns > budget > user expectations for reliability, response time, etc. > application requirements for bandwidth, delay, etc. > appliation behavior in terms of broadcasts, traffic patterns, etc. > > You all did a good job of pointing out the importantance of these concepts, > so I will say no more. > > Priscilla > > > > Chuck's Long Road wrote: > > > > ""Tim Medley"" wrote in message > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > If you are serious about designing this netwoek and designing > > ir correctly > > > for scalability and functionality, pick up a good network > > design book. > > > > > > My reccomendation is Top Down Network Design, by Priscilla > > Openheimer. U > > > have two copies one at home and one at the office, I refer to > > this tome > > > quite often. Great book, excellent methodology. > > > > CL: a good book indeed. the irony here is that oftentimes, > > particularly in > > smaller environments, the person who has to make these > > decisions is under a > > severe time constraint, and does not have time to attain the > > background that > > all of us study. back in the days when I was a network manager, > > I never had > > time to learn this stuff. my own road to correct network > > thinking began > > after I was downsized. :-> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim Medley, CCNP+Voice, CCDP, CWNA > > > Sr. Network Architect > > > VoIP Group > > > iReadyWorld > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 11:01 PM > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: LAN Design [7:54023] > > > > > > > > > If i have to design network for 3 storey on a building. There > > are around > > > 200-300 workstations in 2 storey each. Is it advisable to use > > Ethernet to > > > link them up. As for the other storey it is for admin > > purpose. The > > distance > > > is around 150m between the further storey. However it is > > possible to put a > > > switch/router at the middle for interconnect. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Jimmy Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54140&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: LAN Design [7:54023]
LOL Tim Medley, CCNP+Voice, CCDP, CWNA Sr. Network Architect VoIP Group iReadyWorld -Original Message- From: Larry Letterman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 12:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: LAN Design [7:54023] Chuck's Long Road wrote: >CL:my employer has lots of idle sales engineers who would just love to talk >to you, not to mention sell you something :-> > So does Mine :) :Larry Letterman Cisco... Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54148&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: LAN Design [7:54023]
Hey Priscilla, Do you have any new books planned? tm Tim Medley, CCNP+Voice, CCDP, CWNA Sr. Network Architect VoIP Group iReadyWorld -Original Message- From: Priscilla Oppenheimer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 3:07 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: LAN Design [7:54023] Thank-you very much for the recommendations for Top-Down Network Design. I probably don't express my gratitude often enough to the many people who bought the book. I suspect that we may be helping a Cisco Networking Academy student with homework. ;-) This sounds a lot like the exercises they do. That program has a tendency to teach a bottom-up design methodology that focuses on physcial size and technology/media selection, before gaining an understanding for: business and "political" concerns budget user expectations for reliability, response time, etc. application requirements for bandwidth, delay, etc. appliation behavior in terms of broadcasts, traffic patterns, etc. You all did a good job of pointing out the importantance of these concepts, so I will say no more. Priscilla Chuck's Long Road wrote: > > ""Tim Medley"" wrote in message > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > If you are serious about designing this netwoek and designing > ir correctly > > for scalability and functionality, pick up a good network > design book. > > > > My reccomendation is Top Down Network Design, by Priscilla > Openheimer. U > > have two copies one at home and one at the office, I refer to > this tome > > quite often. Great book, excellent methodology. > > CL: a good book indeed. the irony here is that oftentimes, > particularly in > smaller environments, the person who has to make these > decisions is under a > severe time constraint, and does not have time to attain the > background that > all of us study. back in the days when I was a network manager, > I never had > time to learn this stuff. my own road to correct network > thinking began > after I was downsized. :-> > > > > > > > > > Tim Medley, CCNP+Voice, CCDP, CWNA > > Sr. Network Architect > > VoIP Group > > iReadyWorld > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 11:01 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: LAN Design [7:54023] > > > > > > If i have to design network for 3 storey on a building. There > are around > > 200-300 workstations in 2 storey each. Is it advisable to use > Ethernet to > > link them up. As for the other storey it is for admin > purpose. The > distance > > is around 150m between the further storey. However it is > possible to put a > > switch/router at the middle for interconnect. > > > > Cheers, > > Jimmy Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54152&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LAN Design [7:54023]
""Tim Medley"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Hey Priscilla, > > Do you have any new books planned? CL: Where you been, sir? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0471210137/qid=1032997494/sr=1 -2/ref=sr_1_2/102-6211460-1560114?v=glance ( definitely watch the wrap ) > > tm > > > > Tim Medley, CCNP+Voice, CCDP, CWNA > Sr. Network Architect > VoIP Group > iReadyWorld > > > > > -Original Message- > From: Priscilla Oppenheimer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 3:07 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: LAN Design [7:54023] > > > Thank-you very much for the recommendations for Top-Down Network Design. I > probably don't express my gratitude often enough to the many people who > bought the book. > > I suspect that we may be helping a Cisco Networking Academy student with > homework. ;-) This sounds a lot like the exercises they do. That program has > a tendency to teach a bottom-up design methodology that focuses on physcial > size and technology/media selection, before gaining an understanding for: > > business and "political" concerns > budget > user expectations for reliability, response time, etc. > application requirements for bandwidth, delay, etc. > appliation behavior in terms of broadcasts, traffic patterns, etc. > > You all did a good job of pointing out the importantance of these concepts, > so I will say no more. > > Priscilla > > > > Chuck's Long Road wrote: > > > > ""Tim Medley"" wrote in message > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > If you are serious about designing this netwoek and designing > > ir correctly > > > for scalability and functionality, pick up a good network > > design book. > > > > > > My reccomendation is Top Down Network Design, by Priscilla > > Openheimer. U > > > have two copies one at home and one at the office, I refer to > > this tome > > > quite often. Great book, excellent methodology. > > > > CL: a good book indeed. the irony here is that oftentimes, > > particularly in > > smaller environments, the person who has to make these > > decisions is under a > > severe time constraint, and does not have time to attain the > > background that > > all of us study. back in the days when I was a network manager, > > I never had > > time to learn this stuff. my own road to correct network > > thinking began > > after I was downsized. :-> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim Medley, CCNP+Voice, CCDP, CWNA > > > Sr. Network Architect > > > VoIP Group > > > iReadyWorld > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 11:01 PM > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: LAN Design [7:54023] > > > > > > > > > If i have to design network for 3 storey on a building. There > > are around > > > 200-300 workstations in 2 storey each. Is it advisable to use > > Ethernet to > > > link them up. As for the other storey it is for admin > > purpose. The > > distance > > > is around 150m between the further storey. However it is > > possible to put a > > > switch/router at the middle for interconnect. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Jimmy Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54154&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LAN Design [7:54023]
First of all, thank for the wonderful response. So from what you all have said. If the user is for normal purpose like running some application on servers and access the Internet. Will a 100Mbps be sufficient for 300 users. As for the users, they will be splitted into several group of around 15-20 each.Or a 10Mbps switch will be more than sufficient for it. Can i calculate the BW for each user in this manner: 100M / 300 (no of user) Assuming full usage. Let say i have around 3 storey of about 300 users each, The backbone switch should be 10x the BW of each floor rite? Cheers, Jimmy Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54159&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: LAN Design [7:54023]
I may be able to provide the network design that the members of groupstudy helped with (they just about designed it) Will be glad to pass it on if you wish. John -Original Message- From: Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 26 September 2002 11:22 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: LAN Design [7:54023] First of all, thank for the wonderful response. So from what you all have said. If the user is for normal purpose like running some application on servers and access the Internet. Will a 100Mbps be sufficient for 300 users. As for the users, they will be splitted into several group of around 15-20 each.Or a 10Mbps switch will be more than sufficient for it. Can i calculate the BW for each user in this manner: 100M / 300 (no of user) Assuming full usage. Let say i have around 3 storey of about 300 users each, The backbone switch should be 10x the BW of each floor rite? Cheers, Jimmy ** visit http://www.solution6.com UK Customers - http://www.solution6.co.uk * This email message (and attachments) may contain information that is confidential to Solution 6. If you are not the intended recipient you cannot use, distribute or copy the message or attachments. In such a case, please notify the sender by return email immediately and erase all copies of the message and attachments. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message and attachments that do not relate to the official business of Solution 6 are neither given nor endorsed by it. * Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54160&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LAN Design [7:54023]
Tom Lisa wrote: > > I'm hurt to say the least. I touch on all of those, albeit > briefly. After all, I'm not > teaching CCDA/DP courses. > > Prof. Tom Lisa, CCAI > Community College of Southern Nevada > Cisco ATC/Regional Networking Academy I'm sure experienced, knowledgable professors such as yourself do teach design in a well-rounded fashion. ;-) It's more the Academy course materials I was concerned about. They teach design from a cabling, hardware, product viewpoint, which does have some value, by the way. As Chuck mentioned, you have to think about the positioning of wiring closets, the MDF, etc. Cisco Networking Academy harps on that a lot, from what I remember. Priscilla > > Priscilla Oppenheimer wrote: > > > Thank-you very much for the recommendations for Top-Down > Network Design. I > > probably don't express my gratitude often enough to the many > people who > > bought the book. > > > > I suspect that we may be helping a Cisco Networking Academy > student with > > homework. ;-) This sounds a lot like the exercises they do. > That program has > > a tendency to teach a bottom-up design methodology that > focuses on physcial > > size and technology/media selection, before gaining an > understanding for: > > > > business and "political" concerns > > budget > > user expectations for reliability, response time, etc. > > application requirements for bandwidth, delay, etc. > > appliation behavior in terms of broadcasts, traffic patterns, > etc. > > > > You all did a good job of pointing out the importantance of > these concepts, > > so I will say no more. > > > > Priscilla > > > > > > > > Chuck's Long Road wrote: > > > > > > ""Tim Medley"" wrote in message > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > > If you are serious about designing this netwoek and > designing > > > ir correctly > > > > for scalability and functionality, pick up a good network > > > design book. > > > > > > > > My reccomendation is Top Down Network Design, by Priscilla > > > Openheimer. U > > > > have two copies one at home and one at the office, I > refer to > > > this tome > > > > quite often. Great book, excellent methodology. > > > > > > CL: a good book indeed. the irony here is that oftentimes, > > > particularly in > > > smaller environments, the person who has to make these > > > decisions is under a > > > severe time constraint, and does not have time to attain the > > > background that > > > all of us study. back in the days when I was a network > manager, > > > I never had > > > time to learn this stuff. my own road to correct network > > > thinking began > > > after I was downsized. :-> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim Medley, CCNP+Voice, CCDP, CWNA > > > > Sr. Network Architect > > > > VoIP Group > > > > iReadyWorld > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > From: Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 11:01 PM > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Subject: LAN Design [7:54023] > > > > > > > > > > > > If i have to design network for 3 storey on a building. > There > > > are around > > > > 200-300 workstations in 2 storey each. Is it advisable to > use > > > Ethernet to > > > > link them up. As for the other storey it is for admin > > > purpose. The > > > distance > > > > is around 150m between the further storey. However it is > > > possible to put a > > > > switch/router at the middle for interconnect. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Jimmy > > Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54165&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LAN Design [7:54023]
Jimmy wrote: > > First of all, thank for the wonderful response. > > So from what you all have said. If the user is for normal > purpose like > running some application on servers and access the Internet. > Will a 100Mbps > be sufficient for 300 users. We don't have enough info about the applications or the placement of servers in the topology to give you very valuable suggestions. But, we may be able to make a few generalizations. If I get out on a limb with these generalizations, hopefully somebody will come out after me and correct my mistakes. :-) 100 Mbps is probably sufficient for 300 users using typical desktop applications and browsing typical Web sites. As someone else said, actually 10 Mbps is proably sufficient also. If you are using switches, remember that EACH switch port has 100 (or 10) Mbps, so you may have more bandwidth than you realize. The bottleneck may the switch itself. You will want to research the backplane speed of any switches you are considering. Another bottleneck will be links between switches which aggregate many traffic flows. Also, links to servers often get congested and should have more bandwidth than links to end users. As many people have mentioned, you are on the edge as far as how many devices you have in one switched network. All those devices are in the same broadcast domain. They will all hear and process each other's broadcast traffic. Some protocols and applications, including Windows networking, send a lot of broadcasts. This is especially a problem on slow, older PCs. Cisco recommends you minimize the size of a broadcast domain to a few hundred devices. The exact number depends on the protocols. I think most people limit it even more than Cisco says to, actually. A router does not forward broadcasts. Adding a router or two to the design will solve the broadcast problem. VLANs also limit the size of broadcast domains and could be a good solution. > As for the users, they will be > splitted into > several group of around 15-20 each.Or a 10Mbps switch will be > more than > sufficient for it. > > Can i calculate the BW for each user in this manner: > 100M / 300 (no of user) > Assuming full usage. Which bandwidth? The bandwidth on shared links? What traffic flows through those links? See, we can't give you specific info without more info on the topology you have planned. > > Let say i have around 3 storey of about 300 users each, 300 users on each floor? OK, so you do need some routers or routing switches in there. Or at least some VLANs to contain the spread of broadcasts. > The > backbone switch > should be 10x the BW of each floor rite? In general, you don't need to provision enough bandwidth for every device to be using all of its theoretical capacity all at the same time. That would be too expensive, for one thing. Also network traffic is bursty and the capacity isn't used all the time. And we need to know where the traffic is flowing. Some traffic may be peer-to-peer and not cross the backbones. Some will go to the servers. Some will go to the Internet, etc. There are no easy answers. I think that has become my new motto. ___ Priscilla Oppenheimer www.troubleshootingnetworks.com www.priscilla.com > > Cheers, > Jimmy > > Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54169&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LAN Design [7:54023]
No maybe your not, but when we in the real world build networks, cost, politics and budgets come into play as much if not more than the network itself... Larry Letterman Cisco Systems It-Lan Team Tom Lisa wrote: >I'm hurt to say the least. I touch on all of those, albeit briefly. After >all, I'm not >teaching CCDA/DP courses. > >Prof. Tom Lisa, CCAI >Community College of Southern Nevada >Cisco ATC/Regional Networking Academy > >Priscilla Oppenheimer wrote: > >>Thank-you very much for the recommendations for Top-Down Network Design. I >>probably don't express my gratitude often enough to the many people who >>bought the book. >> >>I suspect that we may be helping a Cisco Networking Academy student with >>homework. ;-) This sounds a lot like the exercises they do. That program >> >has > >>a tendency to teach a bottom-up design methodology that focuses on physcial >>size and technology/media selection, before gaining an understanding for: >> >>business and "political" concerns >>budget >>user expectations for reliability, response time, etc. >>application requirements for bandwidth, delay, etc. >>appliation behavior in terms of broadcasts, traffic patterns, etc. >> >>You all did a good job of pointing out the importantance of these concepts, >>so I will say no more. >> >>Priscilla >> >> >> >>Chuck's Long Road wrote: >> >>>""Tim Medley"" wrote in message >>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... >>> If you are serious about designing this netwoek and designing >>>ir correctly >>> for scalability and functionality, pick up a good network >>>design book. >>> My reccomendation is Top Down Network Design, by Priscilla >>>Openheimer. U >>> have two copies one at home and one at the office, I refer to >>>this tome >>> quite often. Great book, excellent methodology. >>>CL: a good book indeed. the irony here is that oftentimes, >>>particularly in >>>smaller environments, the person who has to make these >>>decisions is under a >>>severe time constraint, and does not have time to attain the >>>background that >>>all of us study. back in the days when I was a network manager, >>>I never had >>>time to learn this stuff. my own road to correct network >>>thinking began >>>after I was downsized. :-> >>> Tim Medley, CCNP+Voice, CCDP, CWNA Sr. Network Architect VoIP Group iReadyWorld -Original Message- From: Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 11:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: LAN Design [7:54023] If i have to design network for 3 storey on a building. There >>>are around >>> 200-300 workstations in 2 storey each. Is it advisable to use >>>Ethernet to >>> link them up. As for the other storey it is for admin >>>purpose. The >>>distance >>> is around 150m between the further storey. However it is >>>possible to put a >>> switch/router at the middle for interconnect. Cheers, Jimmy -- Larry Letterman Network Engineer Cisco Systems Inc. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54173&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LAN Design [7:54023]
""Priscilla Oppenheimer"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Jimmy wrote: snip for breveity > 300 users on each floor? OK, so you do need some routers or routing switches > in there. Or at least some VLANs to contain the spread of broadcasts. > > > The > > backbone switch > > should be 10x the BW of each floor rite? > > In general, you don't need to provision enough bandwidth for every device to > be using all of its theoretical capacity all at the same time. That would be > too expensive, for one thing. Also network traffic is bursty and the > capacity isn't used all the time. And we need to know where the traffic is > flowing. Some traffic may be peer-to-peer and not cross the backbones. Some > will go to the servers. Some will go to the Internet, etc. > > There are no easy answers. I think that has become my new motto. CL: Au contraire, mon ami, there are always easy answers. And in these modern times, those easy answers are often good ones. CL: Cisco's easy answer is to put a 6509 on each floor. Maybe using the MSFC2 sup cards and the inline power RJ45 cards in case the client installs AVVID a year or two down the line. Is this a bad solution? No. CL: As an alternative, throw a 3550-12G and a few 3550-48's in each closet. gig links from the 48's to the 12G, and maybe a couple of gig ports in an etherchannel to the main closet. Is this a bad solution? No. In fact, in many ways, this is a better one because the 3550's are wire speed non blocking, while the 6509 is not. Not to mention the significantly lower cost. CL: I am not denegrating good practice, or thoughtful response. But I am suggesting that given the capabilities of current equipment, one can get away with more than was possible in the good old days of hubs. In networking as well as in sports, speed makes up for a lot of other shortcomings. Particularly 100 megabit full duplex to the desktop, and multi-gig ehterchannel uplinks. > > ___ > > Priscilla Oppenheimer > www.troubleshootingnetworks.com > www.priscilla.com > > > > > > Cheers, > > Jimmy Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54176&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LAN Design [7:54023]
Jimmy, The access switch(users) should not be oversubscribed by more than 3 to 1in my opinion.. the total user bandwidth if you have a 12 port switch at 100 mb per port is 1.2 gb...the switch needs to be able to handle at least 400 mb of thruput also the core switches should be faster than the access switches below it if the core switch is 100mb, then the user access switches should 10 mb switches with a 100mb uplink to the core Jimmy wrote: >First of all, thank for the wonderful response. > >So from what you all have said. If the user is for normal purpose like >running some application on servers and access the Internet. Will a 100Mbps >be sufficient for 300 users. As for the users, they will be splitted into >several group of around 15-20 each.Or a 10Mbps switch will be more than >sufficient for it. > >Can i calculate the BW for each user in this manner: >100M / 300 (no of user) >Assuming full usage. > >Let say i have around 3 storey of about 300 users each, The backbone switch >should be 10x the BW of each floor rite? > >Cheers, >Jimmy -- Larry Letterman Network Engineer Cisco Systems Inc. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54177&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LAN Design [7:54023]
""Larry Letterman"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Jimmy, > > The access switch(users) should not be oversubscribed by more than 3 to > 1in my opinion.. > the total user bandwidth if you have a 12 port switch at 100 mb per port > is 1.2 gb...the switch needs to be able to > handle at least 400 mb of thruput CL: I'm always curious about numbers. Long evenings in night school taking management courses. So if you don't mind, what is the rationale for this ratio? CL: just looking for a bit more education > > also the core switches should be faster than the access switches below > it > > if the core switch is 100mb, then the user access switches should 10 mb > switches with a 100mb > uplink to the core > > Jimmy wrote: > > >First of all, thank for the wonderful response. > > > >So from what you all have said. If the user is for normal purpose like > >running some application on servers and access the Internet. Will a 100Mbps > >be sufficient for 300 users. As for the users, they will be splitted into > >several group of around 15-20 each.Or a 10Mbps switch will be more than > >sufficient for it. > > > >Can i calculate the BW for each user in this manner: > >100M / 300 (no of user) > >Assuming full usage. > > > >Let say i have around 3 storey of about 300 users each, The backbone switch > >should be 10x the BW of each floor rite? > > > >Cheers, > >Jimmy > -- > > Larry Letterman > Network Engineer > Cisco Systems Inc. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54181&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LAN Design [7:54023]
Chuck, Are you in the US? It mus be deep into the night, though I do not know the time zones there very well (2.15 pm in Japan. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54183&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LAN Design [7:54023]
Yes, Sem1 does concentrate on Layer 1. We teach the concepts from the bottom up. But, as we all know, Top Down Network Design is best. Didn't someone write a book on it? All good design starts by getting Layer 8 issues resolved first. Prof. Tom Lisa, CCAI Community College of Southern Nevada Cisco ATC/Regional Networking Academy Priscilla Oppenheimer wrote: Tom Lisa wrote: > > I'm hurt to say the least. I touch on all of those, albeit > briefly. After all, I'm not > teaching CCDA/DP courses. > > Prof. Tom Lisa, CCAI > Community College of Southern Nevada > Cisco ATC/Regional Networking Academy I'm sure experienced, knowledgable professors such as yourself do teach design in a well-rounded fashion. ;-) It's more the Academy course materials I was concerned about. They teach design from a cabling, hardware, product viewpoint, which does have some value, by the way. As Chuck mentioned, you have to think about the positioning of wiring closets, the MDF, etc. Cisco Networking Academy harps on that a lot, from what I remember. Priscilla > > Priscilla Oppenheimer wrote: > > > Thank-you very much for the recommendations for Top-Down > Network Design. I > > probably don't express my gratitude often enough to the many > people who > > bought the book. > > > > I suspect that we may be helping a Cisco Networking Academy > student with > > homework. ;-) This sounds a lot like the exercises they do. > That program has > > a tendency to teach a bottom-up design methodology that > focuses on physcial > > size and technology/media selection, before gaining an > understanding for: > > > > business and "political" concerns > > budget > > user expectations for reliability, response time, etc. > > application requirements for bandwidth, delay, etc. > > appliation behavior in terms of broadcasts, traffic patterns, > etc. > > > > You all did a good job of pointing out the importantance of > these concepts, > > so I will say no more. > > > > Priscilla > > > > > > > > Chuck's Long Road wrote: > > > > > > ""Tim Medley"" wrote in message > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > > If you are serious about designing this netwoek and > designing > > > ir correctly > > > > for scalability and functionality, pick up a good network > > > design book. > > > > > > > > My reccomendation is Top Down Network Design, by Priscilla > > > Openheimer. U > > > > have two copies one at home and one at the office, I > refer to > > > this tome > > > > quite often. Great book, excellent methodology. > > > > > > CL: a good book indeed. the irony here is that oftentimes, > > > particularly in > > > smaller environments, the person who has to make these > > > decisions is under a > > > severe time constraint, and does not have time to attain the > > > background that > > > all of us study. back in the days when I was a network > manager, > > > I never had > > > time to learn this stuff. my own road to correct network > > > thinking began > > > after I was downsized. :-> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim Medley, CCNP+Voice, CCDP, CWNA > > > > Sr. Network Architect > > > > VoIP Group > > > > iReadyWorld > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > From: Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 11:01 PM > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Subject: LAN Design [7:54023] > > > > > > > > > > > > If i have to design network for 3 storey on a building. > There > > > are around > > > > 200-300 workstations in 2 storey each. Is it advisable to > use > > > Ethernet to > > > > link them up. As for the other storey it is for admin > > > purpose. The > > > distance > > > > is around 150m between the further storey. However it is > > > possible to put a > > > > switch/router at the middle for interconnect. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Jimmy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54186&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LAN Design [7:54023]
depends on how you define the "uber" layers. here's mine: layer 8 - religion (in the sense of big/little endian) layer 9 - politics layer 10 - economics. have been bitten by each at one point or another, so they are relevant but contextual. thanks. - Original Message - From: "Tom Lisa" To: Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:45 AM Subject: Re: LAN Design [7:54023] > Yes, Sem1 does concentrate on Layer 1. We teach the concepts from the > bottom up. But, as we all know, Top Down Network Design is best. Didn't > someone write a book on it? All good design starts by getting Layer 8 > issues resolved first. > > Prof. Tom Lisa, CCAI > Community College of Southern Nevada > Cisco ATC/Regional Networking Academy > > Priscilla Oppenheimer wrote: > > Tom Lisa wrote: > > > > I'm hurt to say the least. I touch on all of those, albeit > > briefly. After all, I'm not > > teaching CCDA/DP courses. > > > > Prof. Tom Lisa, CCAI > > Community College of Southern Nevada > > Cisco ATC/Regional Networking Academy > > I'm sure experienced, knowledgable professors such as yourself do > teach > design in a well-rounded fashion. ;-) It's more the Academy course > materials > I was concerned about. They teach design from a cabling, hardware, > product > viewpoint, which does have some value, by the way. As Chuck > mentioned, you > have to think about the positioning of wiring closets, the MDF, etc. > Cisco > Networking Academy harps on that a lot, from what I remember. > > Priscilla > > > > > Priscilla Oppenheimer wrote: > > > > > Thank-you very much for the recommendations for Top-Down > > Network Design. I > > > probably don't express my gratitude often enough to the many > > people who > > > bought the book. > > > > > > I suspect that we may be helping a Cisco Networking Academy > > student with > > > homework. ;-) This sounds a lot like the exercises they do. > > That program has > > > a tendency to teach a bottom-up design methodology that > > focuses on physcial > > > size and technology/media selection, before gaining an > > understanding for: > > > > > > business and "political" concerns > > > budget > > > user expectations for reliability, response time, etc. > > > application requirements for bandwidth, delay, etc. > > > appliation behavior in terms of broadcasts, traffic patterns, > > etc. > > > > > > You all did a good job of pointing out the importantance of > > these concepts, > > > so I will say no more. > > > > > > Priscilla > > > > > > > > > > > > Chuck's Long Road wrote: > > > > > > > > ""Tim Medley"" wrote in message > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > > > If you are serious about designing this netwoek and > > designing > > > > ir correctly > > > > > for scalability and functionality, pick up a good network > > > > design book. > > > > > > > > > > My reccomendation is Top Down Network Design, by Priscilla > > > > Openheimer. U > > > > > have two copies one at home and one at the office, I > > refer to > > > > this tome > > > > > quite often. Great book, excellent methodology. > > > > > > > > CL: a good book indeed. the irony here is that oftentimes, > > > > particularly in > > > > smaller environments, the person who has to make these > > > > decisions is under a > > > > severe time constraint, and does not have time to attain the > > > > background that > > > > all of us study. back in the days when I was a network > > manager, > > > > I never had > > > > time to learn this stuff. my own road to correct network > > > > thinking began > > > > after I was downsized. :-> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim Medley, CCNP+Voice, CCDP, CWNA > > > > > Sr. Network Architect > > > > > VoIP Group > > > > > iReadyWorld > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > &
Re: LAN Design [7:54023]
Chuck, Originally I got the oversubscribe numbers from extreme a few years ago... Now days, with fast switches, it makes no real diference... the rationale is that all ports wont be active at the same timeso you can oversubscribe the access switches by 3 or 4 to 1 Chuck's Long Road wrote: >""Larry Letterman"" wrote in message >[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > >>Jimmy, >> >>The access switch(users) should not be oversubscribed by more than 3 to >>1in my opinion.. >>the total user bandwidth if you have a 12 port switch at 100 mb per port >>is 1.2 gb...the switch needs to be able to >>handle at least 400 mb of thruput >> > > >CL: I'm always curious about numbers. Long evenings in night school taking >management courses. So if you don't mind, what is the rationale for this >ratio? > >CL: just looking for a bit more education > > > >>also the core switches should be faster than the access switches below >>it >> >>if the core switch is 100mb, then the user access switches should 10 mb >>switches with a 100mb >>uplink to the core >> >>Jimmy wrote: >> >>>First of all, thank for the wonderful response. >>> >>>So from what you all have said. If the user is for normal purpose like >>>running some application on servers and access the Internet. Will a >>> >100Mbps > >>>be sufficient for 300 users. As for the users, they will be splitted into >>>several group of around 15-20 each.Or a 10Mbps switch will be more than >>>sufficient for it. >>> >>>Can i calculate the BW for each user in this manner: >>>100M / 300 (no of user) >>>Assuming full usage. >>> >>>Let say i have around 3 storey of about 300 users each, The backbone >>> >switch > >>>should be 10x the BW of each floor rite? >>> >>>Cheers, >>>Jimmy >>> >>-- >> >>Larry Letterman >>Network Engineer >>Cisco Systems Inc. -- Larry Letterman Network Engineer Cisco Systems Inc. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54188&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LAN Design [7:54023]
""Larry Letterman"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Chuck, > > Originally I got the oversubscribe numbers from extreme a few years ago... > Now days, with fast switches, it makes no real diference... CL: numbers are always interesting. especially when compared to what the various vendors provide physically. CL: for example, all the major vendors ( Cisco and the "pack" ) sell 48 port boxes with two gig ports, presumably for uplink. Using that "4 to 1" number, all those boxes are at the limit. CL: OTOH, I sometimes think all this "backplane" discussion is overblown. In high end server farms it "might" be likely that all your devices are transmitting AND receiving at close to full wire speed simultaneously. In the user community, however, I would highly doubt that you could find any workgroup in which ALL ( or any significant proportion ) devices were sending and receiving at wire speed > > the rationale is that all ports wont be active at the same timeso > you can > oversubscribe the access switches by 3 or 4 to 1 > > Chuck's Long Road wrote: > > >""Larry Letterman"" wrote in message > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > >>Jimmy, > >> > >>The access switch(users) should not be oversubscribed by more than 3 to > >>1in my opinion.. > >>the total user bandwidth if you have a 12 port switch at 100 mb per port > >>is 1.2 gb...the switch needs to be able to > >>handle at least 400 mb of thruput > >> > > > > > >CL: I'm always curious about numbers. Long evenings in night school taking > >management courses. So if you don't mind, what is the rationale for this > >ratio? > > > >CL: just looking for a bit more education > > > > > > > >>also the core switches should be faster than the access switches below > >>it > >> > >>if the core switch is 100mb, then the user access switches should 10 mb > >>switches with a 100mb > >>uplink to the core > >> > >>Jimmy wrote: > >> > >>>First of all, thank for the wonderful response. > >>> > >>>So from what you all have said. If the user is for normal purpose like > >>>running some application on servers and access the Internet. Will a > >>> > >100Mbps > > > >>>be sufficient for 300 users. As for the users, they will be splitted into > >>>several group of around 15-20 each.Or a 10Mbps switch will be more than > >>>sufficient for it. > >>> > >>>Can i calculate the BW for each user in this manner: > >>>100M / 300 (no of user) > >>>Assuming full usage. > >>> > >>>Let say i have around 3 storey of about 300 users each, The backbone > >>> > >switch > > > >>>should be 10x the BW of each floor rite? > >>> > >>>Cheers, > >>>Jimmy > >>> > >>-- > >> > >>Larry Letterman > >>Network Engineer > >>Cisco Systems Inc. > -- > > Larry Letterman > Network Engineer > Cisco Systems Inc. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54245&t=54023 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
