Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-07-01 Thread Brian Fox
I'm -0 on the 2.0.11 release.

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 11:10 PM, Brett Porterbr...@apache.org wrote:

 On 01/07/2009, at 6:01 AM, Brian Fox wrote:

 On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 11:58 AM, Brett Porterbr...@apache.org wrote:


 On 01/07/2009, at 1:47 AM, nicolas de loof wrote:

 I'm also fine with this, just would like to avoid some EOL tag on 2.0
 that
 may be considered as lack of support by some corporate users using (old)
 maven releases

 Sure, we can use a different name. All I meant EOL to mean here was that
 we
 don't plan to make any more releases (unless something is found to be
 really, horribly, wrong). EOD (end of development) is probably more
 appropriate.


 Exactly, and IMO, we're at that point today with 2.0.10

 Ok, but are you leaning towards a -0 or a -1 on a 2.0.11 release?

 I'm happy to burn the small amount of my time on it and clean up the release
 process along the way (given the issues we had with 2.2.0).

 I'm not looking to add any more changes, just release the 37 already merged
 in there so we have a proper end point. It should be a short cycle since
 it's stuff already in 2.1.0+, but there were a couple of critical ones (eg,
 POM plugin ordering regression) that are worth having IMO.

 Cheers,
 Brett


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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-07-01 Thread Jörg Schaible
Brian Fox wrote:

 Yeah get rid of it. Is there really demand for the fixed in 2.0.11? I
 feel like it's EOL now.

The point is, in 6 months nobody knows axaclty anymore what is in
2.0.11-SNAPSHOT. That will actually stop any bugfix release ever.

- Jörg


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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-07-01 Thread Paul Benedict
My preference is to release 2.0.11 as it is now (37 issues fixed). The
remaining issues should move to 2.2.1. If critical bugs remain in
2.0.x, then build build a 2.0.12 issue list as people require it.

- Paul

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 10:33 AM, Jörg Schaiblejoerg.schai...@gmx.de wrote:
 Brian Fox wrote:

 Yeah get rid of it. Is there really demand for the fixed in 2.0.11? I
 feel like it's EOL now.

 The point is, in 6 months nobody knows axaclty anymore what is in
 2.0.11-SNAPSHOT. That will actually stop any bugfix release ever.

 - Jörg


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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-07-01 Thread John Casey

+1

Paul Benedict wrote:

My preference is to release 2.0.11 as it is now (37 issues fixed). The
remaining issues should move to 2.2.1. If critical bugs remain in
2.0.x, then build build a 2.0.12 issue list as people require it.

- Paul

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 10:33 AM, Jörg Schaiblejoerg.schai...@gmx.de wrote:

Brian Fox wrote:


Yeah get rid of it. Is there really demand for the fixed in 2.0.11? I
feel like it's EOL now.

The point is, in 6 months nobody knows axaclty anymore what is in
2.0.11-SNAPSHOT. That will actually stop any bugfix release ever.

- Jörg


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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-07-01 Thread Christian Schulte
Paul Benedict schrieb:
 My preference is to release 2.0.11 as it is now (37 issues fixed). The
 remaining issues should move to 2.2.1. If critical bugs remain in
 2.0.x, then build build a 2.0.12 issue list as people require it.
 
 - Paul
 

+1

2.0.x is the last JDK 1.4 release. Users of the GPG plugin simply cannot
use 2.1.x.

-- 
Christian


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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-07-01 Thread Brett Porter
Ok, for starters I've moved all the open issues from 2.0.11 to 2.2.1  
and am now going through them to cull them down where possible.


I've also confirmed that the ITs pass for 2.0.11-SNAPSHOT as it is.

Once I get the 2.1.x bits cleaned up (per original mail that everyone  
seems in favour of), I'll spin an RC and see what everyone thinks.


- Brett

On 02/07/2009, at 1:46 AM, John Casey wrote:


+1

Paul Benedict wrote:
My preference is to release 2.0.11 as it is now (37 issues fixed).  
The

remaining issues should move to 2.2.1. If critical bugs remain in
2.0.x, then build build a 2.0.12 issue list as people require it.
- Paul
On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 10:33 AM, Jörg  
Schaiblejoerg.schai...@gmx.de wrote:

Brian Fox wrote:

Yeah get rid of it. Is there really demand for the fixed in  
2.0.11? I

feel like it's EOL now.

The point is, in 6 months nobody knows axaclty anymore what is in
2.0.11-SNAPSHOT. That will actually stop any bugfix release ever.

- Jörg


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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-07-01 Thread Jason van Zyl


On 1-Jul-09, at 9:47 AM, Brett Porter wrote:

Ok, for starters I've moved all the open issues from 2.0.11 to 2.2.1  
and am now going through them to cull them down where possible.




You need to leave the bugs raised against 2.0.x because there is no  
way around the fact that 2.0.x is going to be the dominant version  
used for quite some time. We can't just stop bug fixing the 2.0.x  
line. If you moved them all how are you going to know what applies?



I've also confirmed that the ITs pass for 2.0.11-SNAPSHOT as it is.

Once I get the 2.1.x bits cleaned up (per original mail that  
everyone seems in favour of), I'll spin an RC and see what everyone  
thinks.


- Brett

On 02/07/2009, at 1:46 AM, John Casey wrote:


+1

Paul Benedict wrote:
My preference is to release 2.0.11 as it is now (37 issues fixed).  
The

remaining issues should move to 2.2.1. If critical bugs remain in
2.0.x, then build build a 2.0.12 issue list as people require it.
- Paul
On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 10:33 AM, Jörg  
Schaiblejoerg.schai...@gmx.de wrote:

Brian Fox wrote:

Yeah get rid of it. Is there really demand for the fixed in  
2.0.11? I

feel like it's EOL now.

The point is, in 6 months nobody knows axaclty anymore what is in
2.0.11-SNAPSHOT. That will actually stop any bugfix release ever.

- Jörg


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Thanks,

Jason

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First, the taking in of scattered particulars under one Idea,
so that everyone understands what is being talked about ... Second,
the separation of the Idea into parts, by dividing it at the joints,
as nature directs, not breaking any limb in half as a bad carver might.

  -- Plato, Phaedrus (Notes on the Synthesis of Form by C. Alexander)


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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-07-01 Thread Brett Porter


On 02/07/2009, at 3:38 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:



On 1-Jul-09, at 9:47 AM, Brett Porter wrote:

Ok, for starters I've moved all the open issues from 2.0.11 to  
2.2.1 and am now going through them to cull them down where possible.




You need to leave the bugs raised against 2.0.x because there is no  
way around the fact that 2.0.x is going to be the dominant version  
used for quite some time. We can't just stop bug fixing the 2.0.x  
line. If you moved them all how are you going to know what applies?


There weren't any changes to the affects version.

- Brett


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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-07-01 Thread Paul Benedict
It's logical to believe that 2.1 and 2.2 contain almost all the
unresolved bugs of 2.0.x. Since 2.0.x is no longer being supported,
there's no good reason to keep them attached to that version. You only
want to backport the issues that will get fixing -- not potential
fixes UNLESS the issue is exclusively a 2.0.x issue.

-- Paul

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Jason van Zyljvan...@sonatype.com wrote:

 You need to leave the bugs raised against 2.0.x because there is no way
 around the fact that 2.0.x is going to be the dominant version used for
 quite some time. We can't just stop bug fixing the 2.0.x line. If you moved
 them all how are you going to know what applies?

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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-07-01 Thread Jörg Schaible
Christian Schulte wrote:

 Paul Benedict schrieb:
 My preference is to release 2.0.11 as it is now (37 issues fixed). The
 remaining issues should move to 2.2.1. If critical bugs remain in
 2.0.x, then build build a 2.0.12 issue list as people require it.
 
 - Paul
 
 
 +1
 
 2.0.x is the last JDK 1.4 release. Users of the GPG plugin simply cannot
 use 2.1.x.


No. 2.1.x is also JDK 1.4. That was the whole point for starting 2.2.x.

- Jörg



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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-07-01 Thread Jason van Zyl

On 1-Jul-09, at 10:52 AM, Paul Benedict wrote:


It's logical to believe that 2.1 and 2.2 contain almost all the
unresolved bugs of 2.0.x. Since 2.0.x is no longer being supported,
there's no good reason to keep them attached to that version. You only
want to backport the issues that will get fixing -- not potential
fixes UNLESS the issue is exclusively a 2.0.x issue.



Unfortunately this may not be the case because the code bases are now  
pretty different. My only concern is that the 2.0.x line becomes the  
ugly stepchild meanwhile this is where the vast majority of our users  
live.



-- Paul

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Jason van Zyljvan...@sonatype.com  
wrote:


You need to leave the bugs raised against 2.0.x because there is no  
way
around the fact that 2.0.x is going to be the dominant version used  
for
quite some time. We can't just stop bug fixing the 2.0.x line. If  
you moved

them all how are you going to know what applies?


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Thanks,

Jason

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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-07-01 Thread John Casey

FYI, you can still build 1.4 projects safely in Maven 2.2.0:

http://maven.apache.org/guides/mini/guide-building-jdk14-on-jdk15.html

-john

Christian Schulte wrote:

Paul Benedict schrieb:

My preference is to release 2.0.11 as it is now (37 issues fixed). The
remaining issues should move to 2.2.1. If critical bugs remain in
2.0.x, then build build a 2.0.12 issue list as people require it.

- Paul



+1

2.0.x is the last JDK 1.4 release. Users of the GPG plugin simply cannot
use 2.1.x.



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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-07-01 Thread Brett Porter



On 02/07/2009, at 4:06 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:


On 1-Jul-09, at 10:52 AM, Paul Benedict wrote:


It's logical to believe that 2.1 and 2.2 contain almost all the
unresolved bugs of 2.0.x. Since 2.0.x is no longer being supported,
there's no good reason to keep them attached to that version. You  
only

want to backport the issues that will get fixing -- not potential
fixes UNLESS the issue is exclusively a 2.0.x issue.



Unfortunately this may not be the case because the code bases are  
now pretty different. My only concern is that the 2.0.x line becomes  
the ugly stepchild meanwhile this is where the vast majority of our  
users live.


Ok, even so - I think there was some agreement that we wouldn't  
explicitly plan for a 2.0.12+ release, which was the motivation for  
the change I made. If, in the process of fixing an issue, the  
committer decides it really should be backported to 2.0.x that's still  
a possibility (or if someone else comes along and requests it).


But I get the feeling that those sticking to 2.0.x are happy - in  
that they've got things working the way they want and probably won't  
jump up to further 2.0.x releases, let along 2.2.x. If we put out a  
2.0.11 release and say this is the last, barring critical issues -  
start looking at 2.2, we'll fairly soon hear about it if that's not  
what users want.


At the same time, if we do start pushing fixes into 2.2.x, that gives  
more people incentive to try it, and help us identify if there are  
further barriers to moving across, in addition to continuing to build  
out more integration test cases that benefit us across the board.


- Brett


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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-07-01 Thread John Casey

Brett Porter wrote:


But I get the feeling that those sticking to 2.0.x are happy - in that 
they've got things working the way they want and probably won't jump up 
to further 2.0.x releases, let along 2.2.x. If we put out a 2.0.11 
release and say this is the last, barring critical issues - start 
looking at 2.2, we'll fairly soon hear about it if that's not what 
users want.


At the same time, if we do start pushing fixes into 2.2.x, that gives 
more people incentive to try it, and help us identify if there are 
further barriers to moving across, in addition to continuing to build 
out more integration test cases that benefit us across the board.


- Brett


Personally, I think this makes a lot of sense. I think we shouldn't go 
out of our way to freak out our user base, but at the same time we 
shouldn't spend too much time pushing the envelope with 2.0.x now that 
we've decided to move on. If we announce that we're doing critical fixes 
only on 2.0.x - and not spending time cleaning up -  then people who 
have a problem with this should become visible. It's a good way to 
engage with our community to figure out why people won't make the jump, IMO.


If it's just about an arbitrary version number, I'm not sure how to 
reassure those people without making a largely symbolic 2.2.1 release.


-john




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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-07-01 Thread Paul Benedict
Jason, I apologize for misspeaking. I meant what Brian said: the
affected version should stay the same. It's okay to remove the Fix
for version which was altered to 2.2.1

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Brett Porterbr...@apache.org wrote:


 On 02/07/2009, at 4:06 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:

 On 1-Jul-09, at 10:52 AM, Paul Benedict wrote:

 It's logical to believe that 2.1 and 2.2 contain almost all the
 unresolved bugs of 2.0.x. Since 2.0.x is no longer being supported,
 there's no good reason to keep them attached to that version. You only
 want to backport the issues that will get fixing -- not potential
 fixes UNLESS the issue is exclusively a 2.0.x issue.


 Unfortunately this may not be the case because the code bases are now
 pretty different. My only concern is that the 2.0.x line becomes the ugly
 stepchild meanwhile this is where the vast majority of our users live.

 Ok, even so - I think there was some agreement that we wouldn't explicitly
 plan for a 2.0.12+ release, which was the motivation for the change I made.
 If, in the process of fixing an issue, the committer decides it really
 should be backported to 2.0.x that's still a possibility (or if someone else
 comes along and requests it).

 But I get the feeling that those sticking to 2.0.x are happy - in that
 they've got things working the way they want and probably won't jump up to
 further 2.0.x releases, let along 2.2.x. If we put out a 2.0.11 release and
 say this is the last, barring critical issues - start looking at 2.2,
 we'll fairly soon hear about it if that's not what users want.

 At the same time, if we do start pushing fixes into 2.2.x, that gives more
 people incentive to try it, and help us identify if there are further
 barriers to moving across, in addition to continuing to build out more
 integration test cases that benefit us across the board.

 - Brett


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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-07-01 Thread Christian Gruber

As a user... +1

On Jul 1, 2009, at 3:41 PM, John Casey wrote:


Brett Porter wrote:
But I get the feeling that those sticking to 2.0.x are happy - in  
that they've got things working the way they want and probably  
won't jump up to further 2.0.x releases, let along 2.2.x. If we put  
out a 2.0.11 release and say this is the last, barring critical  
issues - start looking at 2.2, we'll fairly soon hear about it if  
that's not what users want.
At the same time, if we do start pushing fixes into 2.2.x, that  
gives more people incentive to try it, and help us identify if  
there are further barriers to moving across, in addition to  
continuing to build out more integration test cases that benefit us  
across the board.

- Brett


Personally, I think this makes a lot of sense. I think we shouldn't  
go out of our way to freak out our user base, but at the same time  
we shouldn't spend too much time pushing the envelope with 2.0.x now  
that we've decided to move on. If we announce that we're doing  
critical fixes only on 2.0.x - and not spending time cleaning up  
-  then people who have a problem with this should become visible.  
It's a good way to engage with our community to figure out why  
people won't make the jump, IMO.


If it's just about an arbitrary version number, I'm not sure how to  
reassure those people without making a largely symbolic 2.2.1 release.


-john


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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-06-30 Thread Jason van Zyl

On 29-Jun-09, at 7:54 PM, Brian Fox wrote:


Yeah get rid of it. Is there really demand for the fixed in 2.0.11? I
feel like it's EOL now.



I would guess the vast majority of users are still using the 2.0.x  
line because the 2.1.x and 2.2.x lines have come out very quickly and  
users will probably let those bake awhile. I think there are still too  
many inconsistencies between the lines and change between minor  
versions happened a little too quickly for people to absorb. I think  
the 2.0.x line will still be in widespread use for the next year.



On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Brett Porterbr...@apache.org wrote:
Just a matter of clarity. If its not there, there will be no  
question about

whether to merge to it or not.

- Brett

On 30/06/2009, at 4:12 AM, Paul Benedict wrote:


Hmm...


- declare 2.0.x EOL after that release and delete the branch


What harm is there in keeping it around? Even if you never return to
it, it doesn't cost you anything to keep it.

Paul

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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-06-30 Thread Paul Benedict
Personally, I will not be upgrading to Maven 2.2 until the next patch
release. I am skipping 2.1 because there is no 2.1.1. Being
conservative in my approach, I find it just too risky inside an
organization to bring in upgrades without at least one patch release.

Will anyone yet document justification for upgrading to 2.2/2.1 from
2.0? JIRA notes are for the geeks but a general summary would be
worthwhile.

I disagree with deleting branches. I think that's extreme.

Paul

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 8:05 AM, Jason van Zyljvan...@sonatype.com wrote:
 On 29-Jun-09, at 7:54 PM, Brian Fox wrote:

 Yeah get rid of it. Is there really demand for the fixed in 2.0.11? I
 feel like it's EOL now.


 I would guess the vast majority of users are still using the 2.0.x line
 because the 2.1.x and 2.2.x lines have come out very quickly and users will
 probably let those bake awhile. I think there are still too many
 inconsistencies between the lines and change between minor versions happened
 a little too quickly for people to absorb. I think the 2.0.x line will still
 be in widespread use for the next year.

 On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Brett Porterbr...@apache.org wrote:

 Just a matter of clarity. If its not there, there will be no question
 about
 whether to merge to it or not.

 - Brett

 On 30/06/2009, at 4:12 AM, Paul Benedict wrote:

 Hmm...

 - declare 2.0.x EOL after that release and delete the branch

 What harm is there in keeping it around? Even if you never return to
 it, it doesn't cost you anything to keep it.

 Paul

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 Jason

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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-06-30 Thread nicolas de loof
Brett Porter wrote:

- remove the 2.1.1 version from JIRA and remove the 2.1.x SVN branch -


+1

- promote the 2.2.0 as the stable release on the site and push all bugfix
 work towards 2.2.x


+1

- a 2.0.11 release to get those sticking to 2.0.x the 37 fixes already
 committed there.


+1

- declare 2.0.x EOL after that release and delete the branch


non binding -1 : The 2.0 user base is still large, most of them just don't
yet use the latest 2.0.10. We could just promote 2.2.x as the latest stable
release BUT still consider a critical bug-fix branch for 2.0.x

2009/6/30 Paul Benedict pbened...@apache.org

 Personally, I will not be upgrading to Maven 2.2 until the next patch
 release. I am skipping 2.1 because there is no 2.1.1. Being
 conservative in my approach, I find it just too risky inside an
 organization to bring in upgrades without at least one patch release.

 Will anyone yet document justification for upgrading to 2.2/2.1 from
 2.0? JIRA notes are for the geeks but a general summary would be
 worthwhile.

 I disagree with deleting branches. I think that's extreme.

 Paul

 On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 8:05 AM, Jason van Zyljvan...@sonatype.com
 wrote:
  On 29-Jun-09, at 7:54 PM, Brian Fox wrote:
 
  Yeah get rid of it. Is there really demand for the fixed in 2.0.11? I
  feel like it's EOL now.
 
 
  I would guess the vast majority of users are still using the 2.0.x line
  because the 2.1.x and 2.2.x lines have come out very quickly and users
 will
  probably let those bake awhile. I think there are still too many
  inconsistencies between the lines and change between minor versions
 happened
  a little too quickly for people to absorb. I think the 2.0.x line will
 still
  be in widespread use for the next year.
 
  On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Brett Porterbr...@apache.org wrote:
 
  Just a matter of clarity. If its not there, there will be no question
  about
  whether to merge to it or not.
 
  - Brett
 
  On 30/06/2009, at 4:12 AM, Paul Benedict wrote:
 
  Hmm...
 
  - declare 2.0.x EOL after that release and delete the branch
 
  What harm is there in keeping it around? Even if you never return to
  it, it doesn't cost you anything to keep it.
 
  Paul
 
  -
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  Thanks,
 
  Jason
 
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  Founder,  Apache Maven
  http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
  http://twitter.com/SonatypeNexus
  http://twitter.com/SonatypeM2E
  --
 
  Three may keep a secret if two of them are dead.
 
   -- Benjamin Franklin
 
 
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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-06-30 Thread Christian Gruber
+1 to Nicholas' assessment.  Too many firms I've worked with won't be  
changing to 2.1/2.2 until it's been in production release for several  
months, and probably won't trust it.  They'll need critical bug  
support on 2.0.  We just need a window for migration, that's all.


cheers,
Christian.

On Jun 30, 2009, at 9:52 AM, nicolas de loof wrote:


Brett Porter wrote:

- remove the 2.1.1 version from JIRA and remove the 2.1.x SVN branch -




+1

- promote the 2.2.0 as the stable release on the site and push all  
bugfix

work towards 2.2.x



+1

- a 2.0.11 release to get those sticking to 2.0.x the 37 fixes already

committed there.



+1

- declare 2.0.x EOL after that release and delete the branch




non binding -1 : The 2.0 user base is still large, most of them just  
don't
yet use the latest 2.0.10. We could just promote 2.2.x as the latest  
stable

release BUT still consider a critical bug-fix branch for 2.0.x

2009/6/30 Paul Benedict pbened...@apache.org


Personally, I will not be upgrading to Maven 2.2 until the next patch
release. I am skipping 2.1 because there is no 2.1.1. Being
conservative in my approach, I find it just too risky inside an
organization to bring in upgrades without at least one patch release.

Will anyone yet document justification for upgrading to 2.2/2.1 from
2.0? JIRA notes are for the geeks but a general summary would be
worthwhile.

I disagree with deleting branches. I think that's extreme.

Paul

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 8:05 AM, Jason van Zyljvan...@sonatype.com
wrote:

On 29-Jun-09, at 7:54 PM, Brian Fox wrote:

Yeah get rid of it. Is there really demand for the fixed in  
2.0.11? I

feel like it's EOL now.



I would guess the vast majority of users are still using the 2.0.x  
line
because the 2.1.x and 2.2.x lines have come out very quickly and  
users

will

probably let those bake awhile. I think there are still too many
inconsistencies between the lines and change between minor versions

happened
a little too quickly for people to absorb. I think the 2.0.x line  
will

still

be in widespread use for the next year.

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Brett Porterbr...@apache.org  
wrote:


Just a matter of clarity. If its not there, there will be no  
question

about
whether to merge to it or not.

- Brett

On 30/06/2009, at 4:12 AM, Paul Benedict wrote:


Hmm...


- declare 2.0.x EOL after that release and delete the branch


What harm is there in keeping it around? Even if you never  
return to

it, it doesn't cost you anything to keep it.

Paul

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Thanks,

Jason

--
Jason van Zyl
Founder,  Apache Maven
http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
http://twitter.com/SonatypeNexus
http://twitter.com/SonatypeM2E
--

Three may keep a secret if two of them are dead.

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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-06-30 Thread Brian Fox
That's all fine, I'm just saying that 2.0.10 has been out for a while
now without any serious show stoppers that I'm aware of. 2.0.9 and
2.0.10 are very stable, I would rather see effort spent on the 2.2.x
line instead.

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Christian
Gruberchristianedwardgru...@gmail.com wrote:
 +1 to Nicholas' assessment.  Too many firms I've worked with won't be
 changing to 2.1/2.2 until it's been in production release for several
 months, and probably won't trust it.  They'll need critical bug support on
 2.0.  We just need a window for migration, that's all.

 cheers,
 Christian.

 On Jun 30, 2009, at 9:52 AM, nicolas de loof wrote:

 Brett Porter wrote:

 - remove the 2.1.1 version from JIRA and remove the 2.1.x SVN branch -


 +1

 - promote the 2.2.0 as the stable release on the site and push all bugfix

 work towards 2.2.x


 +1

 - a 2.0.11 release to get those sticking to 2.0.x the 37 fixes already

 committed there.


 +1

 - declare 2.0.x EOL after that release and delete the branch


 non binding -1 : The 2.0 user base is still large, most of them just don't
 yet use the latest 2.0.10. We could just promote 2.2.x as the latest
 stable
 release BUT still consider a critical bug-fix branch for 2.0.x

 2009/6/30 Paul Benedict pbened...@apache.org

 Personally, I will not be upgrading to Maven 2.2 until the next patch
 release. I am skipping 2.1 because there is no 2.1.1. Being
 conservative in my approach, I find it just too risky inside an
 organization to bring in upgrades without at least one patch release.

 Will anyone yet document justification for upgrading to 2.2/2.1 from
 2.0? JIRA notes are for the geeks but a general summary would be
 worthwhile.

 I disagree with deleting branches. I think that's extreme.

 Paul

 On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 8:05 AM, Jason van Zyljvan...@sonatype.com
 wrote:

 On 29-Jun-09, at 7:54 PM, Brian Fox wrote:

 Yeah get rid of it. Is there really demand for the fixed in 2.0.11? I
 feel like it's EOL now.


 I would guess the vast majority of users are still using the 2.0.x line
 because the 2.1.x and 2.2.x lines have come out very quickly and users

 will

 probably let those bake awhile. I think there are still too many
 inconsistencies between the lines and change between minor versions

 happened

 a little too quickly for people to absorb. I think the 2.0.x line will

 still

 be in widespread use for the next year.

 On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Brett Porterbr...@apache.org wrote:

 Just a matter of clarity. If its not there, there will be no question
 about
 whether to merge to it or not.

 - Brett

 On 30/06/2009, at 4:12 AM, Paul Benedict wrote:

 Hmm...

 - declare 2.0.x EOL after that release and delete the branch

 What harm is there in keeping it around? Even if you never return to
 it, it doesn't cost you anything to keep it.

 Paul

 -
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org
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 Thanks,

 Jason

 --
 Jason van Zyl
 Founder,  Apache Maven
 http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
 http://twitter.com/SonatypeNexus
 http://twitter.com/SonatypeM2E
 --

 Three may keep a secret if two of them are dead.

 -- Benjamin Franklin


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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-06-30 Thread nicolas de loof
I'm also fine with this, just would like to avoid some EOL tag on 2.0 that
may be considered as lack of support by some corporate users using (old)
maven releases


2009/6/30 Christian Gruber christianedwardgru...@gmail.com

 No arguments with that statement.

 Christian.


 On Jun 30, 2009, at 10:49 AM, Brian Fox wrote:

  That's all fine, I'm just saying that 2.0.10 has been out for a while
 now without any serious show stoppers that I'm aware of. 2.0.9 and
 2.0.10 are very stable, I would rather see effort spent on the 2.2.x
 line instead.

 On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Christian
 Gruberchristianedwardgru...@gmail.com wrote:

 +1 to Nicholas' assessment.  Too many firms I've worked with won't be
 changing to 2.1/2.2 until it's been in production release for several
 months, and probably won't trust it.  They'll need critical bug support
 on
 2.0.  We just need a window for migration, that's all.

 cheers,
 Christian.

 On Jun 30, 2009, at 9:52 AM, nicolas de loof wrote:

  Brett Porter wrote:

 - remove the 2.1.1 version from JIRA and remove the 2.1.x SVN branch -



 +1

 - promote the 2.2.0 as the stable release on the site and push all
 bugfix


 work towards 2.2.x


 +1

 - a 2.0.11 release to get those sticking to 2.0.x the 37 fixes already


 committed there.


 +1

 - declare 2.0.x EOL after that release and delete the branch



 non binding -1 : The 2.0 user base is still large, most of them just
 don't
 yet use the latest 2.0.10. We could just promote 2.2.x as the latest
 stable
 release BUT still consider a critical bug-fix branch for 2.0.x

 2009/6/30 Paul Benedict pbened...@apache.org

  Personally, I will not be upgrading to Maven 2.2 until the next patch
 release. I am skipping 2.1 because there is no 2.1.1. Being
 conservative in my approach, I find it just too risky inside an
 organization to bring in upgrades without at least one patch release.

 Will anyone yet document justification for upgrading to 2.2/2.1 from
 2.0? JIRA notes are for the geeks but a general summary would be
 worthwhile.

 I disagree with deleting branches. I think that's extreme.

 Paul

 On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 8:05 AM, Jason van Zyljvan...@sonatype.com
 wrote:


 On 29-Jun-09, at 7:54 PM, Brian Fox wrote:

  Yeah get rid of it. Is there really demand for the fixed in 2.0.11? I
 feel like it's EOL now.


 I would guess the vast majority of users are still using the 2.0.x
 line
 because the 2.1.x and 2.2.x lines have come out very quickly and users


 will


 probably let those bake awhile. I think there are still too many
 inconsistencies between the lines and change between minor versions


 happened


 a little too quickly for people to absorb. I think the 2.0.x line will


 still


 be in widespread use for the next year.

  On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Brett Porterbr...@apache.org
 wrote:


 Just a matter of clarity. If its not there, there will be no
 question
 about
 whether to merge to it or not.

 - Brett

 On 30/06/2009, at 4:12 AM, Paul Benedict wrote:

  Hmm...

  - declare 2.0.x EOL after that release and delete the branch


 What harm is there in keeping it around? Even if you never return
 to
 it, it doesn't cost you anything to keep it.

 Paul


 -
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org
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 Thanks,

 Jason

 --
 Jason van Zyl
 Founder,  Apache Maven
 http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
 http://twitter.com/SonatypeNexus
 http://twitter.com/SonatypeM2E
 --

 Three may keep a secret if two of them are dead.

 -- Benjamin Franklin


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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-06-30 Thread John Casey

I'll write this up in the site docs, but for now I'll explain here:

There are a couple of reasons for moving 2.1 = 2.2 directly. First, 
we've moved to a requirement on JDK 1.5. While we had decided to do this 
for 2.1.0, we never enforced it or changed the Maven binaries 
themselves. To keep from surprising users of 2.1.0 with an abrupt JDK 
upgrade requirement in 2.1.1, we're just moving to 2.2.0.


The other reasons a probably a little more, well, gray. First, we've 
removed support for version-expression resolution in the POM on 
install/deploy. You can see MNG-4223 for more discussion on this and a 
link to a more in-depth exploration of the issue. Also, we've introduced 
some new default execution IDs for configuring goals that are bound to 
the lifecycle via package mappings, and for goals executed directly from 
the command line. These new executionIds represent some new assumptions 
made by Maven, and conceivably could produce collisions with existing 
executionIds for users. You can see MNG-3401 and MNG-3203 for more 
discussion and links to documentation that will eventually land on the 
Maven website.


While I understand your hesitation to move to a 2.2.0-type release, this 
isn't exactly the same as a 2.0 release. Sure, there are major changes 
here, but the fact is 2.1.0 was our most tested, scrutinized release to 
date, and 2.2.0 builds on the two or three problems that appeared in 
that release. Obviously it's up to you, but I'd highly recommend using 
2.2.0.


-john

Paul Benedict wrote:

Personally, I will not be upgrading to Maven 2.2 until the next patch
release. I am skipping 2.1 because there is no 2.1.1. Being
conservative in my approach, I find it just too risky inside an
organization to bring in upgrades without at least one patch release.

Will anyone yet document justification for upgrading to 2.2/2.1 from
2.0? JIRA notes are for the geeks but a general summary would be
worthwhile.

I disagree with deleting branches. I think that's extreme.

Paul

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 8:05 AM, Jason van Zyljvan...@sonatype.com wrote:

On 29-Jun-09, at 7:54 PM, Brian Fox wrote:


Yeah get rid of it. Is there really demand for the fixed in 2.0.11? I
feel like it's EOL now.


I would guess the vast majority of users are still using the 2.0.x line
because the 2.1.x and 2.2.x lines have come out very quickly and users will
probably let those bake awhile. I think there are still too many
inconsistencies between the lines and change between minor versions happened
a little too quickly for people to absorb. I think the 2.0.x line will still
be in widespread use for the next year.


On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Brett Porterbr...@apache.org wrote:

Just a matter of clarity. If its not there, there will be no question
about
whether to merge to it or not.

- Brett

On 30/06/2009, at 4:12 AM, Paul Benedict wrote:


Hmm...


- declare 2.0.x EOL after that release and delete the branch

What harm is there in keeping it around? Even if you never return to
it, it doesn't cost you anything to keep it.

Paul

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Thanks,

Jason

--
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Founder,  Apache Maven
http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
http://twitter.com/SonatypeNexus
http://twitter.com/SonatypeM2E
--

Three may keep a secret if two of them are dead.

 -- Benjamin Franklin


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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-06-30 Thread Brett Porter



On 01/07/2009, at 1:47 AM, nicolas de loof wrote:

I'm also fine with this, just would like to avoid some EOL tag on  
2.0 that
may be considered as lack of support by some corporate users using  
(old)

maven releases


Sure, we can use a different name. All I meant EOL to mean here was  
that we don't plan to make any more releases (unless something is  
found to be really, horribly, wrong). EOD (end of development) is  
probably more appropriate.


It'd still be supported (in our case, I think that means accepting  
bugreps against 2.0.x) for some time yet.


- Brett


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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-06-30 Thread Brian Fox
On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 11:58 AM, Brett Porterbr...@apache.org wrote:


 On 01/07/2009, at 1:47 AM, nicolas de loof wrote:

 I'm also fine with this, just would like to avoid some EOL tag on 2.0
 that
 may be considered as lack of support by some corporate users using (old)
 maven releases

 Sure, we can use a different name. All I meant EOL to mean here was that we
 don't plan to make any more releases (unless something is found to be
 really, horribly, wrong). EOD (end of development) is probably more
 appropriate.


Exactly, and IMO, we're at that point today with 2.0.10

 It'd still be supported (in our case, I think that means accepting bugreps
 against 2.0.x) for some time yet.

 - Brett


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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-06-29 Thread Benjamin Bentmann

Brett Porter wrote:

- remove the 2.1.1 version from JIRA and remove the 2.1.x SVN branch - 


+1

- promote the 2.2.0 as the stable release on the site and push all 
bugfix work towards 2.2.x


+1

- a 2.0.11 release to get those sticking to 2.0.x the 37 fixes already 
committed there.


+1


- declare 2.0.x EOL after that release and delete the branch


+1

Let's move forward and get focused on Maven 2.2+.


Benjamin

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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-06-29 Thread Paul Benedict
Hmm...

 - declare 2.0.x EOL after that release and delete the branch

What harm is there in keeping it around? Even if you never return to
it, it doesn't cost you anything to keep it.

Paul

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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-06-29 Thread Arnaud HERITIER
+4 also
Cheers,

Arnaud

# Arnaud Héritier
# http://blog.aheritier.net


On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Benjamin Bentmann 
benjamin.bentm...@udo.edu wrote:

 Brett Porter wrote:

  - remove the 2.1.1 version from JIRA and remove the 2.1.x SVN branch -


 +1

  - promote the 2.2.0 as the stable release on the site and push all bugfix
 work towards 2.2.x


 +1

  - a 2.0.11 release to get those sticking to 2.0.x the 37 fixes already
 committed there.


 +1

  - declare 2.0.x EOL after that release and delete the branch


 +1

 Let's move forward and get focused on Maven 2.2+.


 Benjamin


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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-06-29 Thread Arnaud HERITIER
Myself, I prefer to create a branch only when I need it.
If one day we need to work on 2.0.x, we'll start a new branch copied
from the last tag. We have already in SVN many branches for which we
don't know if they are useful or not.

Cheers,

Arnaud

# Arnaud Héritier
# http://blog.aheritier.net


On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 8:12 PM, Paul Benedict pbened...@apache.org wrote:

 Hmm...

  - declare 2.0.x EOL after that release and delete the branch

 What harm is there in keeping it around? Even if you never return to
 it, it doesn't cost you anything to keep it.

 Paul

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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-06-29 Thread John Casey

+4

Brett Porter wrote:
With the 2.2.0 release coming up, I've started to find the amount of 
merging (and consistency of it) is becoming harder, and I think it might 
be inevitable that there'll be confusion from users about what release 
is the right one to use.


I'd like to suggest the following:
- remove the 2.1.1 version from JIRA and remove the 2.1.x SVN branch - 
there seems no point in releasing 2.1.1 if 2.2.0 is out (2.2.1 could be 
released for the fixes made that aren't on the RC branch).
- promote the 2.2.0 as the stable release on the site and push all 
bugfix work towards 2.2.x
- a 2.0.11 release to get those sticking to 2.0.x the 37 fixes already 
committed there.

- declare 2.0.x EOL after that release and delete the branch

Any concerns with this approach?

- Brett

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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-06-29 Thread Brett Porter
Just a matter of clarity. If its not there, there will be no question  
about whether to merge to it or not.


- Brett

On 30/06/2009, at 4:12 AM, Paul Benedict wrote:


Hmm...


- declare 2.0.x EOL after that release and delete the branch


What harm is there in keeping it around? Even if you never return to
it, it doesn't cost you anything to keep it.

Paul

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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-06-29 Thread Brian Fox
Yeah get rid of it. Is there really demand for the fixed in 2.0.11? I
feel like it's EOL now.

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Brett Porterbr...@apache.org wrote:
 Just a matter of clarity. If its not there, there will be no question about
 whether to merge to it or not.

 - Brett

 On 30/06/2009, at 4:12 AM, Paul Benedict wrote:

 Hmm...

 - declare 2.0.x EOL after that release and delete the branch

 What harm is there in keeping it around? Even if you never return to
 it, it doesn't cost you anything to keep it.

 Paul

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Re: proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-06-29 Thread Brett Porter



On 30/06/2009, at 12:54 PM, Brian Fox wrote:


Yeah get rid of it. Is there really demand for the fixed in 2.0.11? I
feel like it's EOL now.


There's a couple of useful things in there, and given that they've  
already been merged up there it seems like a nice way to wrap up the  
series.


I also get the feeling for one reason or another some people are  
holding off on going past 2.0.x, so as much as anything I think it's a  
good way to get the message out that it's the last 2.0.x release and  
that all those fixes and more are included in 2.2.0 (which will  
already be out).


Cheers,
Brett

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proposal for cleaning up 2.x series releases / trees

2009-06-28 Thread Brett Porter
With the 2.2.0 release coming up, I've started to find the amount of  
merging (and consistency of it) is becoming harder, and I think it  
might be inevitable that there'll be confusion from users about what  
release is the right one to use.


I'd like to suggest the following:
- remove the 2.1.1 version from JIRA and remove the 2.1.x SVN branch -  
there seems no point in releasing 2.1.1 if 2.2.0 is out (2.2.1 could  
be released for the fixes made that aren't on the RC branch).
- promote the 2.2.0 as the stable release on the site and push all  
bugfix work towards 2.2.x
- a 2.0.11 release to get those sticking to 2.0.x the 37 fixes already  
committed there.

- declare 2.0.x EOL after that release and delete the branch

Any concerns with this approach?

- Brett

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