[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
Yep, It is time for all the TM Rajas to back away from such a fruitless policy. They need to do whatever they need to put an end to it. It is time now to put an end to their suppressing the dome numbers by linking dome badges with the anti-saint policy. These TM Rajas, they should be apologizing to and asking for forgiveness from the community. All those ones on the stage at that meeting. Nadar-raam too. Yeah, it is a bad corrosive policy with only poor success that they have had with the dome numbers. These TM-Rajas, they are completely holding back World Peace. Given the quite strong and substantial peer-review science on all this, it would seem these Raja evidently are holding back World Peace with their anti-saint dome policy done this way they do. These poor dome numbers here have long been the problem of this policy they are keeping. It is a shame and a time is come to change it. En lieu it would not be a bad thing to prosecute them all for crimes against humanity at the World Court of International Justice in the Hague. Their own research on meditating groups coupled with their miserable dome numbers would convict them. It is a sad case. A crime. The domes are full of people right now who have visited saints. Yep, evidently the Rajas have produced two domes full of liars. That is a bad feeling there as in, not a good feeling to have there underneath. These TM Rajas, that large Prime Minister in particular, push people to lie, hide and kiss ass to stay in the domes. I interviewed a person recently who was on the Mother Divine program, she remarked that to survive on Mother Divine they would all lie, hide and kiss-ass about this. In people's life the TM anti-saint policy is quite without conscience for people to participate. The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yes, it is really quite incredible that these TM Rajas should even be going against Guru Dev's very certain spiritual advice to make use of our time on earth particularly by being with saints. Oh Please! They are not going against Guru Dev, they are trying to follow the guidelines set up by Maharishi himself long ago. Now, leave Guru Dev out of this, we don't know what he would have said. MMY was entirely clear about all of this and never ever budged from his position. Maharishi was clear, at times. This policy, I know, has consolitated during the final period of his life, but it wasn't always the same. And Maharishi could make exceptions to this rule, as I already said, for example in Lelystad. I don't blame you if you don't know that, but he did budge from his position. But in setting up 'rules', he would have to teach the administration, and usually was strong about it, I agree. The Rajas have to decide to make changes that MMY never did He did. The rules before were different (for example before the Muktananda event), and he would make exceptions himself. Now, maybe Maharishi would have changed this rule by now, but don't blame the Rajas or anyone else. This rule came from Maharishi and he was BLUNT about it. I am sure he was blunt to the administration. Yet, as you say yourself, it may be time for a change. The Rajas had no problem skipping the always-wear-a-crown thing, or inviting Beatles back, and even more so, use them for publicity, something unthinkable when Maharishi was still alive. And they even loosened the saints rule a bit, don't forget, but what I suggest is, keep these changes logical and transparent. What is
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
Yup, the problem here is that these TM Rajas take it the way they do; choosing to punish people with access to the dome over the anti-saint policy. They certainly have the power and authority to do it differently. Yep, It is time for all the TM Rajas to back away from such a fruitless policy. They need to do whatever they need to put an end to it. It is time now to put an end to their suppressing the dome numbers by linking dome badges with the anti-saint policy. These TM Rajas, they should be apologizing to and asking for forgiveness from the community. All those ones on the stage at that meeting. Nadar-raam too. Yeah, it is a bad corrosive policy with only poor success that they have had with the dome numbers. These TM-Rajas, they are completely holding back World Peace. Given the quite strong and substantial peer-review science on all this, it would seem these Raja evidently are holding back World Peace with their anti-saint dome policy done this way they do. These poor dome numbers here have long been the problem of this policy they are keeping. It is a shame and a time is come to change it. En lieu it would not be a bad thing to prosecute them all for crimes against humanity at the World Court of International Justice in the Hague. Their own research on meditating groups coupled with their miserable dome numbers would convict them. It is a sad case. A crime. The domes are full of people right now who have visited saints. Yep, evidently the Rajas have produced two domes full of liars. That is a bad feeling there as in, not a good feeling to have there underneath. These TM Rajas, that large Prime Minister in particular, push people to lie, hide and kiss ass to stay in the domes. I interviewed a person recently who was on the Mother Divine program, she remarked that to survive on Mother Divine they would all lie, hide and kiss-ass about this. In people's life the TM anti-saint policy is quite without conscience for people to participate. The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yes, it is really quite incredible that these TM Rajas should even be going against Guru Dev's very certain spiritual advice to make use of our time on earth particularly by being with saints. Oh Please! They are not going against Guru Dev, they are trying to follow the guidelines set up by Maharishi himself long ago. Now, leave Guru Dev out of this, we don't know what he would have said. MMY was entirely clear about all of this and never ever budged from his position. Maharishi was clear, at times. This policy, I know, has consolitated during the final period of his life, but it wasn't always the same. And Maharishi could make exceptions to this rule, as I already said, for example in Lelystad. I don't blame you if you don't know that, but he did budge from his position. But in setting up 'rules', he would have to teach the administration, and usually was strong about it, I agree. The Rajas have to decide to make changes that MMY never did He did. The rules before were different (for example before the Muktananda event), and he would make exceptions himself. Now, maybe Maharishi would have changed this rule by now, but don't blame the Rajas or anyone else. This rule came from Maharishi and he was BLUNT about it. I am sure he was blunt to the administration. Yet, as you say yourself, it may be time for a change. The Rajas had no
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra no_reply@ wrote: Darling Obbajeeba, I can't get rid of the hate in my heart, so please bear with me while I attack you without cause. Did you watch Ellen Degeneres open that David Lynch Foundation event? And did you read Bob Price's wife's post attempting to persuade Emily to start Transcendental Meditation? And do you recall when TM for you was the best thing goingbefore the 1980's, that is? (By the way, I am going to assume you are an initiator; if you are not then some of my comments here are not, for you, completely on the mark.) No one could see anything about Ellen Degeneres (or for that matter in Martin Scorsese's comments) or in 'Mrs. Price's' commentary which would imply any kind of influence over their own individualism and originality. TM is the most subtle and efficacious technique there is to produce a blissful experience, and the most subtle kind of changesalmost immediatelyin one's personal life. If you listen to Ellen read what Mrs. Price says in her post, you realize that TM, mechanically and efficaciously considered, beats any other spiritual technique in existenceI would even say (from an Eastern point of view) ever. The fact that in doing TM one does not change anything about oneself in terms of one's own values, beliefs, or life styleand Ellen when she extolled the benefits of TM was as convincing and persuasive as anyone could belikewise when 'Mrs Price' wrote her letter to Emilyis something without precedent. There is no 'technique' that I know of which is not wedded to some belief system in the very practising of that technique. Not so TM. Transcendental Meditation, therefore, in my opinion, obbajeeba, is sui generis, intrinsically unique, like nothing else. Doing TM does not resemble doing anything else. There isthis is my argument based upon empirical evidenceabsolutely no cross-pollination with any other technique or forms of meditation. In fact, I contend that whatever alternative spiritual tradition a former TMer turns toespecially a former initiatorhe or she will approach, and even practiseand evaluatethat new technique *entirely in terms of their pervious experience of Transcendental Meditation*. TM is not just different, obbajeeba; it is distinct and separate from everything else spiritually in existence. This is why Rick Archer always comes offto me at leastas so much more conversant with the religious forms of experience, with spiritual reality, with how to understand states of consciousness than any of his guests (except for the TM ones: like Phil Goldberg and Dana Sawyer). Despite turning from TM and Maharishi, his nervous system has been schooled in the TM-Maharishi-Guru Dev universe, and this shows through at every level of himself. Even as he now professes to have a more authentic religious experience through his relationship with Mata Amritanandamayi (Amma: the Hugging Saint) than he did with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Every one of us keen initiators, throughout the early and mid seventies, would have been nonplussed by any TM teacher trying to make the argument you make here. It wouldn't make sense to us. We did not just abide by what Maharishi had told us about guarding the purity of The Teaching; we felt it in our very soul. It was so manifestly clear to us that TM was something absolutely special, and could never be compared to anything that had been offered in our lifetime [our present one :-)] We acted on behalf of this notion of No Saints scrupulously, but not, as I say, out of deference to Maharishi; we could intuitively, deeply, feel the necessity of this. After all, what Master had produced the experience that Mother is at Home? What Master could allow us to confirm for ourselves that we were getting The Support of Nature? What other Master could deliver on his promise that once we became initiators, we could give to some other human being, a perfect stranger, this ultimate transcendent experience? The Checking Notes themselvesthe Checking Procedure as memorized and appliedare more dazzlingly and perfectly efficient than anything in existence. And there is no Master in our lifetime who systematically made teachers of this wisdom such that we could actually have the experience of tuning into the Holy Tradition, to having the experiences that previously were reserved for Hindus who sought silence in some Himalayan cave. Lookee here, obbajeeba: TM, Maharishi, becoming a TM Teacherall the advanced techniques that followed (including of course the Two Week Extension and the Sidhis)entailed participating in a certain metaphysical context within creation. And there is nothing nor ever will be anything
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
turquoiseb snip That said, there *have* been death threats issued against competing spiritual teachers (I hesitate to use the word saints because I don't consider most of them to fall into that category) who were planning to visit Fairfield. One wonders what Oprah and Ellen would think of that if they knew about it. ***BP: Its not how you handle the hills, it's how you handle the valleys. -Count Basie
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: With their fear, they've shot way too many innocent people. It is just bad PR the way they do it. They got to look at their anti-saint policy differently. I hope you're not suggesting that they shoot the saints themselves. That might be considered even more of an overkill situation than banning those with a still-intact natural tendency of the mind to seek more. :-) They should be aware, that the Mother Superior shoots back: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTRO3cSFUcE
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: More proactively, it seems to me that this would be the basis for a successful class action lawsuit. *No one* was ever told before learning the TM-Sidhis (a *huge* component of which is being able to practice them in a group) that they would be banned from such groups if they saw other spiritual teachers. I don't know about american law,and if this constitutes a fraud in the eyes of the law. But if anyone wants to sue the TM for this, they better hurry up, as long as there is still a TMO around. I don't know if the leading class of the TMO knows how late it is. Fast, very fast the current administration is approching ultimate nirvana, with not much coming behind.Think 10 or 15 years ahead of time, there won't be much of the TMO left, there are very few youngsters, and - well the school kids, but exactly where will they be, and how much they will stand behind the whole project has to be still seen. Therefore, to make TM again acceptable to a broader audience is not an issue that has a lot of time to wait for. I am not saying, that if you resolve the whole saint issue, the TM movement will be saved, of course not. But it is one of those symptomatic things, where the TMO has to change, in order to be again more accessable, and less cultish, if it wants to ever survive. Yes, time is very limited for the TMO. They would also need to change other things. If they want to bring in new and somewhat normal younger people to the practice of TM, I think they would have to do away with the whole raja and crowns thing as well. Also the expensive pricing of some courses. These folks have been locked in the unreal world of TM culture for so long, they don't really know how these policies and practices come across. This oversight, combined with a present-day policy that says and enforces just that, could probably be seen as constituting fraud on the part of the TMO. My bet is if anyone has the balls to file such a lawsuit, you could find any number of lawyers willing to take it on. Heck, ACLU lawyers would probably do it for free. And my bet is that if such a suit were filed, the policy would go away overnight. There is no way that the TMO could conceivably win such a suit, and they'd be terrified to allow it to reach court, and thus the eyes and ears of the press and potential big-name shills like Oprah and Ellen. Yes, the policy would go overnight. It is already clear, that to the TMO, not the single sidha/governor matters, who sits in the dome and has just seen a saint. No, it is the talking about it, that matters to them. If you lie and keep quiet, you are a good boy/girl, the problem is really the effect it has on the others, who get to know about it. They are fearing this kind of collective thing. But then, if they could be more liberal, more grandious, more self-aware, they would do much better. I doubt this will be the case, and nobody on the top position has the guts to change anything. They are busy, but they just keep themselves busy like any administration.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: More proactively, it seems to me that this would be the basis for a successful class action lawsuit. *No one* was ever told before learning the TM-Sidhis (a *huge* component of which is being able to practice them in a group) that they would be banned from such groups if they saw other spiritual teachers. I don't know about american law,and if this constitutes a fraud in the eyes of the law. But if anyone wants to sue the TM for this, they better hurry up, as long as there is still a TMO around. I don't know if the leading class of the TMO knows how late it is. Fast, very fast the current administration is approching ultimate nirvana, with not much coming behind.Think 10 or 15 years ahead of time, there won't be much of the TMO left, there are very few youngsters, and - well the school kids, but exactly where will they be, and how much they will stand behind the whole project has to be still seen. Therefore, to make TM again acceptable to a broader audience is not an issue that has a lot of time to wait for. I am not saying, that if you resolve the whole saint issue, the TM movement will be saved, of course not. But it is one of those symptomatic things, where the TMO has to change, in order to be again more accessable, and less cultish, if it wants to ever survive. This oversight, combined with a present-day policy that says and enforces just that, could probably be seen as constituting fraud on the part of the TMO. My bet is if anyone has the balls to file such a lawsuit, you could find any number of lawyers willing to take it on. Heck, ACLU lawyers would probably do it for free. And my bet is that if such a suit were filed, the policy would go away overnight. There is no way that the TMO could conceivably win such a suit, and they'd be terrified to allow it to reach court, and thus the eyes and ears of the press and potential big-name shills like Oprah and Ellen. Yes, the policy would go overnight. It is already clear, that to the TMO, not the single sidha/governor matters, who sits in the dome and has just seen a saint. No, it is the talking about it, that matters to them. If you lie and keep quiet, you are a good boy/girl, the problem is really the effect it has on the others, who get to know about it. They are fearing this kind of collective thing. But then, if they could be more liberal, more grandious, more self-aware, they would do much better. I doubt this will be the case, and nobody on the top position has the guts to change anything. They are busy, but they just keep themselves busy like any administration.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
Yup, that would be a 'Meditator Spring' thawing of the Rajas. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: More proactively, it seems to me that this would be the basis for a successful class action lawsuit. *No one* was ever told before learning the TM-Sidhis (a *huge* component of which is being able to practice them in a group) that they would be banned from such groups if they saw other spiritual teachers. I don't know about american law,and if this constitutes a fraud in the eyes of the law. But if anyone wants to sue the TM for this, they better hurry up, as long as there is still a TMO around. I don't know if the leading class of the TMO knows how late it is. Fast, very fast the current administration is approching ultimate nirvana, with not much coming behind.Think 10 or 15 years ahead of time, there won't be much of the TMO left, there are very few youngsters, and - well the school kids, but exactly where will they be, and how much they will stand behind the whole project has to be still seen. Therefore, to make TM again acceptable to a broader audience is not an issue that has a lot of time to wait for. I am not saying, that if you resolve the whole saint issue, the TM movement will be saved, of course not. But it is one of those symptomatic things, where the TMO has to change, in order to be again more accessable, and less cultish, if it wants to ever survive. Yes, time is very limited for the TMO. They would also need to change other things. If they want to bring in new and somewhat normal younger people to the practice of TM, I think they would have to do away with the whole raja and crowns thing as well. Also the expensive pricing of some courses. These folks have been locked in the unreal world of TM culture for so long, they don't really know how these policies and practices come across. This oversight, combined with a present-day policy that says and enforces just that, could probably be seen as constituting fraud on the part of the TMO. My bet is if anyone has the balls to file such a lawsuit, you could find any number of lawyers willing to take it on. Heck, ACLU lawyers would probably do it for free. And my bet is that if such a suit were filed, the policy would go away overnight. There is no way that the TMO could conceivably win such a suit, and they'd be terrified to allow it to reach court, and thus the eyes and ears of the press and potential big-name shills like Oprah and Ellen. Yes, the policy would go overnight. It is already clear, that to the TMO, not the single sidha/governor matters, who sits in the dome and has just seen a saint. No, it is the talking about it, that matters to them. If you lie and keep quiet, you are a good boy/girl, the problem is really the effect it has on the others, who get to know about it. They are fearing this kind of collective thing. But then, if they could be more liberal, more grandious, more self-aware, they would do much better. I doubt this will be the case, and nobody on the top position has the guts to change anything. They are busy, but they just keep themselves busy like any administration.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@... wrote: Yes, time is very limited for the TMO. They would also need to change other things. If they want to bring in new and somewhat normal younger people to the practice of TM, I think they would have to do away with the whole raja and crowns thing as well. Also the expensive pricing of some courses. These folks have been locked in the unreal world of TM culture for so long, they don't really know how these policies and practices come across. O'Great Being, O'Susan Who Knows Everything, May You Alone Rule All Spiritual Organizations Now and For Eternity !
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: Yes, time is very limited for the TMO. They would also need to change other things. If they want to bring in new and somewhat normal younger people to the practice of TM, I think they would have to do away with the whole raja and crowns thing as well. Also the expensive pricing of some courses. These folks have been locked in the unreal world of TM culture for so long, they don't really know how these policies and practices come across. O'Great Being, O'Susan Who Knows Everything, May You Alone Rule All Spiritual Organizations Now and For Eternity ! Nabby, I know you have a knack for old outdated organizations, but would you also like to offer Susan Chair International?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
United be your purpose, harmonious be your feelings, collected be your mind, in the same way as all the various aspects of the universe exist in togetherness, wholeness. -U.S. Buck, in FF These TM Rajas, they should be apologizing to and asking for forgiveness from the community. All those ones on the stage at that meeting. Nadar-raam too. Yep, particularly those two Purusha Raja, Alex's brother and those large ones from Vedic City too on Maharaja's left and that over-stuffed Prime Minister one and those MUM people on Maharaja's right. These people in particular are in the way of World Peace on this. Something's got to change with them. We are all being held hostage by them. Yeah, it is a bad corrosive policy with only poor success that they have had with the dome numbers. These TM-Rajas, they are completely holding back World Peace. Given the quite strong and substantial peer-review science on all this, it would seem these Raja evidently are holding back World Peace with their anti-saint dome policy done this way they do. These poor dome numbers here have long been the problem of this policy they are keeping. It is a shame and a time is come to change it. En lieu it would not be a bad thing to prosecute them all for crimes against humanity at the World Court of International Justice in the Hague. Their own research on meditating groups coupled with their miserable dome numbers would convict them. It is a sad case. A crime. The domes are full of people right now who have visited saints. Yep, evidently the Rajas have produced two domes full of liars. That is a bad feeling there as in, not a good feeling to have there underneath. These TM Rajas, that large Prime Minister in particular, push people to lie, hide and kiss ass to stay in the domes. I interviewed a person recently who was on the Mother Divine program, she remarked that to survive on Mother Divine they would all lie, hide and kiss-ass about this. In people's life the TM anti-saint policy is quite without conscience for people to participate. The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yes, it is really quite incredible that these TM Rajas should even be going against Guru Dev's very certain spiritual advice to make use of our time on earth particularly by being with saints. Oh Please! They are not going against Guru Dev, they are trying to follow the guidelines set up by Maharishi himself long ago. Now, leave Guru Dev out of this, we don't know what he would have said. MMY was entirely clear about all of this and never ever budged from his position. Maharishi was clear, at times. This policy, I know, has consolitated during the final period of his life, but it wasn't always the same. And Maharishi could make exceptions to this rule, as I already said, for example in Lelystad. I don't blame you if you don't know that, but he did budge from his position. But in setting up 'rules', he would have to teach the administration, and usually was strong about it, I agree. The Rajas have to decide to make changes that MMY never did He did. The rules before were different (for example before the Muktananda event), and he would make exceptions himself. Now, maybe Maharishi would have changed this rule by now, but don't blame the Rajas or anyone else. This rule came from Maharishi and he was BLUNT about it. I am sure he was blunt to the administration. Yet, as you say
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
Integrated is the expression of knowledge, an assembly is significant in unity, united are their minds while full of desires. For you , I make use of the integrated expression of knowledge. By virtue of unitedness and by means of that which remains to be united, I perform action to generate wholeness of life. United be your purpose, harmonious be your feelings, collected be your mind, in the same way as all the various aspects of the universe exist in togetherness, wholeness. -U.S. Buck, in FF These TM Rajas, they should be apologizing to and asking for forgiveness from the community. All those ones on the stage at that meeting. Nadar-raam too. Yep, particularly those two Purusha Raja, Alex's brother and those large ones from Vedic City too on Maharaja's left and that over-stuffed Prime Minister one and those MUM people on Maharaja's right. These people in particular are in the way of World Peace on this. Something's got to change with them. We are all being held hostage by them. Yeah, it is a bad corrosive policy with only poor success that they have had with the dome numbers. These TM-Rajas, they are completely holding back World Peace. Given the quite strong and substantial peer-review science on all this, it would seem these Raja evidently are holding back World Peace with their anti-saint dome policy done this way they do. These poor dome numbers here have long been the problem of this policy they are keeping. It is a shame and a time is come to change it. En lieu it would not be a bad thing to prosecute them all for crimes against humanity at the World Court of International Justice in the Hague. Their own research on meditating groups coupled with their miserable dome numbers would convict them. It is a sad case. A crime. The domes are full of people right now who have visited saints. Yep, evidently the Rajas have produced two domes full of liars. That is a bad feeling there as in, not a good feeling to have there underneath. These TM Rajas, that large Prime Minister in particular, push people to lie, hide and kiss ass to stay in the domes. I interviewed a person recently who was on the Mother Divine program, she remarked that to survive on Mother Divine they would all lie, hide and kiss-ass about this. In people's life the TM anti-saint policy is quite without conscience for people to participate. The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yes, it is really quite incredible that these TM Rajas should even be going against Guru Dev's very certain spiritual advice to make use of our time on earth particularly by being with saints. Oh Please! They are not going against Guru Dev, they are trying to follow the guidelines set up by Maharishi himself long ago. Now, leave Guru Dev out of this, we don't know what he would have said. MMY was entirely clear about all of this and never ever budged from his position. Maharishi was clear, at times. This policy, I know, has consolitated during the final period of his life, but it wasn't always the same. And Maharishi could make exceptions to this rule, as I already said, for example in Lelystad. I don't blame you if you don't know that, but he did budge from his position. But in setting up 'rules', he would have to teach the administration, and usually was strong about it, I agree. The Rajas have to decide to make changes that MMY never did He did. The
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
Go together, speak together, know your minds to be functioning together from a common source, in the same manner as the impulses of creative intelligence, in the beginning, remain together united near the source. Integrated is the expression of knowledge, an assembly is significant in unity, united are their minds while full of desires. For you , I make use of the integrated expression of knowledge. By virtue of unitedness and by means of that which remains to be united, I perform action to generate wholeness of life. United be your purpose, harmonious be your feelings, collected be your mind, in the same way as all the various aspects of the universe exist in togetherness, wholeness. -U.S. Buck, in FF These TM Rajas, they should be apologizing to and asking for forgiveness from the community. All those ones on the stage at that meeting. Nadar-raam too. Yep, particularly those two Purusha Raja, Alex's brother and those large ones from Vedic City too on Maharaja's left and that over-stuffed Prime Minister one and those MUM people on Maharaja's right. These people in particular are in the way of World Peace on this. Something's got to change with them. We are all being held hostage by them. Yeah, it is a bad corrosive policy with only poor success that they have had with the dome numbers. These TM-Rajas, they are completely holding back World Peace. Given the quite strong and substantial peer-review science on all this, it would seem these Raja evidently are holding back World Peace with their anti-saint dome policy done this way they do. These poor dome numbers here have long been the problem of this policy they are keeping. It is a shame and a time is come to change it. En lieu it would not be a bad thing to prosecute them all for crimes against humanity at the World Court of International Justice in the Hague. Their own research on meditating groups coupled with their miserable dome numbers would convict them. It is a sad case. A crime. The domes are full of people right now who have visited saints. Yep, evidently the Rajas have produced two domes full of liars. That is a bad feeling there as in, not a good feeling to have there underneath. These TM Rajas, that large Prime Minister in particular, push people to lie, hide and kiss ass to stay in the domes. I interviewed a person recently who was on the Mother Divine program, she remarked that to survive on Mother Divine they would all lie, hide and kiss-ass about this. In people's life the TM anti-saint policy is quite without conscience for people to participate. The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yes, it is really quite incredible that these TM Rajas should even be going against Guru Dev's very certain spiritual advice to make use of our time on earth particularly by being with saints. Oh Please! They are not going against Guru Dev, they are trying to follow the guidelines set up by Maharishi himself long ago. Now, leave Guru Dev out of this, we don't know what he would have said. MMY was entirely clear about all of this and never ever budged from his position. Maharishi was clear, at times. This policy, I know, has consolitated during the final period of his life, but it wasn't always the same. And Maharishi could make exceptions to this rule, as I already said, for example in Lelystad. I don't
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
The immediate urgent priority for world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. Go together, speak together, know your minds to be functioning together from a common source, in the same manner as the impulses of creative intelligence, in the beginning, remain together united near the source. Integrated is the expression of knowledge, an assembly is significant in unity, united are their minds while full of desires. For you , I make use of the integrated expression of knowledge. By virtue of unitedness and by means of that which remains to be united, I perform action to generate wholeness of life. United be your purpose, harmonious be your feelings, collected be your mind, in the same way as all the various aspects of the universe exist in togetherness, wholeness. These TM Rajas, they should be apologizing to and asking for forgiveness from the community. All those ones on the stage at that meeting. Nadar-raam too. Yep, particularly those two Purusha Raja, Alex's brother and those large ones from Vedic City too on Maharaja's left and that over-stuffed Prime Minister one and those MUM people on Maharaja's right. These people in particular are in the way of World Peace on this. Something's got to change with them. We are all being held hostage by them. Yeah, it is a bad corrosive policy with only poor success that they have had with the dome numbers. These TM-Rajas, they are completely holding back World Peace. Given the quite strong and substantial peer-review science on all this, it would seem these Raja evidently are holding back World Peace with their anti-saint dome policy done this way they do. These poor dome numbers here have long been the problem of this policy they are keeping. It is a shame and a time is come to change it. En lieu it would not be a bad thing to prosecute them all for crimes against humanity at the World Court of International Justice in the Hague. Their own research on meditating groups coupled with their miserable dome numbers would convict them. It is a sad case. A crime. The domes are full of people right now who have visited saints. Yep, evidently the Rajas have produced two domes full of liars. That is a bad feeling there as in, not a good feeling to have there underneath. These TM Rajas, that large Prime Minister in particular, push people to lie, hide and kiss ass to stay in the domes. I interviewed a person recently who was on the Mother Divine program, she remarked that to survive on Mother Divine they would all lie, hide and kiss-ass about this. In people's life the TM anti-saint policy is quite without conscience for people to participate. The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yes, it is really quite incredible that these TM Rajas should even be going against Guru Dev's very certain spiritual advice to make use of our time on earth particularly by being with saints. Oh Please! They are not going against Guru Dev, they are trying to follow the guidelines set up by Maharishi himself long ago. Now, leave Guru Dev out of this, we don't know what he would have said. MMY was entirely clear about all of this
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
The immediate urgent priority for world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. Go together, speak together, know your minds to be functioning together from a common source, in the same manner as the impulses of creative intelligence, in the beginning, remain together united near the source. Integrated is the expression of knowledge, an assembly is significant in unity, united are their minds while full of desires. For you , I make use of the integrated expression of knowledge. By virtue of unitedness and by means of that which remains to be united, I perform action to generate wholeness of life. United be your purpose, harmonious be your feelings, collected be your mind, in the same way as all the various aspects of the universe exist in togetherness, wholeness. The TM Rajas should get on board. These TM Rajas, they should be apologizing to and asking for forgiveness from the community. All those ones on the stage at that meeting. Nadar-raam too. Yep, particularly those two Purusha Raja, Alex's brother and those large ones from Vedic City too on Maharaja's left and that over-stuffed Prime Minister one and those MUM people on Maharaja's right. These people in particular are in the way of World Peace on this. Something's got to change with them. We are all being held hostage by them. Yeah, it is a bad corrosive policy with only poor success that they have had with the dome numbers. These TM-Rajas, they are completely holding back World Peace. Given the quite strong and substantial peer-review science on all this, it would seem these Raja evidently are holding back World Peace with their anti-saint dome policy done this way they do. These poor dome numbers here have long been the problem of this policy they are keeping. It is a shame and a time is come to change it. En lieu it would not be a bad thing to prosecute them all for crimes against humanity at the World Court of International Justice in the Hague. Their own research on meditating groups coupled with their miserable dome numbers would convict them. It is a sad case. A crime. The domes are full of people right now who have visited saints. Yep, evidently the Rajas have produced two domes full of liars. That is a bad feeling there as in, not a good feeling to have there underneath. These TM Rajas, that large Prime Minister in particular, push people to lie, hide and kiss ass to stay in the domes. I interviewed a person recently who was on the Mother Divine program, she remarked that to survive on Mother Divine they would all lie, hide and kiss-ass about this. In people's life the TM anti-saint policy is quite without conscience for people to participate. The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yes, it is really quite incredible that these TM Rajas should even be going against Guru Dev's very certain spiritual advice to make use of our time on earth particularly by being with saints. Oh Please! They are not going against Guru Dev, they are trying to follow the guidelines set up by Maharishi himself long ago. Now, leave
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
Well then, it sounds like there is far more flexibility than the complaints have lead me to believe. L. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: As has been said before, many times, Maharishi himself is the person who established this link between seeing other saints or teachers and being banned from TM courses and Domes and advanced programs. This is true and cannot be denied. But it is also true that Maharishi had several policies with this regard over the time, for example Muktananda was even invited to Seelisberg, he also send many people to see saints in the past, not just to Anandamayi Ma and Lakshmanjoo. And even when his policy hardened, he kept it still liberal at certain places, like in Lelystad, Holland, where he gave siddhas explicit permission to see Mother Meera for example, something that led to being banned in Skelmersdale at the same time. And it is also true, that he said, that a governor can do anything, he should just keep his mouth shut about it. And then finally the Rajas are okay if Sidhas go to the Dome who saw other saints, unless they are involved in organizing for them, and unless they are teachers (albeit even inactive ones).
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: Well then, it sounds like there is far more flexibility than the complaints have lead me to believe. Lawson, just as a question, how can you possibly justify any *lack* of flexibility, or the banning process at all? I mean, the only even semi-rational reason anyone has ever given for it is that some are afraid (and afraid IS the right word) that people could possibly practice Some Other Technique while in the domes. So here's the question -- do you think that would actually *affect* anything? You and others have been very vocal in the past about TM's bestness and most effectiveness as a technique of meditation; ditto for the TM-Sidhis. In a fairly recent presentation, one TM bigwig went so far as to claim (complete with LED visual aid...LEDs must be a big thing lately) that individual meditators' thoughts while practicing the Sidhis were 10,000 times more power- ful than normal people's thoughts. So you're afraid that one or two people practicing some lesser technique in the domes is gonna fuck up all that Woo Woo? Seems to me if that were the fear, they'd have to have ten thousand evildoers practicing something else to interfere with the powerful Woo Woo of each TM-Sidhi practitioner, right? Bottom line is that you are justifying the unjustifiable. Neither the TMO nor anyone else has the right to tell people what to believe and who they can visit as spiritual teachers. This policy is a technique used *by the fearful* to make others afraid and control them. *Especially* if Maharishi regularly made exceptions to his own ill- conceived rule when he was alive. The other bottom line is that if people about to take the TM-Sidhi course were told *in advance* that they would never again be allowed to see any other spiritual teacher and still participate in the group practice of the Sidhis, no one would sign up. They'd take one look at the policy, murmur Cult under their breath, and walk away. It takes a real, case-hardened cultist to either accept the policy, or justify it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: As has been said before, many times, Maharishi himself is the person who established this link between seeing other saints or teachers and being banned from TM courses and Domes and advanced programs. This is true and cannot be denied. But it is also true that Maharishi had several policies with this regard over the time, for example Muktananda was even invited to Seelisberg, he also send many people to see saints in the past, not just to Anandamayi Ma and Lakshmanjoo. And even when his policy hardened, he kept it still liberal at certain places, like in Lelystad, Holland, where he gave siddhas explicit permission to see Mother Meera for example, something that led to being banned in Skelmersdale at the same time. And it is also true, that he said, that a governor can do anything, he should just keep his mouth shut about it. And then finally the Rajas are okay if Sidhas go to the Dome who saw other saints, unless they are involved in organizing for them, and unless they are teachers (albeit even inactive ones).
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: Well then, it sounds like there is far more flexibility than the complaints have lead me to believe. Lawson, just as a question, how can you possibly justify any *lack* of flexibility, or the banning process at all? I mean, the only even semi-rational reason anyone has ever given for it is that some are afraid (and afraid IS the right word) that people could possibly practice Some Other Technique while in the domes. So here's the question -- do you think that would actually *affect* anything? You and others have been very vocal in the past about TM's bestness and most effectiveness as a technique of meditation; ditto for the TM-Sidhis. In a fairly recent presentation, one TM bigwig went so far as to claim (complete with LED visual aid...LEDs must be a big thing lately) that individual meditators' thoughts while practicing the Sidhis were 10,000 times more power- ful than normal people's thoughts. So you're afraid that one or two people practicing some lesser technique in the domes is gonna fuck up all that Woo Woo? Seems to me if that were the fear, they'd have to have ten thousand evildoers practicing something else to interfere with the powerful Woo Woo of each TM-Sidhi practitioner, right? Bottom line is that you are justifying the unjustifiable. Neither the TMO nor anyone else has the right to tell people what to believe and who they can visit as spiritual teachers. This policy is a technique used *by the fearful* to make others afraid and control them. *Especially* if Maharishi regularly made exceptions to his own ill- conceived rule when he was alive. The other bottom line is that if people about to take the TM-Sidhi course were told *in advance* that they would never again be allowed to see any other spiritual teacher and still participate in the group practice of the Sidhis, no one would sign up. They'd take one look at the policy, murmur Cult under their breath, and walk away. It takes a real, case-hardened cultist to either accept the policy, or justify it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: As has been said before, many times, Maharishi himself is the person who established this link between seeing other saints or teachers and being banned from TM courses and Domes and advanced programs. This is true and cannot be denied. But it is also true that Maharishi had several policies with this regard over the time, for example Muktananda was even invited to Seelisberg, he also send many people to see saints in the past, not just to Anandamayi Ma and Lakshmanjoo. And even when his policy hardened, he kept it still liberal at certain places, like in Lelystad, Holland, where he gave siddhas explicit permission to see Mother Meera for example, something that led to being banned in Skelmersdale at the same time. And it is also true, that he said, that a governor can do anything, he should just keep his mouth shut about it. And then finally the Rajas are okay if Sidhas go to the Dome who saw other saints, unless they are involved in organizing for them, and unless they are teachers (albeit even inactive ones). Many of the people who practice TM and I know of a few who were told by other Saints, or Holy people, to go to the Maharishi, way back in the pre beatle days. This has not stopped any of them from going into the domes or getting dome badges? I agree with Turq, especially on the last paragraph, I never heard of anyone being banished when I got instructions for meditations. That would constitute the, cult, word. The practicing of the TM-Sidhi's is supposed to be innocent. Also, one is supposed to go about their business as usual, just incorporating the program into one's daily routine. Let's keep it that way and occupy the domes! Right, Buck? St. Nicholas hats to the domes, I say!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
Haha. RD, reindeer humping on Santa's legs. LOL --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, obbajeeba no_reply@ wrote: You are Buck, not Rudolph. I called you Buck. I see no reason to be mean to you. : ) You are doing great work. ps. I have not ever had a dome badge taken from me. That was fabricated for the story below as in support of those who need one. The only Saint that I have ever seen in life and I sat on his lap as a child quite a few times, and at few adult Xmas parties later on (Dirty Santa) is Saint Nicholas. : ) Now where is the Lone Zombie Zebra... Caught on tape: obbajeeba gives Dirty Santa a lap dance. You go girl! http://youtu.be/lHDsy0pjySU --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: It is a truth. Buck is correct. Buck is not a renegade. Buck is calling Santa out. Santa finally notices, Rudolph's nose shines so brightly, Won't you guide my sleigh tonight? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3z1iOvXpeY Obba, well I've been called a lot of mean things but nobody never called me 'a red-nosed reindeer'. Great video though, I like its parallels to the story of this on-going anti-saint theme of exclusion by the TM Rajas. Thanks for noticing. A primitive and old meditator, -Buck in FF --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, obbajeeba no_reply@ wrote: Exactly. Listen to this scenario here: A poor student learning TM in their school through the David Lynch Foundation, who may have parents or a Rich Aunt or Uncle, who may meditate another practice. Then one day, the student as a student finds out about these other techniques available and discusses them with the family members. Then maybe the student goes and listens to chants and such, presented differently by these other places of higher knowledge, that higher knowledge being something the student had not heard of before. When the student decides to go back and take the TM-Sidhi's and is asked about seeking Saints, etc., will that student be turned down the teachings? Or, what if the student went from learning TM in the public school right to MUM and learns the TM-Sidhi's, goes on a holiday break to see relatives, finds out his relatives practice another technique or such, Saint searching the globe, does this mean when the student returns to MUM, and speaks about his gathered experiences, he/she may be turned down a dome badge? These policies have to change if TM is going to expect to reach millions of students elsewhere, because these are not far fetched scenarios. If anyone thinks it is such a rarity, than one has lived a boxed sheltered life. Maybe can't see past the foundations of tax deduction purposes. It is a truth. Buck is correct. Buck is not a renegade. Buck is calling Santa out. Santa finally notices, Rudolph's nose shines so brightly, Won't you guide my sleigh tonight? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3z1iOvXpeY ALL AMERICAN CHILDREN WORSHIP A SAINT,whether they are Christian or not, because he brings lot's of gifts. These children would technically not qualify for a dome badge. Period. End of story. Saint Nicholas is my hero. I bow to St. Nicholas. Can I please have my dome badge back? This is my Christmas wish and don your St. Nicholas caps and occupy the domes, cuz this Saint ain't going away, anytime soon. Jai Guru Dev. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yep, they could always just ask that people only practice TM in the domes and go from there Otherwise they will always be excluding people who could be in there helping with the dome numbers. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. And there is a belief/concern that people who are sitting with the saints are learning new practices that they will bring with them and practice in the Domes instead of the official TM and TM-Sidhis program. Do you understand that this is what the policy is meant to address? L. Yep, the
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, obbajeeba no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: Bottom line is that you are justifying the unjustifiable. Neither the TMO nor anyone else has the right to tell people what to believe and who they can visit as spiritual teachers. This policy is a technique used *by the fearful* to make others afraid and control them. *Especially* if Maharishi regularly made exceptions to his own ill- conceived rule when he was alive. The other bottom line is that if people about to take the TM-Sidhi course were told *in advance* that they would never again be allowed to see any other spiritual teacher and still participate in the group practice of the Sidhis, no one would sign up. They'd take one look at the policy, murmur Cult under their breath, and walk away. It takes a real, case-hardened cultist to either accept the policy, or justify it. I agree with Turq, especially on the last paragraph, I never heard of anyone being banished when I got instructions for meditations. That would constitute the, cult, word. The practicing of the TM-Sidhi's is supposed to be innocent. Also, one is supposed to go about their business as usual, just incorporating the program into one's daily routine. Let's keep it that way and occupy the domes! Right, Buck? More proactively, it seems to me that this would be the basis for a successful class action lawsuit. *No one* was ever told before learning the TM-Sidhis (a *huge* component of which is being able to practice them in a group) that they would be banned from such groups if they saw other spiritual teachers. This oversight, combined with a present-day policy that says and enforces just that, could probably be seen as constituting fraud on the part of the TMO. My bet is if anyone has the balls to file such a lawsuit, you could find any number of lawyers willing to take it on. Heck, ACLU lawyers would probably do it for free. And my bet is that if such a suit were filed, the policy would go away overnight. There is no way that the TMO could conceivably win such a suit, and they'd be terrified to allow it to reach court, and thus the eyes and ears of the press and potential big-name shills like Oprah and Ellen.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, obbajeeba no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: Bottom line is that you are justifying the unjustifiable. Neither the TMO nor anyone else has the right to tell people what to believe and who they can visit as spiritual teachers. This policy is a technique used *by the fearful* to make others afraid and control them. *Especially* if Maharishi regularly made exceptions to his own ill- conceived rule when he was alive. The other bottom line is that if people about to take the TM-Sidhi course were told *in advance* that they would never again be allowed to see any other spiritual teacher and still participate in the group practice of the Sidhis, no one would sign up. They'd take one look at the policy, murmur Cult under their breath, and walk away. It takes a real, case-hardened cultist to either accept the policy, or justify it. I agree with Turq, especially on the last paragraph, I never heard of anyone being banished when I got instructions for meditations. That would constitute the, cult, word. The practicing of the TM-Sidhi's is supposed to be innocent. Also, one is supposed to go about their business as usual, just incorporating the program into one's daily routine. Let's keep it that way and occupy the domes! Right, Buck? More proactively, it seems to me that this would be the basis for a successful class action lawsuit. *No one* was ever told before learning the TM-Sidhis (a *huge* component of which is being able to practice them in a group) that they would be banned from such groups if they saw other spiritual teachers. This oversight, combined with a present-day policy that says and enforces just that, could probably be seen as constituting fraud on the part of the TMO. My bet is if anyone has the balls to file such a lawsuit, you could find any number of lawyers willing to take it on. Heck, ACLU lawyers would probably do it for free. And my bet is that if such a suit were filed, the policy would go away overnight. There is no way that the TMO could conceivably win such a suit, and they'd be terrified to allow it to reach court, and thus the eyes and ears of the press and potential big-name shills like Oprah and Ellen. shills like Oprah and Ellen. LMAO You are on to something very big here, Turq. 501c3 status, foundations, corporations...this will work! The only way they could get out of it, is if they domes were to house a controlled group, for scientific purposes, only. I have not ever been denied a dome badge, so I do not think I could qualify to bring such a suit, and I do understand many who are banned, may have only written a book about something Vedic, which is not trademarked information by the TMO. Hmm..You book writers, there is an answer and Turq came up with a very great suggestion. Get on it!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: Well then, it sounds like there is far more flexibility than the complaints have lead me to believe. Lawson, just as a question, how can you possibly justify any *lack* of flexibility, or the banning process at all? As far as I can tell, there's 2 interrelated issues: 1) they won't have accurate numbers to work with to see how close they are and to conduct their correlation studies with and 2) they're afraid that close association with people who used to be gung-ho will weaken the resolve of everyone else (or something along those lines). [...] Bottom line is that you are justifying the unjustifiable. Neither the TMO nor anyone else has the right to tell people what to believe and who they can visit as spiritual teachers. This policy is a technique used *by the fearful* to make others afraid and control them. *Especially* if Maharishi regularly made exceptions to his own ill- conceived rule when he was alive. It might or might not be ill-conceived, but since he made up the rule, presumably, then presumably he gets to make up the exceptions to the rule, also. The other bottom line is that if people about to take the TM-Sidhi course were told *in advance* that they would never again be allowed to see any other spiritual teacher and still participate in the group practice of the Sidhis, no one would sign up. They'd take one look at the policy, murmur Cult under their breath, and walk away. It takes a real, case-hardened cultist to either accept the policy, or justify it. Actually, in order to get accepted on the TM-Sidhis course in the first place, you had to make a pretty strong case that you believed that TM was the best thing out there, etc, or such is my recollection of the application process 25+ years ago. L
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
They're defending civil suits and criminal? They should be wise to just abandon their anti-saint policy. Defending that policy is just plain untenable in any court. -Buck --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, obbajeeba no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, obbajeeba no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: Bottom line is that you are justifying the unjustifiable. Neither the TMO nor anyone else has the right to tell people what to believe and who they can visit as spiritual teachers. This policy is a technique used *by the fearful* to make others afraid and control them. *Especially* if Maharishi regularly made exceptions to his own ill- conceived rule when he was alive. The other bottom line is that if people about to take the TM-Sidhi course were told *in advance* that they would never again be allowed to see any other spiritual teacher and still participate in the group practice of the Sidhis, no one would sign up. They'd take one look at the policy, murmur Cult under their breath, and walk away. It takes a real, case-hardened cultist to either accept the policy, or justify it. I agree with Turq, especially on the last paragraph, I never heard of anyone being banished when I got instructions for meditations. That would constitute the, cult, word. The practicing of the TM-Sidhi's is supposed to be innocent. Also, one is supposed to go about their business as usual, just incorporating the program into one's daily routine. Let's keep it that way and occupy the domes! Right, Buck? More proactively, it seems to me that this would be the basis for a successful class action lawsuit. *No one* was ever told before learning the TM-Sidhis (a *huge* component of which is being able to practice them in a group) that they would be banned from such groups if they saw other spiritual teachers. This oversight, combined with a present-day policy that says and enforces just that, could probably be seen as constituting fraud on the part of the TMO. My bet is if anyone has the balls to file such a lawsuit, you could find any number of lawyers willing to take it on. Heck, ACLU lawyers would probably do it for free. And my bet is that if such a suit were filed, the policy would go away overnight. There is no way that the TMO could conceivably win such a suit, and they'd be terrified to allow it to reach court, and thus the eyes and ears of the press and potential big-name shills like Oprah and Ellen. shills like Oprah and Ellen. LMAO You are on to something very big here, Turq. 501c3 status, foundations, corporations...this will work! The only way they could get out of it, is if they domes were to house a controlled group, for scientific purposes, only. I have not ever been denied a dome badge, so I do not think I could qualify to bring such a suit, and I do understand many who are banned, may have only written a book about something Vedic, which is not trademarked information by the TMO. Hmm..You book writers, there is an answer and Turq came up with a very great suggestion. Get on it!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
These TM Rajas, they should be apologizing to and asking for forgiveness from the community. All those ones on the stage at that meeting. Nadar-raam too. Yep, particularly those two Purusha Raja, Alex's brother and those large ones from Vedic City too on Maharaja's left and that over-stuffed Prime Minister one and those MUM people on Maharaja's right. These people in particular are in the way of World Peace on this. Something's got to change with them. We are all being held hostage by them. Yeah, it is a bad corrosive policy with only poor success that they have had with the dome numbers. These TM-Rajas, they are completely holding back World Peace. Given the quite strong and substantial peer-review science on all this, it would seem these Raja evidently are holding back World Peace with their anti-saint dome policy done this way they do. These poor dome numbers here have long been the problem of this policy they are keeping. It is a shame and a time is come to change it. En lieu it would not be a bad thing to prosecute them all for crimes against humanity at the World Court of International Justice in the Hague. Their own research on meditating groups coupled with their miserable dome numbers would convict them. It is a sad case. A crime. The domes are full of people right now who have visited saints. Yep, evidently the Rajas have produced two domes full of liars. That is a bad feeling there as in, not a good feeling to have there underneath. These TM Rajas, that large Prime Minister in particular, push people to lie, hide and kiss ass to stay in the domes. I interviewed a person recently who was on the Mother Divine program, she remarked that to survive on Mother Divine they would all lie, hide and kiss-ass about this. In people's life the TM anti-saint policy is quite without conscience for people to participate. The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yes, it is really quite incredible that these TM Rajas should even be going against Guru Dev's very certain spiritual advice to make use of our time on earth particularly by being with saints. Oh Please! They are not going against Guru Dev, they are trying to follow the guidelines set up by Maharishi himself long ago. Now, leave Guru Dev out of this, we don't know what he would have said. MMY was entirely clear about all of this and never ever budged from his position. Maharishi was clear, at times. This policy, I know, has consolitated during the final period of his life, but it wasn't always the same. And Maharishi could make exceptions to this rule, as I already said, for example in Lelystad. I don't blame you if you don't know that, but he did budge from his position. But in setting up 'rules', he would have to teach the administration, and usually was strong about it, I agree. The Rajas have to decide to make changes that MMY never did He did. The rules before were different (for example before the Muktananda event), and he would make exceptions himself. Now, maybe Maharishi would have changed this rule by now, but don't blame the Rajas or anyone else. This rule came from Maharishi and he was BLUNT about it. I am sure he was blunt to the administration. Yet, as you say yourself, it may be time for a change. The Rajas had no problem skipping the always-wear-a-crown thing, or inviting Beatles back, and even more so, use them for publicity, something unthinkable when Maharishi was still alive. And they even loosened the saints rule a bit, don't forget, but what I
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. And there is a belief/concern that people who are sitting with the saints are learning new practices that they will bring with them and practice in the Domes instead of the official TM and TM-Sidhis program. Do you understand that this is what the policy is meant to address? L. Yep, the Raja guideline in response in application is way too rough on on the numbers. You and the Rajas could also have more faith in people.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
Yep, they could always just ask that people only practice TM in the domes and go from there Otherwise they will always be excluding people who could be in there helping with the dome numbers. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. And there is a belief/concern that people who are sitting with the saints are learning new practices that they will bring with them and practice in the Domes instead of the official TM and TM-Sidhis program. Do you understand that this is what the policy is meant to address? L. Yep, the Raja guideline in response in application is way too rough on on the numbers. You and the Rajas could also have more faith in people.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
These dang TM-Rajas here could also have a little more faith in people and simply ask that people only do TM in the dome for this project. Right now the TM Rajas are ruling people out of the domes who could be helping. Their guideline is way too aggravating and corrosive of the whole situation here. It is way too heavy-handed with a blunder-bus. They are just shooting out of some fear. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Yep, they could always just ask that people only practice TM in the domes and go from there Otherwise they will always be excluding people who could be in there helping with the dome numbers. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. And there is a belief/concern that people who are sitting with the saints are learning new practices that they will bring with them and practice in the Domes instead of the official TM and TM-Sidhis program. Do you understand that this is what the policy is meant to address? L. Yep, the Raja guideline in response in application is way too rough on on the numbers. You and the Rajas could also have more faith in people.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
. For years in execution they've shot themselves in the foot with bad publicity in the meditating community around this. How the TM-Rajas have chosen to see it is the problem. They could change that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: These dang TM-Rajas here could also have a little more faith in people and simply ask that people only do TM in the dome for this project. Right now the TM Rajas are ruling people out of the domes who could be helping. Their guideline is way too aggravating and corrosive of the whole situation here. It is way too heavy-handed with a blunder-bus. They are just shooting out of some fear. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yep, they could always just ask that people only practice TM in the domes and go from there Otherwise they will always be excluding people who could be in there helping with the dome numbers. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. And there is a belief/concern that people who are sitting with the saints are learning new practices that they will bring with them and practice in the Domes instead of the official TM and TM-Sidhis program. Do you understand that this is what the policy is meant to address? L. Yep, the Raja guideline in response in application is way too rough on on the numbers. You and the Rajas could also have more faith in people.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
With their fear, they've shot way too many innocent people. It is just bad PR the way they do it. They got to look at their anti-saint policy differently. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: . For years in execution they've shot themselves in the foot with bad publicity in the meditating community around this. How the TM-Rajas have chosen to see it is the problem. They could change that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: These dang TM-Rajas here could also have a little more faith in people and simply ask that people only do TM in the dome for this project. Right now the TM Rajas are ruling people out of the domes who could be helping. Their guideline is way too aggravating and corrosive of the whole situation here. It is way too heavy-handed with a blunder-bus. They are just shooting out of some fear. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yep, they could always just ask that people only practice TM in the domes and go from there Otherwise they will always be excluding people who could be in there helping with the dome numbers. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. And there is a belief/concern that people who are sitting with the saints are learning new practices that they will bring with them and practice in the Domes instead of the official TM and TM-Sidhis program. Do you understand that this is what the policy is meant to address? L. Yep, the Raja guideline in response in application is way too rough on on the numbers. You and the Rajas could also have more faith in people.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: With their fear, they've shot way too many innocent people. It is just bad PR the way they do it. They got to look at their anti-saint policy differently. I hope you're not suggesting that they shoot the saints themselves. That might be considered even more of an overkill situation than banning those with a still-intact natural tendency of the mind to seek more. :-) That said, there *have* been death threats issued against competing spiritual teachers (I hesitate to use the word saints because I don't consider most of them to fall into that category) who were planning to visit Fairfield. One wonders what Oprah and Ellen would think of that if they knew about it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: . For years in execution they've shot themselves in the foot with bad publicity in the meditating community around this. How the TM-Rajas have chosen to see it is the problem. They could change that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: These dang TM-Rajas here could also have a little more faith in people and simply ask that people only do TM in the dome for this project. Right now the TM Rajas are ruling people out of the domes who could be helping. Their guideline is way too aggravating and corrosive of the whole situation here. It is way too heavy-handed with a blunder-bus. They are just shooting out of some fear. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yep, they could always just ask that people only practice TM in the domes and go from there Otherwise they will always be excluding people who could be in there helping with the dome numbers. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. And there is a belief/concern that people who are sitting with the saints are learning new practices that they will bring with them and practice in the Domes instead of the official TM and TM-Sidhis program. Do you understand that this is what the policy is meant to address? L. Yep, the Raja guideline in response in application is way too rough on on the numbers. You and the Rajas could also have more faith in people.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
Exactly. Listen to this scenario here: A poor student learning TM in their school through the David Lynch Foundation, who may have parents or a Rich Aunt or Uncle, who may meditate another practice. Then one day, the student as a student finds out about these other techniques available and discusses them with the family members. Then maybe the student goes and listens to chants and such, presented differently by these other places of higher knowledge, that higher knowledge being something the student had not heard of before. When the student decides to go back and take the TM-Sidhi's and is asked about seeking Saints, etc., will that student be turned down the teachings? Or, what if the student went from learning TM in the public school right to MUM and learns the TM-Sidhi's, goes on a holiday break to see relatives, finds out his relatives practice another technique or such, Saint searching the globe, does this mean when the student returns to MUM, and speaks about his gathered experiences, he/she may be turned down a dome badge? These policies have to change if TM is going to expect to reach millions of students elsewhere, because these are not far fetched scenarios. If anyone thinks it is such a rarity, than one has lived a boxed sheltered life. Maybe can't see past the foundations of tax deduction purposes. It is a truth. Buck is correct. Buck is not a renegade. Buck is calling Santa out. Santa finally notices, Rudolph's nose shines so brightly, Won't you guide my sleigh tonight? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3z1iOvXpeY ALL AMERICAN CHILDREN WORSHIP A SAINT,whether they are Christian or not, because he brings lot's of gifts. These children would technically not qualify for a dome badge. Period. End of story. Saint Nicholas is my hero. I bow to St. Nicholas. Can I please have my dome badge back? This is my Christmas wish and don your St. Nicholas caps and occupy the domes, cuz this Saint ain't going away, anytime soon. Jai Guru Dev. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Yep, they could always just ask that people only practice TM in the domes and go from there Otherwise they will always be excluding people who could be in there helping with the dome numbers. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. And there is a belief/concern that people who are sitting with the saints are learning new practices that they will bring with them and practice in the Domes instead of the official TM and TM-Sidhis program. Do you understand that this is what the policy is meant to address? L. Yep, the Raja guideline in response in application is way too rough on on the numbers. You and the Rajas could also have more faith in people.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
Darling Obbajeeba, I can't get rid of the hate in my heart, so please bear with me while I attack you without cause. Did you watch Ellen Degeneres open that David Lynch Foundation event? And did you read Bob Price's wife's post attempting to persuade Emily to start Transcendental Meditation? And do you recall when TM for you was the best thing goingbefore the 1980's, that is? (By the way, I am going to assume you are an initiator; if you are not then some of my comments here are not, for you, completely on the mark.) No one could see anything about Ellen Degeneres (or for that matter in Martin Scorsese's comments) or in 'Mrs. Price's' commentary which would imply any kind of influence over their own individualism and originality. TM is the most subtle and efficacious technique there is to produce a blissful experience, and the most subtle kind of changesalmost immediatelyin one's personal life. If you listen to Ellen read what Mrs. Price says in her post, you realize that TM, mechanically and efficaciously considered, beats any other spiritual technique in existenceI would even say (from an Eastern point of view) ever. The fact that in doing TM one does not change anything about oneself in terms of one's own values, beliefs, or life styleand Ellen when she extolled the benefits of TM was as convincing and persuasive as anyone could belikewise when 'Mrs Price' wrote her letter to Emilyis something without precedent. There is no 'technique' that I know of which is not wedded to some belief system in the very practising of that technique. Not so TM. Transcendental Meditation, therefore, in my opinion, obbajeeba, is sui generis, intrinsically unique, like nothing else. Doing TM does not resemble doing anything else. There isthis is my argument based upon empirical evidenceabsolutely no cross-pollination with any other technique or forms of meditation. In fact, I contend that whatever alternative spiritual tradition a former TMer turns toespecially a former initiatorhe or she will approach, and even practiseand evaluatethat new technique *entirely in terms of their pervious experience of Transcendental Meditation*. TM is not just different, obbajeeba; it is distinct and separate from everything else spiritually in existence. This is why Rick Archer always comes offto me at leastas so much more conversant with the religious forms of experience, with spiritual reality, with how to understand states of consciousness than any of his guests (except for the TM ones: like Phil Goldberg and Dana Sawyer). Despite turning from TM and Maharishi, his nervous system has been schooled in the TM-Maharishi-Guru Dev universe, and this shows through at every level of himself. Even as he now professes to have a more authentic religious experience through his relationship with Mata Amritanandamayi (Amma: the Hugging Saint) than he did with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Every one of us keen initiators, throughout the early and mid seventies, would have been nonplussed by any TM teacher trying to make the argument you make here. It wouldn't make sense to us. We did not just abide by what Maharishi had told us about guarding the purity of The Teaching; we felt it in our very soul. It was so manifestly clear to us that TM was something absolutely special, and could never be compared to anything that had been offered in our lifetime [our present one :-)] We acted on behalf of this notion of No Saints scrupulously, but not, as I say, out of deference to Maharishi; we could intuitively, deeply, feel the necessity of this. After all, what Master had produced the experience that Mother is at Home? What Master could allow us to confirm for ourselves that we were getting The Support of Nature? What other Master could deliver on his promise that once we became initiators, we could give to some other human being, a perfect stranger, this ultimate transcendent experience? The Checking Notes themselvesthe Checking Procedure as memorized and appliedare more dazzlingly and perfectly efficient than anything in existence. And there is no Master in our lifetime who systematically made teachers of this wisdom such that we could actually have the experience of tuning into the Holy Tradition, to having the experiences that previously were reserved for Hindus who sought silence in some Himalayan cave. Lookee here, obbajeeba: TM, Maharishi, becoming a TM Teacherall the advanced techniques that followed (including of course the Two Week Extension and the Sidhis)entailed participating in a certain metaphysical context within creation. And there is nothing nor ever will be anything just like TM and just like Maharishi (seen through our golden glasses as devout initiators). It is a very simple thing: the very moment Bevan relents on this policy, the floodgates will open and TM will dilute in its potency, and there will be a mystical mixture of substances which are not made to
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra no_reply@... wrote: Darling Obbajeeba, I can't get rid of the hate in my heart, so please bear with me while I attack you without cause. Did you watch Ellen Degeneres open that David Lynch Foundation event? And did you read Bob Price's wife's post attempting to persuade Emily to start Transcendental Meditation? And do you recall when TM for you was the best thing goingbefore the 1980's, that is? (By the way, I am going to assume you are an initiator; if you are not then some of my comments here are not, for you, completely on the mark.) No one could see anything about Ellen Degeneres (or for that matter in Martin Scorsese's comments) or in 'Mrs. Price's' commentary which would imply any kind of influence over their own individualism and originality. TM is the most subtle and efficacious technique there is to produce a blissful experience, and the most subtle kind of changesalmost immediatelyin one's personal life. If you listen to Ellen read what Mrs. Price says in her post, you realize that TM, mechanically and efficaciously considered, beats any other spiritual technique in existenceI would even say (from an Eastern point of view) ever. The fact that in doing TM one does not change anything about oneself in terms of one's own values, beliefs, or life styleand Ellen when she extolled the benefits of TM was as convincing and persuasive as anyone could belikewise when 'Mrs Price' wrote her letter to Emilyis something without precedent. There is no 'technique' that I know of which is not wedded to some belief system in the very practising of that technique. Not so TM. Transcendental Meditation, therefore, in my opinion, obbajeeba, is sui generis, intrinsically unique, like nothing else. Doing TM does not resemble doing anything else. There isthis is my argument based upon empirical evidenceabsolutely no cross-pollination with any other technique or forms of meditation. In fact, I contend that whatever alternative spiritual tradition a former TMer turns toespecially a former initiatorhe or she will approach, and even practiseand evaluatethat new technique *entirely in terms of their pervious experience of Transcendental Meditation*. TM is not just different, obbajeeba; it is distinct and separate from everything else spiritually in existence. This is why Rick Archer always comes offto me at leastas so much more conversant with the religious forms of experience, with spiritual reality, with how to understand states of consciousness than any of his guests (except for the TM ones: like Phil Goldberg and Dana Sawyer). Despite turning from TM and Maharishi, his nervous system has been schooled in the TM-Maharishi-Guru Dev universe, and this shows through at every level of himself. Even as he now professes to have a more authentic religious experience through his relationship with Mata Amritanandamayi (Amma: the Hugging Saint) than he did with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Every one of us keen initiators, throughout the early and mid seventies, would have been nonplussed by any TM teacher trying to make the argument you make here. It wouldn't make sense to us. We did not just abide by what Maharishi had told us about guarding the purity of The Teaching; we felt it in our very soul. It was so manifestly clear to us that TM was something absolutely special, and could never be compared to anything that had been offered in our lifetime [our present one :-)] We acted on behalf of this notion of No Saints scrupulously, but not, as I say, out of deference to Maharishi; we could intuitively, deeply, feel the necessity of this. After all, what Master had produced the experience that Mother is at Home? What Master could allow us to confirm for ourselves that we were getting The Support of Nature? What other Master could deliver on his promise that once we became initiators, we could give to some other human being, a perfect stranger, this ultimate transcendent experience? The Checking Notes themselvesthe Checking Procedure as memorized and appliedare more dazzlingly and perfectly efficient than anything in existence. And there is no Master in our lifetime who systematically made teachers of this wisdom such that we could actually have the experience of tuning into the Holy Tradition, to having the experiences that previously were reserved for Hindus who sought silence in some Himalayan cave. Lookee here, obbajeeba: TM, Maharishi, becoming a TM Teacherall the advanced techniques that followed (including of course the Two Week Extension and the Sidhis)entailed participating in a certain metaphysical context within creation. And there is nothing nor ever will be anything just like TM and just like Maharishi (seen through our golden glasses as devout initiators). It is a very simple thing: the very moment Bevan relents
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
Wow. If that's not the most disturbing, droolingly rabid TM True Believer post I've ever read, I don't know what is. Are you really that naive? Haven't you read any of the research on ACTUAL deep meditation? Doesn't the Catholic church have deprogrammers like we saw in The Exorcist or The Rite? Sheesh Robin, I didn't think there were any TB's left like this! Actually I remember YOU sending in MUM students to the dome to practice a different technique - so you have to have some understanding as to what that would do - although the rationale then was that they were invoking some demonic egregore, which you felt you could disrupt and confront. The ice cream of TM melted years ago. It's not our fault you never were able to wash your hands. On Dec 14, 2011, at 2:08 PM, maskedzebra wrote: Darling Obbajeeba, I can't get rid of the hate in my heart, so please bear with me while I attack you without cause. Did you watch Ellen Degeneres open that David Lynch Foundation event? And did you read Bob Price's wife's post attempting to persuade Emily to start Transcendental Meditation? And do you recall when TM for you was the best thing going—before the 1980's, that is? (By the way, I am going to assume you are an initiator; if you are not then some of my comments here are not, for you, completely on the mark.) No one could see anything about Ellen Degeneres (or for that matter in Martin Scorsese's comments) or in 'Mrs. Price's' commentary which would imply any kind of influence over their own individualism and originality. TM is the most subtle and efficacious technique there is to produce a blissful experience, and the most subtle kind of changes—almost immediately—in one's personal life. If you listen to Ellen read what Mrs. Price says in her post, you realize that TM, mechanically and efficaciously considered, beats any other spiritual technique in existence—I would even say (from an Eastern point of view) ever. The fact that in doing TM one does not change anything about oneself in terms of one's own values, beliefs, or life style—and Ellen when she extolled the benefits of TM was as convincing and persuasive as anyone could be—likewise when 'Mrs Price' wrote her letter to Emily— is something without precedent. There is no 'technique' that I know of which is not wedded to some belief system in the very practising of that technique. Not so TM. Transcendental Meditation, therefore, in my opinion, obbajeeba, is sui generis, intrinsically unique, like nothing else. Doing TM does not resemble doing anything else. There is—this is my argument based upon empirical evidence—absolutely no cross-pollination with any other technique or forms of meditation. In fact, I contend that whatever alternative spiritual tradition a former TMer turns to— especially a former initiator—he or she will approach, and even practise—and evaluate—that new technique *entirely in terms of their pervious experience of Transcendental Meditation*. TM is not just different, obbajeeba; it is distinct and separate from everything else spiritually in existence. This is why Rick Archer always comes off—to me at least—as so much more conversant with the religious forms of experience, with spiritual reality, with how to understand states of consciousness than any of his guests (except for the TM ones: like Phil Goldberg and Dana Sawyer). Despite turning from TM and Maharishi, his nervous system has been schooled in the TM-Maharishi-Guru Dev universe, and this shows through at every level of himself. Even as he now professes to have a more authentic religious experience through his relationship with Mata Amritanandamayi (Amma: the Hugging Saint) than he did with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Every one of us keen initiators, throughout the early and mid seventies, would have been nonplussed by any TM teacher trying to make the argument you make here. It wouldn't make sense to us. We did not just abide by what Maharishi had told us about guarding the purity of The Teaching; we felt it in our very soul. It was so manifestly clear to us that TM was something absolutely special, and could never be compared to anything that had been offered in our lifetime [our present one :-)] We acted on behalf of this notion of No Saints scrupulously, but not, as I say, out of deference to Maharishi; we could intuitively, deeply, feel the necessity of this. After all, what Master had produced the experience that Mother is at Home? What Master could allow us to confirm for ourselves that we were getting The Support of Nature? What other Master could deliver on his promise that once we became initiators, we could give to some other human being, a perfect stranger, this ultimate transcendent experience? The Checking Notes themselves—the Checking Procedure as memorized and applied—are more dazzlingly and perfectly efficient than
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra no_reply@ wrote: Darling Obbajeeba, I can't get rid of the hate in my heart, so please bear with me while I attack you without cause. Did you watch Ellen Degeneres open that David Lynch Foundation event? And did you read Bob Price's wife's post attempting to persuade Emily to start Transcendental Meditation? And do you recall when TM for you was the best thing goingbefore the 1980's, that is? (By the way, I am going to assume you are an initiator; if you are not then some of my comments here are not, for you, completely on the mark.) No one could see anything about Ellen Degeneres (or for that matter in Martin Scorsese's comments) or in 'Mrs. Price's' commentary which would imply any kind of influence over their own individualism and originality. TM is the most subtle and efficacious technique there is to produce a blissful experience, and the most subtle kind of changesalmost immediatelyin one's personal life. If you listen to Ellen read what Mrs. Price says in her post, you realize that TM, mechanically and efficaciously considered, beats any other spiritual technique in existenceI would even say (from an Eastern point of view) ever. The fact that in doing TM one does not change anything about oneself in terms of one's own values, beliefs, or life styleand Ellen when she extolled the benefits of TM was as convincing and persuasive as anyone could belikewise when 'Mrs Price' wrote her letter to Emilyis something without precedent. There is no 'technique' that I know of which is not wedded to some belief system in the very practising of that technique. Not so TM. Transcendental Meditation, therefore, in my opinion, obbajeeba, is sui generis, intrinsically unique, like nothing else. Doing TM does not resemble doing anything else. There isthis is my argument based upon empirical evidenceabsolutely no cross-pollination with any other technique or forms of meditation. In fact, I contend that whatever alternative spiritual tradition a former TMer turns toespecially a former initiatorhe or she will approach, and even practiseand evaluatethat new technique *entirely in terms of their pervious experience of Transcendental Meditation*. TM is not just different, obbajeeba; it is distinct and separate from everything else spiritually in existence. This is why Rick Archer always comes offto me at leastas so much more conversant with the religious forms of experience, with spiritual reality, with how to understand states of consciousness than any of his guests (except for the TM ones: like Phil Goldberg and Dana Sawyer). Despite turning from TM and Maharishi, his nervous system has been schooled in the TM-Maharishi-Guru Dev universe, and this shows through at every level of himself. Even as he now professes to have a more authentic religious experience through his relationship with Mata Amritanandamayi (Amma: the Hugging Saint) than he did with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Every one of us keen initiators, throughout the early and mid seventies, would have been nonplussed by any TM teacher trying to make the argument you make here. It wouldn't make sense to us. We did not just abide by what Maharishi had told us about guarding the purity of The Teaching; we felt it in our very soul. It was so manifestly clear to us that TM was something absolutely special, and could never be compared to anything that had been offered in our lifetime [our present one :-)] We acted on behalf of this notion of No Saints scrupulously, but not, as I say, out of deference to Maharishi; we could intuitively, deeply, feel the necessity of this. After all, what Master had produced the experience that Mother is at Home? What Master could allow us to confirm for ourselves that we were getting The Support of Nature? What other Master could deliver on his promise that once we became initiators, we could give to some other human being, a perfect stranger, this ultimate transcendent experience? The Checking Notes themselvesthe Checking Procedure as memorized and appliedare more dazzlingly and perfectly efficient than anything in existence. And there is no Master in our lifetime who systematically made teachers of this wisdom such that we could actually have the experience of tuning into the Holy Tradition, to having the experiences that previously were reserved for Hindus who sought silence in some Himalayan cave. Lookee here, obbajeeba: TM, Maharishi, becoming a TM Teacherall the advanced techniques that followed (including of course the Two Week Extension and the Sidhis)entailed participating in a certain metaphysical context within creation. And there is nothing nor ever will be anything
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
Dear Vaj: You finally did it. You have convinced mebeyond a shadow of doubtthat you really did at one point hold that beautiful devotion in your heart for Maharishi Mahesh Yogibut you have gone much farther than I have in your repudiation of this experience; you have exorcized the complete, the total TM-Maharishi-Guru Dev context from your life, your body, your heart, and your mind. It was this very post which convinced me of this, Vaj. Please forgive me. The moment virtually I began to read this post I felt that unmistakeable vertigo in my soul, which always is a presentiment of that kind of truth which is going to knock me to my knees. This post of yours, believe it or not, has freed me from this (these are so felicitously chosen out of your purified heart) most disturbing, drooling rabid TM True Believer malaiseand I am grateful to you, Vaj. Now can we have an offline conversation? Just say the word. Magnificent stuff here, Vaj: now everyone who doubted that you knew the first thing about transcending via Transcendental Meditation must realize how they have wronged you and besmirched your reputation. I apologize on behalf of all of them, because I question whether they possess the psychological security that I do to admit my false judgment of you. But one thing, as I close this: Does what I say interest you in the possibility of experiencing what it would be like to do TM? Because that, dear boy, was my real intent: to spur (Maharishi word) you to get initiated. I'd recommend Curtis as your teacher. He has both sides of the story inside of him. Did I just switch directions just then? I think I did. Well, just chalk it up to my fanatical adherence still to the undeep meditation that Maharishi called Transcendental Meditation. I wish Obama *liked* being President. Like Bill; where's the love Barack? A very timely and supernatural blow you have delivered here, Vaj: I recognized that your experience of judging me an idiot for what I wrote to obbajeeba was coming from a place in yourself which simultaneously held the memory of what it was like to have the glorious experience of being physically in the presence of Maharishi while recognizing that this memory must be neutered through an allegiance to a much higher Buddhistic truth. There. Are we friends now? And can you put in a good word for me with Curtis and Barry? I'd like to join this trio to make a lusty and robust quartet. One day Curtis and I will put on a show for you: he plays the guitar and sings; I do my performance art. We will sell out. You be our impresario. Love to you, Vaj, Robin Wow. If that's not the most disturbing, droolingly rabid TM True Believer post I've ever read, I don't know what is. Are you really that naive? Haven't you read any of the research on ACTUAL deep meditation? Doesn't the Catholic church have deprogrammers like we saw in The Exorcist or The Rite? Sheesh Robin, I didn't think there were any TB's left like this! Actually I remember YOU sending in MUM students to the dome to practice a different technique - so you have to have some understanding as to what that would do - although the rationale then was that they were invoking some demonic egregore, which you felt you could disrupt and confront. The ice cream of TM melted years ago. It's not our fault you never were able to wash your hands. On Dec 14, 2011, at 2:08 PM, maskedzebra wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: Wow. If that's not the most disturbing, droolingly rabid TM True Believer post I've ever read, I don't know what is. Are you really that naive? Haven't you read any of the research on ACTUAL deep meditation? Doesn't the Catholic church have deprogrammers like we saw in The Exorcist or The Rite? Sheesh Robin, I didn't think there were any TB's left like this! Actually I remember YOU sending in MUM students to the dome to practice a different technique - so you have to have some understanding as to what that would do - although the rationale then was that they were invoking some demonic egregore, which you felt you could disrupt and confront. The ice cream of TM melted years ago. It's not our fault you never were able to wash your hands. On Dec 14, 2011, at 2:08 PM, maskedzebra wrote: Darling Obbajeeba, I can't get rid of the hate in my heart, so please bear with me while I attack you without cause. Did you watch Ellen Degeneres open that David Lynch Foundation event? And did you read Bob Price's wife's post attempting to persuade Emily to start Transcendental Meditation? And do you recall when TM for you was the best thing goingbefore the 1980's, that is? (By the way, I am going to assume you are an initiator; if you are not then some of my comments here are not, for you, completely on the mark.) No one could see anything about Ellen Degeneres (or for that matter
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
TM is the ice-cream. Beautifully expressed, Robin. Thank you. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra no_reply@... wrote: Darling Obbajeeba, I can't get rid of the hate in my heart, so please bear with me while I attack you without cause. Did you watch Ellen Degeneres open that David Lynch Foundation event? And did you read Bob Price's wife's post attempting to persuade Emily to start Transcendental Meditation? And do you recall when TM for you was the best thing goingbefore the 1980's, that is? (By the way, I am going to assume you are an initiator; if you are not then some of my comments here are not, for you, completely on the mark.) No one could see anything about Ellen Degeneres (or for that matter in Martin Scorsese's comments) or in 'Mrs. Price's' commentary which would imply any kind of influence over their own individualism and originality. TM is the most subtle and efficacious technique there is to produce a blissful experience, and the most subtle kind of changesalmost immediatelyin one's personal life. If you listen to Ellen read what Mrs. Price says in her post, you realize that TM, mechanically and efficaciously considered, beats any other spiritual technique in existenceI would even say (from an Eastern point of view) ever. The fact that in doing TM one does not change anything about oneself in terms of one's own values, beliefs, or life styleand Ellen when she extolled the benefits of TM was as convincing and persuasive as anyone could belikewise when 'Mrs Price' wrote her letter to Emilyis something without precedent. There is no 'technique' that I know of which is not wedded to some belief system in the very practising of that technique. Not so TM. Transcendental Meditation, therefore, in my opinion, obbajeeba, is sui generis, intrinsically unique, like nothing else. Doing TM does not resemble doing anything else. There isthis is my argument based upon empirical evidenceabsolutely no cross-pollination with any other technique or forms of meditation. In fact, I contend that whatever alternative spiritual tradition a former TMer turns toespecially a former initiatorhe or she will approach, and even practiseand evaluatethat new technique *entirely in terms of their pervious experience of Transcendental Meditation*. TM is not just different, obbajeeba; it is distinct and separate from everything else spiritually in existence. This is why Rick Archer always comes offto me at leastas so much more conversant with the religious forms of experience, with spiritual reality, with how to understand states of consciousness than any of his guests (except for the TM ones: like Phil Goldberg and Dana Sawyer). Despite turning from TM and Maharishi, his nervous system has been schooled in the TM-Maharishi-Guru Dev universe, and this shows through at every level of himself. Even as he now professes to have a more authentic religious experience through his relationship with Mata Amritanandamayi (Amma: the Hugging Saint) than he did with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Every one of us keen initiators, throughout the early and mid seventies, would have been nonplussed by any TM teacher trying to make the argument you make here. It wouldn't make sense to us. We did not just abide by what Maharishi had told us about guarding the purity of The Teaching; we felt it in our very soul. It was so manifestly clear to us that TM was something absolutely special, and could never be compared to anything that had been offered in our lifetime [our present one :-)] We acted on behalf of this notion of No Saints scrupulously, but not, as I say, out of deference to Maharishi; we could intuitively, deeply, feel the necessity of this. After all, what Master had produced the experience that Mother is at Home? What Master could allow us to confirm for ourselves that we were getting The Support of Nature? What other Master could deliver on his promise that once we became initiators, we could give to some other human being, a perfect stranger, this ultimate transcendent experience? The Checking Notes themselvesthe Checking Procedure as memorized and appliedare more dazzlingly and perfectly efficient than anything in existence. And there is no Master in our lifetime who systematically made teachers of this wisdom such that we could actually have the experience of tuning into the Holy Tradition, to having the experiences that previously were reserved for Hindus who sought silence in some Himalayan cave. Lookee here, obbajeeba: TM, Maharishi, becoming a TM Teacherall the advanced techniques that followed (including of course the Two Week Extension and the Sidhis)entailed participating in a certain metaphysical context within creation. And there is nothing nor ever will be anything just like TM and just like Maharishi (seen through our golden glasses as devout initiators).
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
Zebra, good exercise as archetypal Tru-Believer and makes for great theatre. It's quite funny that it comes through you on their (Bevan's) behalf. Is fine for you to say, but you don't live here. Regardless, it was brilliant writing in a voice. It's a point of view. Thanks. JGD, -Buck --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra no_reply@... wrote: Darling Obbajeeba, I can't get rid of the hate in my heart, so please bear with me while I attack you without cause. Did you watch Ellen Degeneres open that David Lynch Foundation event? And did you read Bob Price's wife's post attempting to persuade Emily to start Transcendental Meditation? And do you recall when TM for you was the best thing goingbefore the 1980's, that is? (By the way, I am going to assume you are an initiator; if you are not then some of my comments here are not, for you, completely on the mark.) No one could see anything about Ellen Degeneres (or for that matter in Martin Scorsese's comments) or in 'Mrs. Price's' commentary which would imply any kind of influence over their own individualism and originality. TM is the most subtle and efficacious technique there is to produce a blissful experience, and the most subtle kind of changesalmost immediatelyin one's personal life. If you listen to Ellen read what Mrs. Price says in her post, you realize that TM, mechanically and efficaciously considered, beats any other spiritual technique in existenceI would even say (from an Eastern point of view) ever. The fact that in doing TM one does not change anything about oneself in terms of one's own values, beliefs, or life styleand Ellen when she extolled the benefits of TM was as convincing and persuasive as anyone could belikewise when 'Mrs Price' wrote her letter to Emilyis something without precedent. There is no 'technique' that I know of which is not wedded to some belief system in the very practising of that technique. Not so TM. Transcendental Meditation, therefore, in my opinion, obbajeeba, is sui generis, intrinsically unique, like nothing else. Doing TM does not resemble doing anything else. There isthis is my argument based upon empirical evidenceabsolutely no cross-pollination with any other technique or forms of meditation. In fact, I contend that whatever alternative spiritual tradition a former TMer turns toespecially a former initiatorhe or she will approach, and even practiseand evaluatethat new technique *entirely in terms of their pervious experience of Transcendental Meditation*. TM is not just different, obbajeeba; it is distinct and separate from everything else spiritually in existence. This is why Rick Archer always comes offto me at leastas so much more conversant with the religious forms of experience, with spiritual reality, with how to understand states of consciousness than any of his guests (except for the TM ones: like Phil Goldberg and Dana Sawyer). Despite turning from TM and Maharishi, his nervous system has been schooled in the TM-Maharishi-Guru Dev universe, and this shows through at every level of himself. Even as he now professes to have a more authentic religious experience through his relationship with Mata Amritanandamayi (Amma: the Hugging Saint) than he did with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Every one of us keen initiators, throughout the early and mid seventies, would have been nonplussed by any TM teacher trying to make the argument you make here. It wouldn't make sense to us. We did not just abide by what Maharishi had told us about guarding the purity of The Teaching; we felt it in our very soul. It was so manifestly clear to us that TM was something absolutely special, and could never be compared to anything that had been offered in our lifetime [our present one :-)] We acted on behalf of this notion of No Saints scrupulously, but not, as I say, out of deference to Maharishi; we could intuitively, deeply, feel the necessity of this. After all, what Master had produced the experience that Mother is at Home? What Master could allow us to confirm for ourselves that we were getting The Support of Nature? What other Master could deliver on his promise that once we became initiators, we could give to some other human being, a perfect stranger, this ultimate transcendent experience? The Checking Notes themselvesthe Checking Procedure as memorized and appliedare more dazzlingly and perfectly efficient than anything in existence. And there is no Master in our lifetime who systematically made teachers of this wisdom such that we could actually have the experience of tuning into the Holy Tradition, to having the experiences that previously were reserved for Hindus who sought silence in some Himalayan cave. Lookee here, obbajeeba: TM, Maharishi, becoming a TM Teacherall the advanced techniques that followed (including of course the Two Week Extension and
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
On 12/14/2011 12:09 PM, Vaj wrote: Wow. If that's not the most disturbing, droolingly rabid TM True Believer post I've ever read, I don't know what is. Are you really that naive? Haven't you read any of the research on ACTUAL deep meditation? Doesn't the Catholic church have deprogrammers like we saw in The Exorcist or The Rite? Sheesh Robin, I didn't think there were any TB's left like this! Actually I remember YOU sending in MUM students to the dome to practice a different technique - so you have to have some understanding as to what that would do - although the rationale then was that they were invoking some demonic egregore, which you felt you could disrupt and confront. The ice cream of TM melted years ago. It's not our fault you never were able to wash your hands. Not only that it seemed to have artificial fillers and flavoring. :-D Now OTOH there was Golden Temple ice cream. Now that was real ice cream! ;-) To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: fairfieldlife-dig...@yahoogroups.com fairfieldlife-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: fairfieldlife-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
TM is the Vanilla Swiss Almond of Meditation: Wholesome vanilla goodness that satisfies chocolate connoisseurs as well as nuts. [http://s.shld.net/is/image/Sears/08729491000_20100227080315376] --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 12/14/2011 12:09 PM, Vaj wrote: Wow. If that's not the most disturbing, droolingly rabid TM True Believer post I've ever read, I don't know what is. Are you really that naive? Haven't you read any of the research on ACTUAL deep meditation? Doesn't the Catholic church have deprogrammers like we saw in The Exorcist or The Rite? Sheesh Robin, I didn't think there were any TB's left like this! Actually I remember YOU sending in MUM students to the dome to practice a different technique - so you have to have some understanding as to what that would do - although the rationale then was that they were invoking some demonic egregore, which you felt you could disrupt and confront. The ice cream of TM melted years ago. It's not our fault you never were able to wash your hands. Not only that it seemed to have artificial fillers and flavoring. :-D Now OTOH there was Golden Temple ice cream. Now that was real ice cream! ;-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
It is a truth. Buck is correct. Buck is not a renegade. Buck is calling Santa out. Santa finally notices, Rudolph's nose shines so brightly, Won't you guide my sleigh tonight? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3z1iOvXpeY Obba, well I've been called a lot of mean things but nobody never called me 'a red-nosed reindeer'. Great video though, I like its parallels to the story of this on-going anti-saint theme of exclusion by the TM Rajas. Thanks for noticing. A primitive and old meditator, -Buck in FF --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, obbajeeba no_reply@... wrote: Exactly. Listen to this scenario here: A poor student learning TM in their school through the David Lynch Foundation, who may have parents or a Rich Aunt or Uncle, who may meditate another practice. Then one day, the student as a student finds out about these other techniques available and discusses them with the family members. Then maybe the student goes and listens to chants and such, presented differently by these other places of higher knowledge, that higher knowledge being something the student had not heard of before. When the student decides to go back and take the TM-Sidhi's and is asked about seeking Saints, etc., will that student be turned down the teachings? Or, what if the student went from learning TM in the public school right to MUM and learns the TM-Sidhi's, goes on a holiday break to see relatives, finds out his relatives practice another technique or such, Saint searching the globe, does this mean when the student returns to MUM, and speaks about his gathered experiences, he/she may be turned down a dome badge? These policies have to change if TM is going to expect to reach millions of students elsewhere, because these are not far fetched scenarios. If anyone thinks it is such a rarity, than one has lived a boxed sheltered life. Maybe can't see past the foundations of tax deduction purposes. It is a truth. Buck is correct. Buck is not a renegade. Buck is calling Santa out. Santa finally notices, Rudolph's nose shines so brightly, Won't you guide my sleigh tonight? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3z1iOvXpeY ALL AMERICAN CHILDREN WORSHIP A SAINT,whether they are Christian or not, because he brings lot's of gifts. These children would technically not qualify for a dome badge. Period. End of story. Saint Nicholas is my hero. I bow to St. Nicholas. Can I please have my dome badge back? This is my Christmas wish and don your St. Nicholas caps and occupy the domes, cuz this Saint ain't going away, anytime soon. Jai Guru Dev. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yep, they could always just ask that people only practice TM in the domes and go from there Otherwise they will always be excluding people who could be in there helping with the dome numbers. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. And there is a belief/concern that people who are sitting with the saints are learning new practices that they will bring with them and practice in the Domes instead of the official TM and TM-Sidhis program. Do you understand that this is what the policy is meant to address? L. Yep, the Raja guideline in response in application is way too rough on on the numbers. You and the Rajas could also have more faith in people.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
Yeah, it is a bad corrosive policy with only poor success that they have had with the dome numbers. These TM-Rajas, they are completely holding back World Peace. Given the quite strong and substantial peer-review science on all this, it would seem these Raja evidently are holding back World Peace with their anti-saint dome policy done this way they do. These poor dome numbers here have long been the problem of this policy they are keeping. It is a shame and a time is come to change it. En lieu it would not be a bad thing to prosecute them all for crimes against humanity at the World Court of International Justice in the Hague. Their own research on meditating groups coupled with their miserable dome numbers would convict them. It is a sad case. A crime. The domes are full of people right now who have visited saints. Yep, evidently the Rajas have produced two domes full of liars. That is a bad feeling there as in, not a good feeling to have there underneath. These TM Rajas, that large Prime Minister in particular, push people to lie, hide and kiss ass to stay in the domes. I interviewed a person recently who was on the Mother Divine program, she remarked that to survive on Mother Divine they would all lie, hide and kiss-ass about this. In people's life the TM anti-saint policy is quite without conscience for people to participate. The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yes, it is really quite incredible that these TM Rajas should even be going against Guru Dev's very certain spiritual advice to make use of our time on earth particularly by being with saints. Oh Please! They are not going against Guru Dev, they are trying to follow the guidelines set up by Maharishi himself long ago. Now, leave Guru Dev out of this, we don't know what he would have said. MMY was entirely clear about all of this and never ever budged from his position. Maharishi was clear, at times. This policy, I know, has consolitated during the final period of his life, but it wasn't always the same. And Maharishi could make exceptions to this rule, as I already said, for example in Lelystad. I don't blame you if you don't know that, but he did budge from his position. But in setting up 'rules', he would have to teach the administration, and usually was strong about it, I agree. The Rajas have to decide to make changes that MMY never did He did. The rules before were different (for example before the Muktananda event), and he would make exceptions himself. Now, maybe Maharishi would have changed this rule by now, but don't blame the Rajas or anyone else. This rule came from Maharishi and he was BLUNT about it. I am sure he was blunt to the administration. Yet, as you say yourself, it may be time for a change. The Rajas had no problem skipping the always-wear-a-crown thing, or inviting Beatles back, and even more so, use them for publicity, something unthinkable when Maharishi was still alive. And they even loosened the saints rule a bit, don't forget, but what I suggest is, keep these changes logical and transparent. What is illogical? There is a common belief in India, that once you have found your Guru, you don't need anybody else, right? We have Maharishi, we don't need Ammachi (or whoever), thats what you would hear in private conversations. That is to say, a Guru-Disciple relationship is assumed. The problem here is, that the TM movement is not at all upfront that this is the case. They are not telling, that Maharishi is our guru, but he is supposed only to be the founder of TM, at least publicly. Now, hence the confusion. Now, with regard to Maharishi being 'Guru', if he is a Guru to the TM people involved, to what people exactly? All TM teachers? Also TM teachers who are not really teachers anymore?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
These TM Rajas, they should be apologizing to and asking for forgiveness from the community. All those ones on the stage at that meeting. Nadar-raam too. Yeah, it is a bad corrosive policy with only poor success that they have had with the dome numbers. These TM-Rajas, they are completely holding back World Peace. Given the quite strong and substantial peer-review science on all this, it would seem these Raja evidently are holding back World Peace with their anti-saint dome policy done this way they do. These poor dome numbers here have long been the problem of this policy they are keeping. It is a shame and a time is come to change it. En lieu it would not be a bad thing to prosecute them all for crimes against humanity at the World Court of International Justice in the Hague. Their own research on meditating groups coupled with their miserable dome numbers would convict them. It is a sad case. A crime. The domes are full of people right now who have visited saints. Yep, evidently the Rajas have produced two domes full of liars. That is a bad feeling there as in, not a good feeling to have there underneath. These TM Rajas, that large Prime Minister in particular, push people to lie, hide and kiss ass to stay in the domes. I interviewed a person recently who was on the Mother Divine program, she remarked that to survive on Mother Divine they would all lie, hide and kiss-ass about this. In people's life the TM anti-saint policy is quite without conscience for people to participate. The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yes, it is really quite incredible that these TM Rajas should even be going against Guru Dev's very certain spiritual advice to make use of our time on earth particularly by being with saints. Oh Please! They are not going against Guru Dev, they are trying to follow the guidelines set up by Maharishi himself long ago. Now, leave Guru Dev out of this, we don't know what he would have said. MMY was entirely clear about all of this and never ever budged from his position. Maharishi was clear, at times. This policy, I know, has consolitated during the final period of his life, but it wasn't always the same. And Maharishi could make exceptions to this rule, as I already said, for example in Lelystad. I don't blame you if you don't know that, but he did budge from his position. But in setting up 'rules', he would have to teach the administration, and usually was strong about it, I agree. The Rajas have to decide to make changes that MMY never did He did. The rules before were different (for example before the Muktananda event), and he would make exceptions himself. Now, maybe Maharishi would have changed this rule by now, but don't blame the Rajas or anyone else. This rule came from Maharishi and he was BLUNT about it. I am sure he was blunt to the administration. Yet, as you say yourself, it may be time for a change. The Rajas had no problem skipping the always-wear-a-crown thing, or inviting Beatles back, and even more so, use them for publicity, something unthinkable when Maharishi was still alive. And they even loosened the saints rule a bit, don't forget, but what I suggest is, keep these changes logical and transparent. What is illogical? There is a common belief in India, that once you have found your Guru, you don't need anybody else, right? We have Maharishi, we don't need Ammachi (or whoever), thats what you would hear in private conversations. That is to say, a Guru-Disciple relationship is assumed. The problem here is, that the TM movement is not at all upfront that this is the
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
You are Buck, not Rudolph. I called you Buck. I see no reason to be mean to you. : ) You are doing great work. ps. I have not ever had a dome badge taken from me. That was fabricated for the story below as in support of those who need one. The only Saint that I have ever seen in life and I sat on his lap as a child quite a few times, and at few adult Xmas parties later on (Dirty Santa) is Saint Nicholas. : ) Now where is the Lone Zombie Zebra... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: It is a truth. Buck is correct. Buck is not a renegade. Buck is calling Santa out. Santa finally notices, Rudolph's nose shines so brightly, Won't you guide my sleigh tonight? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3z1iOvXpeY Obba, well I've been called a lot of mean things but nobody never called me 'a red-nosed reindeer'. Great video though, I like its parallels to the story of this on-going anti-saint theme of exclusion by the TM Rajas. Thanks for noticing. A primitive and old meditator, -Buck in FF --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, obbajeeba no_reply@ wrote: Exactly. Listen to this scenario here: A poor student learning TM in their school through the David Lynch Foundation, who may have parents or a Rich Aunt or Uncle, who may meditate another practice. Then one day, the student as a student finds out about these other techniques available and discusses them with the family members. Then maybe the student goes and listens to chants and such, presented differently by these other places of higher knowledge, that higher knowledge being something the student had not heard of before. When the student decides to go back and take the TM-Sidhi's and is asked about seeking Saints, etc., will that student be turned down the teachings? Or, what if the student went from learning TM in the public school right to MUM and learns the TM-Sidhi's, goes on a holiday break to see relatives, finds out his relatives practice another technique or such, Saint searching the globe, does this mean when the student returns to MUM, and speaks about his gathered experiences, he/she may be turned down a dome badge? These policies have to change if TM is going to expect to reach millions of students elsewhere, because these are not far fetched scenarios. If anyone thinks it is such a rarity, than one has lived a boxed sheltered life. Maybe can't see past the foundations of tax deduction purposes. It is a truth. Buck is correct. Buck is not a renegade. Buck is calling Santa out. Santa finally notices, Rudolph's nose shines so brightly, Won't you guide my sleigh tonight? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3z1iOvXpeY ALL AMERICAN CHILDREN WORSHIP A SAINT,whether they are Christian or not, because he brings lot's of gifts. These children would technically not qualify for a dome badge. Period. End of story. Saint Nicholas is my hero. I bow to St. Nicholas. Can I please have my dome badge back? This is my Christmas wish and don your St. Nicholas caps and occupy the domes, cuz this Saint ain't going away, anytime soon. Jai Guru Dev. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yep, they could always just ask that people only practice TM in the domes and go from there Otherwise they will always be excluding people who could be in there helping with the dome numbers. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. And there is a belief/concern that people who are sitting with the saints are learning new practices that they will bring with them and practice in the Domes instead of the official TM and TM-Sidhis program. Do you understand that this is what the policy is meant to address? L. Yep, the Raja guideline in response in application is way too rough on on the numbers. You and the Rajas could also have more faith in people.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, obbajeeba no_reply@... wrote: You are Buck, not Rudolph. I called you Buck. I see no reason to be mean to you. : ) You are doing great work. ps. I have not ever had a dome badge taken from me. That was fabricated for the story below as in support of those who need one. The only Saint that I have ever seen in life and I sat on his lap as a child quite a few times, and at few adult Xmas parties later on (Dirty Santa) is Saint Nicholas. : ) Now where is the Lone Zombie Zebra... Caught on tape: obbajeeba gives Dirty Santa a lap dance. You go girl! http://youtu.be/lHDsy0pjySU --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: It is a truth. Buck is correct. Buck is not a renegade. Buck is calling Santa out. Santa finally notices, Rudolph's nose shines so brightly, Won't you guide my sleigh tonight? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3z1iOvXpeY Obba, well I've been called a lot of mean things but nobody never called me 'a red-nosed reindeer'. Great video though, I like its parallels to the story of this on-going anti-saint theme of exclusion by the TM Rajas. Thanks for noticing. A primitive and old meditator, -Buck in FF --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, obbajeeba no_reply@ wrote: Exactly. Listen to this scenario here: A poor student learning TM in their school through the David Lynch Foundation, who may have parents or a Rich Aunt or Uncle, who may meditate another practice. Then one day, the student as a student finds out about these other techniques available and discusses them with the family members. Then maybe the student goes and listens to chants and such, presented differently by these other places of higher knowledge, that higher knowledge being something the student had not heard of before. When the student decides to go back and take the TM-Sidhi's and is asked about seeking Saints, etc., will that student be turned down the teachings? Or, what if the student went from learning TM in the public school right to MUM and learns the TM-Sidhi's, goes on a holiday break to see relatives, finds out his relatives practice another technique or such, Saint searching the globe, does this mean when the student returns to MUM, and speaks about his gathered experiences, he/she may be turned down a dome badge? These policies have to change if TM is going to expect to reach millions of students elsewhere, because these are not far fetched scenarios. If anyone thinks it is such a rarity, than one has lived a boxed sheltered life. Maybe can't see past the foundations of tax deduction purposes. It is a truth. Buck is correct. Buck is not a renegade. Buck is calling Santa out. Santa finally notices, Rudolph's nose shines so brightly, Won't you guide my sleigh tonight? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3z1iOvXpeY ALL AMERICAN CHILDREN WORSHIP A SAINT,whether they are Christian or not, because he brings lot's of gifts. These children would technically not qualify for a dome badge. Period. End of story. Saint Nicholas is my hero. I bow to St. Nicholas. Can I please have my dome badge back? This is my Christmas wish and don your St. Nicholas caps and occupy the domes, cuz this Saint ain't going away, anytime soon. Jai Guru Dev. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yep, they could always just ask that people only practice TM in the domes and go from there Otherwise they will always be excluding people who could be in there helping with the dome numbers. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. And there is a belief/concern that people who are sitting with the saints are learning new practices that they will bring with them and practice in the Domes instead of the official TM and TM-Sidhis program. Do you understand that this is what the policy is meant to address? L. Yep, the Raja guideline in response in application is way too rough on on the numbers. You and the Rajas could also have more faith in people.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yes, it is really quite incredible that these TM Rajas should even be going against Guru Dev's very certain spiritual advice to make use of our time on earth particularly by being with saints. Oh Please! They are not going against Guru Dev, they are trying to follow the guidelines set up by Maharishi himself long ago. Now, leave Guru Dev out of this, we don't know what he would have said. MMY was entirely clear about all of this and never ever budged from his position. Maharishi was clear, at times. This policy, I know, has consolitated during the final period of his life, but it wasn't always the same. And Maharishi could make exceptions to this rule, as I already said, for example in Lelystad. I don't blame you if you don't know that, but he did budge from his position. But in setting up 'rules', he would have to teach the administration, and usually was strong about it, I agree. The Rajas have to decide to make changes that MMY never did He did. The rules before were different (for example before the Muktananda event), and he would make exceptions himself. Now, maybe Maharishi would have changed this rule by now, but don't blame the Rajas or anyone else. This rule came from Maharishi and he was BLUNT about it. I am sure he was blunt to the administration. Yet, as you say yourself, it may be time for a change. The Rajas had no problem skipping the always-wear-a-crown thing, or inviting Beatles back, and even more so, use them for publicity, something unthinkable when Maharishi was still alive. And they even loosened the saints rule a bit, don't forget, but what I suggest is, keep these changes logical and transparent. What is illogical? There is a common belief in India, that once you have found your Guru, you don't need anybody else, right? We have Maharishi, we don't need Ammachi (or whoever), thats what you would hear in private conversations. That is to say, a Guru-Disciple relationship is assumed. The problem here is, that the TM movement is not at all upfront that this is the case. They are not telling, that Maharishi is our guru, but he is supposed only to be the founder of TM, at least publicly. Now, hence the confusion. Now, with regard to Maharishi being 'Guru', if he is a Guru to the TM people involved, to what people exactly? All TM teachers? Also TM teachers who are not really teachers anymore? And: Do they know this? Next: if we assume, that Maharishi is a guru to the people, which is not publicly said, it would be still possible, that people see different saints, as long as they don't take teaching from them, or rather as long as they don't become their disciples *simultaneausly*. There is an example often cited within TM, referring to Guru Dev, not seeing another saint or speaker, who comes to town, while all the Gurubhais go there. He stays in the Ashram, as his heart is completely filled with his master. Now a guest comes, nobody is in the Ashram to receive him, except Guru Dev, taking care of him, and finally the master finds out about the story, and viola, GD is just the most dedicated and devoted disciple. When citing this story, to TM teachers or sidhas, they usually forget to say: GD was having a relationship with his master that was personal throughout, he lived with him, he watched him daily, and he lived in his vibration. He had a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP to his master. But most people concerned from these policies, may even never have seen Maharishi, or any enlightened at all! That is what Buck is pointing out completely rightly: GD says it is very important to seek the company of saints! But, not being able to see Maharishi anymore, or even ever, the people are deprived from this. And then: in the example cited above, GD was so devoted that he stayed in the Ashram, while all others saw the saint/speaker. Do you notice two things? There was NO RULE in the Ashram to not see other saints, they did so with permission. And second, when GD stayed, he did so OUT OF HIS OWN WILL, out of his spontaneous devotion, not an IMPOSED SHOW OF DEVOTION. Two elements are present here: sponatneity of devotion, and I think that is the only devotion worth considering, and a real and lively guru-disciple relationship. Now, consider yourself: is this the case in TM? Obviously not for most people, obviously less so for more and more people since Maharishi withdrew in Holland, and since time passes ofter his demiss. There will come a time, not too far away,
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yes, it is really quite incredible that these TM Rajas should even be going against Guru Dev's very certain spiritual advice to make use of our time on earth particularly by being with saints. Oh Please! They are not going against Guru Dev, they are trying to follow the guidelines set up by Maharishi himself long ago. Now, leave Guru Dev out of this, we don't know what he would have said. MMY was entirely clear about all of this and never ever budged from his position. Maharishi was clear, at times. This policy, I know, has consolitated during the final period of his life, but it wasn't always the same. And Maharishi could make exceptions to this rule, as I already said, for example in Lelystad. I don't blame you if you don't know that, but he did budge from his position. But in setting up 'rules', he would have to teach the administration, and usually was strong about it, I agree. The Rajas have to decide to make changes that MMY never did He did. The rules before were different (for example before the Muktananda event), and he would make exceptions himself. Now, maybe Maharishi would have changed this rule by now, but don't blame the Rajas or anyone else. This rule came from Maharishi and he was BLUNT about it. I am sure he was blunt to the administration. Yet, as you say yourself, it may be time for a change. The Rajas had no problem skipping the always-wear-a-crown thing, or inviting Beatles back, and even more so, use them for publicity, something unthinkable when Maharishi was still alive. And they even loosened the saints rule a bit, don't forget, but what I suggest is, keep these changes logical and transparent. What is illogical? There is a common belief in India, that once you have found your Guru, you don't need anybody else, right? We have Maharishi, we don't need Ammachi (or whoever), thats what you would hear in private conversations. That is to say, a Guru-Disciple relationship is assumed. The problem here is, that the TM movement is not at all upfront that this is the case. They are not telling, that Maharishi is our guru, but he is supposed only to be the founder of TM, at least publicly. Now, hence the confusion. Now, with regard to Maharishi being 'Guru', if he is a Guru to the TM people involved, to what people exactly? All TM teachers? Also TM teachers who are not really teachers anymore? And: Do they know this? Next: if we assume, that Maharishi is a guru to the people, which is not publicly said, it would be still possible, that people see different saints, as long as they don't take teaching from them, or rather as long as they don't become their disciples *simultaneausly*. There is an example often cited within TM, referring to Guru Dev, not seeing another saint or speaker, who comes to town, while all the Gurubhais go there. He stays in the Ashram, as his heart is completely filled with his master. Now a guest comes, nobody is in the Ashram to receive him, except Guru Dev, taking care of him, and finally the master finds out about the story, and viola, GD is just the most dedicated and devoted disciple. When citing this story, to TM teachers or sidhas, they usually forget to say: GD was having a relationship with his master that was personal throughout, he lived with him, he watched him daily, and he lived in his vibration. He had a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP to his master. But most people concerned from these policies, may even never have seen Maharishi, or any enlightened at all! That is what Buck is pointing out completely rightly: GD says it is very important to seek the company of saints! But, not being able to see Maharishi anymore, or even ever, the people are deprived from this. And then: in the example cited above, GD was so devoted that he stayed in the Ashram, while all others saw the saint/speaker. Do you notice two things? There was NO RULE in the Ashram to not see other saints, they did so with permission. And second, when GD stayed, he did so OUT OF HIS OWN WILL, out of his spontaneous devotion, not an IMPOSED SHOW OF DEVOTION. Two elements are present here: sponatneity of devotion, and I think that is the only devotion worth considering, and a real and lively guru-disciple relationship. Now, consider yourself: is this the case in TM? Obviously not for most people, obviously less
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
These TM Rajas, that large Prime Minister in particular, push people to lie, hide and kiss ass to stay in the domes. I interviewed a person recently who was on the Mother Divine program, she remarked that to survive on Mother Divine they would all lie, hide and kiss-ass about this. In people's life the TM anti-saint policy is quite without conscience for people to participate. The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yes, it is really quite incredible that these TM Rajas should even be going against Guru Dev's very certain spiritual advice to make use of our time on earth particularly by being with saints. Oh Please! They are not going against Guru Dev, they are trying to follow the guidelines set up by Maharishi himself long ago. Now, leave Guru Dev out of this, we don't know what he would have said. MMY was entirely clear about all of this and never ever budged from his position. Maharishi was clear, at times. This policy, I know, has consolitated during the final period of his life, but it wasn't always the same. And Maharishi could make exceptions to this rule, as I already said, for example in Lelystad. I don't blame you if you don't know that, but he did budge from his position. But in setting up 'rules', he would have to teach the administration, and usually was strong about it, I agree. The Rajas have to decide to make changes that MMY never did He did. The rules before were different (for example before the Muktananda event), and he would make exceptions himself. Now, maybe Maharishi would have changed this rule by now, but don't blame the Rajas or anyone else. This rule came from Maharishi and he was BLUNT about it. I am sure he was blunt to the administration. Yet, as you say yourself, it may be time for a change. The Rajas had no problem skipping the always-wear-a-crown thing, or inviting Beatles back, and even more so, use them for publicity, something unthinkable when Maharishi was still alive. And they even loosened the saints rule a bit, don't forget, but what I suggest is, keep these changes logical and transparent. What is illogical? There is a common belief in India, that once you have found your Guru, you don't need anybody else, right? We have Maharishi, we don't need Ammachi (or whoever), thats what you would hear in private conversations. That is to say, a Guru-Disciple relationship is assumed. The problem here is, that the TM movement is not at all upfront that this is the case. They are not telling, that Maharishi is our guru, but he is supposed only to be the founder of TM, at least publicly. Now, hence the confusion. Now, with regard to Maharishi being 'Guru', if he is a Guru to the TM people involved, to what people exactly? All TM teachers? Also TM teachers who are not really teachers anymore? And: Do they know this? Next: if we assume, that Maharishi is a guru to the people, which is not publicly said, it would be still possible, that people see different saints, as long as they don't take teaching from them, or rather as long as they don't become their disciples *simultaneausly*. There is an example often cited within TM, referring to Guru Dev, not seeing another saint or speaker, who comes to town, while all the Gurubhais go there. He stays in the Ashram, as his heart is completely filled with his master. Now a guest comes, nobody is in the Ashram to receive him, except Guru Dev, taking care of him, and finally the master finds out about the story, and viola, GD is just the most dedicated and devoted disciple. When citing this story, to TM teachers or sidhas, they usually forget to say: GD was having a relationship with his master that was personal throughout, he lived with him, he watched him daily, and he lived in his vibration. He had a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP to his master. But most people concerned from these policies, may even never have seen Maharishi, or any enlightened at all! That is what Buck is pointing out completely rightly: GD says it is very important to seek the company of saints! But, not being able to see Maharishi anymore, or even ever, the people are deprived from this. And then: in the example cited above, GD was so devoted that he stayed in the Ashram, while all others saw the saint/speaker. Do you
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
Yep, evidently the Rajas have produced two domes full of liars. That is a bad feeling there as in, not a good feeling to have there underneath. These TM Rajas, that large Prime Minister in particular, push people to lie, hide and kiss ass to stay in the domes. I interviewed a person recently who was on the Mother Divine program, she remarked that to survive on Mother Divine they would all lie, hide and kiss-ass about this. In people's life the TM anti-saint policy is quite without conscience for people to participate. The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yes, it is really quite incredible that these TM Rajas should even be going against Guru Dev's very certain spiritual advice to make use of our time on earth particularly by being with saints. Oh Please! They are not going against Guru Dev, they are trying to follow the guidelines set up by Maharishi himself long ago. Now, leave Guru Dev out of this, we don't know what he would have said. MMY was entirely clear about all of this and never ever budged from his position. Maharishi was clear, at times. This policy, I know, has consolitated during the final period of his life, but it wasn't always the same. And Maharishi could make exceptions to this rule, as I already said, for example in Lelystad. I don't blame you if you don't know that, but he did budge from his position. But in setting up 'rules', he would have to teach the administration, and usually was strong about it, I agree. The Rajas have to decide to make changes that MMY never did He did. The rules before were different (for example before the Muktananda event), and he would make exceptions himself. Now, maybe Maharishi would have changed this rule by now, but don't blame the Rajas or anyone else. This rule came from Maharishi and he was BLUNT about it. I am sure he was blunt to the administration. Yet, as you say yourself, it may be time for a change. The Rajas had no problem skipping the always-wear-a-crown thing, or inviting Beatles back, and even more so, use them for publicity, something unthinkable when Maharishi was still alive. And they even loosened the saints rule a bit, don't forget, but what I suggest is, keep these changes logical and transparent. What is illogical? There is a common belief in India, that once you have found your Guru, you don't need anybody else, right? We have Maharishi, we don't need Ammachi (or whoever), thats what you would hear in private conversations. That is to say, a Guru-Disciple relationship is assumed. The problem here is, that the TM movement is not at all upfront that this is the case. They are not telling, that Maharishi is our guru, but he is supposed only to be the founder of TM, at least publicly. Now, hence the confusion. Now, with regard to Maharishi being 'Guru', if he is a Guru to the TM people involved, to what people exactly? All TM teachers? Also TM teachers who are not really teachers anymore? And: Do they know this? Next: if we assume, that Maharishi is a guru to the people, which is not publicly said, it would be still possible, that people see different saints, as long as they don't take teaching from them, or rather as long as they don't become their disciples *simultaneausly*. There is an example often cited within TM, referring to Guru Dev, not seeing another saint or speaker, who comes to town, while all the Gurubhais go there. He stays in the Ashram, as his heart is completely filled with his master. Now a guest comes, nobody is in the Ashram to receive him, except Guru Dev, taking care of him, and finally the master finds out about the story, and viola, GD is just the most dedicated and devoted disciple. When citing this story, to TM teachers or sidhas, they usually forget to say: GD was having a relationship with his master that was personal throughout, he lived with him, he watched him daily, and he lived in his vibration. He had a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP to his master. But most people concerned from these policies, may even never have seen Maharishi, or any enlightened at all! That is what Buck is pointing out completely rightly: GD says it is very important to seek the
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
The domes are full of people right now who have visited saints. Yep, evidently the Rajas have produced two domes full of liars. That is a bad feeling there as in, not a good feeling to have there underneath. These TM Rajas, that large Prime Minister in particular, push people to lie, hide and kiss ass to stay in the domes. I interviewed a person recently who was on the Mother Divine program, she remarked that to survive on Mother Divine they would all lie, hide and kiss-ass about this. In people's life the TM anti-saint policy is quite without conscience for people to participate. The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yes, it is really quite incredible that these TM Rajas should even be going against Guru Dev's very certain spiritual advice to make use of our time on earth particularly by being with saints. Oh Please! They are not going against Guru Dev, they are trying to follow the guidelines set up by Maharishi himself long ago. Now, leave Guru Dev out of this, we don't know what he would have said. MMY was entirely clear about all of this and never ever budged from his position. Maharishi was clear, at times. This policy, I know, has consolitated during the final period of his life, but it wasn't always the same. And Maharishi could make exceptions to this rule, as I already said, for example in Lelystad. I don't blame you if you don't know that, but he did budge from his position. But in setting up 'rules', he would have to teach the administration, and usually was strong about it, I agree. The Rajas have to decide to make changes that MMY never did He did. The rules before were different (for example before the Muktananda event), and he would make exceptions himself. Now, maybe Maharishi would have changed this rule by now, but don't blame the Rajas or anyone else. This rule came from Maharishi and he was BLUNT about it. I am sure he was blunt to the administration. Yet, as you say yourself, it may be time for a change. The Rajas had no problem skipping the always-wear-a-crown thing, or inviting Beatles back, and even more so, use them for publicity, something unthinkable when Maharishi was still alive. And they even loosened the saints rule a bit, don't forget, but what I suggest is, keep these changes logical and transparent. What is illogical? There is a common belief in India, that once you have found your Guru, you don't need anybody else, right? We have Maharishi, we don't need Ammachi (or whoever), thats what you would hear in private conversations. That is to say, a Guru-Disciple relationship is assumed. The problem here is, that the TM movement is not at all upfront that this is the case. They are not telling, that Maharishi is our guru, but he is supposed only to be the founder of TM, at least publicly. Now, hence the confusion. Now, with regard to Maharishi being 'Guru', if he is a Guru to the TM people involved, to what people exactly? All TM teachers? Also TM teachers who are not really teachers anymore? And: Do they know this? Next: if we assume, that Maharishi is a guru to the people, which is not publicly said, it would be still possible, that people see different saints, as long as they don't take teaching from them, or rather as long as they don't become their disciples *simultaneausly*. There is an example often cited within TM, referring to Guru Dev, not seeing another saint or speaker, who comes to town, while all the Gurubhais go there. He stays in the Ashram, as his heart is completely filled with his master. Now a guest comes, nobody is in the Ashram to receive him, except Guru Dev, taking care of him, and finally the master finds out about the story, and viola, GD is just the most dedicated and devoted disciple. When citing this story, to TM teachers or sidhas, they usually forget to say: GD was having a relationship with his master that was personal throughout, he lived with him, he watched him daily, and he lived in his vibration. He had a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP to his master. But most people concerned from
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
Given the quite strong and substantial peer-review science on all this, it would seem these Raja evidently are holding back World Peace with their anti-saint dome policy done this way they do. These poor dome numbers here have long been the problem of this policy they are keeping. It is a shame and a time is come to change it. En lieu it would not be a bad thing to prosecute them all for crimes against humanity at the World Court of International Justice in the Hague. Their own research on meditating groups coupled with their miserable dome numbers would convict them. It is a sad case. A crime. The domes are full of people right now who have visited saints. Yep, evidently the Rajas have produced two domes full of liars. That is a bad feeling there as in, not a good feeling to have there underneath. These TM Rajas, that large Prime Minister in particular, push people to lie, hide and kiss ass to stay in the domes. I interviewed a person recently who was on the Mother Divine program, she remarked that to survive on Mother Divine they would all lie, hide and kiss-ass about this. In people's life the TM anti-saint policy is quite without conscience for people to participate. The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yes, it is really quite incredible that these TM Rajas should even be going against Guru Dev's very certain spiritual advice to make use of our time on earth particularly by being with saints. Oh Please! They are not going against Guru Dev, they are trying to follow the guidelines set up by Maharishi himself long ago. Now, leave Guru Dev out of this, we don't know what he would have said. MMY was entirely clear about all of this and never ever budged from his position. Maharishi was clear, at times. This policy, I know, has consolitated during the final period of his life, but it wasn't always the same. And Maharishi could make exceptions to this rule, as I already said, for example in Lelystad. I don't blame you if you don't know that, but he did budge from his position. But in setting up 'rules', he would have to teach the administration, and usually was strong about it, I agree. The Rajas have to decide to make changes that MMY never did He did. The rules before were different (for example before the Muktananda event), and he would make exceptions himself. Now, maybe Maharishi would have changed this rule by now, but don't blame the Rajas or anyone else. This rule came from Maharishi and he was BLUNT about it. I am sure he was blunt to the administration. Yet, as you say yourself, it may be time for a change. The Rajas had no problem skipping the always-wear-a-crown thing, or inviting Beatles back, and even more so, use them for publicity, something unthinkable when Maharishi was still alive. And they even loosened the saints rule a bit, don't forget, but what I suggest is, keep these changes logical and transparent. What is illogical? There is a common belief in India, that once you have found your Guru, you don't need anybody else, right? We have Maharishi, we don't need Ammachi (or whoever), thats what you would hear in private conversations. That is to say, a Guru-Disciple relationship is assumed. The problem here is, that the TM movement is not at all upfront that this is the case. They are not telling, that Maharishi is our guru, but he is supposed only to be the founder of TM, at least publicly. Now, hence the confusion. Now, with regard to Maharishi being 'Guru', if he is a Guru to the TM people involved, to what people exactly? All TM teachers? Also TM teachers who are not really teachers anymore? And: Do they know this? Next: if we assume, that Maharishi is a guru to the people, which is not publicly said, it would be still possible, that people see different saints, as long as they don't take teaching from them, or rather as long as they don't become their disciples *simultaneausly*. There is an example often cited within TM, referring to Guru
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: I especially like your point about having a guru disciple relationship - you nailed it. Without that relationship, these TMO rules seem really harsh and unreasonable. So we were asked to act as if we had this discipleship going on, but were not in much contact with MMY andc ertainly got no personal guidance. Personally, I hope they change the rules, but I am annoyed by Buck's ongoing blame of the Rajas for this rule. Nope, the problem is that these TM Rajas take it the way they do now; choosing to punish people with access to the dome over the anti-saint policy. They certainly have the power and authority to do it differently. So what do you think they should do differently? The policy, as I understand it, is meant to keep people who are learning different techniques or modifications to the techniques they already know, from practicing in the Domes. What exactly is your issue with the intent, here? L
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. And there is a belief/concern that people who are sitting with the saints are learning new practices that they will bring with them and practice in the Domes instead of the official TM and TM-Sidhis program. Do you understand that this is what the policy is meant to address? L.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: These TM Rajas, that large Prime Minister in particular, push people to lie, hide and kiss ass to stay in the domes. I interviewed a person recently who was on the Mother Divine program, she remarked that to survive on Mother Divine they would all lie, hide and kiss-ass about this. In people's life the TM anti-saint policy is quite without conscience for people to participate. Well, that''s definitely a problem, that people who are posing as something they are not, are posing as something they are not. I, on the other hand, try to be honest. It gets me into trouble on a regular basis, but at least I'm honest. Obviously, the people you talk to are very selfish, dishonest people. Sad, really. L
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
Buck you're aware that you're commenting on your own posts, right? L. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Given the quite strong and substantial peer-review science on all this, it would seem these Raja evidently are holding back World Peace with their anti-saint dome policy done this way they do. These poor dome numbers here have long been the problem of this policy they are keeping. It is a shame and a time is come to change it. En lieu it would not be a bad thing to prosecute them all for crimes against humanity at the World Court of International Justice in the Hague. Their own research on meditating groups coupled with their miserable dome numbers would convict them. It is a sad case. A crime. The domes are full of people right now who have visited saints. Yep, evidently the Rajas have produced two domes full of liars. That is a bad feeling there as in, not a good feeling to have there underneath. These TM Rajas, that large Prime Minister in particular, push people to lie, hide and kiss ass to stay in the domes. I interviewed a person recently who was on the Mother Divine program, she remarked that to survive on Mother Divine they would all lie, hide and kiss-ass about this. In people's life the TM anti-saint policy is quite without conscience for people to participate. The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yes, it is really quite incredible that these TM Rajas should even be going against Guru Dev's very certain spiritual advice to make use of our time on earth particularly by being with saints. Oh Please! They are not going against Guru Dev, they are trying to follow the guidelines set up by Maharishi himself long ago. Now, leave Guru Dev out of this, we don't know what he would have said. MMY was entirely clear about all of this and never ever budged from his position. Maharishi was clear, at times. This policy, I know, has consolitated during the final period of his life, but it wasn't always the same. And Maharishi could make exceptions to this rule, as I already said, for example in Lelystad. I don't blame you if you don't know that, but he did budge from his position. But in setting up 'rules', he would have to teach the administration, and usually was strong about it, I agree. The Rajas have to decide to make changes that MMY never did He did. The rules before were different (for example before the Muktananda event), and he would make exceptions himself. Now, maybe Maharishi would have changed this rule by now, but don't blame the Rajas or anyone else. This rule came from Maharishi and he was BLUNT about it. I am sure he was blunt to the administration. Yet, as you say yourself, it may be time for a change. The Rajas had no problem skipping the always-wear-a-crown thing, or inviting Beatles back, and even more so, use them for publicity, something unthinkable when Maharishi was still alive. And they even loosened the saints rule a bit, don't forget, but what I suggest is, keep these changes logical and transparent. What is illogical? There is a common belief in India, that once you have found your Guru, you don't need anybody else, right? We have Maharishi, we don't need Ammachi (or whoever), thats what you would hear in private conversations. That is to say, a Guru-Disciple relationship is assumed. The problem here is, that the TM movement is not at all upfront that this is the case. They are not telling, that Maharishi is our guru, but he is supposed only to be the founder of TM, at least publicly. Now, hence the confusion. Now, with regard to Maharishi being 'Guru', if he is a Guru to the TM people involved, to what people exactly? All TM teachers? Also TM teachers who are not really teachers anymore? And: Do they know this?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
Your overblown rhetoric is part of the problem. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Yep, evidently the Rajas have produced two domes full of liars. That is a bad feeling there as in, not a good feeling to have there underneath. These TM Rajas, that large Prime Minister in particular, push people to lie, hide and kiss ass to stay in the domes. I interviewed a person recently who was on the Mother Divine program, she remarked that to survive on Mother Divine they would all lie, hide and kiss-ass about this. In people's life the TM anti-saint policy is quite without conscience for people to participate. The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yes, it is really quite incredible that these TM Rajas should even be going against Guru Dev's very certain spiritual advice to make use of our time on earth particularly by being with saints. Oh Please! They are not going against Guru Dev, they are trying to follow the guidelines set up by Maharishi himself long ago. Now, leave Guru Dev out of this, we don't know what he would have said. MMY was entirely clear about all of this and never ever budged from his position. Maharishi was clear, at times. This policy, I know, has consolitated during the final period of his life, but it wasn't always the same. And Maharishi could make exceptions to this rule, as I already said, for example in Lelystad. I don't blame you if you don't know that, but he did budge from his position. But in setting up 'rules', he would have to teach the administration, and usually was strong about it, I agree. The Rajas have to decide to make changes that MMY never did He did. The rules before were different (for example before the Muktananda event), and he would make exceptions himself. Now, maybe Maharishi would have changed this rule by now, but don't blame the Rajas or anyone else. This rule came from Maharishi and he was BLUNT about it. I am sure he was blunt to the administration. Yet, as you say yourself, it may be time for a change. The Rajas had no problem skipping the always-wear-a-crown thing, or inviting Beatles back, and even more so, use them for publicity, something unthinkable when Maharishi was still alive. And they even loosened the saints rule a bit, don't forget, but what I suggest is, keep these changes logical and transparent. What is illogical? There is a common belief in India, that once you have found your Guru, you don't need anybody else, right? We have Maharishi, we don't need Ammachi (or whoever), thats what you would hear in private conversations. That is to say, a Guru-Disciple relationship is assumed. The problem here is, that the TM movement is not at all upfront that this is the case. They are not telling, that Maharishi is our guru, but he is supposed only to be the founder of TM, at least publicly. Now, hence the confusion. Now, with regard to Maharishi being 'Guru', if he is a Guru to the TM people involved, to what people exactly? All TM teachers? Also TM teachers who are not really teachers anymore? And: Do they know this? Next: if we assume, that Maharishi is a guru to the people, which is not publicly said, it would be still possible, that people see different saints, as long as they don't take teaching from them, or rather as long as they don't become their disciples *simultaneausly*. There is an example often cited within TM, referring to Guru Dev, not seeing another saint or speaker, who comes to town, while all the Gurubhais go there. He stays in the Ashram, as his heart is completely filled with his master. Now a guest comes, nobody is in the Ashram to receive him, except Guru Dev, taking care of him, and finally the master finds out about the story, and viola, GD is just the most dedicated and devoted disciple. When citing this story, to TM teachers or sidhas, they usually forget to say: GD was having a relationship with his master that was personal throughout, he lived with him, he watched him daily, and he lived in his vibration. He had a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: Those irritate me as well, as it happens. I don't see any malign intent at manipulation here. An intent to manipulate isn't necessarily malign, and I wasn't suggesting malice on his part. He just wants folks to read everything he writes, and he's willing to inconvenience us to make that happen. Well, he is at it again, so you clearly have a point there. I am not sure, but he seems rather emotional about this issue, so it is as if he wants to 'shout' it into the world. Maybe he really is fed up with the Rajas and thinks this way he will be heard. snip Lawson happens to be here again, BTW. Not sure you're aware of that. He pops in from time to time, stays for awhile, then pops out. I am aware of him. BTW, thanks for not conducting this disagreement in a disrespectful manner. That's all too rare around here. Well, thank you too. I'll try to keep it that way, but I can't promise I'm always able to.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: May I ask about your TM background? I'm in every way a longtime Ex. How did you get here? Through the net. snip I do wonder a bit, BTW, about his assertion that the TMO insiders all read and ponder FFL. I am too long away, and have never been on that administrative level. So much of what goes on here isn't even remotely relevant to their concerns. I know that they keep lists of people, for example TM teachers, and carefully screen in what relationship they are to the TM movement. They have a file of everyone, who once was a teacher, and probably the same about sidhas. According to this, they determine if somebody is eligable for courses or not. They would know somebody is an indepenend teacher for example, if somebody is associated with other teachers, etc, as far as they can get hold of such information. I don't know exactly, how they gather information, but if they are somewhat similar to any secret service, it would be obvious to screen the internet, to look at the facebook sites, to look at forums like this. It is also clear since some time now, that they consciously use the internet now, to post comments to journals, use twitter a lot for announcing movement events etc. For them to screen a forum like this would be essential in several ways: See what's going on in public opinion, it of course doesn't mean they react to it directly..But also to keep watch at their 'sheep', to see who is critical, or negative, to update their black lists. I also don't think, that top decission makers read it all directly, I am sure that Bevan wants to keep a distance about all the negative stuff that is written about him, but there are enough others who can do that IOW i don't know if and how the observe this forum, it would be logical to do it on some level, but I know they are keeping files about everyone, and that there is more in those files than just your last movement contact. One of them would have to go through and pick out only the posts of TMO interest and then circulate them to the others. Search functions exist. I have noticed that some Purushas spend quite some time on the net. That may be completely private, but there are no frontiers in the net, I guess there is a natural curiosity as well. Possible, I suppose, but I'm not sure it's all that likely. When has the conservative element, in particular, in the TMO ever cared about what a bunch of renegades think? Just to know who those renegades are.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Yes, it is really quite incredible that these TM Rajas should even be going against Guru Dev's very certain spiritual advice to make use of our time on earth particularly by being with saints. Oh Please! They are not going against Guru Dev, they are trying to follow the guidelines set up by Maharishi himself long ago. MMY was entirely clear about all of this and never ever budged from his position. The Rajas have to decide to make changes that MMY never did Now, maybe Maharishi would have changed this rule by now, but don't blame the Rajas or anyone else. This rule came from Maharishi and he was BLUNT about it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: The science is pretty compelling now that the TM Rajas are themselves in the way of World Peace with the dome numbers. *Maharishi Said*: Well, you see, it is like this. Absolutely everything is fixed, and absolutely everything can be changed at any time. (Maharishi - Squaw Valley, 1968 ) The TM Rajas chose to see it this way they do. They could also chose to do it differently. They could certainly de-link sitting with saints from getting a current dome badge. These Raja are certainly in the way of the dome meditation numbers in their linking sitting with saints with having a dome badge. The TM Rajas are clearly in the way of World Peace on this. It is that simple. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: And that's the reason you were admitted. They may want to punish you, with the programs you already learned, but didn't sign you off as a potential customer. It is true, there is an ambient aspect of fear there over 'place'. As I interview people folks do speak to that bad feeling of fear in the dome as a thing that gets pointed to as a reason by people who don't like meditating in the domes who are not going to the domes. It is a feeling. That there is an ambient fear in the place because of the essential culture of the movement administration for so long. The way people describe it, fear is like a marination in the meditation. That is sad and evidently an old problem as the dome numbers with the community show. The other evening, I was struck by noticing the hundreds of people there in the dome who have dome badges in defiance of the Rajas' anti-saint policy. At the Maharaja lecture which ostensibly was a 'badge-only' meeting, there are a lot of people who are much worse than I ever have been in seeing saints. The scale of it is laughable ironic except that it is sad. But there are just a whole lot of rank-and-file saint-seeing folks there meditating in the domes who like being there who could lose their dome badges in a moment over a whisper. There are national leaders of most all the saints in the dome there with current valid dome badges and a lot of saint-seeing meditators generally are on the Howard Settle Foundation assembly stipend getting paid to actually be in the dome. At $850 a month, that Settle foundation money is extremely important income for keeping many old-time old meditators living here too. Folks may risk their employment or housing otherwise too besides the dome badge having sat with saints. The TM-taliban Raja use of fear as punishment is a bad state of affair here that the TM-taliban have had with people's meditation. It's a bad energy there that is palpable.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yes, it is really quite incredible that these TM Rajas should even be going against Guru Dev's very certain spiritual advice to make use of our time on earth particularly by being with saints. Oh Please! They are not going against Guru Dev, they are trying to follow the guidelines set up by Maharishi himself long ago. Now, leave Guru Dev out of this, we don't know what he would have said. MMY was entirely clear about all of this and never ever budged from his position. Maharishi was clear, at times. This policy, I know, has consolitated during the final period of his life, but it wasn't always the same. And Maharishi could make exceptions to this rule, as I already said, for example in Lelystad. I don't blame you if you don't know that, but he did budge from his position. But in setting up 'rules', he would have to teach the administration, and usually was strong about it, I agree. The Rajas have to decide to make changes that MMY never did He did. The rules before were different (for example before the Muktananda event), and he would make exceptions himself. Now, maybe Maharishi would have changed this rule by now, but don't blame the Rajas or anyone else. This rule came from Maharishi and he was BLUNT about it. I am sure he was blunt to the administration. Yet, as you say yourself, it may be time for a change. The Rajas had no problem skipping the always-wear-a-crown thing, or inviting Beatles back, and even more so, use them for publicity, something unthinkable when Maharishi was still alive. And they even loosened the saints rule a bit, don't forget, but what I suggest is, keep these changes logical and transparent. What is illogical? There is a common belief in India, that once you have found your Guru, you don't need anybody else, right? We have Maharishi, we don't need Ammachi (or whoever), thats what you would hear in private conversations. That is to say, a Guru-Disciple relationship is assumed. The problem here is, that the TM movement is not at all upfront that this is the case. They are not telling, that Maharishi is our guru, but he is supposed only to be the founder of TM, at least publicly. Now, hence the confusion. Now, with regard to Maharishi being 'Guru', if he is a Guru to the TM people involved, to what people exactly? All TM teachers? Also TM teachers who are not really teachers anymore? And: Do they know this? Next: if we assume, that Maharishi is a guru to the people, which is not publicly said, it would be still possible, that people see different saints, as long as they don't take teaching from them, or rather as long as they don't become their disciples *simultaneausly*. There is an example often cited within TM, referring to Guru Dev, not seeing another saint or speaker, who comes to town, while all the Gurubhais go there. He stays in the Ashram, as his heart is completely filled with his master. Now a guest comes, nobody is in the Ashram to receive him, except Guru Dev, taking care of him, and finally the master finds out about the story, and viola, GD is just the most dedicated and devoted disciple. When citing this story, to TM teachers or sidhas, they usually forget to say: GD was having a relationship with his master that was personal throughout, he lived with him, he watched him daily, and he lived in his vibration. He had a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP to his master. But most people concerned from these policies, may even never have seen Maharishi, or any enlightened at all! That is what Buck is pointing out completely rightly: GD says it is very important to seek the company of saints! But, not being able to see Maharishi anymore, or even ever, the people are deprived from this. And then: in the example cited above, GD was so devoted that he stayed in the Ashram, while all others saw the saint/speaker. Do you notice two things? There was NO RULE in the Ashram to not see other saints, they did so with permission. And second, when GD stayed, he did so OUT OF HIS OWN WILL, out of his spontaneous devotion, not an IMPOSED SHOW OF DEVOTION. Two elements are present here: sponatneity of devotion, and I think that is the only devotion worth considering, and a real and lively guru-disciple relationship. Now, consider yourself: is this the case in TM? Obviously not for most people, obviously less so for more and more people since Maharishi withdrew in Holland, and since time passes ofter his demiss. There will come a time, not too far away, where there will be nobody anymore, who has a living memory of Maharishi. If you keep the rules up like this, you will be just a cult.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yes, it is really quite incredible that these TM Rajas should even be going against Guru Dev's very certain spiritual advice to make use of our time on earth particularly by being with saints. Oh Please! They are not going against Guru Dev, they are trying to follow the guidelines set up by Maharishi himself long ago. Now, leave Guru Dev out of this, we don't know what he would have said. MMY was entirely clear about all of this and never ever budged from his position. Maharishi was clear, at times. This policy, I know, has consolitated during the final period of his life, but it wasn't always the same. And Maharishi could make exceptions to this rule, as I already said, for example in Lelystad. I don't blame you if you don't know that, but he did budge from his position. But in setting up 'rules', he would have to teach the administration, and usually was strong about it, I agree. The Rajas have to decide to make changes that MMY never did He did. The rules before were different (for example before the Muktananda event), and he would make exceptions himself. Now, maybe Maharishi would have changed this rule by now, but don't blame the Rajas or anyone else. This rule came from Maharishi and he was BLUNT about it. I am sure he was blunt to the administration. Yet, as you say yourself, it may be time for a change. The Rajas had no problem skipping the always-wear-a-crown thing, or inviting Beatles back, and even more so, use them for publicity, something unthinkable when Maharishi was still alive. And they even loosened the saints rule a bit, don't forget, but what I suggest is, keep these changes logical and transparent. What is illogical? There is a common belief in India, that once you have found your Guru, you don't need anybody else, right? We have Maharishi, we don't need Ammachi (or whoever), thats what you would hear in private conversations. That is to say, a Guru-Disciple relationship is assumed. The problem here is, that the TM movement is not at all upfront that this is the case. They are not telling, that Maharishi is our guru, but he is supposed only to be the founder of TM, at least publicly. Now, hence the confusion. Now, with regard to Maharishi being 'Guru', if he is a Guru to the TM people involved, to what people exactly? All TM teachers? Also TM teachers who are not really teachers anymore? And: Do they know this? Next: if we assume, that Maharishi is a guru to the people, which is not publicly said, it would be still possible, that people see different saints, as long as they don't take teaching from them, or rather as long as they don't become their disciples *simultaneausly*. There is an example often cited within TM, referring to Guru Dev, not seeing another saint or speaker, who comes to town, while all the Gurubhais go there. He stays in the Ashram, as his heart is completely filled with his master. Now a guest comes, nobody is in the Ashram to receive him, except Guru Dev, taking care of him, and finally the master finds out about the story, and viola, GD is just the most dedicated and devoted disciple. When citing this story, to TM teachers or sidhas, they usually forget to say: GD was having a relationship with his master that was personal throughout, he lived with him, he watched him daily, and he lived in his vibration. He had a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP to his master. But most people concerned from these policies, may even never have seen Maharishi, or any enlightened at all! That is what Buck is pointing out completely rightly: GD says it is very important to seek the company of saints! But, not being able to see Maharishi anymore, or even ever, the people are deprived from this. And then: in the example cited above, GD was so devoted that he stayed in the Ashram, while all others saw the saint/speaker. Do you notice two things? There was NO RULE in the Ashram to not see other saints, they did so with permission. And second, when GD stayed, he did so OUT OF HIS OWN WILL, out of his spontaneous devotion, not an IMPOSED SHOW OF DEVOTION. Two elements are present here: sponatneity of devotion, and I think that is the only devotion worth considering, and a real and lively guru-disciple relationship. Now, consider yourself: is this the case in TM? Obviously not for most people, obviously less so for more and more people since Maharishi withdrew in Holland, and since time passes ofter his demiss. There will come a time, not too far away, where there will be nobody anymore, who has a living memory of Maharishi. If you keep the rules up like this, you will be just a cult. Excellent points and I
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@... wrote: [...] Excellent points and I agree on all counts. I know that my response was coming from trying thru several posts over a long length of time - to get Buck to see that this is not a Raja problem, it is a policy that began with MMY. You may have heard him budge on it, but I was in and around for a long time and he was always crystal clear about not going to see other saints, and it was open knowledge for all teachers. You knew that if you did this and got seen, you could not attend courses or get advanced techniques or go to the Domes. I don't agree with that, but my point is that it was clear. I especially like your point about having a guru disciple relationship - you nailed it. Without that relationship, these TMO rules seem really harsh and unreasonable. So we were asked to act as if we had this discipleship going on, but were not in much contact with MMY andc ertainly got no personal guidance. Personally, I hope they change the rules, but I am annoyed by Buck's ongoing blame of the Rajas for this rule. I don't see it as harsh, just strict. And in fact, the average non-believer understands perfectly: MMY believed that group meditation and Yogic Flying *as HE taught it, would have a beneficial effect on the world. He wanted to ensure that everyone would be doing the exact same techniques for maximum synergistic effect, and when Robin Carlsen started to give people advice on how to improve their practices, he and the MUM/MIU administration put their foot down: visit another teacher, and get banned from group practice in the Domes at Fairfield. As far as I know, this ban doesn't affect people living anywhere except in Fairfield, and I assume, the other Really Big group flying places, like the Brhamasthan in India. When I explain the situation to people THAT way, they go, well duh. They don't believe or agree or whatever, but see precisely why the rule exists and is enforced so carefully. If you REALLY believe in that kind of thing, it would be immoral NOT to have rules like that in place. L.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
The TM-conservative element inside evidently has the stronger hand over the progressive TM'ers. The progressives get tolerated as much as they are in that they are productive at teaching TM through Hagelin's work over with David Lynch Foundation. Lynch is interesting in this because his works are extra-territorial in his foundation. Lynch does not have to go through Bevan so much; yet, Hagelin can't just do things by himself without bringing the TM0 conservatives along. So as you say, mode is in a range between membership that is practitioner-client based on the one hand and discipleship-cult on the other. It's a good analysis. -Buck in FF --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Zarzari786, I have just come through a long and arduous interview probing process in re-applying for a dome badge. Much of the consideration was around this client-centered vs. membership-cult as you frame it. It was very much around the difference between client practitioners and membership devotee types. That is a fair distinction within TM. On the one hand we got some more progressive people who tend to be more over in the Hagelin camp who would like to see it work out for practitioners, while on the other hand are the more strict preservationists around Bevan. Some of these later conservatives are like the Taliban in that they are ruthless in their position. The progressives are more sympathetic towards working it out for practitioner-clients. Right now the Bevan-ista doctrinaire disciples have more power than the Hagelin-ites. -Buck Zarzari, they do play hardball at this and there is lots of yelling going on. A risk is that if anybody wanting/needing to be on the inside would really persuasively argue for progressive change in the movement guidelines along the lines of a client-centered hosting as you describe, the Bevan-istas could just pack the bags of those people and 'out' them. There is still a web of dependence this way that gets pulled. Within this the preservationists at all costs is really where the cult is. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Zarzari786 excellent critique here. And, welcome too to FFL. Fairfieldlife is proly the best place to give input to the TMO from the outside as it does get read and digested by everybody inside. -Buck --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: Hi all, I couldn't agree more with what you say here. If Adiraj, Maharaj, whatever is anything close to a Maharishi successor, he should go out and make a lecture tour about TM, or whatever they think they have to offer. He should be able to publicly stand for the program, embody it to everyone. This is what the Maharishi did. TM started out as a client cult, that is to say, it was not based on membership, discipleship, but rather directed to the general public, you simply could sign up for courses. The same was true for Ayurveda, which did not require TM membership, and many other programs that followed. Now TM is more and more like a membership club, more like a traditional religion. Compare that 'badge' approach to, lets say Ammachi, Karunamayi, Mother Meera and others, where anyone can come, anyone has access. Now that openess is the new style. TM at it's time was new style, client centered, but has sort of regressed into more of a membership cult. The new thing in this time is something completely open, there are too many things out there, too many meditations which you can pick. Any kind of elitism will not work. People select from different sources and pick what suits them best. And that is how it should be. And for me, openness, like open source is a precondition. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Sounds really good - glad you were able to go. Yep, I have to thank Raja John Hagelin for granting me an exemption to attend the meeting. It was very nice . Thank you for providing this information, Buck. I was going to ask how someone who was recently turned down for a dome pass got to attend. And I'm happy that you *got* to attend, if you found it valuable or meaningful. Really. But doesn't it just say it all that a knowledge meeting, the purpose of which is to supposedly disseminate Maharishi's wisdom (second-hand though it may be) to those who could benefit from it, could be or should ever be conceived of as only for those we deem worthy of it? And then having that concept *enforced*? I mean, this is spiritual
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
Judy, this is an example of Buck piling onto his own comments in a progression as his thoughts develop over a course of several days. I just want to point this out as another example of self-commenting, where I don't really see any attempt at manipulation. I do think that Buck is giving us some valuable information about the internal workings of the movement at present. As I also have, occasionally, other sources of information, my feeling is that his assessments are quite correct. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: The TM-conservative element inside evidently has the stronger hand over the progressive TM'ers. The progressives get tolerated as much as they are in that they are productive at teaching TM through Hagelin's work over with David Lynch Foundation. Lynch is interesting in this because his works are extra-territorial in his foundation. Lynch does not have to go through Bevan so much; yet, Hagelin can't just do things by himself without bringing the TM0 conservatives along. So as you say, mode is in a range between membership that is practitioner-client based on the one hand and discipleship-cult on the other. It's a good analysis. -Buck in FF --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Zarzari786, I have just come through a long and arduous interview probing process in re-applying for a dome badge. Much of the consideration was around this client-centered vs. membership-cult as you frame it. It was very much around the difference between client practitioners and membership devotee types. That is a fair distinction within TM. On the one hand we got some more progressive people who tend to be more over in the Hagelin camp who would like to see it work out for practitioners, while on the other hand are the more strict preservationists around Bevan. Some of these later conservatives are like the Taliban in that they are ruthless in their position. The progressives are more sympathetic towards working it out for practitioner-clients. Right now the Bevan-ista doctrinaire disciples have more power than the Hagelin-ites. -Buck Zarzari, they do play hardball at this and there is lots of yelling going on. A risk is that if anybody wanting/needing to be on the inside would really persuasively argue for progressive change in the movement guidelines along the lines of a client-centered hosting as you describe, the Bevan-istas could just pack the bags of those people and 'out' them. There is still a web of dependence this way that gets pulled. Within this the preservationists at all costs is really where the cult is. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Zarzari786 excellent critique here. And, welcome too to FFL. Fairfieldlife is proly the best place to give input to the TMO from the outside as it does get read and digested by everybody inside. -Buck --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: Hi all, I couldn't agree more with what you say here. If Adiraj, Maharaj, whatever is anything close to a Maharishi successor, he should go out and make a lecture tour about TM, or whatever they think they have to offer. He should be able to publicly stand for the program, embody it to everyone. This is what the Maharishi did. TM started out as a client cult, that is to say, it was not based on membership, discipleship, but rather directed to the general public, you simply could sign up for courses. The same was true for Ayurveda, which did not require TM membership, and many other programs that followed. Now TM is more and more like a membership club, more like a traditional religion. Compare that 'badge' approach to, lets say Ammachi, Karunamayi, Mother Meera and others, where anyone can come, anyone has access. Now that openess is the new style. TM at it's time was new style, client centered, but has sort of regressed into more of a membership cult. The new thing in this time is something completely open, there are too many things out there, too many meditations which you can pick. Any kind of elitism will not work. People select from different sources and pick what suits them best. And that is how it should be. And for me, openness, like open source is a precondition. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Sounds really good - glad you were able to go. Yep, I have to thank Raja John Hagelin for granting me an exemption to attend the meeting. It was very nice .
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@... wrote: Judy, this is an example of Buck piling onto his own comments in a progression as his thoughts develop over a course of several days. I just want to point this out as another example of self-commenting, where I don't really see any attempt at manipulation. I don't see any attempt at manipulation in this sequence either. It's the one- or two-sentence-per-post deals one right after another, in which each post is just a continuation of a single train of thought rather than an expansion/elaboration of a previous one, that bug me. Many of us from time to time will have second thoughts and comment on one of our previous posts. Also, in this case, something happened between his second and third posts in the series: he went through a badge-application interview and was reporting back to you on that, so that accounts for one instance of the piggybacking. I do think that Buck is giving us some valuable information about the internal workings of the movement at present. Most assuredly. Your insights are valuable as well. May I ask about your TM background? How did you get here? Just curious; no need to respond if you're not so inclined. As I also have, occasionally, other sources of information, my feeling is that his assessments are quite correct. I don't have any other sources, but I have no reason to think that we're being misled. I do wonder a bit, BTW, about his assertion that the TMO insiders all read and ponder FFL. So much of what goes on here isn't even remotely relevant to their concerns. One of them would have to go through and pick out only the posts of TMO interest and then circulate them to the others. Possible, I suppose, but I'm not sure it's all that likely. When has the conservative element, in particular, in the TMO ever cared about what a bunch of renegades think? What's your assessment on that score? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The TM-conservative element inside evidently has the stronger hand over the progressive TM'ers. The progressives get tolerated as much as they are in that they are productive at teaching TM through Hagelin's work over with David Lynch Foundation. Lynch is interesting in this because his works are extra-territorial in his foundation. Lynch does not have to go through Bevan so much; yet, Hagelin can't just do things by himself without bringing the TM0 conservatives along. So as you say, mode is in a range between membership that is practitioner-client based on the one hand and discipleship-cult on the other. It's a good analysis. -Buck in FF --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Zarzari786, I have just come through a long and arduous interview probing process in re-applying for a dome badge. Much of the consideration was around this client-centered vs. membership-cult as you frame it. It was very much around the difference between client practitioners and membership devotee types. That is a fair distinction within TM. On the one hand we got some more progressive people who tend to be more over in the Hagelin camp who would like to see it work out for practitioners, while on the other hand are the more strict preservationists around Bevan. Some of these later conservatives are like the Taliban in that they are ruthless in their position. The progressives are more sympathetic towards working it out for practitioner-clients. Right now the Bevan-ista doctrinaire disciples have more power than the Hagelin-ites. -Buck Zarzari, they do play hardball at this and there is lots of yelling going on. A risk is that if anybody wanting/needing to be on the inside would really persuasively argue for progressive change in the movement guidelines along the lines of a client-centered hosting as you describe, the Bevan-istas could just pack the bags of those people and 'out' them. There is still a web of dependence this way that gets pulled. Within this the preservationists at all costs is really where the cult is. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Zarzari786 excellent critique here. And, welcome too to FFL. Fairfieldlife is proly the best place to give input to the TMO from the outside as it does get read and digested by everybody inside. -Buck --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: Hi all, I couldn't agree more with what you say here. If Adiraj, Maharaj, whatever is anything close to a Maharishi successor, he should go out and make a lecture tour about TM, or whatever they think they have to offer. He should be able to publicly stand for the program, embody it to everyone. This is what the Maharishi did. TM started out
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
This should be discussed separately... Has anyone ever explained to the saints that visit Fairfield that the issue exists, and why it exists in the first place? I have a funny feeling that a lot of the visiting saints would be very incensed with the people who invite them to Fairfield if they learned that they were at the heart of the controversy without being informed of the whole story... L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: [...] People seem to forget that the original reason to ban dealing with other teachers was Robin Carlsen's antics. My own belief is that a large portion of the saints that visit Fairfield, if they understood the history and reasons behind the ban, would be sympathetic to the ban and actually stop visiting Fairfield. L.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip The A of E and Chopra technique is a real departure from Maharishi's usual schtick. Can you imagine the initiator's answer to any question from another system that described this practice? It would get labeled superficial moodmaking before they were done describing it. Exactly. You nailed it again. As teachers, we were taught *explicitly* how to demonize such guided meditation techniques and present them as so, so, SO much less than the TM technique. As I remember, TM apologists on this forum (TM teachers or just wannabees) have done so as well. But I'm betting we'll hear hear nary a peep from any of them about the efficacy of this official new TMO product. Which is curious in a way, because this technique seems to me to be the very *antithesis* of the natural tendency of the mind aspect of TM. The whole point seems to be following what you are told to think about and where to put your focus, as opposed to TM's take it easy, take it as it comes approach. By releasing such a guided medi- tation, the TMO has effectively undercut its own PR and sales spiels about its primary product, TM. Uh, no. In the first place, as Curtis correctly notes (and Barry completely misses), it's hardly the first such technique taught in the TMO. Even the TM-Sidhis don't conform to the natural tendency of the mind approach. In the second place, it's an *ancillary* technique (as are the others) that would presumably be significantly less effective if one weren't also transcending regularly with TM. So it doesn't undercut a thing about TM per se. Barry and Curtis are grasping at straws. And they both know better. Caveat: I make no claims whatsoever for the Vedic Physiology course's effectiveness. I'm just calling attention to the fact that these guys are so painfully eager to diss it that they aren't thinking straight. My bet is that if, at some future time, the TMO powers-that-be introduce some technique that involves actual focus or concentration (as did many of the techniques that SBS actually taught), we'll hear a similar resounding silence from those who have vehe- mently decried such practices over the years. Notice how Barry courageously makes a bet about something he knows is vanishingly unlikely to happen. And if it *did* happen, it would blow away his repeated smug predictions that nothing new can ever come out of the TMO. But taking that bet on its own terms: If a concentration technique were introduced to *take the place* of plain-vanilla TM, you'd hear howls of outrage from here to Mars. If it were an *ancillary* technique, most likely not so much (assuming the explanation of how it was said to work were convincingly integrated with basic TM theory).
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: Has anyone ever explained to the saints that visit Fairfield that the issue exists, The issue, that many are not allowed to visit them? They know since a long time. and why it exists in the first place? Well, it would be hard for me to explain this, because I don't understand it myself. Do you mean Rick should step up to Ammachi, and say something like: 'Amma, you should not visit Fairfield anymore, TM Rajas don't like it, and you are having a bad influence on TB TMers.'? I think, that if you feel chosen, why don't you visit them and explain, after all you stand behind it. Go, see Ammachi and tell her, that is if you dare. It is like the Vatican explaining to the TM people they should stay away from Rome, because it's their territory. I have a funny feeling that a lot of the visiting saints would be very incensed with the people who invite them to Fairfield if they learned that they were at the heart of the controversy without being informed of the whole story... You mean incensed by the TM people who invite them (how you know it's 'TM-people'?) or the TM Rajas? Quite honestly neither. Their approach is that anyone can see them who has a desire and need to do so. No badches needed and direct access possible.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: Has anyone ever explained to the saints that visit Fairfield that the issue exists, The issue, that many are not allowed to visit them? They know since a long time. and why it exists in the first place? Well, it would be hard for me to explain this, because I don't understand it myself. Do you mean Rick should step up to Ammachi, and say something like: 'Amma, you should not visit Fairfield anymore, TM Rajas don't like it, and you are having a bad influence on TB TMers.'? I think, that if you feel chosen, why don't you visit them and explain, after all you stand behind it. Go, see Ammachi and tell her, that is if you dare. I don't live in Fairfield, but the ban, as far as I know, goes back to Robin Carlsen's antics. It is like the Vatican explaining to the TM people they should stay away from Rome, because it's their territory. I have a funny feeling that a lot of the visiting saints would be very incensed with the people who invite them to Fairfield if they learned that they were at the heart of the controversy without being informed of the whole story... You mean incensed by the TM people who invite them (how you know it's 'TM-people'?) or the TM Rajas? Quite honestly neither. Their approach is that anyone can see them who has a desire and need to do so. No badches needed and direct access possible. And do they know why there is the issue and what the result is? L.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
The TM Rajas chose to see it the way they do. They could also chose to do it differently. They could certainly de-link sitting with saints from getting a current dome badge. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: And that's the reason you were admitted. They may want to punish you, with the programs you already learned, but didn't sign you off as a potential customer. It is true, there is an ambient aspect of fear there over 'place'. As I interview people folks do speak to that bad feeling of fear in the dome as a thing that gets pointed to as a reason by people who don't like meditating in the domes who are not going to the domes. It is a feeling. That there is an ambient fear in the place because of the essential culture of the movement administration for so long. The way people describe it, fear is like a marination in the meditation. That is sad and evidently an old problem as the dome numbers with the community show. The other evening, I was struck by noticing the hundreds of people there in the dome who have dome badges in defiance of the Rajas' anti-saint policy. At the Maharaja lecture which ostensibly was a 'badge-only' meeting, there are a lot of people who are much worse than I ever have been in seeing saints. The scale of it is laughable ironic except that it is sad. But there are just a whole lot of rank-and-file saint-seeing folks there meditating in the domes who like being there who could lose their dome badges in a moment over a whisper. There are national leaders of most all the saints in the dome there with current valid dome badges and a lot of saint-seeing meditators generally are on the Howard Settle Foundation assembly stipend getting paid to actually be in the dome. At $850 a month, that Settle foundation money is extremely important income for keeping many old-time old meditators living here too. Folks may risk their employment or housing otherwise too besides the dome badge having sat with saints. The TM-taliban Raja use of fear as punishment is a bad state of affair here that the TM-taliban have had with people's meditation. It's a bad energy there that is palpable.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
*Maharishi Said*: Well, you see, it is like this. Absolutely everything is fixed, and absolutely everything can be changed at any time. (Maharishi - Squaw Valley, 1968 ) The TM Rajas chose to see it the way they do. They could also chose to do it differently. They could certainly de-link sitting with saints from getting a current dome badge. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: And that's the reason you were admitted. They may want to punish you, with the programs you already learned, but didn't sign you off as a potential customer. It is true, there is an ambient aspect of fear there over 'place'. As I interview people folks do speak to that bad feeling of fear in the dome as a thing that gets pointed to as a reason by people who don't like meditating in the domes who are not going to the domes. It is a feeling. That there is an ambient fear in the place because of the essential culture of the movement administration for so long. The way people describe it, fear is like a marination in the meditation. That is sad and evidently an old problem as the dome numbers with the community show. The other evening, I was struck by noticing the hundreds of people there in the dome who have dome badges in defiance of the Rajas' anti-saint policy. At the Maharaja lecture which ostensibly was a 'badge-only' meeting, there are a lot of people who are much worse than I ever have been in seeing saints. The scale of it is laughable ironic except that it is sad. But there are just a whole lot of rank-and-file saint-seeing folks there meditating in the domes who like being there who could lose their dome badges in a moment over a whisper. There are national leaders of most all the saints in the dome there with current valid dome badges and a lot of saint-seeing meditators generally are on the Howard Settle Foundation assembly stipend getting paid to actually be in the dome. At $850 a month, that Settle foundation money is extremely important income for keeping many old-time old meditators living here too. Folks may risk their employment or housing otherwise too besides the dome badge having sat with saints. The TM-taliban Raja use of fear as punishment is a bad state of affair here that the TM-taliban have had with people's meditation. It's a bad energy there that is palpable.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
The science is pretty compelling now that the TM Rajas are themselves in the way of World Peace with the dome numbers. *Maharishi Said*: Well, you see, it is like this. Absolutely everything is fixed, and absolutely everything can be changed at any time. (Maharishi - Squaw Valley, 1968 ) The TM Rajas chose to see it the way they do. They could also chose to do it differently. They could certainly de-link sitting with saints from getting a current dome badge. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: And that's the reason you were admitted. They may want to punish you, with the programs you already learned, but didn't sign you off as a potential customer. It is true, there is an ambient aspect of fear there over 'place'. As I interview people folks do speak to that bad feeling of fear in the dome as a thing that gets pointed to as a reason by people who don't like meditating in the domes who are not going to the domes. It is a feeling. That there is an ambient fear in the place because of the essential culture of the movement administration for so long. The way people describe it, fear is like a marination in the meditation. That is sad and evidently an old problem as the dome numbers with the community show. The other evening, I was struck by noticing the hundreds of people there in the dome who have dome badges in defiance of the Rajas' anti-saint policy. At the Maharaja lecture which ostensibly was a 'badge-only' meeting, there are a lot of people who are much worse than I ever have been in seeing saints. The scale of it is laughable ironic except that it is sad. But there are just a whole lot of rank-and-file saint-seeing folks there meditating in the domes who like being there who could lose their dome badges in a moment over a whisper. There are national leaders of most all the saints in the dome there with current valid dome badges and a lot of saint-seeing meditators generally are on the Howard Settle Foundation assembly stipend getting paid to actually be in the dome. At $850 a month, that Settle foundation money is extremely important income for keeping many old-time old meditators living here too. Folks may risk their employment or housing otherwise too besides the dome badge having sat with saints. The TM-taliban Raja use of fear as punishment is a bad state of affair here that the TM-taliban have had with people's meditation. It's a bad energy there that is palpable.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: Has anyone ever explained to the saints that visit Fairfield that the issue exists, The issue, that many are not allowed to visit them? They know since a long time. and why it exists in the first place? snip I don't live in Fairfield, but the ban, as far as I know, goes back to Robin Carlsen's antics. snip And do they know why there is the issue and what the result is? L. Look, the baby has fallen into the water a long time ago. I don't know who Robin Carlsen is, and his antics, and I don't want to know, and if you are telling me now, it comes sort of 20 years too late. What a joker!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
The science is pretty compelling now that the TM Rajas are themselves in the way of World Peace with the dome numbers. *Maharishi Said*: Well, you see, it is like this. Absolutely everything is fixed, and absolutely everything can be changed at any time. (Maharishi - Squaw Valley, 1968 ) The TM Rajas chose to see it this way they do. They could also chose to do it differently. They could certainly de-link sitting with saints from getting a current dome badge. These Raja are certainly in the way of the dome meditation numbers in their linking sitting with saints with having a dome badge. The TM Rajas are clearly in the way of World Peace on this. It is that simple. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: And that's the reason you were admitted. They may want to punish you, with the programs you already learned, but didn't sign you off as a potential customer. It is true, there is an ambient aspect of fear there over 'place'. As I interview people folks do speak to that bad feeling of fear in the dome as a thing that gets pointed to as a reason by people who don't like meditating in the domes who are not going to the domes. It is a feeling. That there is an ambient fear in the place because of the essential culture of the movement administration for so long. The way people describe it, fear is like a marination in the meditation. That is sad and evidently an old problem as the dome numbers with the community show. The other evening, I was struck by noticing the hundreds of people there in the dome who have dome badges in defiance of the Rajas' anti-saint policy. At the Maharaja lecture which ostensibly was a 'badge-only' meeting, there are a lot of people who are much worse than I ever have been in seeing saints. The scale of it is laughable ironic except that it is sad. But there are just a whole lot of rank-and-file saint-seeing folks there meditating in the domes who like being there who could lose their dome badges in a moment over a whisper. There are national leaders of most all the saints in the dome there with current valid dome badges and a lot of saint-seeing meditators generally are on the Howard Settle Foundation assembly stipend getting paid to actually be in the dome. At $850 a month, that Settle foundation money is extremely important income for keeping many old-time old meditators living here too. Folks may risk their employment or housing otherwise too besides the dome badge having sat with saints. The TM-taliban Raja use of fear as punishment is a bad state of affair here that the TM-taliban have had with people's meditation. It's a bad energy there that is palpable.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
Yes, it is really quite incredible that these TM Rajas should even be going against Guru Dev's very certain spiritual advice to make use of our time on earth particularly by being with saints. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: The science is pretty compelling now that the TM Rajas are themselves in the way of World Peace with the dome numbers. *Maharishi Said*: Well, you see, it is like this. Absolutely everything is fixed, and absolutely everything can be changed at any time. (Maharishi - Squaw Valley, 1968 ) The TM Rajas chose to see it this way they do. They could also chose to do it differently. They could certainly de-link sitting with saints from getting a current dome badge. These Raja are certainly in the way of the dome meditation numbers in their linking sitting with saints with having a dome badge. The TM Rajas are clearly in the way of World Peace on this. It is that simple. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: And that's the reason you were admitted. They may want to punish you, with the programs you already learned, but didn't sign you off as a potential customer. It is true, there is an ambient aspect of fear there over 'place'. As I interview people folks do speak to that bad feeling of fear in the dome as a thing that gets pointed to as a reason by people who don't like meditating in the domes who are not going to the domes. It is a feeling. That there is an ambient fear in the place because of the essential culture of the movement administration for so long. The way people describe it, fear is like a marination in the meditation. That is sad and evidently an old problem as the dome numbers with the community show. The other evening, I was struck by noticing the hundreds of people there in the dome who have dome badges in defiance of the Rajas' anti-saint policy. At the Maharaja lecture which ostensibly was a 'badge-only' meeting, there are a lot of people who are much worse than I ever have been in seeing saints. The scale of it is laughable ironic except that it is sad. But there are just a whole lot of rank-and-file saint-seeing folks there meditating in the domes who like being there who could lose their dome badges in a moment over a whisper. There are national leaders of most all the saints in the dome there with current valid dome badges and a lot of saint-seeing meditators generally are on the Howard Settle Foundation assembly stipend getting paid to actually be in the dome. At $850 a month, that Settle foundation money is extremely important income for keeping many old-time old meditators living here too. Folks may risk their employment or housing otherwise too besides the dome badge having sat with saints. The TM-taliban Raja use of fear as punishment is a bad state of affair here that the TM-taliban have had with people's meditation. It's a bad energy there that is palpable.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: Ya see. Hypocrisy is one of my big things also.  One one hand, this forum is full of the most amazing people.  I am stunned over and over again.  It's hard for me to believe.  This forum is helping me.  Why?  How did they get here?  Is it because so many have been meditating, most/many doing TM? Many have been involved into TM, some still are, some left many years ago, but it played a big part in their lives once. It has left a mark, and that is why most are here.  Is it about global peace?  I want to drink whatever Koolaid ya'll are drinking. But...then there are videos like this, vouched by more than one.  I cannot hold both visions in my palm - I don't know why. The video is a kind of a satire. It is also true that these things happen, as Buck says, if people get wind you have been involved with going to saints. Maybe this is for you, you won't run into problems with the admin, maybe you will even get a grant for joining. There are a lot of things changed since I left, and there is a time for everything. There is a time for everything, and everybody has to make his own experiences, there is no way around it. Maybe if many new people join, there will come a different spirit, just like in this group. The situation depicted in this video, exists obviously, but it most probably does not relate to you, so why worry?  I can hold a lot of different fantasies in place, but not this one.  And, the way I'm feeling...I want to go straight to the Dome.  Maybe I can hook up with Oprah.  I'm not sure I would pass the test...I've seen Ammachi.  But, I *love* Ellen Degeneres.  Her endorsement alone is almost worth it.  Except, I will *not* sit around in the presence of a man in a golden crown and robe.  Please.  So, how to reconcile.  Don't think I can...but I'm about 20 years behind ya'll. From: Buck dhamiltony2k5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 9, 2011 8:40 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Zarzari786, I have just come through a long and arduous interview probing process in re-applying for a dome badge. Was it like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOPXgBflM8I (I heard this came out from this group, maybe even you? Very funny.) Zarzari, Accurate? Yep, well if the dome application investigators catch any wind that you've seen saints it could go like that. It is pretty accurate. I don't know who put this video together but it is quite good. Nope I didn't have nothing to do with that video. It is brilliant in its way too. -Buck Much of the consideration was around this client-centered vs. membership-cult as you frame it. It was very much around the difference between client practitioners and membership devotee types. It doesn't mean that clients couldn't be devotees. This is one of the biggest misunderstanings I think: devotion cannot be enforced. Devotion comes from the soul, and there are no role models for it. There is nothing like being a good boy, and then you are more devoted. That is a fair distinction within TM. On the one hand we got some more progressive people who tend to be more over in the Hagelin camp who would like to see it work out for practitioners, while on the other hand are the more strict preservationists around Bevan. Hagelin can easily represent the TM in a good way. I know quite a few people, who have nothing to do with TM, but like the way Hagelin talks. Bevan sounds like a cult leader. Nader is more or less not present. Some of these later conservatives are like the Taliban in that they are ruthless in their position. The progressives are more sympathetic towards working it out for practitioner-clients. Right now the Bevan-ista doctrinaire disciples have more power than the Hagelin-ites. -Buck Interesting. I think in many movements, when the leader dies, there is a tendency towards dogmatism, you can observe this everywhere. There is always a group of people who want to freeze the old ideals, and take control over it. Also, as you mentioned, you are not being told the reasons, or the way the discussion went, and the people who make the decisions about you stay anonymous, invisble to you. Something similar happens in other spritual movements as well, and is a sign of becoming more of a religious cult. Just read what Raja Emmanuel said to Joerg, it is typical of the frozen dogmatism of a cult. The TM can honestly only survive if the more liberal group wins, which I doubt at this moment. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Whoa. Why? What I said is deeply personal. It relates to me, my experiences. Anyway, I regularly meditate in groups, but not TM groups, mixed groups, who come together being empowered. But this is also something that happens. I once left big groups to come to a place where my heart is, but now there are groups there too. Now TM in my country is rather small - things change in an unpredictable way. The groups I once dreamed of, don't exist anymore, and I wouldn't want to join them anymore under the same conditions. I feel it becomes a trap after some time, but I still believe it is good for some time. I think it's part of becoming mature. I also like to go to 'spiritual' places of different dnominations, just recently to a sufi place, a hindu temple, and a jain temple, within an hour or so. I felt extremely empowered. But 'why'? Three things at least, 1. I live here and this is in my neighborhood, it effects me. Obviously. But you came there because of the group, right? Now there is a problem, you aren't allowed in anymore, at least not without constantly chanting 'mea culpa'? Is this a good situation? 2. I'd like to see them succeed for large and small reasons. Because you believe in their spiel, I don't. To clearly differentiate: I believe (and experienced) that group meditations can be very empowering - for the individual. This is true, but there are also other strategies to empower yourself, for example visiting holy places that are more open, that do not require to join a certain program, or behavioural codex. But I don't believe in the overall effect on the world at large. You can go to India and see the remains, in some cases ruins of old movements, go to the theosophic headquarter in Madras, go to Auroville,(btw the Matri Mandir is very powerfull) see those visionary projects. Mostly they have become refuges of single people, who still believe in this vision, or in some cases study them as a relict of the past times. And 3. How they behave affects a lot of my friends here. It is about that simple. -Buck I also have friends in the TM movement from the old times. I respect their dedication to the movement and Maharishi. I respect their devotional attitude, it is fundamental to me too, but I don't believe in the movement tschick anymore. The point for anybody is, go where your heart is. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: And that's the reason you were admitted. They may want to punish you, with the programs you already learned, but didn't sign you off as a potential customer. It is true, there is an ambient aspect of fear there over 'place'. As I interview people folks do speak to that bad feeling of fear in the dome as a thing that gets pointed to as a reason by people who don't like meditating in the domes who are not going to the domes. It is a feeling. Yes! Quite honest, - I am out of TM since a long time -, I wouldn't want to meditate there either. In my case it wouldn't be the fear, - I don't belong there any more -, it is more the restricted, 'cultic' mindset which I despise. The same would be true for meditating with any TMer today - of course it depends on the person and the situation. But, if some TM people would invite me to group meditation, thinking I am still one of them, I would definitely feel uneasy about it. If it would be anonymous, lets say in a train, it would be okay. That there is an ambient fear in the place because of the essential culture of the movement administration for so long. Yes, and it is also in the heads of the people there. They are proud to be TMers. They feel special about it. In addition, as you describe, there is an alienation of many people with the movement. Quite honestly, with all your desires for group program that I can surely understand, I don't see how you fit in there any more. You are already too much of a free spirit, just like myself, and many here. It would be hard to hang out with dogmatic types. The way people describe it, fear is like a marination in the meditation. That is sad and evidently an old problem as the dome numbers with the community show. That culture has been established there, it is ultimately Maharishi who defended it - the fear, citing the Upanishads. So, with people like Bevan on the top, how will this change? I can understand, that people, who have never been exposed to the internal workings of the movement, like Ophra, don't perceive it, and are enthusiastic about it, but if she would be in the movement longer, without special treatment, she would perceive it as well.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 hanumandaz@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: 2. I'd like to see them succeed for large and small reasons. Because you believe in their spiel, I don't. To follow up here: I do not only believe in their vison - I don't want it to be materialized in this way. To think that if enough people only do the 'correct' meditation - TM + Sidhis - will save the world is extremely arrogant. Why could not everyone do the meditation he likes? After I had a certain kundalini developement, my meditation was never the same again. I still remember receiving an advanced technique from Nandkishore, requiring to put your attention at a certain spot. I douldn't do it, as the shakti was moving in its own way, and my attention would be led to different spots automatically, in fact this was my meditation. Yet he insisted on the 'correct' technique. I never practised it. I automatically despise any techique that things its the cure all for everything, the salvation of the world as it is. Be that TM, Jehovas witness, Sri Aurobindo, Kalki, 2012 or whatever. This is not the way, and should never be the way. Amen.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Whoa. Why? But 'why'? Three things at least, 1. I live here and this is in my neighborhood, it effects me. 2. I'd like to see them succeed for large and small reasons. And 3. How they behave affects a lot of my friends here. It is about that simple. -Buck Nothing is as simple as not doing something. Don't see saints. Very simple, your problem solved.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Whoa. Why? But 'why'? Three things at least, 1. I live here and this is in my neighborhood, it effects me. 2. I'd like to see them succeed for large and small reasons. And 3. How they behave affects a lot of my friends here. It is about that simple. -Buck Nothing is as simple as not doing something. Don't see saints. Very simple, your problem solved. Except that *it* is become a communal problem because the Rajas link their anti-saint policy with meditating in the dome. Theirs is simply a bad corrosive policy for communal success with the dome numbers.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Whoa. Why? But 'why'? Three things at least, 1. I live here and this is in my neighborhood, it effects me. 2. I'd like to see them succeed for large and small reasons. And 3. How they behave affects a lot of my friends here. It is about that simple. -Buck Nothing is as simple as not doing something. Don't see saints. Very simple, your problem solved. Except that *it* is become a communal problem because the Rajas link their anti-saint policy with meditating in the dome. Theirs is simply a bad corrosive policy for communal success with the dome numbers. That their policy has bled the dome of numbers should be a concern of everyone here.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Whoa. Why? But 'why'? Three things at least, 1. I live here and this is in my neighborhood, it effects me. 2. I'd like to see them succeed for large and small reasons. And 3. How they behave affects a lot of my friends here. It is about that simple. -Buck Nothing is as simple as not doing something. Don't see saints. Very simple, your problem solved. Except that *it* is become a communal problem because the Rajas link their anti-saint policy with meditating in the dome. Theirs is simply a bad corrosive policy for communal success with the dome numbers. That their policy has bled the dome of numbers should be a concern of everyone here. Even the Fairfield Chamber of Commerce too really ought to step in a mediate the situation.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Whoa. Why? But 'why'? Three things at least, 1. I live here and this is in my neighborhood, it effects me. 2. I'd like to see them succeed for large and small reasons. And 3. How they behave affects a lot of my friends here. It is about that simple. -Buck Nothing is as simple as not doing something. Don't see saints. Very simple, your problem solved. Except that *it* is become a communal problem because the Rajas link their anti-saint policy with meditating in the dome. Theirs is simply a bad corrosive policy for communal success with the dome numbers. That their policy has bled the dome of numbers should be a concern of everyone here. Even the Fairfield Chamber of Commerce too really ought to step in a mediate the situation. Linking that old anti-saint policy with getting in to the group meditation has always been a long-term problem with getting sufficient numbers meditating in the domes.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Whoa. Why? But 'why'? Three things at least, 1. I live here and this is in my neighborhood, it effects me. 2. I'd like to see them succeed for large and small reasons. And 3. How they behave affects a lot of my friends here. It is about that simple. -Buck Nothing is as simple as not doing something. Don't see saints. Very simple, your problem solved. Except that *it* is become a communal problem because the Rajas link their anti-saint policy with meditating in the dome. Theirs is simply a bad corrosive policy for communal success with the dome numbers. That their policy has bled the dome of numbers should be a concern of everyone here. Even the Fairfield Chamber of Commerce too really ought to step in to mediate the situation. Linking that old anti-saint policy with getting in to the group meditation has always been a long-term problem with getting sufficient numbers meditating in the domes. It is more than past time to change it. It is time come to de-link the sitting with saints from meditating in the domes.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Whoa. Why? But 'why'? Three things at least, 1. I live here and this is in my neighborhood, it effects me. 2. I'd like to see them succeed for large and small reasons. And 3. How they behave affects a lot of my friends here. It is about that simple. -Buck Nothing is as simple as not doing something. Don't see saints. Very simple, your problem solved. Or, don't go to the domes. Problem solved.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Whoa. Why? But 'why'? Three things at least, 1. I live here and this is in my neighborhood, it effects me. 2. I'd like to see them succeed for large and small reasons. And 3. How they behave affects a lot of my friends here. It is about that simple. -Buck Nothing is as simple as not doing something. Don't see saints. Very simple, your problem solved. Except that *it* is become a communal problem because the Rajas link their anti-saint policy with meditating in the dome. Theirs is simply a bad corrosive policy for communal success with the dome numbers. That their policy has bled the dome of numbers should be a concern of everyone here. Even the Fairfield Chamber of Commerce too really ought to step in to mediate the situation. Linking that old anti-saint policy with getting in to the group meditation has always been a long-term problem with getting sufficient numbers meditating in the domes. It is more than past time to change it. It is time come to de-link the sitting with saints from meditating in the domes. Like, they even teach the little children in the Maharishi School to keep the company of wise people.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Whoa. Why? But 'why'? Three things at least, 1. I live here and this is in my neighborhood, it effects me. 2. I'd like to see them succeed for large and small reasons. And 3. How they behave affects a lot of my friends here. It is about that simple. -Buck Nothing is as simple as not doing something. Don't see saints. Very simple, your problem solved. Except that *it* is become a communal problem because the Rajas link their anti-saint policy with meditating in the dome. Theirs is simply a bad corrosive policy for communal success with the dome numbers. That their policy has bled the dome of numbers should be a concern of everyone here. Even the Fairfield Chamber of Commerce too really ought to step in to mediate the situation. Linking that old anti-saint policy with getting in to the group meditation has always been a long-term problem with getting sufficient numbers meditating in the domes. It is more than past time to change it. It is time come to de-link the sitting with saints from meditating in the domes. Like, they even teach the little children in the Maharishi School to keep the company of wise people. As has been said before, many times, Maharishi himself is the person who established this link between seeing other saints or teachers and being banned from TM courses and Domes and advanced programs. The Rajas did not think up this policy - it came straight from MMY and he enforced it his entire life - and they have decided to stick with the Master's policy. To change this, they will have to be honest about that and then make a decision that it is okay to modify what Maharishi himself set up. Not sure that will happen anytime soon. Not with Bevan around. Of course with Oprah interested and also seeing other saints and being very ecumenical indeed, that may push things a bit. THe Rajas could announce that in this day and age of rising enlightenment globally, it is okay to be more open and less restrictive. If they wanted to they could figure out how to change this.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Whoa. Why? But 'why'? Three things at least, 1. I live here and this is in my neighborhood, it effects me. 2. I'd like to see them succeed for large and small reasons. And 3. How they behave affects a lot of my friends here. It is about that simple. -Buck Nothing is as simple as not doing something. Don't see saints. Very simple, your problem solved. Except that *it* is become a communal problem because the Rajas link their anti-saint policy with meditating in the dome. Theirs is simply a bad corrosive policy for communal success with the dome numbers. That their policy has bled the dome of numbers should be a concern of everyone here. Even the Fairfield Chamber of Commerce too really ought to step in to mediate the situation. Linking that old anti-saint policy with getting in to the group meditation has always been a long-term problem with getting sufficient numbers meditating in the domes. It is more than past time to change it. It is time come to de-link the sitting with saints from meditating in the domes. Like, they even teach the little children in the Maharishi School to keep the company of wise people. As has been said before, many times, Maharishi himself is the person who established this link between seeing other saints or teachers and being banned from TM courses and Domes and advanced programs. The Rajas did not think up this policy - it came straight from MMY and he enforced it his entire life - and they have decided to stick with the Master's policy. To change this, they will have to be honest about that and then make a decision that it is okay to modify what Maharishi himself set up. Not sure that will happen anytime soon. Not with Bevan around. Of course with Oprah interested and also seeing other saints and being very ecumenical indeed, that may push things a bit. THe Rajas could announce that in this day and age of rising enlightenment globally, it is okay to be more open and less restrictive. If they wanted to they could figure out how to change this. Like Jeesus, even Guru Dev told people to sit with saints, mahatmas and the wise.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Whoa. Why? But 'why'? Three things at least, 1. I live here and this is in my neighborhood, it effects me. 2. I'd like to see them succeed for large and small reasons. And 3. How they behave affects a lot of my friends here. It is about that simple. -Buck Nothing is as simple as not doing something. Don't see saints. Very simple, your problem solved. Except that *it* is become a communal problem because the Rajas link their anti-saint policy with meditating in the dome. Theirs is simply a bad corrosive policy for communal success with the dome numbers. That their policy has bled the dome of numbers should be a concern of everyone here. Even the Fairfield Chamber of Commerce too really ought to step in to mediate the situation. Linking that old anti-saint policy with getting in to the group meditation has always been a long-term problem with getting sufficient numbers meditating in the domes. It is more than past time to change it. It is time come to de-link the sitting with saints from meditating in the domes. Like, they even teach the little children in the Maharishi School to keep the company of wise people. As has been said before, many times, Maharishi himself is the person who established this link between seeing other saints or teachers and being banned from TM courses and Domes and advanced programs. The Rajas did not think up this policy - it came straight from MMY and he enforced it his entire life - and they have decided to stick with the Master's policy. To change this, they will have to be honest about that and then make a decision that it is okay to modify what Maharishi himself set up. Not sure that will happen anytime soon. Not with Bevan around. Of course with Oprah interested and also seeing other saints and being very ecumenical indeed, that may push things a bit. THe Rajas could announce that in this day and age of rising enlightenment globally, it is okay to be more open and less restrictive. If they wanted to they could figure out how to change this. Like Jeesus, even Guru Dev told people to sit with saints, mahatmas and the wise. Any of us who know the TM initiation puja have done the puja to Guru Dev a whole lot more than to Maharishi. Even Maharishi would do it to the Guru Dev picture and say Jai Guru Dev!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Whoa. Why? But 'why'? Three things at least, 1. I live here and this is in my neighborhood, it effects me. 2. I'd like to see them succeed for large and small reasons. And 3. How they behave affects a lot of my friends here. It is about that simple. -Buck Nothing is as simple as not doing something. Don't see saints. Very simple, your problem solved. Except that *it* is become a communal problem because the Rajas link their anti-saint policy with meditating in the dome. Theirs is simply a bad corrosive policy for communal success with the dome numbers. That their policy has bled the dome of numbers should be a concern of everyone here. Even the Fairfield Chamber of Commerce too really ought to step in to mediate the situation. Linking that old anti-saint policy with getting in to the group meditation has always been a long-term problem with getting sufficient numbers meditating in the domes. It is more than past time to change it. It is time come to de-link the sitting with saints from meditating in the domes. Like, they even teach the little children in the Maharishi School to keep the company of wise people. As has been said before, many times, Maharishi himself is the person who established this link between seeing other saints or teachers and being banned from TM courses and Domes and advanced programs. The Rajas did not think up this policy - it came straight from MMY and he enforced it his entire life - and they have decided to stick with the Master's policy. To change this, they will have to be honest about that and then make a decision that it is okay to modify what Maharishi himself set up. Not sure that will happen anytime soon. Not with Bevan around. Of course with Oprah interested and also seeing other saints and being very ecumenical indeed, that may push things a bit. THe Rajas could announce that in this day and age of rising enlightenment globally, it is okay to be more open and less restrictive. If they wanted to they could figure out how to change this. Like Jeesus, even Guru Dev told people to sit with saints, mahatmas and the wise. Any of us who know the TM initiation puja have done the puja to Guru Dev a whole lot more than to Maharishi. Even Maharishi would do it to the Guru Dev picture and say Jai Guru Dev! It is time. It is time to put Guru Dev ahead of Maharihsi and go with Guru Dev on this communal problem with that anti-saint problem. It is time to de-link sitting with saints from meditating in the domes.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@... wrote: As has been said before, many times, Maharishi himself is the person who established this link between seeing other saints or teachers and being banned from TM courses and Domes and advanced programs. This is true and cannot be denied. But it is also true that Maharishi had several policies with this regard over the time, for example Muktananda was even invited to Seelisberg, he also send many people to see saints in the past, not just to Anandamayi Ma and Lakshmanjoo. And even when his policy hardened, he kept it still liberal at certain places, like in Lelystad, Holland, where he gave siddhas explicit permission to see Mother Meera for example, something that led to being banned in Skelmersdale at the same time. And it is also true, that he said, that a governor can do anything, he should just keep his mouth shut about it. And then finally the Rajas are okay if Sidhas go to the Dome who saw other saints, unless they are involved in organizing for them, and unless they are teachers (albeit even inactive ones).
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: It is time. It is time to put Guru Dev ahead of Maharihsi and go with Guru Dev on this communal problem with that anti-saint problem. It is time to de-link sitting with saints from meditating in the domes. Indeed it's time. It's time for to stop your neverending whining about a policy beyond your control, stop seeing saints and start going to your beloved Dome again.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Whoa. Why? But 'why'? Three things at least, 1. I live here and this is in my neighborhood, it effects me. 2. I'd like to see them succeed for large and small reasons. And 3. How they behave affects a lot of my friends here. It is about that simple. -Buck Nothing is as simple as not doing something. Don't see saints. Very simple, your problem solved. Except that *it* is become a communal problem because the Rajas link their anti-saint policy with meditating in the dome. Theirs is simply a bad corrosive policy for communal success with the dome numbers. That their policy has bled the dome of numbers should be a concern of everyone here. Even the Fairfield Chamber of Commerce too really ought to step in to mediate the situation. Linking that old anti-saint policy with getting in to the group meditation has always been a long-term problem with getting sufficient numbers meditating in the domes. It is more than past time to change it. It is time come to de-link the sitting with saints from meditating in the domes. Like, they even teach the little children in the Maharishi School to keep the company of wise people. As has been said before, many times, Maharishi himself is the person who established this link between seeing other saints or teachers and being banned from TM courses and Domes and advanced programs. The Rajas did not think up this policy - it came straight from MMY and he enforced it his entire life - and they have decided to stick with the Master's policy. To change this, they will have to be honest about that and then make a decision that it is okay to modify what Maharishi himself set up. Not sure that will happen anytime soon. Not with Bevan around. Of course with Oprah interested and also seeing other saints and being very ecumenical indeed, that may push things a bit. THe Rajas could announce that in this day and age of rising enlightenment globally, it is okay to be more open and less restrictive. If they wanted to they could figure out how to change this. Like Jeesus, even Guru Dev told people to sit with saints, mahatmas and the wise. Any of us who know the TM initiation puja have done the puja to Guru Dev a whole lot more than to Maharishi. Even Maharishi would do it to the Guru Dev picture and say Jai Guru Dev! It is time. It is time to put Guru Dev ahead of Maharihsi and go with Guru Dev on this communal problem with that anti-saint problem. It is time to de-link sitting with saints from meditating in the domes. I've done a lot of Pujas to Guru Dev in my life. I'm going with Guru Dev on this one over Maharishi. The hardcore taliban Maharishi Rajas are clearly in his pocket and going against Guru Dev about the sitting with saints. They are a problem here.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
I find the manner in which a number of people post here (referring to the form, not the content) quite irritating, but I rarely complain about it. Everyone's entitled to their own style. But Buck's Burma-Shave approach, in which he responds to his own posts over and over, quoting everything he's said each time and then adding a new line or two--often one post right after another with no time in between--is really beyond irritating. It's insulting because it's manipulative: he wants to force us to read every word he writes, and we might not do that if he put it all in a single post. But it wastes our time and wastes space. I read the posts on the Web site, but I should think those who get them by email would find this flooding of their inboxes particularly annoying. Buck, if you're afraid we're going to lose interest and not read to the end of a longer post, *make the post more compelling*. If it weren't for the fact that you do occasionally say something I find of interest, I'd start skipping all your posts. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Whoa. Why? But 'why'? Three things at least, 1. I live here and this is in my neighborhood, it effects me. 2. I'd like to see them succeed for large and small reasons. And 3. How they behave affects a lot of my friends here. It is about that simple. -Buck Nothing is as simple as not doing something. Don't see saints. Very simple, your problem solved. Except that *it* is become a communal problem because the Rajas link their anti-saint policy with meditating in the dome. Theirs is simply a bad corrosive policy for communal success with the dome numbers. That their policy has bled the dome of numbers should be a concern of everyone here. Even the Fairfield Chamber of Commerce too really ought to step in to mediate the situation. Linking that old anti-saint policy with getting in to the group meditation has always been a long-term problem with getting sufficient numbers meditating in the domes. It is more than past time to change it. It is time come to de-link the sitting with saints from meditating in the domes. Like, they even teach the little children in the Maharishi School to keep the company of wise people. As has been said before, many times, Maharishi himself is the person who established this link between seeing other saints or teachers and being banned from TM courses and Domes and advanced programs. The Rajas did not think up this policy - it came straight from MMY and he enforced it his entire life - and they have decided to stick with the Master's policy. To change this, they will have to be honest about that and then make a decision that it is okay to modify what Maharishi himself set up. Not sure that will happen anytime soon. Not with Bevan around. Of course with Oprah interested and also seeing other saints and being very ecumenical indeed, that may push things a bit. THe Rajas could announce that in this day and age of rising enlightenment globally, it is okay to be more open and less restrictive. If they wanted to they could figure out how to change this. Like Jeesus, even Guru Dev told people to sit with saints, mahatmas and the wise. Any of us who know the TM initiation puja have done the puja to Guru Dev a whole lot more than to Maharishi. Even Maharishi would do it to the Guru Dev picture and say Jai Guru Dev! It is time. It is time to put Guru Dev ahead of Maharihsi and go with Guru Dev on this communal problem with that anti-saint problem. It is time to de-link sitting with saints from meditating in the domes. I've done a lot of Pujas to Guru Dev in my life. I'm going with Guru Dev on this one over Maharishi. The hardcore taliban Maharishi Rajas are clearly in his pocket and going against Guru Dev about the sitting with saints. They are a problem here.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: I find the manner in which a number of people post here (referring to the form, not the content) quite irritating, but I rarely complain about it. Everyone's entitled to their own style. But Buck's Burma-Shave approach, in which he responds to his own posts over and over, quoting everything he's said each time and then adding a new line or two--often one post right after another with no time in between--is really beyond irritating. It's insulting because it's manipulative: he wants to force us to read every word he writes, and we might not do that if he put it all in a single post. How do you know what he *wants*? Maybe he does, but do you really know his intention? Maybe he just has a sort of creative stroke, so he posts one sentence after the other. But it wastes our time and wastes space. I read the posts on the Web site, but I should think those who get them by email would find this flooding of their inboxes particularly annoying. Maybe you are not as neutral on the topic, as you want it to look like. Compare this to your defense of Lawson at the time: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/241921 Lawson was notorious for shooting out TM defending one-liners, not always witty, sometimes seemingly witty (if you like, no so for everybody), here is the thread: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/135627 Now the group has a posting limit, to handle cases like this. Why not leave at that? Buck, if you're afraid we're going to lose interest and not read to the end of a longer post, *make the post more compelling*. If it weren't for the fact that you do occasionally say something I find of interest, I'd start skipping all your posts. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Whoa. Why? But 'why'? Three things at least, 1. I live here and this is in my neighborhood, it effects me. 2. I'd like to see them succeed for large and small reasons. And 3. How they behave affects a lot of my friends here. It is about that simple. -Buck Nothing is as simple as not doing something. Don't see saints. Very simple, your problem solved. Except that *it* is become a communal problem because the Rajas link their anti-saint policy with meditating in the dome. Theirs is simply a bad corrosive policy for communal success with the dome numbers. That their policy has bled the dome of numbers should be a concern of everyone here. Even the Fairfield Chamber of Commerce too really ought to step in to mediate the situation. Linking that old anti-saint policy with getting in to the group meditation has always been a long-term problem with getting sufficient numbers meditating in the domes. It is more than past time to change it. It is time come to de-link the sitting with saints from meditating in the domes. Like, they even teach the little children in the Maharishi School to keep the company of wise people. As has been said before, many times, Maharishi himself is the person who established this link between seeing other saints or teachers and being banned from TM courses and Domes and advanced programs. The Rajas did not think up this policy - it came straight from MMY and he enforced it his entire life - and they have decided to stick with the Master's policy. To change this, they will have to be honest about that and then make a decision that it is okay to modify what Maharishi himself set up. Not sure that will happen anytime soon. Not with Bevan around. Of course with Oprah interested and also seeing other saints and being very ecumenical indeed, that may push things a bit. THe Rajas could announce that in this day and age of rising enlightenment globally, it is okay to be more open and less restrictive. If they wanted to they could figure out how to change this. Like Jeesus, even Guru Dev told people to sit with saints, mahatmas and the wise. Any of us who know the TM initiation puja have done the puja to Guru Dev a
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
On Dec 10, 2011, at 4:09 PM, zarzari_786 wrote: How do you know what he *wants*? Maybe he does, but do you really know his intention? Maybe he just has a sort of creative stroke, so he posts one sentence after the other. In case you haven't noticed yet, that's one of Judy's MO's: she mind reads what people are doing - typically what she falsely believes people are thinking and/or doing - and then bases her (baseless) arguments on these (false) claims. It's one of the many ways Judy's dishonesty is very clever. Most people ignore it, but Curtis in particular used to call her on it, till he got sick of it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: I find the manner in which a number of people post here (referring to the form, not the content) quite irritating, but I rarely complain about it. Everyone's entitled to their own style. But Buck's Burma-Shave approach, in which he responds to his own posts over and over, quoting everything he's said each time and then adding a new line or two--often one post right after another with no time in between--is really beyond irritating. It's insulting because it's manipulative: he wants to force us to read every word he writes, and we might not do that if he put it all in a single post. How do you know what he *wants*? Maybe he does, but do you really know his intention? Maybe he just has a sort of creative stroke, so he posts one sentence after the other. Then he ought to start a post and save it in Notepad or whatever and add to it, not posting it until he finishes his train of thought. He's done this kind of thing before with Sanskrit phrases one at a time when there was no question of his having a creative stroke, since he was copying the phrases in order from a longer text. It looks like he's using the same technique here on his own posts. If he has something different in mind, he's more than welcome to explain it. But it wastes our time and wastes space. I read the posts on the Web site, but I should think those who get them by email would find this flooding of their inboxes particularly annoying. Maybe you are not as neutral on the topic, as you want it to look like. Compare this to your defense of Lawson at the time: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/241921 Lawson never did what I'm complaining about with Buck. Nice try, no cigar. And BTW, it isn't a matter of neutrality. I agree with a lot of what Buck says. I'd just like to be able to read it in one go. Lawson was notorious for shooting out TM defending one-liners, not always witty, sometimes seemingly witty (if you like, no so for everybody), here is the thread: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/135627 I have nothing against one-liners per se, as long as they contribute something, which Lawson's usually did. Sometimes they were witty, sometimes they were succinct statements of a specific point that would have taken me paragraphs to express. Now the group has a posting limit, to handle cases like this. Different cases. Why not leave at that? Because, as I said, it's annoying to have to click on post after post after post and scroll down to read one sentence in each post of what was really one longer post. Buck, if you're afraid we're going to lose interest and not read to the end of a longer post, *make the post more compelling*. If it weren't for the fact that you do occasionally say something I find of interest, I'd start skipping all your posts. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Whoa. Why? But 'why'? Three things at least, 1. I live here and this is in my neighborhood, it effects me. 2. I'd like to see them succeed for large and small reasons. And 3. How they behave affects a lot of my friends here. It is about that simple. -Buck Nothing is as simple as not doing something. Don't see saints. Very simple, your problem solved. Except that *it* is become a communal problem because the Rajas link their anti-saint policy with meditating in the dome. Theirs is simply a bad corrosive policy for communal success with the dome numbers. That their policy has bled the dome of numbers should be a concern of everyone here. Even the Fairfield Chamber of Commerce too really ought to step in to mediate the situation. Linking that old anti-saint policy with getting in to the group meditation has always been a long-term problem with getting sufficient numbers meditating in the domes. It is more than past time to change it. It is time come to de-link the sitting with saints from meditating in the domes. Like, they even
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Dec 10, 2011, at 4:09 PM, zarzari_786 wrote: How do you know what he *wants*? Maybe he does, but do you really know his intention? Maybe he just has a sort of creative stroke, so he posts one sentence after the other. In case you haven't noticed yet, that's one of Judy's MO's: she mind reads what people are doing - typically what she falsely believes people are thinking and/or doing - and then bases her (baseless) arguments on these (false) claims. It's one of the many ways Judy's dishonesty is very clever. Obviously if it's something I believe people are thinking and/or doing, it's not dishonest. It may be *mistaken*, but that's quite different. Most people ignore it, but Curtis in particular used to call her on it, till he got sick of it. What Curtis called me on was interpretations of what he said that didn't reflect his self-image. Vaj, on the other hand, calls me dishonest because I catch him in *deliberate* falsehoods all the time, and he has no other way to retaliate.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
I see they're at it again! How many have actually achieved even CC? One? or none!? TM works but please don't embellish it with hyperbole, enlightenment isn't something gained in a few years of regular meditation...and don't count on it to solve all of your problems! The devil is in the details and the details are it takes many, many years of meditation to achieve these purported benefits (more likely lifetimes). --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: Waht does the new course cost? AS an aside, this is rather amzing that a new course is being offered. they are expanidn gon the MMY's TM and siddhis -a new step. It could also be that they need the income from this course. I would love to see an official description of it and how it all works. Your info is always welcome, but I can't really figure out what this is all about from your description and the way you write. $85. Here is an intro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSMrAB4vV_c The Individual is Cosmic: Experience the Beautiful Electronic Model of Vedic Physiology --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Dear Turq, Yep, the thing that I heard that was interesting was the positioning of the 'Ved and Physiology' course, which is taught as a continuing education course, as a technique. It is a technique that is practiced like a guided meditation, a mindfulness meditative process that effectively clears and turns on the subtle energetic system. In presentation it blends sci-ency and vedic terminology. They don't use the term, 'chakra' but that is what they are working on. They are catching up to where so much of the meditating community has gone on to otherwise. To me this was interesting in the 'post-founder era' in that they can now proceed in a progressive way towards offering a teaching as developed spiritual technique. It is a blending of sciency and vedic TM nomenclature. As a course it has been piloted on campus here, at Vlodrop and movement facilities. Bevan at the lecture mentioned that over 200 have taken the course here. Taking the course features an electronic audio-visual gizmo which Nadaraam and Maharishi devised that leads the meditation through the physiology. It is good, it will ground a lot of people in their subtle system bodies and probably improve a lot of health in people who can be bright on their top registers but dull and not hardly embodied otherwise. It provides something spiritually that was missing for TM virgins that will be good. It is highly amusing that it is a mindfulness kind of process. It is the thing to take on campus right now. People are repeating it, taking it two and three times more, for the experiential component of meditating with the audio-visual guidance. FFL, -Buck in FF --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Sounds really good - glad you were able to go. Yep, I have to thank Raja John Hagelin for granting me an exemption to attend the meeting. It was very nice . Thank you for providing this information, Buck. I was going to ask how someone who was recently turned down for a dome pass got to attend. And I'm happy that you *got* to attend, if you found it valuable or meaningful. Really. But, that said, was there anything *in particular* he said that resonated with you? You are often WAY too vague on this forum. Just as I'd like to see King Tony deal with a real world audience for once, I'd like to see you get real with us for once and tell us what still gets you off about the TM dogma.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Dec 10, 2011, at 4:09 PM, zarzari_786 wrote: How do you know what he *wants*? Maybe he does, but do you really know his intention? Maybe he just has a sort of creative stroke, so he posts one sentence after the other. In case you haven't noticed yet, that's one of Judy's MO's: she mind reads what people are doing - typically what she falsely believes people are thinking and/or doing - and then bases her (baseless) arguments on these (false) claims. It's one of the many ways Judy's dishonesty is very clever. Obviously if it's something I believe people are thinking and/or doing, it's not dishonest. It may be *mistaken*, but that's quite different. Most people ignore it, but Curtis in particular used to call her on it, till he got sick of it. What Curtis called me on was interpretations of what he said that didn't reflect his self-image. If you do sunyama on the distinction between self-knowledge and your chosen spin self-image you might better understand Vaj's point. Vaj, on the other hand, calls me dishonest because I catch him in *deliberate* falsehoods all the time, and he has no other way to retaliate.
